The ways that the Game and women are counter-intuitive compared to real life.

[Ricky]

I thought it would be nice to discuss how the issue of interpersonal dealings with women and the game seem counter-intuitive compared to other areas of our lives. Please feel free to add yours

1) The maxim Chase two rabbits, end up with neither, doesn't seem to apply with women. While we shouldn't chase in a traditional sense, it does make sense to have at least two women and even more that we flirt with. Call it plates, call it options.. its important. I think it takes the pressure of compared to dating just one, it allows us to avoid the scarcity mindset and you get valuable feed back.

2) As an employee being reliable and predictable works well and can get you promoted, but with women being reliable, loyal and predictable doesn't always work well. I think its good to be a stand up guy that helps out when they need it, and being loyal and predictable are good qualities.. they don't tend to work with women. Women enjoy drama and hate boredom. A lot of the guys i know who have wives that stay at home and don't work.. they are terrible to their husbands and i believe its in part the need to stir up drama. A warning to not to be too nice.

3) Humor and being funny work but self deprecating humor, like the kind i used to love (Rodney Dangerfield), doesn't tend to work well with women. Instead its much better for the average looking guy to be a little c o c k y and funny, a little sarcastic towards others and maybe even mean spirited at times to a point.

4) Hard work leads to success, this tends to be true in work and business.. and it definitely pays to get yourself out there with women and meet a lot of them. However the days of when a woman is appreciative and loyal because you are a doctor or have a great job are over. If you want a great career by all means go for it, but do it for yourself. Your guarantee of the big house and picket fence may be there but the beautiful housewife that the American dream tries to sell you on may not be there.

5) The longer you know someone or work at a place, the more loyalty and stability you have, this unfortunately may no longer be true for workplaces, friendships and is certainly not true with romantic relationships. People can divorce after any length of marriage and sometimes it seems the resentments are harder to overcome the longer you are together. It's sad because my father worked at the same company his entire career after the military and also was married to the same woman. Nowadays none of these apply

6) Showing interest and giving them attention, this is truly a case where less is more. I've seen a few odd cases lately where women get hooked in by long distance simp behavior but it shouldn't theoretically last... even for cases where women are anxiously attached. To me we almost need to work on an individual basis to determine what an appropriate amount of time between communication is for a particular woman. Its a challenge to keep interest levels high in any relationship

Please feel free to add. I plan to revisit this thread, i realize a few of my concepts might have been a little redundant.. thinking out loud here.

 

[Travel memoir21]

I thought it would be nice to discuss how the issue of interpersonal dealings with women and the game seem counter-intuitive compared to other areas of our lives. Please feel free to add yours

1) The maxim Chase two rabbits, end up with neither, doesn't seem to apply with women. While we shouldn't chase in a traditional sense, it does make sense to have at least two women and even more that we flirt with. Call it plates, call it options.. its important. I think it takes the pressure of compared to dating just one, it allows us to avoid the scarcity mindset and you get valuable feed back.

2) As an employee being reliable and predictable works well and can get you promoted, but with women being reliable, loyal and predictable doesn't always work well. I think its good to be a stand up guy that helps out when they need it, and being loyal and predictable are good qualities.. they don't tend to work with women. Women enjoy drama and hate boredom. A lot of the guys i know who have wives that stay at home and don't work.. they are terrible to their husbands and i believe its in part the need to stir up drama. A warning to not to be too nice.

3) Humor and being funny work but self deprecating humor, like the kind i used to love (Rodney Dangerfield), doesn't tend to work well with women. Instead its much better for the average looking guy to be a little c o c k y and funny, a little sarcastic towards others and maybe even mean spirited at times to a point.

4) Hard work leads to success, this tends to be true in work and business.. and it definitely pays to get yourself out there with women and meet a lot of them. However the days of when a woman is appreciative and loyal because you are a doctor or have a great job are over. If you want a great career by all means go for it, but do it for yourself. Your guarantee of the big house and picket fence may be there but the beautiful housewife that the American dream tries to sell you on may not be there.

5) The longer you know someone or work at a place, the more loyalty and stability you have, this unfortunately may no longer be true for workplaces, friendships and is certainly not true with romantic relationships. People can divorce after any length of marriage and sometimes it seems the resentments are harder to overcome the longer you are together. It's sad because my father worked at the same company his entire career after the military and also was married to the same woman. Nowadays none of these apply

6) Showing interest and giving them attention, this is truly a case where less is more. I've seen a few odd cases lately where women get hooked in by long distance simp behavior but it shouldn't theoretically last... even for cases where women are anxiously attached. To me we almost need to work on an individual basis to determine what an appropriate amount of time between communication is for a particular woman. Its a challenge to keep interest levels high in any relationship

Please feel free to add. I plan to revisit this thread, i realize a few of my concepts might have been a little redundant.. thinking out loud here.

The problem with you is you’re talking about a typical feminist driven western woman who doesn’t have God as her number one priority in life.


You think the majority of those islamic women in the middle east treat their husbands like crap? How about a Filipina woman living in the province of the Philippines if you would expat there?

Stop chasing these modern ho bags and get yourself a traditional woman with God as her priority.

 

[Ricky]

Its interesting because i recently met a woman who is religious and got me praying again. I talked to her for a few months and became really interested in her.

she put the brakes on things because i am technically still married. She is a good woman

 

[Ricky]

Just noticed this one in a sosuave posted article


SoSuave Note: With most things in life, the harder you try, the harder you work, the more time and effort you put into something, the more likely you are to be successful.

Unfortunately, this doesn't work with women.

The more effort you put into trying to "win" a woman, the LESS likely you are to get her. Your energy and effort will make you seem desperate and undeserving.

Illogical, of course.

But this is dating, not engineering.

 

[Serenity]

Call it plates, call it options.. its important. I think it takes the pressure of compared to dating just one, it allows us to avoid the scarcity mindset and you get valuable feed back.

I have always seen this as a crutch. Yes, it works, but it is still attaching self-worth to the external. If I do not for whatever reason end up without options then I would fear not being good enough because I don't have options and thus have a hard time gaining options. If I do have options there's always going to be some part that fears losing the options, this fear might drive behaviors causing loss of options.

Point is that it's not really good to rely on it over gaining internal self-worth, not needing the options and still feel like you have all the options in the world.

Needing options in order to feel confident is still a type of scarcity.

6) Showing interest and giving them attention, this is truly a case where less is more. I've seen a few odd cases lately where women get hooked in by long distance simp behavior but it shouldn't theoretically last... even for cases where women are anxiously attached. To me we almost need to work on an individual basis to determine what an appropriate amount of time between communication is for a particular woman. Its a challenge to keep interest levels high in any relationship

Wrong focus. The focus should be on yourself, not on what shape you have to bend yourself into just to keep her around. That IS the problem, being driven by fear of loss, compromising oneself for her to give her more attention at the expense of what you personally should focus your attention on at any given time. On the other side is the unnatural overcompensation of holding back on communication, which often leads to holding back too hard, causing issues that way.

The only way is to not worry about whether she stays or leaves. You give her your full attention when you're available, you don't shuffle around all your plans for her, you don't drop something else that matters to you for her and you make her wait when you're busy doing the other stuff that should matter in your life. She's part of your life, but she isn't your entire life, she isn't ALL that matters to you.

I remember this one time I let a girl know I actually had other plans at a time she wanted to meet up, then I cleared my other plans to make it work anyways. Her interest level dropped noticably at that point, it was that specific experience that opened my eyes to this and made me really reflect on it. It makes sense, why would a woman want a man who gives up on his way so easily?

When I'm actually with someone I give them my FULL attention, I'm there for them specifically. When I'm off doing something else I give whatever else I'm doing my full attention, I don't sit around texting them, calling them and constantly showering them with attention. I can exchange a few messages once a day or something, just for a few minutes, but I have sh!t to do and can't be bothered chatting for hours on end. If they want to see me or I want to see them then it must fit into an open spot in my calendar, if none of the times in the near future works it'll have to wait until whenever it fits for me as well.

Anyways, my point is that if you focus on yourself first and have your priorities straight you can ignore this silly game of trying to bend yourself into a shape she might like. Women don't like when you easily bend yourself out of shape for her.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Employer-employee relationships are more rational and logical than romantic relationships. And there is a simple explanation for that. Employer-employee relationships are hierarchical. There is rarely any doubt who is in charge and who has more power. Employees are expected to follow certain protocols and rules. Good behaviour gets rewarded and bad behaviours gets penalized. At the end of the day, the employees' overarching role is keeping his employer happy or at least satisfied with his performance.

In contrast, modern romantic relationships are not hierarchical. There is no "boss" and no simple way to discipline your romantic partner without going with the nuclear option (breakup). There are no ironclad policies or rules, and no HR department.

 

[Ricky]

I have always seen this as a crutch. Yes, it works, but it is still attaching self-worth to the external. If I do not for whatever reason end up without options then I would fear not being good enough because I don't have options and thus have a hard time gaining options. If I do have options there's always going to be some part that fears losing the options, this fear might drive behaviors causing loss of options.

Point is that it's not really good to rely on it over gaining internal self-worth, not needing the options and still feel like you have all the options in the world.

Needing options in order to feel confident is still a type of scarcity.


Wrong focus. The focus should be on yourself, not on what shape you have to bend yourself into just to keep her around. That IS the problem, being driven by fear of loss, compromising oneself for her to give her more attention at the expense of what you personally should focus your attention on at any given time. On the other side is the unnatural overcompensation of holding back on communication, which often leads to holding back too hard, causing issues that way.

The only way is to not worry about whether she stays or leaves. You give her your full attention when you're available, you don't shuffle around all your plans for her, you don't drop something else that matters to you for her and you make her wait when you're busy doing the other stuff that should matter in your life. She's part of your life, but she isn't your entire life, she isn't ALL that matters to you.

I remember this one time I let a girl know I actually had other plans at a time she wanted to meet up, then I cleared my other plans to make it work anyways. Her interest level dropped noticably at that point, it was that specific experience that opened my eyes to this and made me really reflect on it. It makes sense, why would a woman want a man who gives up on his way so easily?

When I'm actually with someone I give them my FULL attention, I'm there for them specifically. When I'm off doing something else I give whatever else I'm doing my full attention, I don't sit around texting them, calling them and constantly showering them with attention. I can exchange a few messages once a day or something, just for a few minutes, but I have sh!t to do and can't be bothered chatting for hours on end. If they want to see me or I want to see them then it must fit into an open spot in my calendar, if none of the times in the near future works it'll have to wait until whenever it fits for me as well.

Anyways, my point is that if you focus on yourself first and have your priorities straight you can ignore this silly game of trying to bend yourself into a shape she might like. Women don't like when you easily bend yourself out of shape for her.

Excellent points! Thanks

 

[Serenity]

Excellent points! Thanks

There's also being reliable and predictable, there's nothing wrong with that, this is ultimately a desirable trait. You do however not have to be boring along with that.

The trap many guys walk into when they get into a relationship is that they have few desires in life beyond that, like they've reached their ultimate goal in life and just fall into this dull monotony of daily life. THAT is boring, it's not living.

Drama is of course negative, but it's more exciting than just nothing and when their man is such a drag on life, they have to take matters into their own hands to spice things up. What's better is to experience stuff together, that's what it should be about anyways even if you're by yourself, fvcking live life trying to experience what's out there.

This kinda also ties into point 5. If life is boring and monotonous it becomes more and more suffocating as time passes, or rather runs out as we're all gonna die some day and who doesn't want to get the most out of life? I think this is one of those resentments that keeps growing, eventually leading up to a divorce or break up down the line.

I've always planned stuff to do with my wife. Even now that we have two small kids we both make it somewhat of a priority to do stuff we want to do together, stuff that breaks up the monotony of the day to day hustle, stuff that creates memories, stuff that makes us feel good. I don't even do it to keep her, I enjoy it too because again, who the fvck doesn't want to feel like they live a life rich in experience?

Point 4, hard work does lead to success, but there's more ways to look at this than just career, I look at this with a MUCH wider lens. I have worked hard on myself to shape myself into the man I am today, I have put in hours upon hours of effort trying to understand as much as possible what it means to be a man and to live a good life. My life is far more enjoyable now than it has ever been in the past, I feel the rewards of all the hard work I've put into my own life. I do wonder how far I can go, how good I can make it.

What men do wrong here is put hard work into things that will never bear fruits, without taking a step back to find a better way to reach the goal. Working hard on a bad woman isn't going to turn her into a good woman for instance, the solution is to find another woman who's actually worth putting effort into, one who rewards it. Same with employers, if they don't reward hard work then working even harder isn't gonna do anything, the employer is the problem, find a better employer who has the sense to reward hard work.

 

[pipeman84]

I've always planned stuff to do with my wife. Even now that we have two small kids we both make it somewhat of a priority to do stuff we want to do together, stuff that breaks up the monotony of the day to day hustle, stuff that creates memories, stuff that makes us feel good. I don't even do it to keep her, I enjoy it too because again, who the fvck doesn't want to feel like they live a life rich in experience?

Can you give some examples?

 

[Sega Genesis]

Its interesting because i recently met a woman who is religious and got me praying again. I talked to her for a few months and became really interested in her.

she put the brakes on things because i am technically still married. She is a good woman

As a woman, I can definitely relate to this.

I also very much agree with @Serenity posts. I don't have the energy right now to expound on it, perhaps @BeExcellent can offer her always valuable insight.

 

[Rainman4707]

Just noticed this one in a sosuave posted article


SoSuave Note: With most things in life, the harder you try, the harder you work, the more time and effort you put into something, the more likely you are to be successful.

Unfortunately, this doesn't work with women.

The more effort you put into trying to "win" a woman, the LESS likely you are to get her. Your energy and effort will make you seem desperate and undeserving.

Illogical, of course.

But this is dating, not engineering.

Yes, but..have a think, what would life be like if there were no women? As the song goes..it's a mans world, but it would'nt be nothing, NOTHING without a woman.
Would men compete for the best jobs if there were no women? Most of what we do, could be to impress women.

You can still learn game, read books about relationships, Rational male etc.
The more you do approaches to women, the better you will get.

 

[RangerMIke]

I don't think any of this is counter intuitive.

First the person who is working harder to keep things going automatically occupies a sub-ordinate position. Think of it this way... I have seen managers and owners of companies that just bust their butts because employees are failing to perform at a sufficient level. This manager/owner is not respected by subordinates. Contrast this to the manager that demands employees to do their jobs, and seemingly sits back, doing nothing.... well subordinates will complain... but they do respect the manager.

Never chase relationships... again this puts you in a subordinate position... which automatically garners disrespect.

Most men do not know what 'funny' is... funny (amusing) puts people at ease and want to be around you. But if you have sarcastic, self-depreciating humor... it might be funny... but again, does not garner respect.

Familiarity bread contempt, not loyalty and stability. The longer someone hangs around in a position they do not like or does not serve them... bit by bit loses respect of those working with them.

Showing interest and giving attention again places you in a less respectful position.

You cannot have love if there is no respect.

Now I do agree that society and culture EXPECTS everything the OP posted... but women NEVER have. Truth is women behave like human beings, it is culture that wants men to be good little worker drones. The more freedom a society has, the less of an impact culture has on individual behavior. So the question is just how much freedom do you want to give a society in the interest civilization?