The True Alpha

[Nutz]

Saw this on another forum:

Went out last Saturday night for a couple of hours. Wasn't planning on doing anything, but my buddy calls me up at midnite, says he's headed downtown so I tell him to stop by.

He rolls in with his wife and another chick I hadn't met before.

I' pouring us some pregame drinks. My buddy is in the kitchen with me and sends me a text and tells me to check my phone.

"Kristen is our girlfriend"

Well high five brotha!

We move to the living room and he starts asking me about my new girl, who he has yet to meet. He is a show promoter and I tell him that she is looking to pick up some modeling gigs and that she knows some good contacts. I show him one of her modeling shots, and right in front of his wife and girlfriend he says "Damn! That's your woman? You got me beat times ten!"

That was kind of awkward, but I know the kind of guy he is and I know how chill his wife is, so neither woman batted an eye.

We hit a couple of bars and at the second stop his wife hits the restroom. He pins the girlfriend up against the bar and starts making out with her. Wife comes back and he starts kissing both of them. On the way to the third bar he's holding hands with both of them.

We head back to my place, and the girlfriend and I end up walking a few paces ahead of him and his wife. There was a little teasing banter going back and forth, something to the effect of my buddy teasing the girlfriend and her saying "I have my car..... I can just head home then"

I started whistling, joking that I was innocent and I had no idea that they were talking about sex. The girlfriend got a laugh out of that.

We get back to my place and the girls have another drink. My girl shows up and we all chat for awhile. My buddy is falling asleep on the couch. His wife wakes him up and tells him it's time to go. As he is getting up off of my couch, he belts out "So which one of you is giving me road head on the way home?"

If anyone wants the definition of alpha- there it is. He's a 27 year old show promoter who drives a Harley, emcees and DJ's soem of his own gigs, is sponsored by Budweiser, Jack Daniels, and Jagermeister. He primarily works locally but he travels all over the US for gigs. He recently told me the story of how his (new) wife drove an hour and a half during Bike Week just to **** him and drive back home. He was truly baffled as to why she would do this. I explained to him that she is conscious of his increased status and subconsciously knows that she has to live up to her wifely duties in order to keep him around, even if she still has to share him.

So there you have it. This is what PUA's spend hours trying to emulate.

If you can say to your wife and girlfriend (who are both cool with each other) "So which one of you is giving me road head on the way home?" with a completely straight face (and fully expect one or both of them to comply) you can officially call yourself an alpha.

Bad. Ass. The dude chose wisely getting married IMO. He screened for the type of woman he wanted and had the status and ability to find another woman to add to the mix that was a good match for their relationship. Props to him!

 

[squirrels]

To each his own, I guess.

Something about this story doesn't sit right with me. Not the "swinging" part of it, just the guy's attitude seems disrespectful and disgusting.

But if they're all happy, good for him. It's definitely an "alpha" attitude.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Qualification, projection and rampant white-knighting flame thread in 4, 3, 2,.....

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I read once somewhere that "if you hold a frame strong enough, people will follow you to the end of the earth."

This is an example.

Keep in mind that "the frame" is totally content independent. Charlie Manson held a strong frame, and people killed for him. Hitler held a strong frame, and a whole nation went psychotic for him. Jim Jones held a strong frame, and people killed themselves for him.

But so did Martin Luther King Jr., Ronald Reagan, and Winston Churchill, and perhaps the best example of "out-framing" the enemy, Gandhi.

A fictional example is Johnny Depp in Don Juan Demarco. He was loony and lived in a fantasy world, but due to his strong frame, women fell into it like butter.

Choose your frame well, hold it with all your mental might, and the world will filter itself for you.

Thanks for the post, OP. Very refreshing.

 

[Powerlifter]

In time his world will end and his wife will have his butt in court milking him for all that he is worth.

Powerlifter

 

[kingsam]

true alpha

http://images.travelpod.com/users/nat_yeo/africa-2005.1162810440.5x_silverback_1.jpg

 

[zekko]

To me the guy doesn't seem alpha at all, it's just a lifestyle choice. Open marriage, swinging, etc. He just surrounds himself with girls who are also into this lifestyle.

Similarly, a lot guys doing pickup in bars are just passing the same slvts back and forth between them. Some guys might find this impressive, but where's the challenge in bedding slvts? If a guy is just out to get laid, the best weapon he can have in his arsenal is being able to detect which girls are the slvts.

Is the guy banging slvts an alpha? Or is he just a guy who happens to be satisfied with low quality women? Same with this guy in the OP's story. I find nothing impressive about it.

 

[jophil28]

To me the guy doesn't seem alpha at all, it's just a lifestyle choice. Open marriage, swinging, etc. He just surrounds himself with girls who are also into this lifestyle.

Similarly, a lot guys doing pickup in bars are just passing the same slvts back and forth between them. Some guys might find this impressive, but where's the challenge in bedding slvts? If a guy is just out to get laid, the best weapon he can have in his arsenal is being able to detect which girls are the slvts.

Is the guy banging slvts an alpha? Or is he just a guy who happens to be satisfied with low quality women? Same with this guy in the OP's story. I find nothing impressive about it.

" ..guys in bars passing the same slvts back and forth.. " That's about the way it is.

If the threadstarter story is fact, (which I doubt) then Zekko's POV is the one .

 

[Drum&Bass]

I think his choice in work and how he decided to live his life is alpha...other guys think the way he controls women is what makes him alpha...

Some guys might find this impressive, but where's the challenge in bedding slvts? If a guy is just out to get laid, the best weapon he can have in his arsenal is being able to detect which girls are the slvts.

Im NOT into "THE CHALLENGE" I was never one of those guys that enjoyed "THE HUNT."

I like getting sex with women Im attracted to as EASILY and as QUICKLY as possible. Regardless if she is a slut or just really into me. I get enough challenges in life when it comes to more important things but women and sex I want easy.

Is the guy banging slvts an alpha? Or is he just a guy who happens to be satisfied with low quality women? Same with this guy in the OP's story. I find nothing impressive about it.

Whats a low quality woman ???

Nice/Classy girls are boring !!

 

[Nutz]

To me the guy doesn't seem alpha at all, it's just a lifestyle choice. Open marriage, swinging, etc. He just surrounds himself with girls who are also into this lifestyle.

Similarly, a lot guys doing pickup in bars are just passing the same slvts back and forth between them. Some guys might find this impressive, but where's the challenge in bedding slvts? If a guy is just out to get laid, the best weapon he can have in his arsenal is being able to detect which girls are the slvts.

Is the guy banging slvts an alpha? Or is he just a guy who happens to be satisfied with low quality women? Same with this guy in the OP's story. I find nothing impressive about it.

Your argument doesn't hold water as it's based on the false assumption logical fallacy that all women picked up from bars/clubs are "club slvts" or "low quality women".

 

[zekko]

Your argument doesn't hold water as it's based on the false assumption logical fallacy that all women picked up from bars/clubs are "club slvts" or "low quality women".

Sigh.
I didn't say all girls in bars are slvts. I said a LOT of the guys doing pickup are passing the same slvts back and forth.
This isn't directed at you Nutz, but I wish some of the guys around here would learn to read.

Drum&Bass, I don't fault anyone for wanting easy sex. I'm just saying pursuing easy sex doesn't make you alpha.
The easy girl will shag the beta while the alpha male is sleeping.

You have a point that if the guy is doing what he wants, living life on his terms, that is an alpha trait. But I don't think that alone makes anyone an alpha. It makes him a free thinker, perhaps.

This web site seems to define alpha males by whether or not they can get women. But the fact is, a true alpha male in nature is characterized by whether or not he can dominate, intimidate, or lead the other males around him.

 

[Powerlifter]

I have noticed whenever the term Alpha Male is used around here it gets alot of members goat. So with that said what the forum should concentrate on is Positive Masculinity and forget this term Alpha it's really non-sense and helps no one.

There should be a thread started Positive Masculinity Traits and The Qualities Women Admirer.

Just my two cents worth.

Peace

Powerlifter

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

But the fact is, a true alpha male in nature is characterized by whether or not he can dominate, intimidate, or lead the other males around him.

Absolutely correct. In nature, women are a result of being alpha, not a means to becoming alpha.

In "Chimpanzee Politics" Frans de Waal documented how the rise to alpha hood was first accomplished through domination of fellow males, and only then did they enjoy the subsequent sexual conquests. As if the females looked to all the other males for cues on whom to choose to mate with.

There were plenty of "non-alphas" who would run around and sleep with women on the side, but only when the alpha allowed it.

I would suggest that in human society, the true "alphas" are few and far between. Star athletes, rock stars, business leaders, and politicians.

A True "alpha" would be able to pull any woman as easily as skilled players pull bar slvts.

Somebody who could walk into any venue, and simply because he is who he is, men and women alike would step aside and acquiesce.

Somebody whose frame is imminently stronger than 99.999% of the people he encounters, and has been for several years, allowing him to achieve his position of wealth and status.

 

[Zarky]

Im NOT into "THE CHALLENGE" I was never one of those guys that enjoyed "THE HUNT."

I like getting sex with women Im attracted to as EASILY and as QUICKLY as possible. Regardless if she is a slut or just really into me. I get enough challenges in life when it comes to more important things but women and sex I want easy.

Wow, I feel exactly the same way. Those are words that could have come directly from my brain.

 

[squirrels]

To me the guy doesn't seem alpha at all, it's just a lifestyle choice. Open marriage, swinging, etc. He just surrounds himself with girls who are also into this lifestyle.

Similarly, a lot guys doing pickup in bars are just passing the same slvts back and forth between them. Some guys might find this impressive, but where's the challenge in bedding slvts? If a guy is just out to get laid, the best weapon he can have in his arsenal is being able to detect which girls are the slvts.

Is the guy banging slvts an alpha? Or is he just a guy who happens to be satisfied with low quality women? Same with this guy in the OP's story. I find nothing impressive about it.

LOL...reminds me of the Tupac song, "All About You".

Every other city we go...
every other video...
No matter where I go,
I see the same hoes!!

That's one of the things I noticed when I used to hop around the bars and clubs around here...no matter where I went, I would inevitably see the same girls over and over again.

But then, back in my "clubbing prime", the idea of going out on Friday/Saturday night and hooking up at random was kind of the "in-thing" to do. It was okay for girls to be a little slvtty. These were the days of when Britney and Paris were "gone wild" and that's what young up-and-coming women did for fun. As long as they insisted on protection, there was no problem.

I miss it. It may be the "maturation" of my age-group, but now what I see a lot more of is women who are more interested in "commitments" and "relationships" and every other word that kind of makes my stomach turn. I actually relished the idea MORE of finding a nice slvt that I got along with to turn into a girlfriend moreso than the idea of negotiating a "relationship contract" to sole-source my sex.

I actually think the "fun girls" may still be out there...I just need to get back to the college-bars and/or find where they "young-uns" are hanging out online.

What I've noticed is this: if you can get a woman to RELAX in a given setting, all of those slvtty instincts that they've repressed come flooding back. That's the essential problem of being a "DJ" in today's world...women are stressed the hell out and nervous about pretty much everything. They have all grown to think way too much.

But back to the OP...that's the same kind of impression I got...that this guy and his wife and their "girlfriend" are a certain type of person. Most people who "swing" are a little more discreet about it. If the guy was truly as "alpha" as he's being made out to be, I would think he'd be a little more discreet about it as well.

Rather, this seems like a lifestyle-thing. They said the guy does promos for H-D, so it could be a biker-thing. I could see a macho biker shouting to his "b!tch", something like, "Am I gettin' road-head on the way home?"

That's something I could never see myself even saying to a hooker. It disgusts me...not a jealous disgust, but I'm just grossed out by the lack of finesse.

But as I said, if that's his lifestyle, good on him for locking down two "fine" pieces of arse. :yes:

 

[TheHumanist]

I guess I should mention that Str8up was the one who wrote that post.

 

[iqqi]

It's great that he obviously has two chicks who are also into the swinging lifestyle (at least for now), however the way he speaks to and about his wife is pretty douchy. Maybe alpha in the fact that he speaks his mind, but what is so alpha about disrespecting someone, your wife no less? Those people remind me of redneck douchbags underneath it all. Him for being so disrespectful and tacky, and her for having no respect for herself and taking it.

The dumb@ss douchbag at the bar trying to fight everyone and being completely retarded could also be described as alpha. There is nothing suave about that kind of "alpha".

 

[zekko]

If a guy wants to bed easy women, so be it - that's his prerogative

I never said otherwise. If a guy wants to bed easy women, I don't have a problem with that. But I'm not going to be impressed by it either.

As for the guy in the story, yeah his wife reportedly permits him to have a GF. This does not necessarily make her "low quality" or unworthy, and it does not necessarily make him any less alpha.

And what I am saying is it doesn't necessarily make him any more alpha either. He's just a swinger dude hooked up with some swinger girls, doing his thing.

You'd be surprised how otherwise-scrupulous women will go out of their way to share a real man just to avoid losing him.

I keep reading this here. I'd like to see some real life examples.
I mean I know there are bigamist marriages where one guy is married to a bunch of women. But what about out in the more mainstream culture?

I know there are low self esteem women stuck in marriages or relationships with guys that cheat on them. At some point they usually get fed up with it. I personally would have a hard time having respect for a woman who would put herself in this sort of situation.

If a guy came on these forums and wanted some hottie to himself, but was forced to share him, he'd be called an AFC and mocked for putting up with her disrespect. And rightfully so. At best all she would be worth is as a fvck buddy. Same thing with a woman.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The reason that so many chumps get so bent about what defines an Alpha is usually because they don't fit that general definition very well. So it's a logical ego defense to make necessity a virtue (once again) and redefine it to better suit their own conditions. It's exactly the same dynamic as the debate over Looks vs. Game. Game takes priority for those without Looks and vice versa. A personal definition of "what's Alpha?" becomes whatever plays to an individual guy's strengths. Deductively it makes sense; we want to be the embodiment of what we 'know' is attractive to women and others.

The problem then is looking at the definition objectively. In an objective light it's difficult to look at ourselves as not measuring up to an Alpha ideal. So it becomes the first recourse to cast suspicion on the whole idea of being Alpha at all. It's a pissing contest between immature men then. Or is it? There is a LOT of observable and provable evidence that many so-called Alpha traits do in fact elicit desired, favorable behaviors (usually breeding precursors) in women.

So then the definition moves into an ambiguous moral ground; is it ethical to be / act Alpha? To be Alpha implies that you necessarily rise above a certain degree of common mediocrity - whether you do so like a guy from hotchickswithdouchebags.com or like a perfect "honorable" gentlemen is irrelevant, you still position yourself above "other guys". To some extent this is selfishness or implies a self-importance that questions moral tenets. I should also add here that women NEVER doubt themselves on moral grounds for outshining their own competition in the sexual market place - they just do so covertly and with a polite smile, unburdened by ethical doubts. Only men attempt to disqualify other men from the sexual marketplace with assaults another's honor, integrity or moral virtue.

And that brings us to the subjectively deductive end of defining Alpha. Every sexual competitor seeks to disqualify their rivals from breeding opportunities. Most animals fight for territory or harem rights. Humans generally do the same combat in the psychological. We seek to disqualify sexual competitors by calling into doubt the sexual credibility of a rival. "Yeah, he's really good looking, but that means he's probably gay" from a man, or "You think that blonde with the big boobs is hot? Girls who dress like that are usually sluts" from a woman are both psychological, sexually disqualifying forms of combat.

This also applies to the observably, provably, sexually successful male capable of OVERTLY flaunting his high sexual value with 2 concurrent women. He must be of low moral character to so flagrantly manipulate his wife and a girlfriend, right? His success, as a sexual competitor, conflicts with what a beta believes should constitute a beta-defined definition of Alpha-ness as it characterizes him personally. Ergo, the polygamist either must be disqualified as a sexual competitor based on subjective (moral) grounds, or the beta is forced to alter his own definition of Alphaness and therefore his own self-estimate.

Every guy has a Game. Everyone thinks they are Alpha in their own way. Even the worst doormat Nice Guy, hammered flat by women for a lifetime, thinks his supplications or Capn' Save-a-Ho mindset is the best way to win a woman's intimacy. He's invested in thinking he's unique in his understanding of how best to arrive at sex with a woman. Likewise, Alpha-ness is a moving target that's conveniently applied or disparaged based on personal circumstances.

Personally I believe Alpha-ness can, and does, have a concrete, objective definition. The problem arises when anyone asserts that they can definitively outline Alpha traits and it conflicts with the subjectiveness and ego-investments of those who define it personally for themselves. So we get a wide variety of what makes a man Alpha - he's the guy of high moral character, princely ambition and integrity, as well as the self-important cad banging his wife and "their" girlfriend. They are BOTH Alpha. Thus I would propose that objective Alpha-ness is NOT exclusive to social status or personal integrity, but rather an attitude of expressly manifested confidence. This can be innate or learned, but the definition is not dependent on moral grounds (or a lack of). A scoundrel and a champion can be equally Alpha or Beta in their psyche's.

 

[Warrior74]

Absolutely correct. In nature, women are a result of being alpha, not a means to becoming alpha.

In "Chimpanzee Politics" Frans de Waal documented how the rise to alpha hood was first accomplished through domination of fellow males, and only then did they enjoy the subsequent sexual conquests. As if the females looked to all the other males for cues on whom to choose to mate with.

Then the question becomes, are you a leader of men? How many men do you command respect and loyalty from? A "true alpha" who commands many men will also have to lookout for those men,partially by leaving them some women and not stepping over boundaries. Only when you rule by force like a Sultan with a harem or King David and Bathsheba can you do that. And even god punished King David. So is a gang leader alpha?

LOL I personally think that anyone talking about what is or isn't alpha is NOT alpha period. It's a stupid ideal, like being the perfect christian ext. It's putting other men on a pedestal which is kinda ghey. The point is to tighten up your game in every aspect and be the king of your own life.