The Secret To A Healthy Relationship

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Commando

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reset said:
True, but here we talk about being more of a self-actualized man. I think that biterness period is totally appopriate. How else is a guy supposed to react when he realizes that he believed a lie? Women told him one thing, he figured "ok I'll do what they say", then those same women tell him "I see you as a friend". So, he knows what's happening. He's opening up, being too emotional and sensitive, and what he thought the outcome would be, backfires.

So the natrual conclusion is, do more of what works, and less of what doesn't. And at first, it's going from one extreme to the next. Totally normal to go from afc to jerk.

Then, eventually (hopefully, this is the stage I'm at) the guy realizes there's really nothing to be "bitter" about. This is reality. It's nature. Women are attracted to guys who are masculine and who they can't figure out. That's just how it is. They are being women. It's natural. Nothing to be bitter about.

The bitterness, I think, is more of a self-hatred at being gullible. Once the guy learns to accept himself, he learns to operate in reality, and not be mad at women. He just has to do things differently, and the result of that is more rewarding relationships.
I liked everything you said. It is ashame that one must go through a tunnel of bitter or risk hurting other's to reclaim themselves (that is not cool). However, yes the self actualized man will reap a more high quality woman. Just as a self actualized woman will be more attractive to a high quality man. Not one playing others and spinning and all that other silly stuff.

Yes with time and with letting all of that "hate" go. One becomes more observant and discerning about people. The selection process becomes much more easy at this point, and as you said the relationships are more rewarding because both people are able to be their genuine selves with each other.

It is a process.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Lishy said:
The OP never mentioned discussing your weaknesses and fears ... He simply said COMMUNICATE!
Ah, but that's the rub now isn't it? WHAT you communicate is ever so much more important than that you do. You see, it's real easy to drop the Dr. Phil prognosis and say things like "just be yourself and the right ONE will come along eventually" or "open communication is essential to any relationship", but the problems arise in the practice. These are just simple truisms that sound like wisdom, and are supposed to be reassuring, but the funny thing is there are thousands of couples in marriage counseling right now who have no problem talking to one another - it's what they're talking about that's at issue. Obviously communication is an important facility in a relationship, but a guy can communicate all day long about how he'd like his spouse to put out more and it wont make her any more horny to do so. Communication isn't a means to an end, it's only a facilitator.

What men need to understand is that both sexes communicate differently, accept that and work with it instead of against it. In study after study it's been proven that women have a far greater, inborn capacity for language and communication than do men. While more than a few women like to wear this as a badge of some kind of superiority, it doesn't necessarily mean that what they communicate is more important, or how they communicate it is more efficient, just that they have a greater capacity to understand nuances of communication better than do men.

Men have a natural tendency to be OVERT in their communication. We say what we mean and we mean what we say. Our focus in communicating tends to be on the information or the content of what is being communicated. We prefer the deductive in our reasoning, but that's not to say we can't understand implied meanings - it's simply not what we default to in communications.

Women on the other hand opt for COVERT communication. Her focus is on the context of what is being communicated, the feeling implied with the message. And again that isn't to say the content is unimportant, but rather not the primary focus as a default.

This disconnect in communication preference is one of the primary reasons men and women become frustrated with each other. Women see men as simplistic and blunt whereas men see women as fickle, indecisive and at worst duplicitous when they don't get their implied meanings. we call them crazy.

Women are crazy, crazy like foxes. Covert communication frustrates us every bit as much as overt communication frustrates women. Our language has no art to it for them, that's why we seem dumb or simple at best. This is the same reason we think of feminine communication as being obfuscating, confusing, even random. The difference is that our confusion and frustration is put to their ultimate use. So long as women remain unknowable, random, irrational creatures that men can't hope to understand (but can always excuse), they can operate unhindered towards their goals. "Silly boy, you'll never understand women, just give up" is exactly the M.O. Once you accept this she's earned a lifetime of get-out-of-jail-free cards. The myth of the 'Feminine Mystique' is entirely dependent upon this covert communication.

Now as Men we'll say "Evil, immoral, manipulative woman! Shape up and do the right thing, saying one thing then doing another makes you a hypocrite!" and of course this is our rational nature overtly making itself heard and exposing a woman's covert communication. An appeal to morality, that'll get her, but,..it doesn't. This is because women instinctively know that their sexuality is their first, best agency, and covert communication is the best method to utilize it. The very fact that the truism of "just communicate and you'll have a good relationship" is a testament to this when men will parrot it back as some affirmation that they're on board with women's communicative style.

Have you ever been in a social setting, maybe a party or something, with a GF or even a woman you may be dating and seemingly out of the blue she says to you privately, "ooh, did you see the dirty look that b!tch just gave me?!" You were right their in her physical presence, saw the girl she was talking about, yet didn't register a thing. Women's natural preference for covert communication is recognizable by as early as 5 years old. They prefer to fight in the psychological, whereas boys fight in the physical. Within their own peer group, little girls fight for dominance with the threat of ostricization from the group. "I wont be your friend anymore if,.." is just as much a threat to a girl as "I'm gonna punch you in the face if,.." is to a boy. This dynamic becomes much more complex as girls enter puberty, adolescence and adulthood, yet they still use the same psychological mode of combat. Their covert way of communicating this using innuendo, body language, appearance, subcommunications, gestures, etc., conveys far more information than our overt, all on the table, way of communicating does. It may seem more efficient to us as Men, but our method doesn't serve the same purpose.

I'm fond of saying 'let a woman's imagination work for you', but this is really a reversal of what women have been doing for ages - covertly giving men just enough information to spark their imaginations. When an AFC vomits out his life's story all over the restaurant table on a first date, calls her incessantly to drone on for hours and then gets LJBFed, this is really little more than a conflict of communication methodologies. He wants to solve his problem of needing sex and does so by overtly blurting out as much information as he can to meet her approval - since he of course believes that women want complete disclosure and openess from the start (yet another fatal miscommunication). He can't help it. He's only using his natural deductive reasoning to solve his problem and coveys it overtly.

She on the other hand enjoys the communication more than the information being transferred. It's not a problem to be solved, it's the communication itself that's of primary importance. When our AFC supplies her with everything all at once she thinks, yeah, the mystery is gone, he's not a challenge anymore, why would she be interested? This is true, but the reason that intrigue is gone is because there's no more potential for stimulating that need for communication or her imagination.

Lastly I should add that women are not above using overt communication when it serves their purposes. When a woman comes out and says something in a fashion so as to leave no margin for misinterpretation, you can bet she's been pushed to that point out of either fear or sheer exasperation when her covert methods wont work. "Can we just be friends?" is a covert rejection, "Get away from me you creep!!" is an overt rejection. When a woman opts for the overt, rest assured, she's out of covert ideas. This is an easy example of this, but when a woman cries on you, screams at you, or issues an ultimatum to you she is powerless to the point of having to come over to your way of communicating.

Likewise, men can and do master the art of covert communications as well. Great politicians, military generals, businessmen, salesmen to be sure, and of course master PUAs all use covert communications to achieve their goals. It's incorrect to think of covert communication as dishonest or amoral, or even in a moral context. It's a means to an end, just as overt communication is a means to an end, and that end whether decided by men or women is what's ethical or unethical.
 

reset

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Rollo Tomassi said:
When an AFC vomits out his life's story all over the restaurant table on a first date, calls her incessantly to drone on for hours and then gets LJBFed, this is really little more than a conflict of communication methodologies. He wants to solve his problem of needing sex and does so by overtly blurting out as much information as he can to meet her approval - since he of course believes that women want complete disclosure and openess from the start (yet another fatal miscommunication). He can't help it. He's only using his natural deductive reasoning to solve his problem and coveys it overtly.
Yup. This is another topic I took for granted, that you need to "communicate (tm)". I don't know where THIS came from either, before my time. But I responded to it.
 

ketostix

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Lishy said:
It is so much better to talk about things rather than shout and scream and call names
Why do you think communication has to mean one extreme or the other? You seem to think it's a debate about either being open and about all your insecurities and fears, or shouting and screaming, and calling the woman names. Can't you see there's a middle ground as Joekerr has explained so well?
 

ketostix

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reset said:
This seems to be the theme, and I'm not posting about Lishy necessarily. They say they want one thing, yet who are they WITH? Guys who they can't figure out, and who push all their buttons.

Now, I once asked for female advice online, and I got "be yourself, tell her how you feel, don't hide what you're thinking, let her know how serious you are about her, etc." And this lady was great and supportive and very genuine and I appreciated that she seemed to care. But at the same time, she was completely obsessed and couldn't stop talking about a guy who would not return her calls, who she thought only wanted her for sex. Then she asked me why he was being so aloof. And I basically told her, the guy knows what he wants and he's doing his thing and it's driving you nuts.

So, lesson learned.
Bingo. Maybe women can't ever realize this phenomena, women say they want one thing but actually choose almost the exact opposite, but some of us guys can.
 

ketostix

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That was great stuff Rollo. One question I have is you seemed to suggest that men would be more succesful in communicating covertly with women than overtly. Or am I misreading that?
 

reset

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Yeah, they are not deliberately throwing you off-track. They mean what they are saying in that moment. They are absolutely trying to help, I think it comes from a good place.

But at the end of the day, actions speak louder than words. The simple fact is these women are not attracted to the qualities they are telling you to emulate. They are NOT with men who are like that, and if they are, soon they won't be.

So in the broader context of this thread, this could go to "communication" as well. If a woman telling you "what to do", in regards to a relationship she's not involved in, why would this work in a relationship she is IN WITH YOU?

Face it. As a guy, we have to figure it out for ourselves. We have to see what works in reality. Our job is to "be the rock" as Interceptor says.

Like Rollo is saying too, for men it's what works. We want to know what works. Not how it feels to talk about what may work. We want practical things. Girls aren't attracted to the qualites they say they want. So to follow their advice, is not practical, it doesn't work.
 

potato

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Magma said:
Are you a woman...?



...Or an AFC? Maybe you're just a New Age Sensitive Guy...



That's some bvllsh!t from "The Secret."

Read the rules for this forum too. We know you're a troll, but please just follow the (very few) rules we have here.
Why is it that everyone that post in this forum that says anything about treating women nicely and having any type of fulfilling relationship with a woman is either a troll or a woman?
 

Mr. Me

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Why is it that everyone that post in this forum that says anything about treating women nicely and having any type of fulfilling relationship with a woman is either a troll or a woman?
That's not true. Hey, why is it that women always globalize matters to include "everyone" and "anything" and "always"?
 

ketostix

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potato said:
Why is it that everyone that post in this forum that says anything about treating women nicely and having any type of fulfilling relationship with a woman is either a troll or a woman?
Because they always are that's why.
 

potato

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JackPrescott said:
The bullies fukk the Prom Queen. The Nice Guys jack off to the Playboy Channel.
No the cool guy got the Homecoming Queen, the Prom Queen, and that cute little girl that hung out behind the shop building smoking cigarettes. Dorks end up jacking off to the playboy channel. Nobody likes dorks, not even themselves. Oh, and that bully, well he wasn't all that tough after all, just another dork who thought that he was more than he was, bloody nose and all.
 

HOMBRE

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My parting shot

PK, we're all onto you now.

Stop with the emotional affairs on here. Does your H know you're PM'ing with single guys? Yeah, you're "helping". Puhleeze. Who are you fooling? We all figured it out really quickly.

Nice.

Buh Bye.
 

Burrito Supreme

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Too many different posts to respond to.

All I can tell you all is that I got into this relationship by being myself. I didn't put on any act, nor did I try and be a hardas$.

Over two years later and everything is still great. She is aware of what my weaknesses are and I am aware of what hers are and when those weaknesses are exposed, we have each others backs and we help each other through them.

I know that it may be just a little too much for some people (guys and girls) to admit that they have some imperfections. Keep that mentality up and see just how many healthy relationships that you accumulate.
 

LovelyLady

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http://www.google.com/search?q=hist...ox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBF

http://www.google.com/search?q=priv...ox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBF

Grandma's Chicken Noodle Soup

INGREDIENTS
2 1/2 cups wide egg noodles
1 teaspoon vegetable oil
12 cups chicken broth
1 1/2 tablespoons salt
1 teaspoon poultry seasoning
1 cup chopped celery
1 cup chopped onion
1/3 cup cornstarch
1/4 cup water
3 cups diced, cooked chicken meat


DIRECTIONS
Bring a large pot of lightly salted water to a boil. Add egg noodles and oil, and boil for 8 minutes, or until tender. Drain, and rinse under cool running water.
In a large saucepan or Dutch oven, combine broth, salt, and poultry seasoning. Bring to a boil. Stir in celery and onion. Reduce heat, cover, and simmer 15 minutes.
In a small bowl, mix cornstarch and water together until cornstarch is completely dissolved. Gradually add to soup, stirring constantly. Stir in noodles and chicken, and heat through.
 

Bible_Belt

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HOMBRE said:
PK, we're all onto you now.

Stop with the emotional affairs on here. Does your H know you're PM'ing with single guys? Yeah, you're "helping". Puhleeze. Who are you fooling? We all figured it out really quickly.

Nice.

Buh Bye.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1376492#post1376492
HOMBRE said:
I know I'll be banned. It's ok. Too much hate here for me.

Yes, you will be banned, very soon. Everything you post is utterly worthless garbage. You are a parasitic attention-wh0ring troll on the Internet, and probably a waste of good air even in real life. Obviously, it sucks to be you, but go suck somewhere else. You are stinking up our site. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
 

ketostix

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HOMBRE said:
PK, we're all onto you now.

Stop with the emotional affairs on here. Does your H know you're PM'ing with single guys? Yeah, you're "helping". Puhleeze. Who are you fooling? We all figured it out really quickly.

Nice.

Buh Bye.

Now we see you're caty too. It really irks you that at least one female here isn't like you, doesn't it? PK is a platonic friend to a lot of guys here. Most guys here like her attitude. See, guys on here really can be platonic friends with women, big shock to you huh? You on the other hand, I'll bet dollars to donuts would screw around on your H.
 
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