The real reason why females will always be at an advantage

[ketostix]

At all levels men have the advantage. the only sphere of advantage women have is in the area(s) in which men have forgone.

Men have the advantage in like what, in divorces and marriages, and child custody and child support, in false allegations (rape, domestic violence, etc.),deciding whether or not for an abortion, in the media, online dating and dating at work...What advantage where? Imagined ones don't count.

 

[Señor Fingers]

Some folks just don't get it

Ketostix, this isnt about being ignorant of the f*cked up things, its about being AWARE of EVERYTHING. Both men and women have advantages and to claim one has more over the other as fact is ignorant because that's a subjective opinion. What you say about women is true, but it's not the WHOLE TRUTH. It's tunnel-vision at its worst, and from a very weak POV at that.

We called you out on your initial argument that pvssy gives them all the power, so you cling to the legal argument of divorce. You don't even see how you are grasping at straws to reinforce this opinion of yours.

When you really think about it, your perspective is ironically feminine. It's women who are the expert complainers that rarely do anything about the circumstances which upset them. Men don't just whine about a problem, we either do our best to avoid the problem to begin with, or get up and DO something about it. They nag. We plan.

Not once in this thread have I seen you propose what you believe would be a viable solution. Instead you put all this energy into defending your defeatist take on the situation and consider anyone who doesn't share your comfortable little view to be ignorant macho men.

Well so be it. I'd rather err on the side of macho than subscribe to this weak, feminine philosophy which does absolutely nothing to make things better.

 

[ketostix]

Ketostix, this isnt about being ignorant of the f*cked up things, its about being AWARE of EVERYTHING. Both men and women have advantages and to claim one has more over the other as fact is ignorant because that's a subjective opinion. What you say about women is true, but it's not the WHOLE TRUTH. It's tunnel-vision at its worst, and from a very weak POV at that.

What advantage do men as a group have?

We called you out on your initial argument that pvssy gives them all the power, so you cling to the legal argument of divorce. You don't even see how you are grasping at straws to reinforce this opinion of yours.

I'm not grasping at straws lol. Every thread on this forunm just about exemplifies women asserting their advantages. I presented several things in this thread that were much more solid than "straws". No one has called anything out, unless you count debating over perception and who is getting pvssy or not as calling out.

When you really think about it, your perspective is ironically feminine. It's women who are the expert complainers that rarely do anything about the circumstances which upset them. Men don't just whine about a problem, we either do our best to avoid the problem to begin with, or get up and DO something about it. They nag. We plan.

Avoiding a problem doesn't solve it and neither does working around lol. I partially agree that's a females tacting to whine and complain. Bu it's also no less a manly thing to state a case and get other onboard and then there can be action.

Not once in this thread have I seen you propose what you believe would be a viable solution. Instead you put all this energy into defending your defeatist take on the situation and consider anyone who doesn't share your comfortable little view to be ignorant macho men.

Lol, I stated my solution from the very beginning, Women should not have the same economic advantages as men. I never said it was a practical solution.

Well so be it. I'd rather err on the side of macho than subscribe to this weak, feminine philosophy which does absolutely nothing to make things better.

OK, dude believe your macho and remain oblivious while women continue to take all the advantages away. Like I said before that mentality just plays right into the feminist hands.

To be honest I don't know why you 're arguing so strongly against me. You think I don't know a man has to be pratical and do whatever he can to personally get ahead? It's like you are already pre-shamed by women to never even "privately" admit that they have gotten out of their proper place.

 

[Jitterbug]

What advantage do men as a group have?

Our values don't depreciate rapidly after we enter our 30s. In most cases, we go up in values. Time is on our side.

Most are angry, bitter, and frustrated sexually and emotionally, because real men are even more rare and valued commodity than poon.

Aren't real women rare too? Real men are rare, for sure, but I've met or heard about (like on SoSuave) more of them than real women.

 

[Señor Fingers]

Aren't real women rare too? Real men are rare, for sure, but I've met or heard about (like on SoSuave) more of them than real women.

They are totally rare. But all that shows is that there are advantages and disadvantages to both sides of the fence.

@ ketostix,

I hear what you're saying dog, I really do. But your message doesn't exactly inspire action. .. I mean just look at this sad thread title. It's basically saying there is no hope and we should not even bother trying to get ahead of the game because it will NEVER work in our favor. How is this productive at all?

Really think about the words you use. If you are honestly serious about inspiring change, you should be posting how we can overcome these obtacles or at least pointing out specific pitfalls to avoid.

Ultimately I see much more value in pragmatic solutions then simply despairing about a problem in the hopes that the next man will provide the insight you lack.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Men have the advantage in like what, in divorces and marriages, and child custody and child support, in false allegations (rape, domestic violence, etc.),deciding whether or not for an abortion, in the media, online dating and dating at work...What advantage where? Imagined ones don't count.

Your refutation proved my point. Men control the courts, the media, hospitals, educational institutions, business, all governments, police, military -- women control nothing!

 

[Nelford]

I see you repeating that old argument one a lot of guys make and even women will use against a guy if he says women have too many advantages. Let me ask you this, Do you think for one minute that when feminst were complaining and banging away at men, any other females ever said something like that to these women? How many women ever criticise other women even now? How many do it on this forum. Does iqqi or any one else? That's right they never do. Women complain and attack men to get their way.

See that's why men are at a disadvantage (I realize your stance is that a disadvantage doesn't exist if you just ignore it), they have no unity and too much, I don't know silly macho pride I guess. But let me point out one more thing, reality is reality regardless of perception.

Yup watch one of those talk shows where a women has got cheated on and the man is the bad person, then when there is a man on there in the same situation, the women will say it's the man's fault. It's crazy

 

[Señor Fingers]

Fingers!!!

Your post from a long time ago has helped me tremendously realize how powerful I really am!

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48336

Take back your power.

Yo Plastic.. YOUR WELCOME for that and THANK YOU for posting this. I was searching for the dang thread but search function is not working for me. I KNEW I'd written something more comprehensive on the topic.

It's interesting to see how, years later, people are hitting the same walls they once did. For the record, I don't think ketostix is totally clueless.. I see him post decent stuff and his intentions are good, but this is one point of view I strongly disagree with (as you can see from that thread)

Yup watch one of those talk shows where a women has got cheated on and the man is the bad person, then when there is a man on there in the same situation, the women will say it's the man's fault. It's crazy

This is exactly my point right here

WHAT are guys doing watching this garbage?



I remember my sister used to be into this tele-trash and as soon as she would turn it on, I'd go outside and play with my friends, or go read a book.

I really don't understand dudes that can sit through daytime TV or any of this chick drivel. Your weak mindset is your own damn fault!

PS - Dont take it personal Nelford, my post is not directed at you in particular since you may have just seen this crap in passing, but I know tons of guys who are hooked like bored housewives on Oprah and friends. All I can say on their behalf is

 

[ketostix]

They are totally rare. But all that shows is that there are advantages and disadvantages to both sides of the fence.

@ ketostix,

I hear what you're saying dog, I really do. But your message doesn't exactly inspire action. .. I mean just look at this sad thread title. It's basically saying there is no hope and we should not even bother trying to get ahead of the game because it will NEVER work in our favor. How is this productive at all?

Really think about the words you use. If you are honestly serious about inspiring change, you should be posting how we can overcome these obtacles or at least pointing out specific pitfalls to avoid.

Ultimately I see much more value in pragmatic solutions then simply despairing about a problem in the hopes that the next man will provide the insight you lack.

No, I hear what you're saying but still you're taking an extreme interpretation of my thread. I never said it was hopeless, I only said women have the advantage. As far as me not inspiring anyone, they only need their own desires to inspire them. Anyway, I feel I was inspiring something, to not accept beliefs and policies that put women at an advantage. Isn't that what we do a lot here anyway? I never bought into that happy, feel good argument that any disadvantage a person has is only imagined. Sometimes some of it is imagined but some of it is real. And if you want a "problem" to go away ignoring it doesn't actually make it go away.

 

[Señor Fingers]

I never bought into that happy, feel good argument that any disadvantage a person has is only imagined.

No one is asking you to turn a blind eye here, so let go of your defenses and you see that it's not the disadvantage that's imagined, it's the POWER of it that we create in our minds.

Everything you say is true. Society is fuct up.. a lot of women (and men) have a terrible sense of entitlement which makes the game frustrating.

The bottom line is that we all have strengths and weaknesses but it's ultimately YOU who has the power to decide what your motivation is. Against this realization, no external force can really prevail.

In your case you choose to focus on belittling your own gender with ideas that women ALWAYS have the advantage. These are YOUR words! Read them carefully because they say a lot about how you see yourself and deal with situations.

You are giving your power away on a silver platter when you say these things. In a sense its terribly ironic how you accuse folks like myself for being "blindly optimistic" when you refuse to see the big picture yourself.

Women don't ALWAYS have the advantage. Niether do men. The balance of power is always fluctuating in time with the rhythm of life itself. To speak in extremes is to speak the language of death, for there is only one static possibility in a view so rigid and rife with defeat.

 

[joekerr31]

i haven't read all the replies in this post, but thought id chime in anyway.

the subject title needs an amendment "the real reason why HOT females will always be at an advantage.'

i can tell you this much, i see TONS of women who have no advantage what so ever. just go to walmart and look at the cashiers, trust me, they do NOT have the advantage.

we are so quick to cast an entire group of peopel into a simple stereotype.

heres how i see it...

HOT women do have an advantage. so do RICH people. so do people who come from good upbringings. so do people who are very intelligent. so do people who simply happen to know the right people.

reality is about 10-20% of the society just got lucky. either with looks, or knowing the righ tpeople, or being born into money, or whatever.

the other 80% of us work out fingers to the bone just to make a living. and that 80% includes both men and women.

unless you win the lottery, life is tough, whether you are a man, woman, white, black, etc.

your odds of getting a free ride do go up if you are hot or born into money. but not many people are.

 

[ketostix]

the subject title needs an amendment "the real reason why HOT females will always be at an advantage.'

OK joekerr, and thanks for pointing out to everyone what I thought would be understood by everyone else. I agree with your post mostly but what I was saying was all things being equal (not even equal really but more like an average looking girl vs. an attractive guy) women have the advantage in "dating". I thought people understood that, all things being equal, without saying. I mean I thought it was common sense you wouldn't compare a dunce warpig to a Brad Pitt-looking Harvard grad. And my second argument was it is now easier for a woman (all things being equal) to get ahead economically than a man. Yes, I'm making that claim, and there's no way you're going to convince me otherwise that this isn't generally true (so no one bother pulling out erroneous feminist statistics). Women didn't use to have equal or greater economic advantage. Now they have both advantages. That's my argument.

I don't think I'm going to discuss this anymore. Most people have their minds made up and either see it or don't see it. And Fingers you like to write a lot of Polyanna type posts, and what your doing here is creating straw man arguments to attack.

 

[ketostix]

It's so simple. Men choose. Women get chosen. What would you rather do, wait around for someone to choose you or take initiative yourself?

With all due respect, women choose too. There's nothing stopping a woman from taking initiative. The only difference is whther she takes initiative or not she'll have a higher succes rate either way.

Approach is our power as men.

The approacher is always at a relative disadvantage in the interaction. If anything it's a duty more than a power.

Why do you think women give so many IOI's? For a real man to intiate (approach). Because they just cannot! In that respect they are powerless and they know it.

Well see a woman only chooses to give IOI's if she chooses the guy and wants to give IOIs. Most of the time that's all she has to do is give IOIs and not even aproach. A lot of the time she doesn't really have to even do that. And what happens after a guy approaches? Then he goes into a sales pitch, then he goes for the close- #close, or what have you. That sounds like work more than power to me. I'm not even going to get into that man is more likjely to be ****blocked or have his rep tarnished by female slander and gossip-of course this can go the other way too and be postive, but it's still dependent on women to some extent. Power would be a rock star surrounded by groupies, and not the average guy appraoching women.


Look, I believe men are more powerful than women. But women have usurped most of men's power and men have let them, and actually most men won't even admit it even happened.

 

[STR8UP]

The approacher is always at a relative disadvantage in the interaction. If anything it's a duty more than a power.

I agree with this to a point.

It is sort of a "duty" and also a "burden" for those of us who aren't the uber social types to begin with.

But it must suck to be a woman when you see a guy you like you are "allowed" to only do certain things such as a little eye contact (but not too much!), maybe put herself in our vicinity, smile, etc., but if the guy doesn't catch it and run with it, she can't really chase him down and chat him up.

I see this quite a bit in clubs. You catch a couple of women looking at you, then next thing you know they are dancing three feet away from you. they will usually stay for about 5 minutes, sometimes casually looking over their shoulders to see if you are still there, and if you don't move in they are GONE and the opportunity is lost.

 

[ketostix]

I agree with this to a point.

It is sort of a "duty" and also a "burden" for those of us who aren't the uber social types to begin with.

But it must suck to be a woman when you see a guy you like you are "allowed" to only do certain things such as a little eye contact (but not too much!), maybe put herself in our vicinity, smile, etc., but if the guy doesn't catch it and run with it, she can't really chase him down and chat him up.

I see this quite a bit in clubs. You catch a couple of women looking at you, then next thing you know they are dancing three feet away from you. they will usually stay for about 5 minutes, sometimes casually looking over their shoulders to see if you are still there, and if you don't move in they are GONE and the opportunity is lost.

No I agree with what you're saying but with reservations. And granted it's not an utopian for women but it's more of one for them than for men on average. See the things is first off I wouldn't ssume men are more social and outgoing on average than women. Plus if anything men are stygmatized more for appoaching than women (the culture of every man's a potential xyz just for being born male).

OK, granted not every single man that might catch a woman's eye and she gives IOIs too is going to be outgoing or bold enough to approach her. But is that really a loss to her and more than it is to the man? If he doesn't approach at the right time, she'll just conclude that "he's not a real man" and quickly lose interest, only to be approach by 5 other guys that night.

Now what if she did send IOI's and he did approach her? Is that enough? No, she'll expect him to deliver a winning sales performance plus close. If he fails at any of those steps then we're back to her quickly losing attraction and concluding "he's not a real man" and her choose from the other 5 guys (that she never had to approach).

All the above assumed she wasn't just AW'ing in the first place. Her IOI's, eye contact, and lingering nearby might have meant nothing really other than a maneuver for attention. This is common.

On top of all this, women tend to roll in groups and "date" by "introduction" through the social network. It just seems easier for women to be in a social network than men.

Last of all, I don't buy the argument that a woman couldn't aproach a guy they are interested in in the first place. They can and do if they want to. And if anything that have a higher succes rate and it's less stigmatized (every guy is a pontential xyz).

Now someone might say that women get approached by all these losers. Well I don't buy that really and it seems to be a small cost for having all the other advantages that I laid out. For one thing why conclude these guys are losers? How many losers are going to aproach a cold girl and keep plowing through her ice sheild really? He's going to be ****blocked by her friend and shut down fast. Women are very skilled at shutting guys down and just walking away. They're more skilled at that than turning a guy on probably lol.

For these reasons I see being the designated approacher a duty not an advantage.

 

[ketostix]

I think ketostix is right. He took the red pill on this one. Guys don't want to face the reality, because it's depressing. But they're living in the matrix. No other way to explain the pvzzy-whipped fools I see walking around every day, who will let their wife walk all over them, disrespect them, spend all their money on garbage, and they say she is their best friend.

I like the way you put it.

Morpheus: "Remember, all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more."

That's exactly what I'm trying to do and nothing else!

 

[Jitterbug]

The side with the advantage doesn't always have victory in the bag, you know.

Besides, nobody forces you to get into dating, relationship or marriage with women. If you truly don't give a toss about that, they have no power nor advantage over you. Most great men in history aren't immortalized because they were great with women. So what if women have an advantage over us in dating? They're only a part of our lives, not our entire lives. I think what you're saying is the truth, but it just happens to be blown way out of proportion.

 

[Tazman]

They only have the advantage because men are willing to do almost anything to obtain them, even changing their personality to suit or accomodate them.
It really irritates me when a friend of mine "changes" the way he acts, it makes him look like a fool, but they feel the need to conform.

When you aren't into activities that women enjoy you are labeled a "nerd", but people don't see this for the power move that it is. People don't realize we wouldn't be enjoying all these modern luxuries (and many more advances in knowledge) if it weren't for these "nerds".

That's why I have a lot of respect for guys that are in relationships where they are in control of themselves, not the ones who always talk about doing this or not doing that because it'll upset the wife "then I won't get any p-ssy".

I know a guy from work who talked about his relationship with his now wife and how he treats her vice versa. I was actually proud of the guy, he made it sound like she was a very feminine, giving woman and he was able to maintain his role as the head of the house.

lol, then I actually saw how he behaved in front of his wife and it was the total opposite. She gets extremely pissed off if she sees him even glance at another woman (like not talk to him for the rest of the day). He caters to her like she's a f-cking queen or something. All I could do was laugh, it became quite obvious all the stuff he told me was a lie.

 

[ketostix]

The side with the advantage doesn't always have victory in the bag, you know.

Besides, nobody forces you to get into dating, relationship or marriage with women. If you truly don't give a toss about that, they have no power nor advantage over you. Most great men in history aren't immortalized because they were great with women. So what if women have an advantage over us in dating? They're only a part of our lives, not our entire lives. I think what you're saying is the truth, but it just happens to be blown way out of proportion.

OK fine but you're not going to really void a disadvantage by ignoring it and avoiding it. No one forces you into dating women except maybe biology. I was never talking about becoming immortalized in history. I assume you were just trying to make a point. I don't see how I'm blowing anything out of porportion. And like I said before, women have their fingers in economics. You're not going to escape women's influence even if you did choose to avoid women. Like I said before, if a woman said "men suck" not one woman would disagree with her. So I'm not getting why guys are so oppossed to what I'm saying. If that doesn't illustrate why women have it easy, I don't know what does.

 

[ketostix]

That's why I have a lot of respect for guys that are in relationships where they are in control of themselves, not the ones who always talk about doing this or not doing that because it'll upset the wife "then I won't get any p-ssy".

I know a guy from work who talked about his relationship with his now wife and how he treats her vice versa. I was actually proud of the guy, he made it sound like she was a very feminine, giving woman and he was able to maintain his role as the head of the house.

lol, then I actually saw how he behaved in front of his wife and it was the total opposite. She gets extremely pissed off if she sees him even glance at another woman (like not talk to him for the rest of the day). He caters to her like she's a f-cking queen or something. All I could do was laugh, it became quite obvious all the stuff he told me was a lie.

LOL, it's not really funny but kind of is. Is there any women and men in a relationship where she actually is feminine and doesn't run things? This is the outcome of what I was getting at. Is it even possible now or should I say probable for male to have a relationship with a female that's outside of the "matrix"? Maybe this is why most of my encounters turn out to be ONS or STR and the girl settle for the "AFC".