The problem with "choosing signals"

[Mike32ct]

1. the lower your SMV, the fewer of these "choosing signals" you will get. Therefore, average to below average looking guys will be waiting inordinately long periods in between "choosing signals"

Agree with everything you said.

I would also add that, for guys lower on the SMV scale, even if they got choosing signals, the signals would likely be WEAKER and easier to miss.

It might just appear that she’s being friendly. Then the guy misses one of his rare opportunities because he waits to “stack more evidence” that she’s interested. By then, she gives up and friendzones him.

 

[spred]

If it were that simple more men would be succesful at it. 30 out of 32 men miss these covert signals studies have shown. Theres a ton of room for improvement.

My point was to avoid low interest women who give few short signals, and go for the high interest ones.

 

[SW15]

I've never lived in a city where hot girls who were 18-22ish went out solo.

You said that you have not been much of a day game guy. I have been more day game than night game in the past decade. One of the big advantages of doing approaches in a non-bar setting is easier isolation. A woman at the grocery store or on an outdoor walking path is more likely to be isolated than a woman at the bar.

I roll with naturals all the time--guys that get laid plenty but who rely on waiting for choosing signals. I'm fvcking hotter girls.

Approach the girls YOU want--and let the chips fall wherever.

"Talking to my friends" is her frame. "Taking her home" is mine. Strongest frame wins.

I would say that my 6'4" ex college athlete friend is the closest to a natural I've seen. His frame was strong when he was actively picking up. He ended up settling down and get married. If you look at his life now, it's a typical married guy in the suburbs life. It looks very beta.

I don't know how you go from what he was to a typical beta.

If the hottest women give the least obvious interest, that can be problematic.

This is true almost across the board--almost everyone in the "community" who actually goes out and approaches has noted this. If they didn't have higher barriers to entry they'd literally be incessantly bombarded with so much male attention they wouldn't be able to function and all the guys they fvcked would be needy, clingy, insecure, etc. since they didn't even have the self-belief to roll up on her. -I've hung out with wayyy too many "wait for choosing signals" guys and seen what "chooses" them; there's a definite ceiling).

You make a good point about hot women playing it very nonchalant and about the ceiling on choosing signal guys.

 

[Velasco]

Everytime you walk into a busy venue or anywhere girls are gathered in a social event and lets say you are atleast a 6. Every girl within eye sight of you notices you. And signals start firing. Subcomunications.
Its important for you whether you are out that night on the prowl or not, to get better at picking up on these.

You look exactly the same whether a girl makes eye contact with you pre-approach or plays with her hair or w/e or you tap

Yes when I walk into a busy venue, I know there will be a lot of eyes on me. However this is not the important part. Like at this stage. Don't worry about missing out on which ones are looking at you. There will be girls making a mental note to either signal you to approach them (end up next to you at the bar, or positioning themselves so they end up within your line of sight so that you don't miss them (even tho they are not looking at you) or approach you themselves. However at the moment you enter a venue, some girls could be busy doing something else where they did not notice you enter the venue. They could for instance be using the bathroom, ordering a drink, talking to their friends in person or through text. Or may have not arrived yet.

Had they been near the door, when you entered the venue. They'd also make that same mental note. Therefore because these girls haven't noticed you yet, they might not throw you choosing signals to approach them. And therefore, you'd incorrectly conclude they aren't interest in you (because they aren't throwing you choosing signals).

 

[derringerG]

All of this is complicated by one very wrong-headed assumption: the (false) belief that cold approaching is the best way to find and date women.

Cold approaching is grueling for nearly 100% of the human population. The only ones who can actually pursue this as a lifestyle or even a consistent activity are guys who do this full time.

For everyone else, there are too many other time and energy consuming priorities which make capitalizing on cold approaches extremely difficult.

For example, cold approaching at night relies on max number of women, drunkenness and receptivity: this all occurs between 11 PM and closing which can vary from 1 AM to 3 AM to well...

This is not a sustainable lifestyle long term and even in the short term it can wreck your sleep cycle, and even if you are successful can tank the remainder of your weekend due to sleep deprivation and lethargy. This is not to mention the risk of belligerent drunks, LMR after hours of pursuit, or even the limited payoff of quickie sex with a stranger after investing an entire night of pursuit. Only to have to mount the same effort night after night, weekend and after weekend. It's like a hamster in a wheel. You're not really going anywhere with this lifestyle. That's assuming you are even successful at what you do.

I have seen far too many "pua" types who settle for land whales or go home empty handed weekend after weekend.

Cold approaching is a huge time sink with very minimal short term payoffs. Most will not pursue it because they can intuit that it doesn't really lead them anywhere worthwhile.

 

[Striker_93]

All of this is complicated by one very wrong-headed assumption: the (false) belief that cold approaching is the best way to find and date women.

Cold approaching is grueling for nearly 100% of the human population. The only ones who can actually pursue this as a lifestyle or even a consistent activity are guys who do this full time.

For everyone else, there are too many other time and energy consuming priorities which make capitalizing on cold approaches extremely difficult.

For example, cold approaching at night relies on max number of women, drunkenness and receptivity: this all occurs between 11 PM and closing which can vary from 1 AM to 3 AM to well...

This is not a sustainable lifestyle long term and even in the short term it can wreck your sleep cycle, and even if you are successful can tank the remainder of your weekend due to sleep deprivation and lethargy. This is not to mention the risk of belligerent drunks, LMR after hours of pursuit, or even the limited payoff of quickie sex with a stranger after investing an entire night of pursuit. Only to have to mount the same effort night after night, weekend and after weekend. It's like a hamster in a wheel. You're not really going anywhere with this lifestyle. That's assuming you are even successful at what you do.

I have seen far too many "pua" types who settle for land whales or go home empty handed weekend after weekend.

Cold approaching is a huge time sink with very minimal short term payoffs. Most will not pursue it because they can intuit that it doesn't really lead them anywhere worthwhile.

Speak for yourself, I know and grew up with plenty of friends and acquaintances who are eating very good from cold Approaching.

I've also done very well for myself with cold Approaching.

Cold Approaching is hard and it sucks for ugly, lame, corny, squares ect type guys.

You're SMV will be a direct reflection on how women respond to you, point blank period, you're game only matters after she's sized up you're SMV.....

The guys who are good at cold Approaching from my experience are those cool, attractive swaggering guys with tons of confidence, the ones I see complaining about how horrible it is are usually the unattractive, uncool whatever you wanna call it.

The game is different for different men, everyone lives in their own reality based on things such as SMV ECT

Cold Approaching takes balls and confidence and women love getting approached but only by the attractive cool guys lol.

Hard sad truth for lots of men but the universe doesn't care about you're tears, it is what it is, life's not fair but this is the brutal truth, the dating world is ruthless lol......

Better step ya SMV up before you jump out there trying to approach women.

And I'm speaking in general not directly to you.

 

[mrskinnypantz]

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I generally agree. But. A recent experience at a bar convinced me that a lack of ‘choosing signals’ aren’t a sure NO.

 

[forcerecon01]

Speak for yourself, I know and grew up with plenty of friends and acquaintances who are eating very good from cold Approaching.

I've also done very well for myself with cold Approaching.

Cold Approaching is hard and it sucks for ugly, lame, corny, squares ect type guys.

You're SMV will be a direct reflection on how women respond to you, point blank period, you're game only matters after she's sized up you're SMV.....

The guys who are good at cold Approaching from my experience are those cool, attractive swaggering guys with tons of confidence, the ones I see complaining about how horrible it is are usually the unattractive, uncool whatever you wanna call it.

The game is different for different men, everyone lives in their own reality based on things such as SMV ECT

Cold Approaching takes balls and confidence and women love getting approached but only by the attractive cool guys lol.

Hard sad truth for lots of men but the universe doesn't care about you're tears, it is what it is, life's not fair but this is the brutal truth, the dating world is ruthless lol......

Better step ya SMV up before you jump out there trying to approach women.

And I'm speaking in general not directly to you.

Well said....

 

[devilkingx2]

All of this is complicated by one very wrong-headed assumption: the (false) belief that cold approaching is the best way to find and date women.

Cold approaching is grueling for nearly 100% of the human population. The only ones who can actually pursue this as a lifestyle or even a consistent activity are guys who do this full time.

For everyone else, there are too many other time and energy consuming priorities which make capitalizing on cold approaches extremely difficult.

For example, cold approaching at night relies on max number of women, drunkenness and receptivity: this all occurs between 11 PM and closing which can vary from 1 AM to 3 AM to well...

This is not a sustainable lifestyle long term and even in the short term it can wreck your sleep cycle, and even if you are successful can tank the remainder of your weekend due to sleep deprivation and lethargy. This is not to mention the risk of belligerent drunks, LMR after hours of pursuit, or even the limited payoff of quickie sex with a stranger after investing an entire night of pursuit. Only to have to mount the same effort night after night, weekend and after weekend. It's like a hamster in a wheel. You're not really going anywhere with this lifestyle. That's assuming you are even successful at what you do.

I have seen far too many "pua" types who settle for land whales or go home empty handed weekend after weekend.

Cold approaching is a huge time sink with very minimal short term payoffs. Most will not pursue it because they can intuit that it doesn't really lead them anywhere worthwhile.

I always held the view that Cold Approaching is for practice, you sharpen your game and hammer out the impurities until you have a flawless Katana to cut through the friendzone and ASD/LMR.

Then when you meet a girl you have a good chance with you're ready. But I'm sure that once in a while you'll meet a random girl on the street who likes you enough for it to go somewhere.

 

[BadBoy89]

You're not supposed to "wait" for choosing signals , you are supposed to recognize them and man up and make the approach.
Going after a woman who displays "active disinterest" is a direct reflection of what you feel you deserve and screams desperate and needy
Especially if they have high social value, she thinks her value is higher than yours ...you have been disqualified at that point.

How does a woman display “active dis-interest?”

 

[Striker_93]

How does a woman display “active dis-interest?”

By her directly showing her lack of interest.

 

[mrskinnypantz]

Headphones

How does a woman display “active dis-interest?”



Looking away , avoiding eye contact , getting on the phone . Not smiling when you try to talk to her.
There's way more , basically you just gotta feel the vibes , you'll get a kind of annoyed type of vibe if she wants you to leave her alone

 

[devilkingx2]

How does a woman display “active dis-interest?”

You can sometimes sense when you should or shouldn't talk to a person.

My high school history teacher once talked about how he would walk around quickly with a serious expression on his face while staring at random papers as a trick to get people to think he's busy and leave him alone.

I've seen tips about how to avoid trouble on the streets and some of them are don't look around or make eye contact or smile, so that anyone trying to scam you or rob you doesn't think you'll be receptive.

 

[mrskinnypantz]

There's something automatic about choosing signals tho, it's not voluntary... its a behavior that comes naturally

For example when I'm around an attractive woman , my voice gets deeper ,automatically

With women they get nervous and start laughing at everything , they may say something stupid or start talking alot, they can't help it.

 

[thelambofdeth]

The issue is many dudes don't get choosing signals. People always say "oh well guys are oblivious to signs" which totally discludes that some guys just don't ever get any..

 

[SW15]

All of this is complicated by one very wrong-headed assumption: the (false) belief that cold approaching is the best way to find and date women.

Cold approaching is grueling for nearly 100% of the human population. The only ones who can actually pursue this as a lifestyle or even a consistent activity are guys who do this full time.

For everyone else, there are too many other time and energy consuming priorities which make capitalizing on cold approaches extremely difficult.

Approaching strangers is grueling and often rather unratifying. It isn't the best way to find and date women. Social circle is more gratifying. The problem is setting up a decent social circle where this becomes possible. Getting the direct introduction is better in social circle. There are types of weak social circle game (co-ed sports leagues after a game for instance) where you'll need to walk up to a woman and start a conversation. It is easier to start that conversation at the sponsor bar post co-ed sports league than a random bar approach or random day game approach.

There are often time and energy consuming priorities. First off, men have to have jobs in most cases to get vagina. Those jobs require concentration. Sleep helps concentration. Bar approaching can impact sleep as I'll get into below. There's also exercising, family obligations, stuff with friends. These things often get in the way of cold approaching. Sure, sometimes a man can get in a cold approach or two at the gym or a fitness class.

I have only done cold approaching over time because I've never had a viable social circle. Some of the reasons I've never had a viable social circle are not my fault (frequent relocations, especially during childhoods) and some reasons would be my fault. Swipe apps are often a worse option. It's interesting to see the growth in swipe apps. If cold approaching weren't grueling, swipe apps would have never become popular.

cold approaching at night relies on max number of women, drunkenness and receptivity: this all occurs between 11 PM and closing which can vary from 1 AM to 3 AM to well...

This is not a sustainable lifestyle long term and even in the short term it can wreck your sleep cycle, and even if you are successful can tank the remainder of your weekend due to sleep deprivation and lethargy. This is not to mention the risk of belligerent drunks, LMR after hours of pursuit, or even the limited payoff of quickie sex with a stranger after investing an entire night of pursuit. Only to have to mount the same effort night after night, weekend and after weekend. It's like a hamster in a wheel. You're not really going anywhere with this lifestyle. That's assuming you are even successful at what you do.

Cold approaching is a huge time sink with very minimal short term payoffs. Most will not pursue it because they can intuit that it doesn't really lead them anywhere worthwhile.

You accurately depict cold approach at night in the bars. Try doing it on weeknights and working the next day. The only night game solution is to only do approaches during Happy Hours between 5-8 PM on weeknights or do some bar approaches on weekend afternoons/early evenings.

Cold approaching during the day eliminates the late hours problem. It also helps in terms of isolating women from their friends. It's easier to find an isolated woman at the gym, a fitness class, the grocery store, or out on a walking/hiking path. However, there are plenty of problems associated with non-bar approaching at more reasonable hours of the day. Non-bar day time cold approaching has a volume problem. You don't run into as many physically attractive and eligible women who are open to a conversation in non-bar venues. There's a lot of earbud wearing in these venues to discourage approaches.

 

[Striker_93]

The issue is many dudes don't get choosing signals. People always say "oh well guys are oblivious to signs" which totally discludes that some guys just don't ever get any..

Yep, this is truth right here, most guys don't get signals, hence why you have guys who don't even kno what choosing signals are lol

 

[mrskinnypantz]

My point was to avoid low interest women who give few short signals, and go for the high interest ones.

Yup , Chalk it up to her being friendly , or. Make a move and get it over with