The Perfect Don Juan

[Ralph Bellamy]

Originally posted by SexPDX:
He always asks for the HOME phone number. He walks away if he doesn't get it.

I understand the argument for this but it's really inconsequential if you create sufficient attraction which phone number you actually get. If she gives you her cell and not her home number it's not necessarily to be taken as a sign of insufficient attraction necessarily. She may in fact be doing it to make it easier for you to get in touch with her.

Nah, I agree with AD on this one. I want to talk to a lady on her home phone, not when she's God-knows-where on her cell or at work where she can use the workload as an excuse to dodge me and co-workers to front for her. Not even going there on the beeper number. Dealing with all of this is not even an option for me anymore. Life is too short.

A Don Juan always waits four or more days before calling a girl. She must wait.

Disagree, if you created a sufficient level of attraction you are just wasting time and putting yourself in a position to have to rebuild the excitement that you created for her initially.

Two or three days is my general rule, if things went well. I want to still be fresh on her mind but not appear like I have no life. Wait too long and you lose everything, you're just a distant memory.

A Don Juan never arranges a date face-to-face with a girl. He always calls first. She must wait and wonder about him.

Disagree. There is no guarantee she will wonder about you at all. If AD were still around I would very much like to hear from him what her wondering about you would be inspired by if you have done nothing to facilitate the development of feelings of attraction other than asking for her phone number.

I do agree here. Assuming she'll wonder about you is a recipe for failure. It's overconfidence.

He sees a girl ONLY once a week for the first three weeks. He has to 'clear' his dates with other women. Or pretend he is busy with other women. He says he is busy if she wants more.

A matter of personal preference for the most part. Not a bad policy to have I suppose.

Three weeks sounds arbitrary but I agree with the general idea.

A Don Juan never gives flowers, cards, or gifts for the first two months. Her birthday is the only exception.

Not sure I would give them after that LOL. Seriously, I would consider a holiday to be an exception too, and what gift I get her for say, Christmas, will be proportionate to the amount of time I've invested in the relationship.

He never talks over an hour with a women on the phone. EVER. Twenty minutes is tops. He avoids contact with her. With e-mails and messages, etc. between dates. He calls once to arrange the next date.

I don't agree, this sounds too arbitrary. I would prefer to let the flow of the relationship decide this. No, I don't want to outstay my welcome on her phone and I want to end on a high note, but I won't cut off a nice, engaging conversation right after 19:59 on the stopwatch. Maybe keep them short early but EVER is too severe.

During the first three months he tells her NOTHING about himself. She has to ask. When asked, he gives only tiny itty bitty pieces.

...Of course you do need to be tactful about your self-disclosure in terms of exactly what information and you don't want to constantly be putting yourself at the center of attention but hoarding as much info as you can for three months is a little too much.

Agreed. It is not my style to always look like I'm Richard Nixon, always trying to hide something. Mystery is good for initial attraction but I have no use for it in a LTR. On the other hand, I do agree with making her work for it a bit, and waiting until she asks, and not being overly detailed and blabby, but not the other extreme of acting like I'm a closed book with no life and nothing to say.

He waits for her to say 'I love you' first. Then he knows she really means it.

Agreed.

Same here.

A Don Juan never says 'I love you' before two months. Ever.

I see no need for such a hard-assed rule on this one. I know when I am in love (which has only been once) and I will have no problem owning up to it if I KNOW it's there.

I do agree with the amount of time, generally, but again I consider nothing in this post or on this site to be iron-clad, especially not a time unit.

A Don Juan NEVER proposes before six months. He prefers to wait one year. All minor flaws must be seen.

I am not qualified to comment on this one.

I am. I deliberately waited about proposing to my ex-fiance and lived to regret it. (It was right around the year mark; she was expecting to see it around six months, when I *really* wanted to do it.) It hurt the relationship, and gave her a false idea of my interest level that affected her trust in me. I will never again go so far against my own gut just because some game suggests it's not the best thing to do. I will propose when I am ready and not a nanosecond before...or after.

A Don Juan only FOCUSES on the romantic side of a women. He knows long talks lead to friendship not LOVE. He knows being a mystery fascinates her and makes her WONDER and WANT him.

He talks about mystery like it is all there is to attraction, too much emphasis on it IMO. Also, I disagree that long talks necessarily "lead to friendship and not love." He is attempting to judge the outcome of an interaction by only evaluating the duration and not the content, which is not logical.

Perfect, Sex. I think Anti-Dump seems to put way too much emphasis on Mystery. So at what point do we *not* worry about mystery anymore? Ever? Throw it out the window on the wedding night? I don't want to live the rest of my life in a masquerade dance with the woman I love, because I'll be just as lonely as if I never dated again from 35 to 95. And I want the woman I love to have a realistic idea of who I am before she marries me. I'd rather scare her off then instead of having her run off with the mailman because I suddenly started having long talks with her after the "I do's". Again, don't wear yourself thin or bore her silly, but using a stopwatch is the other extreme and that sounds like what Anti-Dump is advocating.

And lastly, a true Don Juan
makes sure the relationship is 50-50. HALF of the time she is doing what HE wants to do. He feels this in his stomach. Not head.

Don't really understand this one completely so I will leave it alone.

I do and I agree with this last one 100%, ironically coming after the one with which I disagree most.

I do agree that mystery is a very important part of attraction, especially up front. But after awhile even *that* gets old. Some women give up at some point, in favor of a known quality. That was a secret I picked up the umpteenth time I got dumped by a woman who ran back to a jerk, sometimes her idea of the unknown works against you. It's about timing, and sometimes even luck

 

[Ralph Bellamy]

Originally posted by Maximus:
This has always puzzled me.

Why do people think in terms of power and control?

This is *not* about power, and not about the type of control you seem to be discussing. It's about playing by my rules, not always bending to everyone else's like I did during an AFC period that ran way, way too long. When I approach, and I get her number, I have peace of mind. I don't really have that if she makes the first move. I don't feel I've earned anything.

 

[Donjuanpablo]

While his techniques may be questionable at times, his attitude is what is important and that is why I think this is a good post for newbies.

DJP

 

[aurora]

AD has it right for the most part with several exceptions. I don't necessarily beiieve that getting a girls cell number is bad. In fact I agree with Sexpd that it may be her way of giving you greater access to her and I know many girls who exclusively have a cellphone. Being a mystery is good but it can also lose you the girl if you overdo it. I think after about 2 months into the relationship you should ease the challenge thing a bit, otherwise, you will come across as flakey to the girl and she will just dump you.

 

[Survivor]

Originally posted by SexPDX:
I think AD was well-intentioned but I don't like the approach of a focus on rules.

Why not? Because his rules won't get you laid?

I agree that AD's rules for the "Perfect Don Juan" will not arouse any woman, let alone get a guy laid. But his rules are still relevant for a different reason.

How can an "AFC" demonstrate value when he typically has nothing of value to demonstrate in the first place? While AD's rules do not stress demonstrating value, they do help newcomers develop value in terms of thickening his skin, learning how to respect himself and growing a backbone.

Newcomers have to develop value (i.e. self-improvement) before they can demonstrate value. I think Anti-Dump's rules are still one way that this can be accomplished.

Originally posted by SexPDX:
The more a guy focuses on rules (even if he is an AFC) the more he is hindering the development of his ability to form opinions about women on his own.

Ah, but that's where experience comes into play!

I contend that rules are a vital part of developing the qualities that women desire in a man. The more a guy focuses on rules (in the intial stages of self-improvement), the more experience he gains that he can later use form his own behavioral guidelines.

Again, the rules for the "Perfect Don Juan" won't get anyone laid on its own, but the rules may help get guys laid only after they've modified it their own lifestyle and personality, like AD stated.

Originally posted by SexPDX:
These rules may help guys who have no game only because AD's game will be better than theirs (which obviously will not be saying much) but I guy is not going to get to be great with chicks by simply following these rules.

That depends heavily on your objective for being here in the first place.

None of us will ever know if AD truly had the "game" that he claimed to have. That being said, alot us come here for different reasons; some to learn "PU skills", some to find "LTRs", others simply to "troll". AD's rules are probably more in line with guys who are looking for "LTRs". That's probably why the "Perfect Don Juan" isn't overwelmingly endorsed by everyone on this board. Nor should it be.

 

[Jinn]

Originally posted by SexPDX:

A Don Juan always waits four or more days before calling a girl. She must wait.

Disagree, if you created a sufficient level of attraction you are just wasting time and putting yourself in a position to have to rebuild the excitement that you created for her initially. However, if you did NOTHING to create an attraction then calling quickly would be lame so wait (but don't expect much to come from calling an unattracted girl).

No, AD is dead on about this. You should wait even if you've created a lot of attraction when you approached her. If you call quickly you'll be doing exactly what she wants and what she expects you to do, you're playing by her rules. However, if you wait, you're keeping her in suspense. If she's attracted to you she'll be thinking about you a lot during the span b/w when you met and when you call and wondering why you didn't call immediately. Then it'll be that much sweeter for her when you finally go out of your way and take your precious time to give her a call. Her attraction will have grown by then, you won't have had to rebuild anything


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"Women are like the sunset. They're beautiful, but there will be a different one tomorrow."

 

[Survivor]

Well Jinn, you're both right and wrong.

Here's where I agree with you. You're right in stating that it is important for "newbies" to wait a few days before calling.

However, you are wrong in thinking that waiting to call is going make a girl more interested in you. That's where I have to side with PDX.

For further clarification, go to the DJ Bible and look up a post called "The Inner Struggle of the DJ Student" by trickynick (I wonder what happened to him?

).

Pay particular attention to the response given by Rebel Leader, who was one of the more respected females to have ever posted on this forum. She explains it a little better than I could.

Hope this helps in your further understanding.

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I'm still not confident yet to approach strangers and ask for phone numbers, but that's no longer my primary goal. My goal now is to be happy and successful in my own life, independant of whether women are attracted to me or not. - Survivor (8/22/2000)

 

[comic_relief]

This is an awesome post. A well needed bump.

Many master DJs went on to this and put in their own advice. I would like to see the newer Master DJs advice for this post.

I go with "How bout you write down your number down for me"

 

[Spike_the_cowboy]

Bump.

 

[Dirtheart]

No offence intended to the poster, but I disagree with almost everything written here. It seems too much like generic rules and childish games to me.

Every woman is different, so I always prefer to use my initiative, trust my instincts and adapt my own "rules" to the woman I'm dating.

Providing you don't appear desperate, I don't see any problem.

 

[thebsharp]

I agree with dirtheart.

 

[eniktin]

Originally posted by thebsharp
I agree with dirtheart.

a perfect don juan is a lot like tiburon

he is confident

he is flexible, and keeps experimenting and learning new things

he is authentic

you guys should learn from him rather than construct pathetic idealistic structures of what a don juan does

 

[eniktin]

<<THE PERFECT DON JUAN>>

Define Don Juan. Are you trying to attract a woman who is relationship material -- or are you trying to get layed as soon as possible (or something in-between)? Because your strategy will vary depending on this.

<<He asks for a girl's phone number when he FIRST meets or sees her. Not one month later.>>

that's fine. there are a few exceptions but that's fine.

<<He always asks for the HOME phone number. He walks away if he doesn't get it. >>

that's good

<<A Don Juan always waits four or more days before calling a girl. She must wait.>>

5-9 days (more than 9 is rude; less than 4 is desparate)

<<A Don Juan never arranges a date face-to-face with a girl. He always calls first. She must wait and wonder about him.>>

Never arranges a date on ANOTHER DATE. But what if the girl gave you her address instead of her number, because she really doesn't have a land line?

<<He sees a girl ONLY once a week for the first three weeks. He has to 'clear' his dates with other women. Or pretend he is busy with other women. He says he is busy if she wants more.>>

If you are courting a girl for a long term relationship, it's once a week for 9 dates. Good point about pretending to be buisy with other women. They have a herd mentality. if they think other women want you, they want you more.

<<A Don Juan never gives flowers, cards, or gifts for the first two months. Her birthday is the only exception.>>

OK, that's excellent! I don't think her birthday is an exception during the first two months.

<<He never talks over an hour with a women on the phone. EVER. Twenty minutes is tops. He avoids contact with her. With e-mails and messages, etc. between dates. He calls once to arrange the next date.>>

three minutes more like it. the phone is only to set appointments.

<<During the first three months he tells her NOTHING about himself. She has to ask. When asked, he gives only tiny itty bitty pieces.>>

that's good.

<<He waits for her to say 'I love you' first. Then he knows she really means it.>>
<<A Don Juan never says 'I love you' before two months. Ever.>

A man should only say I love you about three times for her whole life -- when she is giving birth, when she's been in an accident, and when she asks him to marry her, for example. After you are married to the girl, the only way to maintain challenge is by NOT saying I love you, and NOT talking about the future.

<<A Don Juan NEVER proposes before six months. He prefers to wait one year. All minor flaws must be seen.>>

The man never proposes. She has to beg you to marry her. She has to beg you to be exclusive with her etc. You can't pressure a woman, it's anti-challenge.

<<A Don Juan never lives with a women. He is a free man. He will marry the BEST when he meets her. >>

Why marry? Isn't living togeather the same thing as being married without the legal liabilitiues? What I sense here is fear of loss. She has to be afraid to lose you, not the other way around.

<<A Don Juan only FOCUSES on the romantic side of a women. He knows long talks lead to friendship not LOVE. He knows being a mystery fascinates her and makes her WONDER and WANT him.>>

Can you please expalin what the heck this means.

<<And lastly, a true Don Juan
makes sure the relationship is 50-50. HALF of the time she is doing what HE wants to do. He feels this in his stomach. Not head.>>

that's good. if there is an imbalance of power, there is no interactivity, so you can't really call it a relationship. it's slavery and degradation for one and an ego trip for the other.

eniktin

 

[thebsharp]

All these stupid rules is pissing me off, you have to. Just do whatever the hell you want, trust your instinct, MAKE MISTAKE! dammit if all you do is follow the rules and if the rules fail, where are you gonna turn to? You'll just end up confused.

 

[eniktin]

Originally posted by thebsharp
All these stupid rules is pissing me off, you have to. Just do whatever the hell you want, trust your instinct, MAKE MISTAKE! dammit if all you do is follow the rules and if the rules fail, where are you gonna turn to? You'll just end up confused.

follow your instincts. be free. make mistakes. but by knowing what actually works, stay aware of your mistakes. it's like a compas.

 

[Skydiver43127]

The rules AD presented work together, describing a type of personality and behaviour. Bickering about the exact days/minutes serves no purpose, because they are OBVIOUSLY not the essential thing here, and so is breaking down the rules one by one.

I personally go for the e-mail, ICQ or mobile, because I really have better things to do than call agan and again till I find the chick. Does that mean that I need permission from AD? Do I REALLY have to discuss it with him or anyone else?

So, my advise for everyone on this topic is - read things like the first post of the topic and try to understand why they work. Understanding why they DON'T work is useless anyway.

 

[bbestar]

I work at radioshack and im really liking that business card i don't do this often thing

1. Approach girl
2. Some fluff talk
3. tell her, U know what.. I don't do this often.. (pull out card, write down cell number) then tell her that you'll think will be great friends, and mention that you'll be busy, so if she calls she might get the voicemail. Tell her to keep leaving messages, and that you'll eventually hear it


im goin to kinkos to make cards

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

Who answers their home phone??? I don't and most ppl I know use their cell as their main phone.....If u were to call my home ph it would just ring.....

I thought most of us were over this "how to be a dj", "how to be alpha lameness.

Seduction doesn't have one set of rules that apply to everyone.... Find your natural game, improve on your weaknesses, and just go out and have fun.

 

[I_Only_Live_Once]

Originally posted by SELF-MASTERY
Who answers their home phone??? I don't and most ppl I know use their cell as their main phone.....

I think the original poster's advice on cell phones is dated because he posted this advice 5 years ago when a lot of people did not use their cell phones very often or had low quality phones. The conversations on cell phones were often idiotic because of the poor reception.

 

[Desdinova]

Although I respect Anti-dump, this stuff has been tried and tested many times since this was originally posted...

He always asks for the HOME phone number. He walks away if he doesn't get it.

As was mentioned previously, Cell phones are used much more than five years ago. Home phone number is a bare minimum. Getting her cell on top of her home number is a plus.

A Don Juan always waits four or more days before calling a girl. She must wait.

Disagree. I've lost dates by following this "rule". Striking while the iron is hot (calling the next day) will give more success.

A Don Juan never gives flowers, cards, or gifts for the first two months. Her birthday is the only exception .

Disagree. Christmas and Valentine's should be included since they are significant gift-giving holidays

During the first three months he tells her NOTHING about himself. She has to ask. When asked, he gives only tiny itty bitty pieces.

This should be limited to the first month. Building deep rapport with personal experience is effective.

He waits for her to say 'I love you' first. Then he knows she really means it.

Disagree. Women speak based on their emotions. If they "feel" a connection or want to keep the guy around, they'll say it regardless of deep meaning.