The official Borderline Personality Disorder thread [Merged]

[Die Hard]

SmoothTalker I am in no way trying to discount you or anyone's terrible experiences with BPD women. I'm sure it can be hell.

The point I take issue with is when she starts acting up and the guy allows it to happen. As you say you are telling your friends tales of her insanity and they don't even believe it because it is so ridiculous.

The fact that you continue to expose yourself to this type of behaviour knowing full well it is wrong is where I don't understand. Would you accept this type of behaviour from any other person in your life? What about a guy friend? What about a real ugly girl?

What about if during your relationship with a BPD girl you start seeing a REALLY great and beautiful normal girl on the side? She's level headed, smart, fun, super sexy, sexual, and pretty much perfect in every way possible. What happens to your BPD addiction then???

If you choose the normal girl then were you really addicted to the BPD? If you choose the BPD then are you anything but weak?

So that is why I say that you guys need to take some responsibility for your BPD addictions. It seems to me that you are choosing sex over your own sanity.

The 'habit' to expose yourself to that type of behaviour is not really a conscious choice, it's more of an automated response. Perhaps it's easier to understand when you think of people having a phobia.

For example, a guy has a phobia for cats. You can take away every rational thought that makes him afraid: show the guy that no harm comes to other people when they come close to the cat. You could even remove it's teeth and claws! Eventually the guy will still be afraid, even if he himself admits there is no rational reason to be afraid! It's an automated response, rational thought won't make it dissapear. In this case the automatic response is more of a simple physical reaction..but on a deeper level, the same principle can be applied to more complex human behaviour and explains why some people cling to a person who mistreats them, even though they rationally know that it will make them feel miserable.

Most of the time, these people are conditioned to ignore the realization that they could and should leave the person who mistreats them. Like when you're fat and decide to stop eating junkfood, you'll still crave for it..and sometimes you'll say to yourself: "Fuck it, I need a hamburger right now!" and just buy one. The realization that it's bad for you and that you had promised yourself not to do this anymore, is simply put aside with the thought "So what..I don't care..." while you shrug your shoulders. Some people are just conditioned to do things that are bad for them..the conditoning takes over their thoughts, feelings and behaviour to a point where even their rational thinking is conditioned to come up with all kinds of counter-thoughts in order to neutralize any thought that will lead them to stay away from the person they cling to.

And yes, in the case of people clinging to BPD's, the conditioning lies in their childhood and was done by their parents... But I'll shut up about that before I get the predictable: "Sure...and all little boys want to fuck their mommies and kill their daddies, right?"

 

[grayclif]

If I know I'll eventually feel a certain way about this woman before long, shouldn't I guard myself. This MM forum preaches self improvement, abundance till you find the right one AND stay away from crazy bltches. I wish we would stop rationalizing.

 

[Jitterbug]

This thread makes my skin crawl, but nevertheless I thank you people for fighting a good fight for us inexperienced and/or naive guys.

I was very lucky that I met my Cluster B ex AFTER I learned about Cluster B behaviours through experienced men on this forum, so I knew how to deal with her.

Every man should learn about this Cluster B creature (and they've been around for a long time if you read classic literature) to protect himself.

 

[Die Hard]

If I know I'll eventually feel a certain way about this woman before long, shouldn't I guard myself. This MM forum preaches self improvement, abundance till you find the right one AND stay away from crazy bltches. I wish we would stop rationalizing.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say with your post. Could you elaborate?

 

[Die Hard]

DieHard~

You can get addicted to people just like you can a drug. It's "the rollercoaster effect". Amazing highs when she's working with you, horrifying lows when she's against you.

BPD people are hard to quit like heroin. You look forward & bask in the "good times" and you are crazy desperate to get those good times back when she's being evil to you. What you're going through right now is basiclly withdrawl. You miss the high so bad it hurts. You're telling yourself the lows weren't REALLY that bad. Your own brain is sucking you back in to her or a girl like her. You are CONDITIONED to like it.

No contact is one of the only ways to get clean from her influence.

Also be careful you aren't drawn to another BPD girl because it's familiar & what you're used to.

Haha, I didn't read your post until just now. Funny to see that you mentioned the conditioning of the brain to get sucked back into a BPD while I just wrote about that too . Anyway, thanks for your post but you really don't have to teach me anything about BPD's..I have a huge amount of experience and knowledge when it comes to them *huffs and beats on chest for jophil*

 

[jophil28]

Remember this - over 95% of woman do not qualify for a diagnosis of BPD/HPD. And almost all men are totally unaware of the existence of this disorder in women.

However, if you have read enough on this forum to be informed about the signs and symptoms of the Cluster B nuts and their destructiveness, and you choose to continue to sleep with one, then YOU are the problem.

 

[Die Hard]

True, jophil. Even though just 5% of women fully fits the diagnosis, we should still warn guys about the symptoms coz even a woman who fits the diagnosis partially, can be dangerous. That's exactly why people shouldn't complain about the BPD label being brought up so much on the forum. If I read signs of BPD when someone describes a girl, I will bring up the BPD label right away. It's not about officially diagnosing, it's about preventing guys from getting hurt..

You're right about people being their own problem if they stay with a BPD, they often simply blame her for their misery while overlooking their own responsibility for it...

 

[Slickster]

The 'habit' to expose yourself to that type of behaviour is not really a conscious choice, it's more of an automated response. Perhaps it's easier to understand when you think of people having a phobia.

For example, a guy has a phobia for cats. You can take away every rational thought that makes him afraid: show the guy that no harm comes to other people when they come close to the cat. You could even remove it's teeth and claws! Eventually the guy will still be afraid, even if he himself admits there is no rational reason to be afraid! It's an automated response, rational thought won't make it dissapear. In this case the automatic response is more of a simple physical reaction..but on a deeper level, the same principle can be applied to more complex human behaviour and explains why some people cling to a person who mistreats them, even though they rationally know that it will make them feel miserable.

Well if that is the truth then I guess the guys who fall for the BPD's are f*cked in the head too then. Seriously. This is not normal behaviour.
Like you say it is irrational.

I think its funny that nobody wants to admit it.

 

[katatonia]

Well if that is the truth then I guess the guys who fall for the BPD's are f*cked in the head too then. Seriously. This is not normal behaviour.
Like you say it is irrational.

I think its funny that nobody wants to admit it.

Such ignorance...

 

[Slickster]

Such ignorance...

I take it you didn't read anything I wrote previously.

 

[Jitterbug]

Well if that is the truth then I guess the guys who fall for the BPD's are f*cked in the head too then. Seriously. This is not normal behaviour.
Like you say it is irrational.

I think its funny that nobody wants to admit it.

There are two types of guys who want to know about these Cluster B women: guys who were in a relationship with one and got seriously mind-fvcked, and guys who want to learn about them so that they can avoid them. It's like learning about the dark side of drugs or alcohol so that you know how to protect yourself.

None of those guys is interested in the chest-beating "I'M INVINCIBLE HEAR ME ROAR" macho BS. If you think they're weak - fine, go play somewhere else. You don't walk into an AA meeting and announce that alcoholics & the young ones they're educating from their experiences are weak. There are plenty of great men in history who were alcoholics. Their weakness in one thing does not invalidate their strength & greatness in others.

 

[katatonia]

I take it you didn't read anything I wrote previously.

What you've said in this thread is just plain bullsh1t and you clearly have never encountered one of these women in your life (well not long enough for them to mindfvck you). Anyone can be fooled by these creatures, and the only people who can come out completely unaffected are NPD and AsPD sociopaths because they just don't care enough and don't have enough emotions or conscience to be manipulated with.

What you are saying is akin to saying "only people who are fvcked in the head can get addicted to drugs", which is obviously a load of crap.

I guess someone with the buffer of knowledge against BPDs/HPDs can be mostly unaffected but how many people know that personality disorders even exist and then how many of those know about the true nature of Cluster-B psychos and how they work? 0.01% of the population is my guess.

 

[jophil28]

Imagine eating a daily serving of the sweetest, most delicious bee's honey that you ever tasted - pure ambrosia. All of your senses are tingling, and eager to sample tomorrow's serving.
Then two months later you start to feel ill. You ignore the early symptoms hoping that they will resolve themselves and further dismiss any suggestion that the honey is causing you damage.
One day, after your health has deteriotated over a year or so, you discover that you have been ingesting battery acid which has been cleverly been disguised as honey.

That is a BPD woman.

 

[horaholic]

Its more you like you have evidence that there is battery acid in it, but you never really know for sure.


Also like a boa constricter in disguise. Once you realize your getting squeezed, its next to impossible to escape.

 

[Slickster]

Well Jitterbug and Katatonia

Go back to page 1 and read the very first post again. Specifically the last paragraph. You might make a bit more sense of the direction I am taking.

Here I'll do it for you:

Personally, in the end I found the best way to recover from (a undiagnosed) HPD encounter was to feed the topic as little energy as possible and focus on why I didn't see it. Or more simply, I came to the realization that I am the MAN and whether she's a Ginger(HPD) or a Marry-Ann I need to take responsibility for the outcome. I can blame the woman all day long. In the end, that's just who they are and will not change. It's me that needs to take this new found awareness, stop feeding the negative and move forward with my life. There's nothing wrong with recognizing a Cluster 'B'. There's even less wrong with feeding her zero energy afterwards.

You see this thread was never suppose to go in this direction. In fact the OP even predicted it would, based on how most of the guys here who have dated BPD's consider themselves the victims.

The actual purpose of this thread was to stop the whining and for MEN to start taking responsibility. A big part of recovery is admitting your weaknesses and accepting your faults.

My previous comments weren't made to make the BPD addicts feel lesser or myself feel greater. I'm just trying to get to the bloody point of this whole thread!!

I guess after 5 pages of victim stories I do find it funny that not one of you "enlightened" guys is MAN enough to take ANY responsibility for your episodes with these BPD women. It's sad!

Just like always here on SS. It's always the woman's fault. Women are evil. This place is reminding me of the bitter feminist groups at university.

Sure getting the word out there about Cluster B's is a good message for guys who are unaware. However the whole "victim thing" has been done to death around here!!!

I'm sure it was a terrible experience for you guys but complaining and whining is weak! If this was 10-15 years ago before these mental issues became common labels (BPD, HPD, etc.) then this thread would be a bunch of wimps whining about their crazy girlfriends who broke up with them. BRUTAL!!

Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh but this thread was supposed to be something very different.

If you really want to heal then lose the egos guys!

 

[wait_out]

It's always the woman's fault. Women are evil.

Fixed. Nothing to see here, move along, next thread

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Guys lets not "waste" this thread, otherwise it´s gonna be closed!

As a music addicted I think this song represents cluster B so well:

CREED - A THOUSAND FACES

I stand surrounded by the walls that once confined me.
Knowing I'll be underneath them when they crumble,
when they fall
With clarity my scars remind me
Ask yourself what's just under my skin

A different smiles again
So much I hide
How is stepping back I move forward?

Now I'm forced to look behind
I'm forced to look at you
You wear a thousand faces
Tell me, tell me which is you
Broken mirrors paint the floor
Why can't you see your truth?
You wear a thousand faces
Tell me, tell me which is you
Tell me which is you.

You need time make no change
Pointing fingers, laying blame.
Lying over and over and over and over
Decieving your mind
Dug my grave, trashed my name
Yet here I stand so you won't fade away

A different smiles again
So much I hide
How is stepping back I move forward?

Now I'm forced to look behind
I'm forced to look at you
You wear a thousand faces
Tell me, tell me which is you
Broken mirrors paint the floor
Why can't you tell the truth?
You wear a thousand faces
Tell me, tell me which is you
Tell me which is you.

I bleed inside
Just let it out
(You got to let it out)
Let it die!

Slikster I see your point. Yet, those stories are good because they are so similiar it can be used as reference for future "hostages/victims". If a girl lied to you are you to blame for believing her? It´s not so simple as you say. As Doc love says "Look for inconsistencies, don´t rush, look for red flags, and be a "love cop""!! It´s important not only to know what these girls are up to, but at the same time, make sure we don´t fall into such a trap the next time. The past is a reference for the future. If we don´t learn from it we are doomed to repeat it. We need mistakes to learn from them. That´s why this topic is valid.

 

[Slickster]

There have not been too many Cluster B discussions as of late, however you seem to have put a lot of attention on one now. You can call us weak, but in reality, you truly are ignorant of such a disease until you have had it in your life. Have you ever heard of PTSD?

The only reason I joined this thread is because I thought it had a different message. A good one.

Yes I've heard of PTSD. A good friend was diagnosed with it and committed suicide last year. Weakest move ever!

Peace

 

[Slickster]

Hey guys I've been thinking about this thread more this morning.

I just want you guys to know I agree that I've been a bit of an a$$ but my intentions were to try and get back to the pupose of this post. I know I've been a little harsh but I've been trying to kick some arses back into shape here.

I can remember in my early SS days when I was whining and moaning about something stupid. There were a few guys who ripped me to shreds and made me feel like sh!t.

At the time I hated it and was really pissed off. However after a while I realized that those guys were right. I needed that big slap to figure it out and I was truly grateful.

I know taking responsibility for your mistakes is tough for some people. I recently got ripped off buying a used car. The guy who sold it to me told me a bunch lies and completely suckered me. I had been looking for this particular model for a long time and even though I could sense something wasn't right about this guy I bought it anyway.

When I got the car home and had a better look and drove it more I realized I had made a huge mistake. I wanted to kill the guy! At least try to take him to court or something. It took me a few weeks but I've eventually realized that I should've known better and trusted my gut. The guy totally screwed me over but it was my fault. I'm still bitter but accepting my mistake was a huge weight off of my shoulders.

I'm not comparing a used car to a BPD situation but hopefully you get the idea.

Anyhow I just want you guys to know that my intentions are good and I'm not just trying to piss people off.

Peace

 

[Die Hard]

It is indeed a very difficult task to convince anyone who's in the "fog", but not impossible! I've been doing this on another forum for a few years now: Most of the time, you can only help someone when you sort of "walk alongside" them in their daily experiences with their BPD's. You can't just tell them how it all works in one post and expect them to be cured, you really have to educate them "along the way". Everytime something typical happens to them, you sort of analyse the situation together with them and explain what's really going on. Eventually, because you explain all the inner mechanisms in relation to their daily experiences and you keep repeating that, they'll start to see the patterns and start recognising the inner mechanisms without your help. Some guys simply require a lot more "lessons" than others so it might take quite a while, but I've learned that when I really dedicate myself to helping someone out, I almost always succeed. It's just damn tiring and frustrating so I tend to give up on someone pretty fast nowadays. I often think: "You either get it or you don't! If you wanna stay with her, go ahead! See ya!"

Maybe all of us "knowledgeable" people should try to construct some sort of manual to help people in the "fog" find their way out, put in in the DJ Bible and just refer everyone to that.