The myth of the single woman

[ketostix]

The way I see it is just about every woman, "single", in a relationship, married, or not has at least one guy who is devoted and commited to her. If she's willingly cohorting with other guys and willing and wanting to fvck another guy then for all practical purposes she is "cheating" and for all intents and purposes she is "single". To me, taken on it's face there is little to no ethical difference.

I don't want this to turn into a marriage discussion, but we all know married people cheat at a rate of 25-50% or more. So why do I owe a married guy courtesty when the odds are probably betetr than even that he would fvck "my" girl? Same thing for guys or girls who have a girlfriend/boyfriend. Their cheating rate is probably over 50%. So why do I owe the guy with a GF courtest when the odds are he would fvck "my" girl too? And did I mention that most all "single" girls have a guy devoted and commited to her? Regardless of titles, a woman who cheats is not devoted or commited to her guy. So there is no difference.

Yep, PU and seduction is a dirty business and you're always going to get your hands dirty. When a majority of people clean up the "business" with actions and not just claims that they are ethical, then I can say the play book rules should change in agreement with that.

This is just a rough outline that I wanted to get the discussion rolling with that others and myself could add to. (Tosses the ball to Str8up )

 

[MotownMack]

I don't want this to turn into a marriage discussion, but we all know marry people cheat at a rate of 25-50% or more. So why do I owe a married guy courtesty when the odds are probably betetr than even that he would fvck "my" girl?

I see your point, but be careful how you extrapolate this mentality into the rest of your life (which on some level, you will undoubtedly do). Many people rationalize away their unscrupulous actions under the guise of "acting within the social consciousness"- i.e. if I don't do it, someone else will, so why not?
(Attorney's who file frivolous law suits are one example that comes to mind- they figure someone else will be a dirt bag and take the case, so they as well, even if they think it's wrong).

 

[ketostix]

I see your point, but be careful how you extrapolate this mentality into the rest of your life (which on some level, you will undoubtedly do). Many people rationalize away their unscrupulous actions under the guise of "acting within the social consciousness"- i.e. if I don't do it, someone else will, so why not?
(Attorney's who file frivolous law suits are one example that comes to mind- they figure someone else will be a dirt bag and take the case, so they as well, even if they think it's wrong).

I see your point. But what I'm saying is it's not jusified but it's how business is done basically. You can draw the line at fvcking a girl with a marriage certificate and that's fine, but it doesn't automatically make you any more of an ethical person than someone who doesn't. The solution is simple if you make a commitment, you keep the commitment. What I'm getting at is sex is full of hypocrisy and competitveness, basically with people saying do what I say not what I do. And regardless of a girls relationship title or lack of one, if you fvck more than one, same girl and even then you are "cheating" someone.

 

[STR8UP]

What I'm getting at is sex is full of hypocrisy and competitveness, basically with people saying do what I say not what I do. And regardless of a girls relationship title or lack of one, if you fvck more than one, same girl and even then you are "cheating" someone.

The point I was trying to get at in the last thread when the topic changed course was that the phrase "All is fair in love and war" coined for a reason, and that is because they are BOTH "warfare". They are both about survival of our genes and of our species.

When dealing with romantic relationships you are at war. And you are at war not only with other men, but with the woman lying next to you as well.

There might be a temporary "peace treaty", usually during the beginning phases of a relationship, but rest assured most men continue to seek out (if not seek at least remain open to) a piece off ass long into a relationship, and pretty much all women continue to scan the horizon for someone who might better suit her needs. Most men have yet to realize that to women, they are pretty much expendable.

If 50% of marriages end in divorce, 50% of people have extramarital affairs, and this is just the stuff that people will ADMIT to.....not to mention that out of ALL relationships how many of them survive? 5%? Maybe?

So I just don't see how men, as rational beings, can continue to hold onto this romantic ideal that they are above it all, that although the odds are stacked against them, that they will persevere. This doesn't mean that I myself am closed to the idea of settling down with one woman, but I'll tell you what, she's gonna have to be one helluva female for me to consider it. Armed with the knowledge and the healthy dose of reality that I bring to the table, I would say that if I ever did go that route the odds would be stacked in my favor, but I refuse to be so arrogant as to think that the rules don't apply to me as well.

This whole relationship thing is just as you say.....it's DIRTY BUSINESS. There isn't much in the world that has the potential to create the kind of emotional response that "romance" does.

Us men aren't nearly as much of a slave to our emotions as women are, yet we continue to try to look at the world of relationships from their perspective instead of seeing it for what it really is.

 

[ketostix]

I almost shocked at how right on the mark, coherent and cojent (sp?) everything you said was Str8. As much I might wish and want it all to not be true it is true. It is reality.

There might be a temporary "peace treaty", usually during the beginning phases of a relationship, but rest assured most men continue to seek out (if not seek at least remain open to) a piece off ass long into a relationship, and pretty much all women continue to scan the horizon for someone who might better suit her needs. Most men have yet to realize that to women, they are pretty much expendable.

I found it hard to just cut out one part to emphasize, but I think this part is the major crux of the issue.

 

[wjh]

It's very simple to me. If a girl is committed to her man she will not cheat. She will also take significant strides to reduce or completely diminish her interaction with other men. All other women, married or not, are simply not committed. I don't feel bad or unethical playing my hand with a woman who is not committed to a man.

 

[Señor Fingers]

"All is fair in love and war"

Love is a battlefield!

 

[iqqi]

Are you basically saying that women spinning plates is a bad thing?

Does this mean single men are also a myth?

 

[ketostix]

Are you basically saying that women spinning plates is a bad thing?

I'm saying women spin plates, so it is a bad thing to be a man thinking he is spining one plate and that she isn't out there cohorting with other males.

Does this mean single men are also a myth?

Well to a degree but not really. It's not as common for a man to have a woman devoted to him yet he "cheats" on her or doesn't wants to have anything to do with her because she's devoted. It does happen but for women to all have a man be devoted to her who she is not devoted to necessitates a contrast in male/female roles. What I'm saying is most "single" women have a man who is devoted to her and wouldn't not cheat on her, but few men really have a woman devoted to him. A woman would not be likely to cheat if she was really devoted to some man.

 

[iqqi]

What I'm saying is most "single" women have a man who is devoted to her and wouldn't not cheat on her.

Hmmm. I have to say this is not the truth for the people I know.

I know more women who have men in their lives who are devoted to getting the pvssy! But not really the girl.

And I know women who have interested men... but that is the natural order of things. The men aren't "devoted". Lol. And most women's men DO cheat on them. I only know of ONE person right now who MIGHT have a faithful man. <shrugs>.

So then what does single mean to you? Someone who has no interests or leads whatsoever? So because I went on a date a couple of nights ago... does that mean I am not *really* single?

Lol... what am I then??

And because I do actually have a man or two who wants a relationship... does that mean I am not single?

I am a myth?

I am legend!

 

[Mr.Positive]

I was in the czech republic years ago, and was short changed at an exchange rate booth. The guy was very good, did a slight of hand switch, and me, not speaking the language or familiar with the foreign currency, got taken. Much like an emotional woman...

My point is that this site, and the lessons taught and discussed has to be taken into account.

A lot guys here can push emotional buttons with women, much like the con artist, and get what they want. The "dj" techniques are very powerful, imo...and all ethics and morals (I know the difference now, thanks Latinoman)..

However, all ethics and morality aside. The decisions you MAKE, have outcomes.

The women you play, kino, attract, is on YOUR shoulders now, because you are out there armed with the knowledge here.

If you make a play for a married women, understand that it is possible that she could having marriage issues, but still in a loving family.

Understand, that she may be overly emotional at the time, and make a decision that she will regret for the rest of her life. A decision, the could wreck a home in one emotional overflowing bad decision.

People make decisions sometimes on emotions, in fact, we know women do this ALL the time. That's women.

All this for a little p*ssy.

I feel this needed to be said, because as mature men, we need to be responsible for the actions that we take in life.

We know, that our decisions can affect the lives of others. Do you spend you life taking? Or do you use what you've learned to better your life, and the lives of others around you?

That's your choice.

 

[DannykDJ]

I disagree with most of that. It's easy to feel bitter when you know there are people who are willing to take what's yours in life, but thats not the point. It doesn't matter how low those people are willing to go for short term self satisfaction. All that matters is that you are won't go down to their level as a way of fighting back. Having respect for yourself and a set of beliefs that you can be proud of and take honor in is much more important.

Two wrongs don't make a right. People that cheat are low quality scum. Force those people out of your life and surround yourself with quality people so that the low class low quality scum is forced to date other low class low quality scum. How would you feel if you knew someone was trying to get with your wife or gf? Would you respect a man that would do that? Would you respect a woman willing to fall for him? My advice to everyone is to not be that guy and not be with that kind of woman.

Just because the majority of people do something doesn't make it right. Lowering yourself to their level just to even the playing field only means that you are competing against garbage trying to win garbage.

 

[Señor Fingers]

The only mythology here is in the idea that opportunists somehow always sport a set of XX chromosomes - as if there was any difference in women finding richer husbands and men finding younger wives. Such drivel is laughable at best.

Honestly, all that's missing in the Mature Man's forum is a thread entitled "She Farts!!!" followed by a 20-page tour-de-force filled with heated discussion over how and why women will fart on you! I mean COME ON folks.

Don't you realize how futile it is to cast people into molds before you even meet them? On and on you go, reinforcing the same beliefs and constructing such a massive wall around yourself. It's no wonder why LOVE remains the biggest myth in your life.

As far as the ethics involved, I really can't be mad at a dude who gets some easy poon from a girl that needs to be fuct properly. Some might say it's his civic duty to bang that booty. Fair play!

It isn't even about right or wrong. There is no universal code of honor other than the one you decide to follow yourself. In the end "morals" really boil down to preference.

What do I prefer?

A lot of things over a cheater, that's for sure. There is no thrill for me in someone who gives herself away so cheaply. To each his own though.

 

[RedPill]

If everyone would raise their fukking standards, both of themselves and of what they require in a relationship, all of this crap about biology vs belief, integrity vs. instinct, and the adversarial dynamics of the mating game would become IRRELEVANT.

The problem that I think most people - men and women - have with finding a suitable mate they can both trust and click with is that most people HEAVILY over-inflate their value in the marketplace of sexual selection. They over-estimate their social abilities, their inner confidence, and their physical attractiveness to the opposite sex. They also over-project their uniqueness and their societal influence.

Guys who are perhaps in the 70th percentile of marketability - slightly above average but still well within the confines of mediocrity - think they possess the qualities of a champion. Winning takes place on the margin. If you want a woman with the beauty of a model, a golden personality, and the faithfulness of a nun - a woman of exceptional value - you'd damn well better have the value as a man to match hers. Men who overinflate their masculine value are no different, and no less common than the fattie who feels that her navel piercing will somehow offset her repulsive muffin top on the scale of attractiveness.

The game only becomes adversarial when one effectively lacks the value to command the respect of their partners, and thus the ability to replace them readily with an option of similar value should they fall short of the standard required of them. If you knew on a fundamental level that you could give your HB8 the boot at the slightest instance of disrespect because most HB8's would kill to have a man of your value, that's when the game-playing, the drama, the flakiness, and the other BS disappears. It disappears since it's implicitly understood by both parties that, because of your value, you don't have to tolerate it.

Men of substance stop playing percentages and they don't swim in the sea of mediocrity. Does LeBron James go play a pickup game at the park and then b1tch about how unskilled and out of shape his teammates are? Does Warren Buffett spend his time hanging out at the soup kitchen complaining about 'The Man' coming to rip away his fortune? Does Eric Clapton do gigs with a bunch of hippie burnouts and then gripe about how nobody has musical talent anymore?

I would encourage anyone who thinks finding "quality women" is tough to become more self-aware of their capacity to attract, more self-accountable for increasing that capacity, and most importantly, stop associating with those who aren't winners. Again, winners win on the margin. Winners have value because their set of personal qualities is scarce. Winners have high standards.

Raise the standard.

 

[ketostix]

Hmmm. I have to say this is not the truth for the people I know.

I know more women who have men in their lives who are devoted to getting the pvssy! But not really the girl.

And I know women who have interested men... but that is the natural order of things. The men aren't "devoted". Lol. And most women's men DO cheat on them. I only know of ONE person right now who MIGHT have a faithful man. <shrugs>.

So then what does single mean to you? Someone who has no interests or leads whatsoever? So because I went on a date a couple of nights ago... does that mean I am not *really* single?

Lol... what am I then??

And because I do actually have a man or two who wants a relationship... does that mean I am not single?

I am a myth?

I am legend!

I can see that you want to show your a*s and sh1t in this thread. What I'm saying is any female or male who is not devoted and commited to someone regardless of their their title is effectively single. And despite a title of "single" most women (and men too since iqqi is obsessed about gender equality) have someone devoted to them, but aren't devoted to him. So for all intents and purposes despite titles they are all "single". The "myth of the single woman" could be retitled the "myth of the married woman (or girlfriend)".

 

[ketostix]

I disagree with most of that. It's easy to feel bitter when you know there are people who are willing to take what's yours in life, but thats not the point. It doesn't matter how low those people are willing to go for short term self satisfaction. All that matters is that you are won't go down to their level as a way of fighting back. Having respect for yourself and a set of beliefs that you can be proud of and take honor in is much more important.

Two wrongs don't make a right. People that cheat are low quality scum. Force those people out of your life and surround yourself with quality people so that the low class low quality scum is forced to date other low class low quality scum. How would you feel if you knew someone was trying to get with your wife or gf? Would you respect a man that would do that? Would you respect a woman willing to fall for him? My advice to everyone is to not be that guy and not be with that kind of woman.

Just because the majority of people do something doesn't make it right. Lowering yourself to their level just to even the playing field only means that you are competing against garbage trying to win garbage.

I never said it was right or wrong. I don't agree with outsourcing for example. But if I'm GM I better outsource and do as my competitor do or I'll go out of business.

 

[ketostix]

The only mythology here is in the idea that opportunists somehow always sport a set of XX chromosomes - as if there was any difference in women finding richer husbands and men finding younger wives. Such drivel is laughable at best.

Where did I say that men don't cheat on their wives and GFs and sometimes with other guys' wives and GF's? Oh that's right, I did say that. Your scenario of an older wealthy man and a younger woman is not here or there.

 

[Warrior74]

If everyone would raise their fukking standards, both of themselves and of what they require in a relationship, all of this crap about biology vs belief, integrity vs. instinct, and the adversarial dynamics of the mating game would become IRRELEVANT.

The problem that I think most people - men and women - have with finding a suitable mate they can both trust and click with is that most people HEAVILY over-inflate their value in the marketplace of sexual selection. They over-estimate their social abilities, their inner confidence, and their physical attractiveness to the opposite sex. They also over-project their uniqueness and their societal influence.

Guys who are perhaps in the 70th percentile of marketability - slightly above average but still well within the confines of mediocrity - think they possess the qualities of a champion. Winning takes place on the margin. If you want a woman with the beauty of a model, a golden personality, and the faithfulness of a nun - a woman of exceptional value - you'd damn well better have the value as a man to match hers. Men who overinflate their masculine value are no different, and no less common than the fattie who feels that her navel piercing will somehow offset her repulsive muffin top on the scale of attractiveness.

The game only becomes adversarial when one effectively lacks the value to command the respect of their partners, and thus the ability to replace them readily with an option of similar value should they fall short of the standard required of them. If you knew on a fundamental level that you could give your HB8 the boot at the slightest instance of disrespect because most HB8's would kill to have a man of your value, that's when the game-playing, the drama, the flakiness, and the other BS disappears. It disappears since it's implicitly understood by both parties that, because of your value, you don't have to tolerate it.

Men of substance stop playing percentages and they don't swim in the sea of mediocrity. Does LeBron James go play a pickup game at the park and then b1tch about how unskilled and out of shape his teammates are? Does Warren Buffett spend his time hanging out at the soup kitchen complaining about 'The Man' coming to rip away his fortune? Does Eric Clapton do gigs with a bunch of hippie burnouts and then gripe about how nobody has musical talent anymore?

I would encourage anyone who thinks finding "quality women" is tough to become more self-aware of their capacity to attract, more self-accountable for increasing that capacity, and most importantly, stop associating with those who aren't winners. Again, winners win on the margin. Winners have value because their set of personal qualities is scarce. Winners have high standards.

Raise the standard.

interesting post.

 

[STR8UP]

If a girl is committed to her man she will not cheat. She will also take significant strides to reduce or completely diminish her interaction with other men.

This goes without saying. But the point is, for a woman to remain committed she has to feel the high. If you slack off (according to her ideal) her commitment level will drop proportionately. Most guys go into a relationship thinking they won the race, when in reality it has just begun.

let me remind everyone its not just physical infedility but also emotional infedelity....thats many girls are never single cuz they still talk to guys there attracted to and ready to hop at pleasure

Like a lioness scanning the horizon for her next meal....

Does this mean single men are also a myth?

Men generally go into a relationship and put their blinders on. Women take theirs off as soon as the honeymoon phase is over and they begin to lose the spark. Men cheat to get a piece of ass. Women cheat to fill a perceived "need".

A lot guys here can push emotional buttons with women, much like the con artist, and get what they want. The "dj" techniques are very powerful, imo...and all ethics and morals (I know the difference now, thanks Latinoman)..

However, all ethics and morality aside. The decisions you MAKE, have outcomes.

The women you play, kino, attract, is on YOUR shoulders now, because you are out there armed with the knowledge here.

If you make a play for a married women, understand that it is possible that she could having marriage issues, but still in a loving family.

Understand, that she may be overly emotional at the time, and make a decision that she will regret for the rest of her life. A decision, the could wreck a home in one emotional overflowing bad decision.

So it is ok for a "natural" who is unaware of his actions and motives, but not a person who is conscious of them?

And talking about a woman possibly being "overly emotional" doesn't fly.

In every case which I am aware, it has been the woman SEEKING OUT intimacy from another source. Most men (including myself) do not pursue married women.

Most of the time married women aren't just out to fukk, like a married man would be. They are seeking an EMOTIONAL connection over and above anything. Sex is simply a result of the overflowing emotions when she feels as
though she has made that connection, possibly for the first time in years.

The chick from last weekend.....before she jumped me at my friends house, she spent some time asking me all sorts of qualifying questions. She wasn't looking for a cheap thrill, she is looking for a potential branch.

Don't you realize how futile it is to cast people into molds before you even meet them? On and on you go, reinforcing the same beliefs and constructing such a massive wall around yourself. It's no wonder why LOVE remains the biggest myth in your life.

Some might say this stuff is negative, or that one should not generalize.

Have these discussions changed me for the better or for worse?

They have definitely made me more cautious. Sometimes I wonder if it would be better in certain circumstances to be blissfully ignorant, and just go with the flow. But all in all, I believe that I am a better person for trying to see it for what it is.

I don't look at all women as cheating ho's. I look at all women as having the potential to be a cheater, given the right set of circumstances. Knowing the circumstances and women's motives gives me a better perspective for dealing with them.

The game only becomes adversarial when one effectively lacks the value to command the respect of their partners, and thus the ability to replace them readily with an option of similar value should they fall short of the standard required of them. If you knew on a fundamental level that you could give your HB8 the boot at the slightest instance of disrespect because most HB8's would kill to have a man of your value, that's when the game-playing, the drama, the flakiness, and the other BS disappears. It disappears since it's implicitly understood by both parties that, because of your value, you don't have to tolerate it.

That's all good and fine, but it's easier said than done.

Most relationships become adversarial because there is a tug of war over who has the higher value at some point in the game.

The sad fact is that with feminism and gender role reversal, us men will NEVER be able to relax inside of the confines of a relationship, not nearly as much as men used to be able to anyway. Today's woman is has everything so bassackward cause she bought the whole "you can have EVERYTHING!" bit hook, line, and sinker.

As soon as a woman thinks she is "missing something" she starts to push. Then the man is constantly forced to push back. It's no longer a mutually beneficial arrangement, but a contest for the woman to fulfill her fantasy romantic life and have a great career, woohoo!, and the man threatened by this "competition" to the point where it becomes very difficult to have a relationship.

I never said it was right or wrong. I don't agree with outsourcing for example. But if I'm GM I better outsource and do as my competitor do or I'll go out of business.

And this is where so many guys go wrong. They buy into the chick notion that relationships are all magical and they should always be WONDERFUL, when in reality it's a cutthroat business where you are competing with other men to attract a woman, and then with the woman to keep her attention.

Way back when I bought into the whole "you gotta play by the rules" bit, but then I began to realize that the rules are there to make things LOOK pretty, when in reality they are anything but.

 

[Mr.Positive]

So it is ok for a "natural" who is unaware of his actions and motives, but not a person who is conscious of them?

And talking about a woman possibly being "overly emotional" doesn't fly.

In every case which I am aware, it has been the woman SEEKING OUT intimacy from another source. Most men (including myself) do not pursue married women.

A "natural" who is unaware of his actions is not a man. This is a weak person who will bend when pressured, who will fold, when strength is needed most.

My point was not towards your situation str8up, I followed that thread, but didn't post. It was obvious in your case, the woman was seeking to cheat.

I'm not judging that, she was a person of low character. My question was unanswered though.

How will you look this woman's husband in the eye when you meet him?

I only ask that, because for myself, my personal morals is something I hold so valuable, to myself, I'd sooner die than compromise them..and if I did compromise them, I couldn't look that person in the eye.

As long as YOU can sleep easy at night, is my only concern.

Regardless, my post was just to make a point that our actions, and the decisions we make, have outcomes.

It was for men to think, before pursueing a married woman, and then try to justify it like Keto by saying that all women are available, etc.

Single women are available, married women have a legal contract. I'm not going to repeat Latinoman's point again.

When a married woman's legal contract is broken, it's the man, often unaware, that really suffers.

Just something to thing about. Our actions do have consequences that often do not affect us.