The Lost Art

[BeExcellent]

My friend in Vegas who is my same age (54) bangs mostly hot women 22-25. He’s 5’8 and has a bit of a dad bod. But he’s got a cherubic face, rapier wit, 160+ IQ and the best IDGAF game you’ve ever seen.

He’s also naturally aloof so that helps a great deal. Young women chase him. He’s like “Whatev” and gets this mischievous smirk, lol.

 

[Smooth_texter]

So to get this straight you’re saying that a 50 year old cannot bed a 20-something that’s attractive?

just checking

I am saying that most average 50+ year old men cannot bed a 20 something woman (especially an attractive one).

In order for a man that age to do so, he has to be noticeably higher value than her average suitor, and also have to have the looks.

 

[Smooth_texter]

He’s a grandfather. He dates women in their 50s and up. He’s not interested at all in women who are 20s & 30s. He thinks they are too inexperienced and stupid. He wants nothing to do with women who have young children either. He’s a very classy man. Sophisticated and frankly a bit of an intellectual snob. He designed the flight simulator for the carrier landings for one of the fighter planes (If I said which country and which plane it might ID him so I’ll not disclose that). So yeah. He needs a highly intelligent woman who is attractive. I am going to introduce him to a girlfriend of mine who meets his criteria. Perhaps they’ll hit it off.

He sounds like he has status and a decent net worth (being an accomplished engineer and inventor).

Are those women attracted purely to his charm and game, or just to the above qualities?

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

I no longer hunt in that market, but i have and was successful in my late 40’s (receipts available).

I appreciate a 35-45 year old much better than a child.

I am saying that most average 50+ year old men cannot bed a 20 something woman (especially an attractive one).

In order for a man that age to do so, he has to be noticeably higher value than her average suitor, and also have to have the looks.

 

[BeExcellent]

He sounds like he has status and a decent net worth (being an accomplished engineer and inventor).

Are those women attracted purely to his charm and game, or just to the above qualities?

Why does it matter? He is successful. Hence why he is dismissive of gold diggers. He only dates women who are genuine, and obviously as a high net worth individual he screens for that.

Many of your posts appear to have a “Yeah, BUT this or that” component to them. Instead of focusing on what your faulty belief system tells you (because it is rooted in your own lack of experience or success or both) about others, adjust your focus to yourself. Are you regularly bedding the hot 22-25 year old woman? If not, why not? Work on that rather than trying to poke holes in the success others experience.

Your belief system has zero bearing on my reality for example. Your belief system has zero bearing on the reality of my friend in Las Vegas, the engineer friend, the success of @AmsterdamAssassin or @Pierce.Manhammer. Quit finding whatever excuse for the success of others. I mean why do you care what appeals to me (a 54yo woman) at all? I am 20 years older than you, a full generation, and you nor ANY other 30 something man has any appeal to me whatsoever, no matter how handsome, no matter how rich. You’d be a man-child to me and I’d never be able to defer to you based on my own successes and life experiences.

But I encourage you to improve yourself, better yourself, develop yourself so you are attractive to your target market segment. What I or others do doesn’t matter. If you are invisible to your target dating market you have work to do on yourself.

Quit making the fact that my husband is handsome, as an example your excuse. That tells me you feel “less than” or unattractive somehow and that is your excuse for failure.

That is first and foremost a bad attitude. Nothing repels people like a bad or negative attitude. That comes out in your vibe. Work first on that and who cares what anyone else does.

 

[typical]

At some point in any mans interaction with ANY women, the woman is going to make a logical or illogical judgement on "What does this guy bring to the table". AS long as you can fulfill this "Security vs Insecurity" equation youre going to either be able to get a lay/plate/ltr depends on how your interaction with said woman has been.

This brings in the whole Hypergamy and Gold digger and looking for a stable provider arguement. You as the "Man" in this "situation" need to decide if this exchange is ideal for you or not !!! Remember the only woman that truly loves you for you is your mother so stop looking for unicorns that "Love me for me" type of rubbish.

Relationships/situationships all come down to what both parties (Or multiple parties) bring to the table AND have I got the emotional and mental capacty to deal with their "****" and their "attitude" to get sex/friendship/companionship/partner for life etc.

Just because one person says they are successfull (in whatever capacity) doesn't mean you take their word as gospel NOR does it mean they are full of "****e". Break down what they are saying and see if applying some or all of their ideas works for you or not !!!

If something works for you awesome keep that idea and stay on track to self improvement because anyone that stays stagnant in this world becomes a boring loser quickly. Success in life and with women isn't a destination !!!! Get this through your thick heads. It's a journey which requires multiple skills and the ability to adapt on the fly !!! If this is too hard for you then settle with the next semi decent person that comes your way and be part of the average population !!!

All this BS excuses of "But he has" or "She is like this" or the number of other excuses people spout off are simply their own insecurities or their own inteliigence admitting they are not up to that level or ability to do the same !!!

Choose what success looks like to you and work towards it OR settle for being mediorce and keep making lame excuses. In the end the system is not the failure the man is !!!

If there are old men bedding the young 18-28 year old model women that (in your mind) they shouldn't be able to, it boils down to be a "YOU" problem. A problem that applies to only you because deep down you know you haven't got the "Insert value important to you" to be able to do the same. Thats a problem you need to fix.

 

[SargeMaximus]

I’ve had women tell me I’m so good at conversation… women I never slept with nor saw ever again. I had a woman tell me we were such a good match after sex only to never see her again. So I don’t believe anything women say anymore. They could say the sky is blue and I’d roll my eyes

 

[The Duke]

No, but similar. I'm cuter.

Love it! Lol

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I’ve had women tell me I’m so good at conversation… women I never slept with nor saw ever again. I had a woman tell me we were such a good match after sex only to never see her again. So I don’t believe anything women say anymore. They could say the sky is blue and I’d roll my eyes

It's not about believing anything a woman says - I never take anything a woman says at face value, women rarely say what they mean, but I was educated in indirect communication and manipulation, so I home in on the essence of the communication and don't get sidetracked (which is also why women with C-PTSD issues come to talk with me).

In a sense, women are more interesting for me to converse with (yes, yes, blasphemy) than most men because women rarely communicate directly, whereas conversations with men are direct and straight to the point. Since women cannot use force to get men to do what they want, they will use words and s3x. If you're impervious to their words and you've had enough s3x to not be swayed by the promise of nights in white satin, women in general are at a loss on how to proceed and they will gladly follow your lead.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

i'd pay good money to go out for a night in my town with Ross jefferies and see if he really could bang my ideal young girls (18 year old model looking girls) without fail. I think it'd be a brutal blood bath of rejection all night long despite his 'game'. (same as many other people whose posts I see)
Seems to be a whole new level of delusion on here recently lol
View attachment 10942

I met him about 5 years ago. He looks nothing like this picture any more. He’s an out of shape old man.

In my opinion, younger women would find him either creepy or put him into the “isn’t it cute, that old grandpa flirting with me” category.

However, he is intelligent, an excellent conversationalist, and has a persuasive personality. I believe those traits are why he has been able to attract women.

-Augustus-

 

[SW15]

i'd pay good money to go out for a night in my town with Ross jefferies and see if he really could bang my ideal young girls (18 year old model looking girls) without fail. I think it'd be a brutal blood bath of rejection all night long despite his 'game'. (same as many other people whose posts I see)
Seems to be a whole new level of delusion on here recently lol
View attachment 10942

I met him about 5 years ago. He looks nothing like this picture any more. He’s an out of shape old man.

In my opinion, younger women would find him either creepy or put him into the “isn’t it cute, that old grandpa flirting with me” category.

However, he is intelligent, an excellent conversationalist, and has a persuasive personality. I believe those traits are why he has been able to attract women.

Ross Jeffries is now 65 years old. He would have a difficult time right now getting women under 50, and that's even if he were in good shape. Ross has never been facially handsome and has been dweebish for a while. The video below is from 1992, when he was 34. He doesn't have the vibe of a classicly handsome seducer even then.

Ross Jeffries would have had to done most of his seductions based upon personality because he's been lacking in looks.

 

[Smooth_texter]

I no longer hunt in that market, but i have and was successful in my late 40’s (receipts available).

I appreciate a 35-45 year old much better than a child.

You most likely did.

My point is most 45+ average men will have trouble pulling women 10 or more years younger. By default, most men on Sosuave are not average, even by just knowing red and black pill principles.

Average men do not research such topics and stop improving after a certain age.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

I do agree that most men my age cannot hold a finger up to me. And of course i think I’m billy basarse, but the truth is we’re more alike than disalike.

Given most on the men on this board, with the exception of the black pills and incels, have figured out how to be outliers I think we might say “the AFC” instead of “men” in general.

You most likely did.

My point is most 45+ average men will have trouble pulling women 10 or more years younger. By default, most men on Sosuave are not average, even by just knowing red and black pill principles.

Average men do not research such topics and stop improving after a certain age.

 

[Smooth_texter]

Why does it matter? He is successful. Hence why he is dismissive of gold diggers. He only dates women who are genuine, and obviously as a high net worth individual he screens for that.

Many of your posts appear to have a “Yeah, BUT this or that” component to them. Instead of focusing on what your faulty belief system tells you (because it is rooted in your own lack of experience or success or both) about others, adjust your focus to yourself. Are you regularly bedding the hot 22-25 year old woman? If not, why not? Work on that rather than trying to poke holes in the success others experience.

Your belief system has zero bearing on my reality for example. Your belief system has zero bearing on the reality of my friend in Las Vegas, the engineer friend, the success of @AmsterdamAssassin or @Pierce.Manhammer. Quit finding whatever excuse for the success of others. I mean why do you care what appeals to me (a 54yo woman) at all? I am 20 years older than you, a full generation, and you nor ANY other 30 something man has any appeal to me whatsoever, no matter how handsome, no matter how rich. You’d be a man-child to me and I’d never be able to defer to you based on my own successes and life experiences.

But I encourage you to improve yourself, better yourself, develop yourself so you are attractive to your target market segment. What I or others do doesn’t matter. If you are invisible to your target dating market you have work to do on yourself.

Quit making the fact that my husband is handsome, as an example your excuse. That tells me you feel “less than” or unattractive somehow and that is your excuse for failure.

That is first and foremost a bad attitude. Nothing repels people like a bad or negative attitude. That comes out in your vibe. Work first on that and who cares what anyone else does.

My point is simple.

The thread implies that a man can seduce women based on conversation skills alone (aka GAME™), and that most young men (under 35) no longer have those skills. Thus older men are better at seducing. The example that you have brought up refutes that.

Your 75 year old friend who is an accomplished inventor, with a decent net worth and an interesting person, and conversationalist - was rejected by both you and your girlfriend based on age gap alone.

Therefore "GAME" in the grand scheme of things has little impact on seducing (of course a man shouldn't lack it or be socially unaware). I have also found this to be true in my experience.

P.S. I am improving myself constantly and I am above average in almost all areas, but attraction at first is built on looks. And my hair loss in my late 20s reduced greatly my SMV and dating pool, despite the other improvements. So my experience is that conversation alone does not do much for a woman that is not attracted, and career and other accomplishments would only get you so far.

 

[BeExcellent]

My point is simple.

The thread implies that a man can seduce women based on conversation skills alone (aka GAME™), and that most young men (under 35) no longer have those skills. Thus older men are better at seducing. The example that you have brought up refutes that.

Your 75 year old friend who is an accomplished inventor, with a decent net worth and an interesting person, and conversationalist - was rejected by both you and your girlfriend based on age gap alone.

Therefore "GAME" in the grand scheme of things has little impact on seducing (of course a man shouldn't lack it or be socially unaware). I have also found this to be true in my experience.

P.S. I am improving myself constantly and I am above average in almost all areas, but attraction at first is built on looks. And my hair loss in my late 20s reduced greatly my SMV and dating pool, despite the other improvements. So my experience is that conversation alone does not do much for a woman that is not attracted.

What you don’t seem to grasp @Smooth_texter is that my friend who is an ex fashion model (and still very thin, stylish and beautiful at 60) and myself (who just married a very handsome and accomplished man who is 8 years younger than me), we are not an accurate representation of women in our age group. At all. Jennifer Lopez and Jennifer Anniston, who are both mid 50s as well, would also never give my inventor/engineer friend the time of day either.

But there are plenty of women around 50 who would. Can’t blame him for having interest of course, but two women who are outliers do not represent the group as a whole, so it is unsound to say ALL women in their 50s would reject him. That far from accurate and frankly is unsound logic.

That same faulty logic would say that my husband would never has chosen me either, but here we are (he’s sitting right next to me.)

I know an Italian man who is pushing 80. His wife is 50 something and they are not partners from her youth. They are both active & attractive people, and he is quite charming.

There are bald and balding men around here who are doing just fine with women. But you can hide behind that as an excuse if you like. It’s something else, your beliefs.

As you believe so you are.

That is either good or bad news depending on your beliefs.

The generalizations used around here often break down because dating interactions occur between individuals not large populations.

For that reason the advice to be the best individual you can be is good advice. Y’all are not trying to date a large generalized population either, but rather individual women. All you need is one or a few who are into you. Who cares what generalizations say.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Your 75 year old friend who is an accomplished inventor, with a decent net worth and an interesting person, and conversationalist - was rejected by both you and your girlfriend based on age gap alone.

Therefore "GAME" in the grand scheme of things has little impact on seducing (of course a man shouldn't lack it or be socially unaware). I have also found this to be true in my experience.

No offense man but that is the weakest logical argument I've seen in a while.

One dude does not make a rule.

Any scientist who drew conclusions from one data point would be fired.

The main question is "can conversational skills overcome large age differences in seduction?"

I believe the answer is yes.

A corollary question would be "since younger modern men lack basic conversational skills, can older men with sufficient conversational skills out-seduce younger men?"

Again, I believe the answer is yes.

 

[Aristippus]

Hahaha. Ok. Amsterdam. I got mixed up on my math for a second when trying to convert cm into feet and had come to the conclusion that the average height in the Netherlands was 2.8 inches tall but that you were towering over everybody at a whopping 3 inches height. A regular Tom Thumb!

I finally got my math right and that would put the average height in the Netherlands at 6 ft with you being 6ft 2 inches.

 

[Aristippus]

Be Excellent asked Smooth: " So what? Is an ugly girl somehow going to charm you into an erection? "

Depends on how much alcohol is involved and whether or not she's a smooth talker. hahaha. If Colt 45 is involved then it's definitely game over!

The Power of Colt 45

Works Every Time

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Hahaha. Ok. Amsterdam. I got mixed up on my math for a second when trying to convert cm into feet and had come to the conclusion that the average height in the Netherlands was 2.8 inches tall but that you were towering over everybody at a whopping 3 inches height. A regular Tom Thumb!

I finally got my math right and that would put the average height in the Netherlands at 6 ft with you being 6ft 2 inches.

You gotta be tall in Holland if you don't want to drown.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

So what? Is an ugly girl somehow going to charm you into an erection?

This has happened to me. There are some girls who aren't my type physically but who know how to flirt well. However, doesn't mean I went for the bang. Maybe sometimes. Wellllll those files are sealed lol.