The Lost Art

[Millard Fillmore]

I date younger women and I often have to initiate conversations, but I do get them to talk. About themselves mostly.

A lot of young women are easy to talk to. The key is to filter for the ones who possess the art you mention. It's all about charm and some people just know how to engage it. I'm late 40s and have no problem with women more than half my age. There is a stereotype about Gen Z but charm and maturity transcends age, just depends on the individual.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Hahaha. Ok. Amsterdam. I got mixed up on my math for a second when trying to convert cm into feet and had come to the conclusion that the average height in the Netherlands was 2.8 inches tall but that you were towering over everybody at a whopping 3 inches height. A regular Tom Thumb!

I finally got my math right and that would put the average height in the Netherlands at 6 ft with you being 6ft 2 inches.

I'm glad you learned how to convert the metric system.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

You gotta be tall in Holland if you don't want to drown.

Hahahahahaha, you're hilarious. Never heard that one before. You should be a stand-up comedian. yawn

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

...charm and maturity transcends age, just depends on the individual.

The reason I call it the Lost Art is because a lot of younger men think charm is not necessary.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Ross Jeffries would have had to done most of his seductions based upon personality because he's been lacking in looks.

I think Ross is a trawler.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

The reason I call it the Lost Art is because a lot of younger men think charm is not necessary.

It used to be part of secondary curriculum way back when...sorely lacking any more.

Guys get sucked into young women's sarcasm/indifference frame but charm trumps all of that.

 

[SW15]

My point is most 45+ average men will have trouble pulling women 10 or more years younger. By default, most men on Sosuave are not average, even by just knowing red and black pill principles.

Average men do not research such topics and stop improving after a certain age.

It takes a lot to pull a woman 10+ years. Pulling a woman even 5-9 years younger is impressive. Most men have a girlfriend/wife 1-3 years younger. Most men in their 30s/40s are pussie beggars for similarly aged women. Even wealthy 30 something businessman Steven Cundari has an older girlfriend, Fox Sports' Charissa Thompson.

Attractive Charissa Thompson Getting Divorced for 2nd Time at Age 40 & is Childless

Charissa Thompson is a media personality. She has worked for ESPN and currently works for Fox Sports. She previously co-hosted the syndicated entertainment show Extra. This is Charissa. It's amazing that she has had a hot mess of a relationship history and no kids. In a previous era, this is...

www.sosuave.net

I think Ross is a trawler.

Ross made some good points in the 1992 video I posted. By the time I started getting into seduction in the 2000s, Ross Jeffries was already past his prime. Some of the people that I read had been influenced by him. Both Mystery and Neil Strauss have recognized his contributions to pickup and seduction.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Guys get sucked into young women's sarcasm/indifference frame but charm trumps all of that.

I found that if a woman is engaged in real conversation her mask of sarcasm/indifference slips.

 

[typical]

As you believe so you are.

Umm "Pook" is this you ??? Jokes aside funny how 20 years ago we had Pook say the exact same line "As you think so shall you become" and here we are August 2023 and another person who probably has never heard of pook pulls out the same exact thought process !!!

I am improving myself constantly and I am above average in almost all areas, but attraction at first is built on looks. And my hair loss in my late 20s reduced greatly my SMV and dating pool, despite the other improvements. So my experience is that conversation alone does not do much for a woman that is not attracted, and career and other accomplishments would only get you so far.

This is where you're making a cardinal error! You're projecting your thought process onto what women find attractive!

Yes "Looks" goes a long way BUT women are far more forgiving in the looks department if the man she is interacting with brings other attributes to the table. Hence why we still see guys that look average at best pulling gorgeous women all over the place!

Yes your initial interaction with most women might be hindered by your hair loss ............. news flash the vast majority of men have some level of hair loss by the time they hit 30 !!! This comes down to a belief system that is limiting your ability, and I can almost guarantee that you are sensitive about the topic AKA this is one of your insecurities that is holding you back and you have to actively engage that part of your brain and kill that feeling off. And I bet this hair loss issue comes across in your attitude (Vibe) and anyone that is clued up on social interactions would be able to pick up on the feeling of "Don't talk about Hair loss this guys sensitive about the topic .... what a drama queen !!!" This "Vibe" is probably what is killing your chances with most women.

Ask yourself Are you comfortable having your picture taken or do you avoid those at all costs ?, Your body language most likely changes when this topic comes up, and women read body language and gauge confidence by your actions and tone of voice over silly topics like this !

I've never seen any man that is well built from years of gym work, that owns his own property and has an established career and one that is "Game" aware struggle with women from any age bracket. I've met up with plenty of Sosuave members here in NZ and Australia and the States (Cali and Florida mainly) and the ones that "Got it" would be approaching and opening sets everywhere we went, theme parks night clubs middle of the day or 4am in the morning or 11pm waiting in line at some posh dance club !!! Didn't matter it was all about exposure and a numbers game and a IDGAF attitude, and probably the best set of wingmen you could ask for.

I can almost be 100% certain that no man has a pull rate of greater than 1 in 5 approaches .... unless they are an A list celebrity and even those I've seen crumble under the pressure of having to conversate with a hot woman !!!

EDIT : Your pull rate might be 1/5 aka 20% and your lay rate might also be 1/5 from every number you pull ... that's 1 lay for every 25 approaches and even that is a high success rate if your Game isn't tight !!! Once you've built your own lifestyle the success rate increases for me 1 can almost get a lay from every 2 or 3 approaches but this took over 15 years of building a lifestyle and mindset of what I wanted. Starting at 1/25 or even 1/50 isn't a bad spot to start from it just means you're going to have to actively approach and engage !!!

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Oh, I’m pretty sure @BeExcellent knows the book of Pook, and i’d wager that she’s read it, or at least scanned it.

Umm "Pook" is this you ??? Jokes aside funny how 20 years ago we had Pook say the exact same line "As you think so shall you become" and here we are August 2023 and another person who probably has never heard of pook pulls out the same exact thought process !!!

 

[itouchyou]

She asked me for my number, but I gave her my IG, told her she could sent me a PM without the need to follow my account.

Did her message go to your requests folder and did you even know when she sent it? I thought messages from people who you're not connected with are usually missed.

 

[The Duke]

Umm "Pook" is this you ??? Jokes aside funny how 20 years ago we had Pook say the exact same line "As you think so shall you become" and here we are August 2023 and another person who probably has never heard of pook pulls out the same exact thought process !!!



This is where you're making a cardinal error! You're projecting your thought process onto what women find attractive!

Yes "Looks" goes a long way BUT women are far more forgiving in the looks department if the man she is interacting with brings other attributes to the table. Hence why we still see guys that look average at best pulling gorgeous women all over the place!

Yes your initial interaction with most women might be hindered by your hair loss ............. news flash the vast majority of men have some level of hair loss by the time they hit 30 !!! This comes down to a belief system that is limiting your ability, and I can almost guarantee that you are sensitive about the topic AKA this is one of your insecurities that is holding you back and you have to actively engage that part of your brain and kill that feeling off. And I bet this hair loss issue comes across in your attitude (Vibe) and anyone that is clued up on social interactions would be able to pick up on the feeling of "Don't talk about Hair loss this guys sensitive about the topic .... what a drama queen !!!" This "Vibe" is probably what is killing your chances with most women.

Ask yourself Are you comfortable having your picture taken or do you avoid those at all costs ?, Your body language most likely changes when this topic comes up, and women read body language and gauge confidence by your actions and tone of voice over silly topics like this !

I've never seen any man that is well built from years of gym work, that owns his own property and has an established career and one that is "Game" aware struggle with women from any age bracket. I've met up with plenty of Sosuave members here in NZ and Australia and the States (Cali and Florida mainly) and the ones that "Got it" would be approaching and opening sets everywhere we went, theme parks night clubs middle of the day or 4am in the morning or 11pm waiting in line at some posh dance club !!! Didn't matter it was all about exposure and a numbers game and a IDGAF attitude, and probably the best set of wingmen you could ask for.

I can almost be 100% certain that no man has a pull rate of greater than 1 in 5 approaches .... unless they are an A list celebrity and even those I've seen crumble under the pressure of having to conversate with a hot woman !!!

EDIT : Your pull rate might be 1/5 aka 20% and your lay rate might also be 1/5 from every number you pull ... that's 1 lay for every 25 approaches and even that is a high success rate if your Game isn't tight !!! Once you've built your own lifestyle the success rate increases for me 1 can almost get a lay from every 2 or 3 approaches but this took over 15 years of building a lifestyle and mindset of what I wanted. Starting at 1/25 or even 1/50 isn't a bad spot to start from it just means you're going to have to actively approach and engage !!!

That's real world numbers and experience talking. These young cats need to do more listening and less spouting their half baked theories.

 

[BeExcellent]

The truism “As you believe so shall you become” is not originated by nor authored by Pook.

Variations of this have been attributed to Bruce Lee, Dr. Wayne Dyer and others. It’s not new.

And yes. Of course I am well familiar with Pook and find his writings hilarious and largely accurate. Woman ese just cracks me right up, lol.

This is the Law of Attraction. What you believe about yourself, about what you deserve, etc., it WILL manifest. That is why managing or discarding negative beliefs is so important.

Your subconscious does not care; it is amoral. It will reinforce the belief system it is given by its owner:

You.

 

[DonJuanjr]

I’ve had the occasional date with a handsome successful dolt with zero personality or “game”.

Can you explain what he was lacking, when he had zero game?

 

[BeExcellent]

Can you explain what he was lacking, when he had zero game?

Personality, conversation skills, social acumen/awareness, self confidence, wit. If someone is terribly uptight that is off putting. It comes in different flavors from socially awkward to conceit to plain old boring.

Im pretty intelligent so I need brainpower as well as someone who can banter or I’m going to run circles around him. No bueno.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Did her message go to your requests folder and did you even know when she sent it? I thought messages from people who you're not connected with are usually missed.

She messaged me thirty minutes after meeting me, but, yes, her message went into my 'request' folder, so I only found it hours later and reconfirmed how cool it was to meet her. Two days later she came over for coffee; I showed her my lair and she was curious about shibari, so we had a great afternoon and evening. She's due to come over tomorrow evening after work.

 

[typical]

That's real world numbers and experience talking. These young cats need to do more listening and less spouting their half baked theories.

I doubt if half these new lads have ever tried to talk to 5 different women each day at any point in their lives for a month straight !!! All theory, Zero real world testing !

And I might sound like a pr!ck here and might be beating a dead horse BUT after 15-30 approaches the amount you learn about people in general and the cliché "Dying Art of Conversation" is considerably more than reading all the pickup material in the world.

Any skill that you need to develop has to come from real world experience and often times the pain of hard lessons, theory only goes so far !

I see the OP has come back and modestly given us a "lay report" and plans in the next few days, fu(king brilliant news !!!!
Now if we break it down like nerds it opens the pathway for multiple outcomes for the OP depending on what he wants and what the woman wants, from just friends with benefits to companionship to even marriage if he and the woman choose too. The man and arguably the woman are winning !!!

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

The thread implies that a man can seduce women based on conversation skills alone (aka GAME™), and that most young men (under 35) no longer have those skills. Thus older men are better at seducing. The example that you have brought up refutes that.

No, I don't imply conversation skills alone are enough, but I'm saying that younger women tell me that they enjoy conversing with me and not with younger men, because these younger men lack conversational skills.

I found that a lot of men on SS are concentrating on their appearance (which is good) but don't know how to converse with women once they have attracted their attention with their appearance.

So if a younger man has good conversational skills, he will slay more than someone who thinks he can smash because he's shredded from the gym. Or drives an expensive car and sports an expensive watch, which in my opinion only attracts the gold-digger type who is looking for someone who will fund her extravagant lap of luxury lifestyle.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I see the OP has come back and modestly given us a "lay report" and plans in the next few days, fu(king brilliant news !!!!

Well, she joined my shibari harem, which is what I intended for her, so everything goes well.

 

[obelisk]

What is the value in analysis against the guys who are average and the 80%? The deadwood whose failure is a foregone conclusion aren't really going to give you actionable intel for improvement. Some of the comments feel like they're drawing conclusion using too broad a sample size. You want to be judging yourself against the guys who are getting results to understand where and why you're not in that category.

The reason we focus on looksmaxxing is because it's less threatening then actually approaching a women and talking to her. However, physical attractiveness along with purpose are what bring innate value to your life regardless of the women you let into it. Attractive people do get treated different in life by both men and women and it's a good investment to max them to enhance your life for yourself.

If you can't converse and lead a conversation then how do you expect success once you get a women out in person? The only point of OLD is to eventually meet her in person. A lot of men and women are also boring. They don't have any hobbies or interests that they are passionate about either. The curse of social media.