The Girl: Exclusivity = SEX

[Max Power]

I agree with Max Power.

You are a very, very intelligent individual

But.

Oh oh

You guys have to remember. LTR's shouldn't be thought of in a negative way.

If you find a quality girl, then there is nothing wrong with holding onto her.

LTR Doesn't = Oneitis.

I agree, but this thread isn't "So I want to get into a LTR." It's "This girl i haven't had sex with is withholding sex until I commit to a LTR."

That's a big difference.

I really feel for Dash here cause he likes this girl and does want an LTR but is cognizent of the power struggle at play here.

Like most threads here I know how this will end up. The OP will ignore the consensus of the board and go ahead and do his own thing anyway. He will disappear for a while and then resurface a few months later with a thread like "GF showing low interest." or something.

However, even if Dash does go ahead with this at least he's 90 per cent ahead of the average AFC out there who just woulda agreed right on the spot.

 

[Holland]

My questions is this:

How do I tell her I'll be exclusive with her w/o sounding like an AFC or like I'm giving in to her?

Don't. Lay her first.
Don't get into her logic BS and just get her turned up to the point she'll start ****-closing you.

Dont start screwing up now by giving your power away, have sex first, consider having a LTR later if you really like her, not after a couple dates.

you are right, but you are missing the big picture


A GIRL THAT HOLDS SEX OVER YOUR HEAD IS NOT A QUALITY FEMALE!

she is screaming "this is the **** you have to look forward to if you date me"

lol, what do you think... she is going to flip the attraction switch when you have been dating for a year? please.

WORD!

BTW: Don't listen to Lovelylady. She has no idea about social dynamics and building a healthy relationship for both the man and the woman. Maybe it's true and this chick really just wanted some safety before they have sex, because she's afraid to get hurt. But the chances are slim (especially since she's a pretty good catch according to OP) Add to that the fact that a symbol of GF/BF doesn't provide safety/comfort. Sending out comfortable vibes, rapport and intimacy do that.
It's better for him to just give her good sex and than get into a LTR with her if things keep rolling smoothly.
He won't be doing her a favor by letting her control him with sex.
He will be doing her a favor with giving her great sex, loving the woman and knowing she has nothing to worry about because he is a man who is able to provide her with all the needs she has (including safety and comfort).

 

[LovelyLady]

Maybe it's true and this chick really just wanted some safety before they have sex, because she's afraid to get hurt.

The kind of safety I am referring to is not a false sense of safety/guarantee that she (or he) is not going to be hurt. There is no such guarantee. That risk is understood, and for anyone who has been truly wounded to their core by someone they love, also knows the value of requiring a mutual agreement for creating an environment in which genuine loving can occur - for both people in the relationship, that is exclusivity in the area of sexual relations.

There is a level of genuine loving, vulnerability for both people, and intimacy that I have found only occurs when there is a commitment to only share that level of passion with each other: a passion that is beyond just a physical romp. A level ofemotional and spiritual connections that occurs with true true love making. It is not about a power struggle, power over, witholding, - but of mutual giving, generosity, trust, respect, frolic, humor, ecstacy, raunchiness, play, affection, tenderness, compassion, desire, and a myriad of unnamable dynamics that make taking the risk of being hurt worth it.

And we women who love this way are also more than willing to pass on sex with the man if he doesn't "get" that, or want to honor it with a commitment to only explore those depths of exclusively with eachother.

 

[Max Power]

There is a level of genuine loving, vulnerability for both people, and intimacy that I have found only occurs when there is a commitment to only share that level of passion with each other: a passion that is beyond just a physical romp. A level ofemotional and spiritual connections that occurs with true true love making. It is not about a power struggle, power over, witholding, - but of mutual giving, generosity, trust, respect, frolic, humor, ecstacy, raunchiness, play, affection, tenderness, compassion, desire, and a myriad of unnamable dynamics that make taking the risk of being hurt worth it.

And we women who love this way are also more than willing to pass on sex with the man if he doesn't "get" that, or want to honor it with a commitment to only explore those depths of exclusively with eachother.

So it's a power struggle then.

 

[LovelyLady]

So it's a power struggle then.

Power struggle how? If it is in the sense that she understands he and she both have the power to create an environment within thier relationship to create more than a casual fling - and she is voicing tis - how is that power over? Exclusivity doesn't disempower anyone in a good relationship, but rather serves to empower both people individually and the relationship itself.

Now, she may have other reasons for wanting exclusivity, (which is why I suggested communicating with her - and if you can't talk about your relationship with the actual person you are in the relationship with - what is that all about? - I don't even know...) perhaps STD concerns ... or ??) I don't know. But my experience with talks with friends and my own personal experience, the desire for exclusivity does not stem from wanting to establish control/power in the relationship.

 

[LovelyLady]

Or the power and self-control for her to walk away if the man is not functioning at the same level in the relationship as she is? Doesn't a woman have the same right as a man to "next" someone if he doesn't have standards/values that she has? Finding a guy to have sex with as a casual romp basicly means walking next door for most of us - sheesh. Finding a man we want to make a commitment to - and commit to us - is a rarity.

 

[Dash Riprock]

I started this post. Some good words here on a common issue.

Let me give a few more details about The Girl and I:

- She's 31 so most likely beyond the point of extreme immaturity as to what she is looking for in a man
- We’ve dated for a month--all action dates, lot’s of fun, humor w/ limited contact between dates--as is my MO
- After dating a lot of women (I'm in my 30's), I can easily separate the possible LTR winners form the LTR losers; she is a LTR winner (I've found maybe 5% of women fit what I'm really looking for as I DO have high standards--and she knows this)

We must remember that men and women are WIRED (subconsciously) differently.

Women LOOK for stability, security, faithful companions, etc.—not a big **** in LTRs, because they have a NESTING mentality--it's mere evolution. You cannot expect a woman to act like a man in terms of sex. And the ones that do, aren’t worth my LTR efforts because they’re usually *****s or sluts with big psychological issues.

So, I'm NOT surprised that:
1- She likes what she has (me) and wants to have an exclusive LTR; based on how I’ve played things for the past month
2- She is acting like a woman should when dating reaches a certain point; much attraction, fun, excitement, good communication, etc. Once again, all my MO
3- Not having sex with me for "fun" (a wiring thing once again--sure sex IS fun for women but other issues ARE MORE important to them in a man)-she’s protecting herself against getting hurt and as she put it, “I don’t want to get attached to you if we’re not exclusive.” LovelyLady knows her sh** here.

As LovelyLady mentioned, there are few QUALITY men out there--I know because I compete against them every day and beat their asses for women by following a few simple rules. It's almost too f-ing easy these days because >95% of all guys ARE AFCs or just plain clueless. Even men in their 30’s and 40’s – maybe even worse here. Ask any DJ about this.

My issue is/was AGREEING to a LTR with her w/o having it seemed like she called the shot (she may have BROUGHT IT UP first, but I HAVE the FINAL say on YES or NO—she asked me to have a LTR, I’m not asking her—I don’t think I’ve compromised control here).

The more I read these posts and think about it, the more I don't give a ***k and will just tell her, "I'm cool with that..." and then say something c&f to maintain game and control.

Gracias.

Dash

 

[Max Power]

Let me give a few more details about The Girl and I:

- She's 31 so most likely beyond the point of extreme immaturity as to what she is looking for in a man
- We’ve dated for a month--all action dates, lot’s of fun, humor w/ limited contact between dates--as is my MO

This information doesn't change my assessment of the situtation.

- After dating 100's of women (I'm in my 30's), I can easily separate the possible LTR winners form the LTR losers; she is a LTR winner (I've found maybe 5% of women fit what I'm really looking for as I DO have high standards--and she knows this)

Sounds like you put her on a pedastal.

We must remember that men and women are WIRED (subconsciously) differently.... LovelyLady knows her sh** here.

Well why did you come to a men's a forum for advice then? You've had 10 guys and a woman respond to your question and nine out of 10 of them told you not to do it. But instead you listen to the one in 10 that say yes and a female. Sounds to me like LovelyLady is telling you what you want to hear and you're only listening to what you want to hear.

My issue is/was AGREEING to a LTR with her w/o having it seemed like she called the shot

Not really. Read the title of the thread. The issue here is she won't have sex with you unless you commit to a LTR. She's creating a huge hoop for you to jump through.

(she may have BROUGHT IT UP first, but I HAVE the FINAL say on YES or NO—she asked me to have a LTR, I’m not asking her—I don’t think I’ve compromised control here).

You have final say? You're in control? Okay then, tell her, "I won't commit to an LTR with you unless you have sex with me and it has to be loud and good." Then I'd say you're in control.

The more I read these posts and think about it, the more I don't give a ***k and will just tell her, "I'm cool with that..." and then say something c&f to maintain game and control.

Alright good luck. You know the situation and the relationship dynamic way better than we do, so you're the best judge and it's your life. And at least you had the balls to post this here. I'm just giving you an objective opinion. And I hope it works out for you. Keep us updated on this.

 

[LovelyLady]

Not really. Read the title of the thread. The issue here is she won't have sex with you unless you commit to a LTR. She's creating a huge hoop for you to jump through.

I thought the issue was how he would agree to being exclusive with her, without giving up "manliness" ie: sacrificing everything he has worked so hard to build for himself - and the man who she is attracted to.

Asking for her to clarify her motives behind the request for exclusivity is fair and a grown-up converstaion if he is unclear about it. But to have morals/standards on not sleeping with someone unless there is a commitment is hardly a "hoop" or a game - it just means you recognize the value of your self and want a man who recognizes his value as well and isn't out cheapening his own self with meaningless sex just because he can. No woman of quality wants a manhor any more than a man of quality wants a woman who sleeps around.

 

[Max Power]

But to have morals/standards on not sleeping with someone unless there is a commitment is hardly a "hoop" or a game

It's all of the above. A standard and a hoop. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. It becomes more of a hoop once she puts it out there.

 

[Dash Riprock]

It's all of the above. A standard and a hoop. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. It becomes more of a hoop once she puts it out there.

Max Power: I respect your opinion in that everyone is entitled to one, even if I don't agree with most of it. Here's another spin:

So if it's a “standard and a hoop” as you are claiming, the opposite or right thing would be for her to be 100% submissive and sleep with me when I say w/o any guarantee of another date or exclusivity? She would also have to feel that f***ing me ASAP would not devalue her in my eyes, right?

Here's my take: If she were just another lay or slut, I wouldn’t even have made the post. BUT, I see some potential with her. Personally, I enjoy the company of a hot, intelligent woman that can hold up in a verbal sparring session, has a brain, and has some "game" of their own. It’s rare, I can respect that, and it keeps me interested. How interesting can it get if she rolls over and plays dead and allows herself to be my ***k toy?

Would YOU respect a woman like that?

Frankly, the fact that she didn't let me nail her on the second date (and I tried) gained her some LTR points.

Is respect for a woman I CHOOSE to spend time with putting her on a pedestal? Hardly. I CHOSE her out of many--most don't get a second or third date with me for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Max Power, I think your goals and mine may just be a bit different, guy. I'm after QUALITY, not necessarily quantity these days. But thanks for your take.

 

[Max Power]

Max Power, I think your goals and mine may just be a bit different, guy. I'm after QUALITY, not necessarily quantity these days. But thanks for your take.

In all of my criticisms I never once said I was better than you and I qualified everything I said by saying it's not an easy decision. You ignore my advice and the advice of many others and you defend your choice and counter my arguements by suggesting you are somehow better than me. You, sir, deserve whatever happens to you.

P.S. On a brighter note, I plan on using your situation as an opinion opener at clubs tonight. I'll report back my results. LOL

 

[Max Power]

double post

 

[backbreaker]

She's 31 so most likely beyond the point of extreme immaturity as to what she is looking for in a man

women never "mature"... they just settle and and run out of real men to ****.

Well why did you come to a men's a forum for advice then? You've had 10 guys and a woman respond to your question and nine out of 10 of them told you not to do it. But instead you listen to the one in 10 that say yes and a female. Sounds to me like LovelyLady is telling you what you want to hear and you're only listening to what you want to hear.

Because he didn't come here to get advice.. he came to get a confirmation that the decision he has pre decided to make was correct.. which it isn't.


You are trying to negoiate attraction. That's the main problem here. it's not that necessary holding out is wrong, it's that women who are truely attracted to you, giving up sex is not a problem. She doesn't want to loose you.


think about what's going on here. She is willing to let you walk over sex. that's not attraction, that's her finding someone who she can probably "deal with" over the next 10 years.

 

[Dash Riprock]

In all of my criticisms I never once said I was better than you and I qualified everything I said by saying it's not an easy decision. You ignore my advice and the advice of many others and you defend your choice and counter my arguments by suggesting you are somehow better than me. You, sir, deserve whatever happens to you.

P.S. On a brighter note, I plan on using your situation as an opinion opener at clubs tonight. I'll report back my results. LOL

Great. Then pose the question EXACTLY like this:

Let's say your tired of f***ing bimbos and losers and you meet this girl that is hot, intelligent, and can hold her own with you. There's a lot of physical attraction between the two of you and after a month of dating, she wants (and asks) to see you exclusively. She said she doesn't want to get attached if there's no exclusivity, so she's holding off on f***ing you unless you agree to see her only. You think she may be rare LTR material, so you consider the situation. How do you approach while still maintaining game, control, and hand?

PS- Max, I never claimed to be "better than you." We're all here to get better, improve; whether we agree or not, cool?

 

[backbreaker]

[/B]

Great. Then pose the question EXACTLY like this:

Let's say your tired of f***ing bimbos and losers and you meet this girl that is hot, intelligent, and can hold her own with you. There's a lot of physical attraction between the two of you and after a month of dating, she wants (and asks) to see you exclusively. She said she doesn't want to get attached if there's no exclusivity, so she's holding off on f***ing you unless you agree to see her only. You think she may be rare LTR material, so you consider the situation. How do you approach while still maintaining game, control, and hand?

PS- Max, I never claimed to be "better than you." We're all here to get better, improve; whether we agree or not, cool?

no no no!!!!!


The answer to your "problem" isn't to settle with the girl who witholds sex, because you think she is GREAT and HOT. thoose Bimbo's and Tramps were attracted to you.. she isn't. Regardless of what she says, how intelligent she is, SHE ISN'T ****ING YOU. As Simple minded as it may sound, women **** guys they like. it really IS that simple.

I've NEVER. EVER. Had a woman who was geniunilly attracted to me withhold sex.

A woman who witholds sex has a higher agenda than dating you. She is trying to control you.

I mena my gosh guys how can you be so damn blind? Are you really that low on quality options to where you **** around with..opps.. no ****ing going on here.. you partake in this game of charades to hope to one day get the possibility of a Decent Long Term relationship?

Ross Jefferies said it best.. All passionate relationships start off passionate.

There's a lot of physical attraction between the two of you and after a month of dating

THERE IS NO PHYSICAL ATTRACTION ON HER END BECAUSE SHE ISN'T HAVE SEX WITH YOU!!!!
do you think if she met Brad Pitt tomorrow, went on a date with him, she would tell him... nope.. not until you are only dating me. This "intelligent" woman would have his **** in her mouth before they got out the driveway.

I don't mean to come off as a prude but some of this **** you guys are dealing with is elementary. you aren't making any efforts to improve, you are wanting advice on how to be the best AFC possible.

I've ****ed lawyers, financial advisor's, teachers, professors... and all except one I had sex with on the first date. Women, no matter how smart they are.. still have pvssies.. I promise you.

I mean.. not having sex on the first DATE I can understand. people have their silly rules. Okay. whatever. But going on date after date and withholding sex.. she's just not that into you.

 

[Dash Riprock]

[B]I mena my gosh guys how can you be so damn blind? Are you really that low on quality options to where you **** around with..opps.. no ****ing going on here.. you partake in this game of charades to hope to one day get the possibility of a Decent Long Term relationship?[/B]

Are you flaming me you little dumba**?!

Are you lacking in communication skills to the point of where THAT is your only plan of recourse? Surprising from a guy who has 4000 posts (though kind of disturbing that you DO have 4000 posts…)

People come here to get advice--NOT get flamed you DJ wannabee--which you just proved publicly to everyone by preemptively flaming my post, person, and character. DJs offer advice, knowledge and share know-how in a confident manner, knowing that EVERYONE has been there before—I’m not even going to get into addressing this, we just know.

I'm here to ask a decent question and be cool and respect everyone’s opinion--and then you come along, WTF?

[My apologies to all DJs who had to read this--but this guy needed to be shut up.]

 

[Max Power]

do you think if she met Brad Pitt tomorrow, went on a date with him, she would tell him... nope.. not until you are only dating me. This "intelligent" woman would have his **** in her mouth before they got out the driveway.

I don't mean to come off as a prude but some of this **** you guys are dealing with is elementary. you aren't making any efforts to improve, you are wanting advice on how to be the best AFC possible.

Man, you are one funny dude. I'm still laughing at these two paragraphs. No offence, Dash.

 

[backbreaker]

I mean I'm not flaming.. I have been there. Search My name. I used to have it bad. however I made an effort to improve and I did so. I've called girls and they picked up the phone while having **** rammed in their mouths. i've been stood up.

it's the truth. Attraction is not a choice. you don't cut it on and off and come to terms with it

 

[Gangster Of Love]

Remember one thing. There have been other guys that hit it before or without getting into an exclusive relationship with her.

She's asking you to buy a car without first test driving it. Backbreaker is right, if she is really into you she can't wait to jump into the sack with you, because she wants it, not as a means of control.