The Future of Game - Flaking

Rollo Tomassi

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The Future of Game

Interesting (and probably upsetting) predictions here from Roosh.

Considering the amount of "how to deal with flaking women" threads I read here, this is really going to set the frustrated guys into a tailspin:

Flaking Will Reach Epidemic Proportions

Western culture is teaching youth to glance upon the field and carefully analyze all available options before making a decision, or simply not make a decision at all. Therefore dates scheduled more than a day in advance will be rare. There will be no concept of keeping your word, being honorable, showing up, or acting respectful. Everyone will be looking out for their own. Whereas for night game in the past you had to make out with a girl to decrease the chances she’ll flake, today you have to ƒuck her. That’s right—to get a first date you have to already have had the one-night stand with her. This is the only way I’ve found that decreases flaking to an acceptable level in even today’s climate. If I only made out with the girl, or god forbid didn’t even kiss her, the odds I will see her again are far from assured. The dirty truth of game is how often flaking occurs, and it will happen at such a frustrating level that I’m certain more men will turn into homosexuals or resort to sex dolls because of it. This feature alone will cut the game careers short of many men who simply can’t handle the frustration and rejection. You’ll have to really want it to succeed.
 

^__^

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The DJ way will evolve to accommodate this, as it has since Adam and Eve.

I'm not worried.
 

guru1000

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Quoted post is not a pragmatic view; cynical at best.

With a growing population reaching exponential heights (more women), the future will fall into the 90-10 rule (as compared to the 80/20 rule today), where 90% of women will gravitate to the top 10% of men, with accordance to their respective value (what's brought to the table.)

Education with a Master's degree/Professional License will be the future norm (as compared to high school diploma/BA/BS today) with the diverse online education/licensing courses available, giving the natural alpha greater financial resources, in addition to his already preexisting advantage over beta competitors.

... just a greater variance to our already existing ladder theory.
 

Colossus

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guru1000 said:
Education with a Master's degree/Professional License will be the future norm (as compared to high school diploma/BA/BS today) with the diverse online education/licensing courses available, giving the natural alpha greater financial resources, in addition to his already preexisting advantage over beta competitors..
It's already becoming the norm. With the exception of professional licensing (MD, PA, JD, PharmD, PsyD, etc), the Master's and PhD's will start to become devalued just like a Bachelor's is today---virtually meaningless. Medical professions are highly regulated and they are only becoming tighter with the litigious culture of American healthcare. As far as other fields---it is extremely variable. I've heard of psych/soc masters programs that can be completed in 9 months, no thesis. MBA's--less than a year mostly online. Buyer beware.



squirrels said:
Future??

Try PRESENT.
Yup. I was gonna say the culture of flaking is already here. Rarely is anything planned anymore, and any "plans" are merely implied and subject to the whims of whoever's involved. I cannot tell you how many times I've been flaked on in the last few years, and most of the flakes start off strong and interested. It's a no-commitment momentary culture.
 

jophil28

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Most women have always felt that a promise ( by her) to see a new guy was not an iron clad obligation to honor it unless she "felt" it was in her interests to do so..
Back in the day, men sometimes complained that ," She stood me up last night "...but that situation was rare.

Nowadays it seems to be common.
However, what has changed recently is the tendency for women to "agree" to go out with a new guy and readily hand over her contact details with NO real intention of showing up to a meet, or a date, or even to reply to his first VM.i

Back in the 70's and 80's it was more difficult to set yup dates and when you did, women showed gratitude and excitement about going out with a new guy - the news was eagerly shared will her girl committee and her family members.
BUT if a woman wanted to back out, she at least (usually) found a way to explain to him or offer a 'reason' for her change of heart.
Not so today. "Flaking" seems to be the most popular method for younger women to show that they have changed their mind.
Why ? Because of a myriad factors which include the well known 'entitlement' attitude promoted by feminism and the media, and the moral relativism which is force fed to undergrads.

All I can say is this - do NOT reward a woman who flakes on you with a second chance to do it again. .
 

guru1000

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Flakes are indicators of low interest. When you bring enough value to the table, women don't flake.
 

Mr.Positive

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Flaking is a good thing in a way...we always say "next her!!" With flaking, she next's herself. You don't have to do anything, just move on and focus on another gal. Mentally, it's a no brainer.

The only way to deal with a higher flaking trend by women? Just don't give a sh!t. Period.

Do not invest emotionally in ANY woman, unless you've been together for a year or so and by that time..you should know she's quality.

Let women come an go through your life, just go with it, enjoy it..and move on to the next one.
 

Men frequently err by talking too much. They often monopolize conversations, droning on and on about topics that bore women to tears. They think they're impressing the women when, in reality, they're depressing the women.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Warrior74

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Whereas for night game in the past you had to make out with a girl to decrease the chances she’ll flake, today you have to **** her. That’s right—to get a first date you have to already have had the one-night stand with her. This is the only way I’ve found that decreases flaking to an acceptable level in even today’s climate.
This. This has been my experience in the last two years. Dates are for chics you have already fvcked. I've said it a few times before and dammit if I don't believe it now.
 

Jeffst1980

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Good thread.

The days of setting up day 2's on cold approaches are ending fast. I'm finding more and more cold approaches to lead to texting games that go nowhere, and it kind of makes sense. Girls have wayyy too many options these days, and have the buffer of technology to keep guys at a safe distance while still receiving plenty of validation. It's virtually impossible to build attraction over internet/cell phone, and girls are using these things as "gatekeepers." They're operating with the "abundance" mindset that everyone here is striving for as a default.

I'd like to "next" girls right away for flaky behavior, but it seems to be so prevalent that it's no longer a reliable indicator of personal behavior. Early on, I expect ALL girls to flake, simply because it takes TIME and repeated exposure to build interest level. Additionally, I suspect a lot of girls will purposely ignore your calls just to gauge your neediness. Text messaging is pretty much unavoidable early on.

What I've found that works best is to make your date ideas SUPER lame and not even really thought out--stuff like making girls run errands with you. Somehow, this doesn't trigger the pre-date anxiety that some girls get, which often leads to flaking. I also ask them to do this day-of, because this usually forces a response, unlike "um, so, I was wondering if you could call me back when you get a minute?" Most of the time, they won't be available, but that's not the point- you just want to get them to return messages early on, because if you get ignored, there's not much you can do. Also, you win points for not trying to impress her. Surprisingly, a lot of girls are completely up for going on these non-dates--the key is to have a sense of humor about it and to be a tiny bit patronizing if she starts to qualify herself to you ("most guys take me to "xyz" and pay for everything blah blah blah"). I find that when I do take girls out to do lame things, rapport comes naturally and I can escalate quickly--probably because these are things that COUPLES do.

If you DO get ignored, DON'T send another message or call her again- just wait. I've been texted out of the blue a solid week after getting ignored --you never know what's going on in their lives, and if you seem interesting, they'll want to keep that line of communication open. I'll tease them for being flaky a bit and then ask them how they're going to make it up to me.

The other strategy is a pre-emptive strike: I'll text a girl that I'm gonna call her later on to make plans...and then I won't call. Then, I'll apologize the next day for being a flake--this seems to always force a reply, and sets the tone of the interaction from there on out. Somehow, being a flaky guy communicates a good deal of value, and girls will be more accommodating in accordance with this. Along the same lines as this is to come on way too strong and text her a whole bunch of compliments from the getgo--enough for there to be a significant value transference-- and then disappear for 5 or more days. She'll feel the takeaway, even if her interest wasn't very high to begin with, and the next time you text her (normal stuff, no compliments), she'll be curious.

The goal with flakes is simply to keep them responding to you--if you can do this, you will eventually meet them.

This all sounds pretty stupid being written out like this, but this does seem to get results if you have the patience and willingness to forego conventional dating wisdom.

Keep in mind, though, this is all contingent on the fact that she was attracted to you during your initial meeting and had enough time to build some rapport--this won't help the sloppy 5 minute number close at 2am.
 

Solomon

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ai's mios

guru1000 said:
Flakes are indicators of low interest. When you bring enough value to the table, women don't flake.
I agree with you, however it can also be lack of proper gaming and qualifying. Comfort is the biggest biotic for flaking, also flaking shows a lack of character on the woman's part and even if your a high value guy it doesn't mean shyt now a days to them.

Jeffst1980 said:
Good thread.

The days of setting up day 2's on cold approaches are ending fast. I'm finding more and more cold approaches to lead to texting games that go nowhere, and it kind of makes sense. Girls have wayyy too many options these days, and have the buffer of technology to keep guys at a safe distance while still receiving plenty of validation. It's virtually impossible to build attraction over internet/cell phone, and girls are using these things as "gatekeepers." They're operating with the "abundance" mindset that everyone here is striving for as a default.

I'd like to "next" girls right away for flaky behavior, but it seems to be so prevalent that it's no longer a reliable indicator of personal behavior. Early on, I expect ALL girls to flake, simply because it takes TIME and repeated exposure to build interest level. Additionally, I suspect a lot of girls will purposely ignore your calls just to gauge your neediness. Text messaging is pretty much unavoidable early on.

What I've found that works best is to make your date ideas SUPER lame and not even really thought out--stuff like making girls run errands with you. Somehow, this doesn't trigger the pre-date anxiety that some girls get, which often leads to flaking. I also ask them to do this day-of, because this usually forces a response, unlike "um, so, I was wondering if you could call me back when you get a minute?" Most of the time, they won't be available, but that's not the point- you just want to get them to return messages early on, because if you get ignored, there's not much you can do. Also, you win points for not trying to impress her. Surprisingly, a lot of girls are completely up for going on these non-dates--the key is to have a sense of humor about it and to be a tiny bit patronizing if she starts to qualify herself to you ("most guys take me to "xyz" and pay for everything blah blah blah"). I find that when I do take girls out to do lame things, rapport comes naturally and I can escalate quickly--probably because these are things that COUPLES do.

If you DO get ignored, DON'T send another message or call her again- just wait. I've been texted out of the blue a solid week after getting ignored --you never know what's going on in their lives, and if you seem interesting, they'll want to keep that line of communication open. I'll tease them for being flaky a bit and then ask them how they're going to make it up to me.

The other strategy is a pre-emptive strike: I'll text a girl that I'm gonna call her later on to make plans...and then I won't call. Then, I'll apologize the next day for being a flake--this seems to always force a reply, and sets the tone of the interaction from there on out. Somehow, being a flaky guy communicates a good deal of value, and girls will be more accommodating in accordance with this. Along the same lines as this is to come on way too strong and text her a whole bunch of compliments from the getgo--enough for there to be a significant value transference-- and then disappear for 5 or more days. She'll feel the takeaway, even if her interest wasn't very high to begin with, and the next time you text her (normal stuff, no compliments), she'll be curious.

The goal with flakes is simply to keep them responding to you--if you can do this, you will eventually meet them.

This all sounds pretty stupid being written out like this, but this does seem to get results if you have the patience and willingness to forego conventional dating wisdom.

Keep in mind, though, this is all contingent on the fact that she was attracted to you during your initial meeting and had enough time to build some rapport--this won't help the sloppy 5 minute number close at 2am.
I agree with the first part, about women having abundance but geeze the last part made me :crazy:, is all that work really worth it? no offense Jeffest but I learned the game so I can find chicks who display high interest and not deal with doing all that extra shyt to "win'em" sure your utilizing the game, but man your doing a lot work, not knocking your style, but personally my experience is cut and dry either she is interested or not. No in between.
 

jophil28

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Solomon said:
I agree with the first part, about women having abundance but geeze the last part made me :crazy:, is all that work really worth it? no offense Jeffest but I learned the game so I can find chicks who display high interest and not deal with doing all that extra shyt to "win'em" sure your utilizing the game, but man your doing a lot work, not knocking your style, but personally my experience is cut and dry either she is interested or not. No in between.
Yeah, who the F has the time and energy to go to all that trouble for unpredictable results.

" she is interested or she is not .."
Exactly.
 

guru1000

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Solomon said:
even if your a high value guy it doesn't mean shyt now a days to them.
Soloman, what's up pal?

It certainly does. Depending on the age demographics involved, it is a fact that men with annual incomes over 250k+, in most areas will rarely, if ever, see a flake. I won't make references to celebrities, politicians and media figures, whereas most of us don't fall into these categories. However, if you are over the age of 30 and experiencing many flakes, this is an indication of your present earnings or earning potential. This may appall some men; however, its a reality you can control and are not slave to.

If you want to stop flakes, earn more; otherwise, take Mr. P's advice.
 

Don't always be the one putting yourself out for her. Don't always be the one putting all the effort and work into the relationship. Let her, and expect her, to treat you as well as you treat her, and to improve the quality of your life.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Jeffst1980

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Solomon said:
I agree with the first part, about women having abundance but geeze the last part made me :crazy:, is all that work really worth it? no offense Jeffest but I learned the game so I can find chicks who display high interest and not deal with doing all that extra shyt to "win'em" sure your utilizing the game, but man your doing a lot work, not knocking your style, but personally my experience is cut and dry either she is interested or not. No in between.
Point taken, and believe me- I agree 100% that it's preferable to find a high interest girl. Only problem is--there's only so much interest you can build in a cold approach; plus, I like girls in the 21-24 age range, and these are the worst offenders by far when it comes to flaking.
 

Trader

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Jeffst1980 said:
Point taken, and believe me- I agree 100% that it's preferable to find a high interest girl. Only problem is--there's only so much interest you can build in a cold approach; plus, I like girls in the 21-24 age range, and these are the worst offenders by far when it comes to flaking.
I'm sure you all realize that you reduce the chances of a girl *flaking* if you meet her in a social setting (i.e. through friends/party) instead of cold-approaching, since that gives you more time to interact. Her defenses are down compared to a cold-approach (who is this stranger that is talking to me?)
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Bear in mind that Roosh is prognosticating all this based on current trends and foreseeable outcomes. What I thought was interesting was the idea that even if you're kiss closing upon your first encounter, odds are still better than half that a woman will flake for even a first date (adjust for demography of course). Only an F-Close really locks down a first date, and this is becoming the norm as it is now.

I'd like to consider that there'd be a few mitigating factors for flaking as have been mentioned already - the age / maturity level of a woman, differing social / sexual value of a potential mate, geographic regions and the social interactions that characterize them, but on a whole these are outliers. Generally men and women are going to be looking for as ideal a situation as their conditions permit, yet in spite of these outliers women still default to flaking on guys as commonplace. At least commonplace enough that it's an increasingly reoccurring complaint for men.

Stoically walking away or NEXTing a flake isn't enough. You're not going to teach a flake a lesson when she has 6 more guys lined up and all willing to put up with her flakiness if they think it means they have a shot at ƒucking her.

What I thought was interesting s the 1st night lay = non-flake first date proposition. This doesn't sit well with AFCs because a 1st night lay or an ONS is too foreign an idea for most of them. However, now the prediction is for this to be a matter of course to GET a first date. "Rollo, I'm sick of all these flaky attention whøres, how do I reduce their flakiness?", "ƒuck her the night you meet her." Hahah,..

Now take all that to the extreme as Roosh has done, even insisting that if he kiss closes on the first meeting, odds are she'll flake, and you can see the tears of desperation welling up in the eyes of AFCs everywhere. The bar just got set even higher for them as they were thinking Game could be their panacea.
 

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Am I the only one who sees this as a good thing?

Maybe it's the eternal optimist in me, but I'd much rather get flaked on earlier than later. It's a way for women to weed THEMSELVES out FOR ME.

Of course, as Rollo says... the AFC won't see it this way and will cry all the way to their box of tissues.

Hey, if kissing someone on the first date and having a good time doesn't get me a second date... I'm better off without that person.
Right now kissing means nothing. Women kiss each other all the time and it doesn't mean they are necessarily going out.

The mindset of "I kissed her, I'm in" is a mindset that's abandoned NOW. Of course, most of us see this ALREADY, but Roosh is talking about a broader audience who DON'T see it yet.

If anything, I'm happy this is the norm. Let them weed themselves out on their own. I don't have to do the work nor spend the money unnecessarily.

I guarantee most of the men posting in this thread already know that you don't date women you don't fvck first, but is it the same in Don Juan Discussion? Of course not.
 

Jeffst1980

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Bear in mind that Roosh is prognosticating all this based on current trends and foreseeable outcomes. What I thought was interesting was the idea that even if you're kiss closing upon your first encounter, odds are still better than half that a woman will flake for even a first date (adjust for demography of course). Only an F-Close really locks down a first date, and this is becoming the norm as it is now.

I'd like to consider that there'd be a few mitigating factors for flaking as have been mentioned already - the age / maturity level of a woman, differing social / sexual value of a potential mate, geographic regions and the social interactions that characterize them, but on a whole these are outliers. Generally men and women are going to be looking for as ideal a situation as their conditions permit, yet in spite of these outliers women still default to flaking on guys as commonplace. At least commonplace enough that it's an increasingly reoccurring complaint for men.

Stoically walking away or NEXTing a flake isn't enough. You're not going to teach a flake a lesson when she has 6 more guys lined up and all willing to put up with her flakiness if they think it means they have a shot at ƒucking her.

What I thought was interesting s the 1st night lay = non-flake first date proposition. This doesn't sit well with AFCs because a 1st night lay or an ONS is too foreign an idea for most of them. However, now the prediction is for this to be a matter of course to GET a first date. "Rollo, I'm sick of all these flaky attention whøres, how do I reduce their flakiness?", "ƒuck her the night you meet her." Hahah,..

Now take all that to the extreme as Roosh has done, even insisting that if he kiss closes on the first meeting, odds are she'll flake, and you can see the tears of desperation welling up in the eyes of AFCs everywhere. The bar just got set even higher for them as they were thinking Game could be their panacea.
I wonder if this will lead to an increase in sexual partners for women, since the only guys that will "pass" will be the ones least likely to enter a relationship. Or, perhaps increased LMR will correct for this.
 

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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