The Final Word on "The Secret": Deep Dish's Exposé on the Naked Truth

[ricorico]

I believe in the power of posetive thinking. But believing there is a "LAW" of attraction , I don't.

A good friend of my parents is big on Tony Robbins and all of that stuff. He spends tons of money on seminars. One day he was bragging about a "Tony Robbins" seminar he attented in Hawaii in which he learned you can do anything you set your mind to. He excitedly told everyone after a week of "positive thinking" and using your mind to control situations,he and others there actually were able to walk across coal without burning their feet. He thought he was now "superhuman". I hated to burst his bubble, but it's been proven if you walk on coal at a steady pace ,you will not get burned . You did'nt need to give Tony Robbins or any of these other gurus all your cash to learn that. .

Again, everyone believes in the power of positive thinking. If you are Catholic you have been preached that since day one. "Ask and you shall receive". I have aunts who get together for prayer sessions all the time. If those women are not strong believers than noone is. There is nothing new in the message of the Secret which has not been written in hundreds of books previously.

But adding we are all in control of "everything" that happens in our lives not always true. There are "bad people in the world, there are selfish people in this world, there are jealous people in this world. Everyday we deal with people like this. To say whatever I concentrate on I will have my outcomes may be true 50-60% of the time. But there are some folks who throw a glitch in stuff just because they can!!!.

Bob Clark, the director of "A Christmas Story" and "Porkies" movies was killed yesterday along with his son by a drunk driver going the wrong way on the highway. He was a friend of my parents. This guy was a good guy and so was the son. Do you think they attracted this? The drunk guy driving who should have attracted his death is FINE!!! Nothing is wrong with him at all.Can anyone see the irony in this?

Come live where I live and you will see the most selfish cruel bastards living in huge mansions. People who have so much money they can't spend it enough. But yet, watch them screw their help and argue with them about every penny. Cheat poor employees with families to feed and barely making it.Watch them yell and belittle people, make fun of them just because they think they have "arrived". If there is a law of attraction, these people should be attracting the most miserable lives . They are cheap to others and worry about losing their money constantly or getting taken. So should they not be attracting money problems? But they don't, they live the life of Reilley. How exactly does this law of attraction work for folks who manipulate, use others, are selfish,egomanics. I mean should'nt they be getting back exactly what they are putting out?

 

[Holland]

RIP. The guy and his son.
I liked those porky's movies.
I don't know if they attracted that. I don't have certainty that this law of attraction really works. But what I do believe that death is merely a form of transformation that is very necessary. Sure it's sad that some people have to die early, but what I've heard from people with NDE experiences it is not so bad as everyone thinks it is. It's just is the way things happen and it would be absurd to argue with that.

Ricorico, those cruel people you are talking about are not rich.

12 Laws of riches

1. Positive mental attitude
2. Sound health
3. Harmony in human relations
4. Freedom from fear
5. Hope of future achievement
6. Capacity for applied faith
7. Willingness to share ones blessings with others
8. Be engaged in a labor of love
9. An open mind towards all subjects towards all people
10. Complete self discipline
11. Wisdom to understand people
12. Financial security. Note: money comes last in the list.
- Napoleon Hill -

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

Dear A-Unit

Yes, you do in fact need to examine BOTH sides of the equation before you pass true judgement. Making up examples to prove your point is pure idiocy.

No, I don't. One jist of the work of "The Secret" tells me it's total junk by looking at its claims. Why do you think that there is still literary criticisms on the works of Shakespeare, Cervantes, Balzac, ****ens, Tolstoy, Camus, Golding, etc. . . And yet there is next to no interest in the works of Jackie Collins, Jeffrey Archer, Danielle Steele, etc. . . I'll tell you why, because the latter group of authors write cr*p, pure and simple. They can never be literary giants because they don't have it in them. They might be bestsellers and make a lot of money, but they're pure literary trash. No self respecting literary critic would give a f*ck about the second group of authors because that's how bad their works are.

To be frank, I've never made mention of quantum mechanics in my posts. I am studying such things, but going back, I've never made mention of them. I have no ego investment in this. What I do have is a disdain for posters such as yourself who just "tag along" like a lapdog to more seasoned posters, fill their posts up, spin in some buzz words, and some off like an immature troll. We've crossed the threshhold between the original topic, and pure flaming now.

Again, I don't tag along to anything. But Deep Dish did a tour de force with one post and a few moments of pure genius here and there. I am nobody's lapdog. Quite the contrary in fact.

The "concepts" behind all the works and the Secret, which is in my opinion "Consciousness," are what matters. The consciousness of our universe. Of our planet. With 6 billion people, and ricorico professing LOA can't work because other people are so horrible and good people are oppressed, you only need to look at the state of mind of humanity. We throw off responsibility to genetics, childhood, emotional and chemical imbalances, the environment, religion, a higher power, but it never comes back to the individual. Individuals never see their responsibility in creating this world. Is that not seen amongst the works provided? Is it not known by you that we create this world, all 6 billion of us? And if we're pissed off about it, we have only need to look in a mirror?

I've never thrown responsibility to genetics, childhood, emotional and chemical imbalances, the environment, religion, a higher power etc. . . . Where have I done this? The concept of responsibility is a hard question, because you immediately depend on "Free Will". If you read William Goldings Lord of the Flies, you will see what I mean by this. That 6 billion of us create this world is not in dispute, that there might be certain things beyond our control because of this and other factors of "human nature" is. I am on neither side of the coin since this is a very difficult question and I truly believe NO ONE has the answer.

I took a "concept" from The Secret, which happened to make more sense than pure religion has, and doesn't ask for sunday alms, or offerings, and yet contradict itself. The concept here, that I've positioned myself in supporting is personal responsibility and the will of the individual to create HIS world as he sees fit. Do you take issue with that? Go back. ALL my posts are related to that, probably back 3 years.

I take NO issue with you taking responsibility for yourself. I, however, do take issue if you appeal to illogical, unproven, nay unfalsifiable concepts, and say they are TRUTH to support your claim.

Today it's the Secret, Tomorrow's the Secret to Infinity or some other concept. If this post is about disproving The Secret by science, that's false imo, too. What was known science YESTERDAY, is no longer KNOWN SCIENCE today. Science is only presently known opinion. It isn't THAT concrete. There are some laws which explain our universe, and there are other's that are, or have been, turned over.

Science is not, and never has been, perfect. But it is good ENOUGH for the technological advances with which we enjoy. Science made all the things of the modern world possible. It does not dabble in superstition nor in unfalsifiable statements/concepts. In actual fact the science of yesterday is usually EXTENDED by the science of today. Newton's laws were never overthrown, it's just our technological level of measuring at the time did not make a quantum/relativity theory possible. You may say it is not that concrete, but I put it to you that it is the ONLY nearly concrete thing we have, and without it the technological advances that we enjoy would NOT be possible.

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

cont. . .

As someone who understands the tendency of people to CLING to something as their crutch, I've never been 100% into one thing, because I understand something will override or maybe contradict these concepts. BUT, they are a step in the right direction. So many people want to point blame elsewhere. Fundamentalists, poverty, health, wealth, weather, life, and never think..."Do we as a species make this world this way? What if we tried, as a group, to make this world in some better vision?" While LOA, or just wishing or praying at your nearest church can't save people in Africa, certainly a GROUP of people, and the whole humanity COULD. But Consciousness is fractured and broken. For the most part we link that to psychological or genetic problems. Is it? We think we've evolved and yet we commit the same atrocities we did as a species, just with greater rapidity and stealth?

There's a theory, and it's called the time lag theory. We evolved to live in groups of about 100 individuals, and we did not have sufficient evolutionary time to adjust our behavior patterns accordingly, like a fish out of water you could say. Do you think there is merit in this theory? It's just a theory, but a lot of sociologists, evolutionary psychologists give it the time of day and look to extend and build upon it to explain the things that you are saying. The first thing you got to ask yourself is: do you think human beings are capable of collectively cooperating at the level of 6 billion people? I suppose for certain tasks it is possible, like organise a world jump day where 90% or more of the world jumps at a certain time.

Your last point I take issue with: why should evolution should be in the direction of "good"? In actual fact, why should it have direction? Who are you to impose a direction on it? Nature does as she pleases, you may not like that, but it's the truth. You say that we commit atrocities with greater speed and stealth, have you realized that that was aided by advance in technology - which directly goes to progresses in science? If you invoke the concept of evolution have the decency to try and understand it, instead of imposing your prejudiced assumptions on it. The moon orbits the earth, no matter what I do I can't change that. I can however use that to calculate the tidal flows and times that might be of interest to seafarers.

I care not for keeping this post going, but at every turn I've either, not communicated effectively, had my words twisted, OR, been misunderstood totally. I care not for convincing you, as this is our world, and our realities are separate, as are our beliefs. Obviously. People say...well "If it's so great it would...do this, this, and this!" But not all people WANT that. Not all people are aware or CARE about atrocities the world around, as ricorico noted. Not all people believe the war is good, or bad. If they did, people would help in changing things. They'd act.

You do not convince me. You strike me as a person who says: Look, there's 6 billion of us here, we run the damn world, hence we can do something about it, lets get together and get rid of all the ills of this earth, since we are in charge. The problem with that is that there are people who view things differently, and they might not feel as you do. Also you might find that even if everyone had the right intentions and spirit, there will always be personality conflicts. And I'm not even appealing to science/logic there, just personal experience.

I'm going to try to be careful here in administering a possible antidote to your last two points in your quote. Suppose we use this theory about the time lag. Since we only evolved to live in groups of 100 or so, to hear about other atrocities/pain in the world would be an "unnatural" thing. We cannot really deal with it. When someone dies in our group we feel pain, sorrow, anger even - depends on what the person was to us, and you see this everywhere in the media. When its someone we don't know we can't really relate to it, unless it is something we share. . .

The above was a bit of gibberish, but it highlights a point: the problem is much more complex than you think, and for you to point an accusing finger at people not caring nor wanting to know might be correct, but you have no basis on understanding the problem at hand, nor are you aware of other things at work. This is not an appeal to anything . . . And it's not defeatist either. There are many politicians in the world who want changes, but you see everyone sees the world differently, and propose different solutions. How quaint that they all agree on the problems!!!

Your last two points are nothing to do with this thread. Also, they show total utter immaturity of thought. It's not that we don't welcome them - we do - it's just that you don't understand human nature in general. You are an over optimist. You are like the guy who thinks that character alone is all that is required to get a HB, when it never would occur to you that she just does not find you physically appealing no matter what your personality.

I like you to look your last two comments again and then read the works of Shakespeare, Balzac, Camus and Golding (especially Lord of the Flies) etc . . . , because for me to answer you in the way it deserves is not within the means of what I have to say here, nor the space allowed, and these great men say it far better than I ever can.

And lastly, the concepts behind the Secret aren't just Quantum Mechanics. They're bodies of work dating back 100 years, and even several centuries. Different religious texts say much the same as the secret does, minus the science the secret attempts to use. The field of "Chaos and Chaos Theory" is relatively new in comparison to all other fields. It's value has become obvious and practical, and is drawing the attention of scholars the world around. However, it doesn't have the track record that other Science Fields have. Should it be discounted because it's new?

I really don't care what anyone believes, because no one cares what I believe. It's your reality, do what you will. Perhaps some viewers saw a different science in The Secret than I did. My point since the get-go was...this isn't new science, just packaged better. And...having not read or watched any of it...well, just confirmed my waste of time on this topic.

These bodies of work going back hundreds of years are dubious at best, and some unfalsifiable. Hence nothing to discuss there. I, quite frankly, don't care what you believe. I do, however, care about what you can prove within a logically consistent framework.

And NO, you DON'T create your own reality. There is only ONE reality, and that is what you are existing on now. What you create is how you INTERPRET this reality - and that's another matter altogether.

 

[6-heads lewis]

"Food is not responsible for putting on weight. It is your thought that food is responsible for putting on weight that actually has food put on weight." -- Rhonda Byrne

I AM RETARDED

 

[6-heads lewis]

Holland and A-Unit criticize Deep Dish for debunking this RETARDED notion, and they say that he should make an alternative suggestion to promote joyful living like God or some other unprovable beacon of hope.

Why? Why does someone HAVE to believe that their is an Answer, or some kind of divine presence that will bring us all joy and love for enternity? Are you both insane?

This isnt about being 'cynical' or 'hopeless', its about being RATIONAL and LOGICAL. Rational, logical prople do not have to place all their hope in some non-scientific, (and conveniently non-provable) nonsense to continue their insignificant lives.

The truth is there is probably nothing beyond this life, and nothing mystical about our existence. If there is, YOU PROBABLY WONT FIND OUT until you die anyway. You are thrown onto this earth without your consent, and are told to follow the rules of Some Guy who refuses to negotiate. You can't say "no thanks" and go back to pre-birth state, because that decision lands you in Hell (wonderful!).

In reality, the world as you will live it probably boils down to being born, fvcking off for 70 years, and then dying. Why must you emotionally and irrationally cling to some false salvation, or non-sensical message of hope like The Secret?

It seems like many religious or 'new-age' people like you guys believe in The Secret only because you have to believe in SOMETHING, even if you know that something is ridiculous.

 

[6-heads lewis]

"No-one knows the reason for this, but it's probably quantum"

 

[ricorico]

"Food is not responsible for putting on weight. It is your thought that food is responsible for putting on weight that actually has food put on weight." -- Rhonda Byrne

I AM RETARDED

Yeah, I heard that "food is not responsible BS from "The Secret".

I guess we better tell those obese babies and kids on Maury Povich they aint fat cause their mothers feed them too damned much. But because those babies spend too much time worrying about being fat. Maury should stop yelling at the mothers with obese kids and trying to tell them to feed those babies right and have them excercise. Just tell the mothers to talk to those little critters about "The Secret" .

http://www.webslog.com/images/images_4.jpg

 

[Holland]

Why? Why does someone HAVE to believe that their is an Answer, or some kind of divine presence that will bring us all joy and love for enternity? Are you both insane?

Fool, I do not cling to anything.
But I do think it is foolish to waste your time on things you do not believe in and criticing them.

I do not rely on the Secret, I have not watched it 284 times.
Fact is, that people have benefitted from it. They took what they liked about it and applied it.
If you want to be concerned about all other non-proven shiit that's in it, be my guest, but I think you're wasting your time.

One thing I liked in the Secret was the part about emotional guidance. That you look for the cause of your emotional state. Wayne Dyer talks about this in Your Erroneous Zones as well.
Your thoughts have an impact on your emotional state (and vice-versa). If you can change your thoughts and beliefs, you will change your emotional state. Which will allow you to take more calculated risks and constructive action. This is not really that new, a lot of other people have stated this as well. But I do think it's wonderfull that The Secret reaches a lot of people who are unaware of this and benefit from it.

And off course that quote of Byrne is BS, if you will stuff your mouth full with fast-food and do nothing you will become a fat person.
But I couldn't care less, I just take what I want from the Secret and ignore the BS.

Look for the GOOD in people and situations

Ow and BTW, I only place 'all my hope' completely on myself, not on ANYTHING else.

 

[6-heads lewis]

If you want to be concerned about all other non-proven shiit that's in it, be my guest, but I think you're wasting your time.

Well actually, very little of it IS proven. This becomes a debate about positive thinking, which I never opposed. If you are defending positive thinking but admitting the Secret's claims are false, then there is no disagreement.

But I do think it is foolish to waste your time on things you do not believe in and criticing them.

Well, everything can be classified a waste of time. If you do not believe in Deep Dish's comments and came to criticize them, you are doing the exact same "foolish" thing.

I am a proponent in time management and efficiency, but its absurd to follow a principle of constant and conscious self improvement. Its way too mentally exhausting.

The comment about emotional states is undoubtedly true, most people won't have a problem admitting that. I have a book called "Core transformations" thats about understanding the underlying motives behind your emotions, accepting them and transforming them to work for you. Never tried the exercises though.

Ow and BTW, I only place 'all my hope' completely on myself, not on ANYTHING else.

A valid criticism on these 'self-help' books is they encourage solitary improvement at the expense of societal improvement. Society doesnt benefit from you wishing for a new car.

The people who control our society do not want us to unite. They are constantly inventing ways of separating people (religion, race, gangs, affiliations, geographic location) and keeping them from sharing ideas and working together. The goal is to eliminate a sense of community and tradition, make people become self-reliant, mistrustful of their neighbours and easier to manipulate. This is why braintrust is actually most concerned about uprisings from the South, where people are armed and united. No matter what happens, New York would never unite and start an uprising, because nobody cares about anybody else.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent, but you see my point. Back in Serbia there are no self-help books, people live simple lives, but are much happier then they are here because they have a sense of community, identity and tradition. Nobody thinks about "the Secret", positive thinking, hypnosis, Tony Robbins or any other self-help method, rather they become members of a long-standing community and find happiness and support from each other.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

Imagine if you had taken that energy and focused it on something you DO believe in, and used that energy to affect a real change in your life. Imagine where you'd be right now.

As it stands, you've just developed a lot of words that most of us aren't going to read, to disprove something that most of us don't really care about.

If someone has a technique they use, then let them have that technique. Not all techniques work for ALL people. I'm willing to assert that this "Secret" has worked for some people. Hell, even if it works for just one person, it's worth it.

Why spend your time tearing something down when you could spend it building something UP?

You just described one of the dogmas of the law of attraction.

The original dogmas written by Napoleon Hill and the like.


But I guess its all bullsh!t.

 

[Deep Dish]

It has been difficult for me to compose a response because no one has summoned a refutation of my review. I never took a debate class in high school or college, but I did take a few English courses and one concerned itself squarely with composing effective argumentative papers. I presented a thorough case of why The Secret's central thesis was physics—energies, frequencies, vibrations—and correspondingly the burden of proof lies upon my opponents to demonstrate otherwise. No one has provided evidence, cited any sources, to support the claim quantum physics as the central thesis was a "misinterpretation" by critics. Just because an author mentions positive thinking and visualizations doesn't necessitate that is the underlying premise. In critical thinking, you are free to disagree but you must be convincing. All I hear right now are some mosquitoes flying about—there aren't many crickets in Florida. So, as rationality is concerned... I win.

"Why bother" arguing against silliness—obviously some people didn't read the introduction.

Holland
All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; second, it is violently opposed; third, accepted as self-evident.

Supporters of the fringe love to quote George Bernard Shaw when he said, "All great truths begin as blasphemies," but they always leave out the second half, "but all blasphemies do not become great truths." Anajanska (1919).

Anyway, I don't expect a response to this post and this will be my last participation in the thread unless someone says something worthwhile or spectacular. Kudos to Mr. Darwinian, et al., for their great replies.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

I don't expect a response to this post and this will be my last participation in the thread unless someone says something worthwhile or spectacular.

I don't see the point of making the thread at all. So you don't believe in this dogma. This is the second thread you made about this. Do we really need to keep hearing about this skepticism and pessimism on your part?

Skeptics don't accomplish anything.

You have not bothered to outline a useful dogma that you DO believe in. You just keep trying to tear down this one. To what end? Nothing good can come out of it. With the energy expended on this well though out post, you could have done something worthwhile.



And kudos to the conclusion that there is no relation between the mind and quantum mechanics. It looks like you actually read something about quantum mechanics.

 

[Holland]

Skeptics don't accomplish anything.

Dude, he just 'won' the argument. His ego got a boost on being a rational scientific debater. Now his chances of becoming a professor have increased dramaticly.
Deep Dish, you are my hero! :crackup:

Deep Dish, nobody wins in life. You only produce results. And it looks to me you are really proud of it that

no one has summoned a refutation of my review

, so I guess you did not waste your time at all. You used it perfectly to 'win' your argument.

To me, nobody is 'right' or 'correct'.
If you choose to not believe in these principles that's perfect. That belief will be the thing that will shape your reality.
I just happen to believe in it and it benefits me. If you don't want to accept that, than I only have ONE word for you: Neurotic.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

Mmmm, not really, Mr. 'god of getting laid.'

Like A-unit said, Deep Dish is only bashing the Secret. I haven't seen any constructive advice from him.

The purpose was not to provide any constructive advice. The purpose is to prove that the secret is 100% bullshyte. Weve succeeded at proving this.

That's why I choose to stop convincing someone who is not ready see the value of the underlying principles that many people have used to become succesfull.

If the secret is 100% bullshyte, how would it be valuable?

The secret is telling them that if they believe they can do something and take constructive action upon that belief they will be succesfull.

The problem with this is that just becuase you beleive you can do something, and take action to achieve it does NOT mean you will achieve it.

I don't know about you, but what I have come to believe is that anything you can conceive and believe, you can achieve (Napoleon Hill).

That is such a lie right there.

 

[animal crackers]

Just a couple thoughts on how "the Secret" can be both true and false.

I don't think anyone would argue with me that one's beliefs affect one's life enormously. (eg. I suck vs I rock!)


I say that one's beliefs influence the way their life comes together REGARDLESS of whether those beliefs are factually true. There are many examples of this. Anyone who has had a dream come true knows this. Having a strong belief and vision is what matters, not whether at this moment it is factually true or not. If your beliefs continue to be strong your life will eventually align itself to these beliefs.

In dealing with women it's the "act as if" or "fake it till you make it" strategy.

I'm reading this over now and its sounds like really horrible advice. I'm basically saying to believe things that aren't true, but you wish were true.

But I mean it.

Believe with all your heart

Reinforce your new beliefs every second of every day and take congruent action that aligns with those new beliefs.

If there was ever a magic pill this is it guys.


btw I didn't read the original post.......sorry )

 

[e-lie]

I agree with darwin for sure

 

[Lust]

I don't see the point in posting this.

Even if it doesn't work, it encourages positive thinking.
It encourages you to feel happy.
I don't understand why you would want to disprove that.

 

[Deep Dish]

I don't see the point in posting this.

Even if it doesn't work, it encourages positive thinking.
It encourages you to feel happy.
I don't understand why you would want to disprove that.

Because the central premise is false and the book/film/DVD is full of lies, distortions, ignorance, and just bad thinking. Among other things, it justifies genocide, bigotry, sexism, racism, and vulturistic fraud. The book/film/DVD is simply atrocious. Sure, knowing what you want, setting goals, visualizations, and maintaining a positive attitude”—which are not the central thesis— may “work but don’t in the process flagrantly lie to people and poison the mind with a myriad of toxins. Positive thinking and all that is good but keep it real.