The Don Juan Pickup Artist

BrotherAP

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I was debating, for a moment or two, whether I was a "Don Juan" or a "Pickup Artist" and I realized that that two weren't mutually exclusive.

The fact of the matter is, being a PUA is somewhat of a prerequisite to being a DJ. How can one exclude or even diminish the importance of getting girls when they are idealizing a man whos greatest legacy was that he could seduce women better than most men who have ever lived?

A PUA, simpy put, is a man who studies how to seduce girls. Whether he uses canned material or not, as long as he approaches regurlarly and studies what is effective and what isn't, then he is a pickup artist.

This doesn't mean you can't improve yourself. We all need to have things going for us in our lives, interesting hobbies, good friends, and aspirations to look forward to. All these things also make you more attractive to women too.

In fact, most people who have trouble with women cannot become a pickup artist without improving themselves first. The first thing that likely needs to improve is confidence. This requires major change. Then social skills must be improved. This is not to be taken lightly. Most good PUAs know more about socialization than somebody with a bachelor's in communications. They know how to make interesting conversation, read subtle social clues, understand the importance and meaning of body language, and know what makes a person 'cool' or 'weird' to name a few things. To take it further, men are encouraged to lead interesting lives so that they can tell interesting stories. They learn how to dress well also, making sure to look their bests to further improve their chances. To add icing to the cake, all of this uncommon understanding of women and what makes them tick make a competent PUA immune to the deceptive traps set by attention wh0res and gold diggers.

Not bad for a guy who likely started off as an anti-social nerd who couldn't get laid to save his life. If that's not self-improvement, I don't know what is.

The problem I'm having with this website right now is that it is too vague. The forums here all serve as introductions to the topics, and I've grown out of them. I can spend hours reading every post and not learn a damn thing. With the exception on the info about working out, anybody who finds any success with a particular area seems to grow out of this place and go somewhere more advanced. Since this website is, afterall, about picking up chicks, the self-improvement talk is vague and only presented as it is relevant. This is the way it should be. The problem is, however, that when it comes to talk about women people focus too much on the self-improvement. "Fix yourself, and the girls will come naturally!" Meanwhile, the advice about picking up girls here is fairly static. I rarely, if ever, see an answer to a question that makes me pause and think to myself "Hmm, I've never thought of that before". Most of the time it's more like "Yeh, I've read that 100 times... but it sounds wrong to me." By now, I can predict the answers to most questions before even opening the topic. Often I see a thread two pages long with 30 something responses where nobody has given a good answer, and I'm shocked! In a forum dedicated to the discussion of "meeting, dating, and attracting women" it's amazing what the majority of people don't know.

But, problems with the forum aside, my point is simple.

A Don Juan should also be a pickup artist. We should focus more on "meeting, dating, and attracting" girls and less on looking in the mirror every morning and telling ourselves "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, gosh darnit, people like me"

BrotherAP :D

-The Don Juan Pickup Artist-
 

fyrefly

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don juan is a label, a PUA is an acronym, i am simply me, and you are simply you.

:cool:
 

Lost In Translation

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yes i have thought about this as well

i think there are 3 schools : PUA , Don Juans and PIMPS

when i first came to SoSuave i was 100% pimp

my first thread and also field report i posted when i joined

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58365

now despite being flamed for 2 pages because people thought i was being a jerk

i was actually just posting the truth 100% unedited of how i saw the world and how i f*cked lots of women

i didn't know there was another way

so i started reading the DJ bible more and started working on my game and being more of a smooth gentleman like James Bond

posted a few more field reports

got flamed on one of them like 7 pages of flames LOL

so i stopped posting field reports and rarely to this day post them except when someone has a problem and i think a small FR will help

i didn't understand why i was being flamed. so i keep reading and learning and watching and bit by bit changing my game.

i was changing my game to better myself not because i needed women. i was already f*cking plenty. but i felt empty and it felt too easy and even though they were good looking they were all corrupted and i thought i deserved women with better morals ( most of the women i was f*cking had boyfriends or i would f*ck them on the first date and get bored because it was no challenege )

so after posting on sosuave for a few months and having success with women and changing myself alittle on the inside the flaming and negative comments made me leave

i went away for 6 months and conducted experiments based on my skills with a cross polymer of Don Juan thrown in

At the end i found i now had the skills to approach higher social status women with success and have the option for a LTR

whereas before i could pull rich women but they just wanted a bad boy to f*ck and never considered me to be LTR material

CURRENT STATUS :

PUA 0% Don Juan 30% PIMP 70%

never read any books. never watched any DVDs.

only stuff i have read is the DJ bible and only some of it.

i think the more you can learn from books and DVDs the better

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT INGREDIENT

is EXPERIENCE

getting out there and getting your hands dirty is the only way to grow

body building is EXERCISE + NUTRITION + REST

alot of people sit on sosuave and eat up all this stuff

then rest

UNLESS THEY EXERCISE what they learn it will all be stored as fat


Lost In Translation :D

**AUSTRALIAN STREET PIMP**

Quote: LJC
“ You're not a DJ, you're a pimp “

Quote: LJC
“ You don't strike me as crafty and seductive, you strike me as stubborn and pimpish “

Quote: Don Juanabbe
“ What are you Vanilla-bloody-Ice? “

Quote: PuertoRican_Lover
“First off - she is just another hor who has opened her legs to another man - you are no one special - and there are no "Greatest" to hors - you are just the next pimp in line!!! “

Quote: PuertoRican_Lover
“ the 'pimp' mentality works today because you are living in a time such that there are an overabundance if hors - this is the Pimps playground!! Pimps and hors go together like bread and butter - they are complementary natures!!! Pimps need hors like hors need pimps!! “
 

BrotherAP

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LIT - you have the finest tuned bullsh!t detector of anyone who posts on this board. I envy that.

Looks like we have a lot in common.

I too have only read part of the DJ bible

Too many 'techniques' are geared for slvts. I don't need advice to tell me how to get a slvt in bed.

I want the good looking good girl - the one that has her choice of boyfriends, and chooses carefully.

i was already f*cking plenty. but i felt empty and it felt too easy and even though they were good looking they were all corrupted and i thought i deserved women with better morals ( most of the women i was f*cking had boyfriends or i would f*ck them on the first date and get bored because it was no challenege)

I know the feeling all too well.

The difference is - I used to have moderate success with decent women, and never bothered with hos but somehow I couldn't get anything but a ho when I started trying to apply the DJ methods from reading here. All I really learned was how to identify the girls who have already decided to fvck me and to take advantage of it in the most efficient possible way.

I think we should lead a new trend on how to focus on getting high quality chicks instead whatever girl won't mind fvcking you on the dance floor of a crowded club.

I still have a hard time finding a girl I would date. I have rejected quite a few hot girls when they started acting in a way that I didn't like. That's only the first step though.

Here's lookin forward to the next one!


BrotherAP :D
 

BrotherAP

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Originally posted by fyrefly
don juan is a label, a PUA is an acronym, i am simply me, and you are simply you.

:cool:
Very true, and it occured to me when writing that these are all ill-defined terms.

What triggered this train of thought was a few replies posted by JC Jerkson to a poster asking about the mystery method

Sorry you've got it wrong.

And don't ask it here. This site is for people to learn how to become a Don Juan not a pickup artist. Go to fastseduction.com


The sad thing is, he is right - this website isn't the place to post something like that. But he's a little off in his reasoning. It has nothing to do with Don Juan vs pickup artist. Fact of the matter, the discussion here just isn't at the level of what it should be.

In any case, I have trouble associating myself with any of these labels. I'm just going to have to make up my own I guess.

So, considering that you (apparently) need no skills with women to be a Don Juan, shouldn't we have a special title for those who can actually pickup women?


LIT, one more thing to add, just occured to me

The other day, my friend (who does not know about this forum) somehow got on topic of Don Juan DeMarco, and he said "Even Don Juan - the greatest pimp who ever lived, eventually settled down with a great woman. This was the whole point of his teachings. Granted, they both died of syphillis... but that's besides the point"

If what he says is true, than maybe we have more in common with the real Don Juan than I ever realized before

BrotherAP :D

- AFC DJ PUA... whatever -
 

Swoop

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I don't know how everyone define PUA and Don Juan. But this is how I define the two.

PUA is someone who goes out with the intention to pick up women.

Don Juan is someone who goes through life and attracts women along the way.

Both have game. PUA is more focus on women while Don Juan is more focus on his life. But both are successful with women. PUA stress outter game while Don Juan stress inner game. It's not to say one doesn't have outter or inner game, they have both but in varying degree.

So just ask yourself this. Do you go out alot (to clubs, bars, coffee shops, malls, parties, etc) to pick up women? If yes, then you are a PUA.

Now ask youself this, do you go do things that makes you happy like going hiking, travel, work, play sports, etc but when you meet an attractive women along the way then you turn on your charm and attract them. If this is your view point, then you are a Don Juan.

In other words, if women is your priority, then you are a PUA. If women is secondary, then you are a Don Juan.

That's how I view the two.
 

izza

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It's Natural, isn't it?

Ok, before I post I should add that I know nothing. I am a chump.

Nonetheless, why do we need advanced techniques, why do we need a great amount of specificity?

BAP, what, precisely, would you like to see more posts about? What "advanced techniques" did you have in mind?

Having said this, it's important to keep in mind one of the golden rules of my life, that I suck at following (but am working on):

Either you are yourself, or you're someone else. There is no grey area, there is no middle ground.

This is simple and profound, but difficult to follow.

Broadly speaking, being someone else means conforming to other people's expectations or desires towards your personality or behavior. Being yourself means acting in conformity with your own desires. The difference between the two is represented by an emotion - being someone else feels vaguely empty, being yourself takes more courage but just feels right.

So if you accept my golden rule as the best way to live, it follows that advanced techniques are of questionable utility. It doesn't mean this board is useless... far from it! But it does follow that greater specificity of recommended action (after the 2nd push/pull manoeuver then go for a Kino on the shoulder, but not too high, a little near the edge...) is useless. Basically, "advanced techniques," defined as highly specified manoeuvres to get women, would pull you away from acting in conformity with your own style and personality. Put another way, you would lose the flexibility of action that comes with doing whatever you feel like.

Personally, I feel that the quest for DJdom isn't a quest for techniques, or even experience, it's a quest to find out who you like being and to give you the courage to be that person every day. This board can show you where the path begins, it can give some support along the way, but how can it help otherwise?

If you are acting like a person you like, who you truly are, women are more attracted to you, aren't they? If a woman doesn't like who you are, you find one that does later. There is no confusion since no woman is attracted to you for something you are not. You're right that you're almost always picking up women who have already decided they like you, but that's pretty much how it works, isn't it?

I'm always a fan of your posts bro, you rock heh. I look forward to your response.
 
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fyrefly

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DAMNIT LIT WRITE SHORTERS POSTS I'M TIRED.
 

You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Blackdragon5095

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Maybe people should do more successful stories. I do notice a change myself. Women at my job ( I have 2 jobs ) notice me and want to talk and be around me. Even at my career school. But it's not 100% because of self-improvement. It's because I'm not needy as I used to be. I put up with less bullcrap with women. Every time I see a girl I'm interested in I don't say ( I'm good enough I'm good enough) I say ( she is good enough, she isn't gonna be some bimbo with no conversation skills or some rude
b!t(h ) I agree I'm sadly not learning as much.

Maybe someone should start a new forum or Some of us guys should learn from each other mistakes.
 

BrotherAP

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Quote Izza
being someone else feels vaguely empty, being yourself takes more courage but just feels right.

What is 'being myself'?

I have no idea. Who the hell am I anyway? I've changed so much in the last few years that I'm constantly finding new ways to define myself. Afterall, what is life if not one big identity crisis?

I'm not talking about being anybody but myself. I'm not a fan of routines, lines, canned openers or even well tested techniques. I do, however, learn by example, and I love reading what other people have success with. If it sounds like fun to me, and has good results, I might not remember it exactly but it will somewhere stay dormant in the back of my head.

A well written tip will tell me something that works, and then why it works. When I know the why I don't need a what. Before reading certain postings here, I never understood the importance of eye contact. I didn't understand what made a cool guy seem cool. I never realized that I could come off as too friendly. It never even occured to me that I avoided eye contact with girls I like most. Somewhere along the line I'd trained myself to hide my interest.

The more I read what works and what doesn't, the better I understand why. The better I understand why, the easier it gets to do all of the right things naturally. I gain knowledge by reading, and I learn by applying.

This is all a game to me right now. I'm having fun, and putting no pressure on the results. I never fret about sleeping alone, especially since I've already managed to attract more girls than I need at the moment. I choose to be by myself until I meet a girl worth having.

So I'm still myself. In fact, trying to be the best at something (as opposed to being content with being 'good') is one hundred percent me. Once I've made a commitment to learn something, I become as good as I can possibly be.

I'm not looking for some magic bullet for girls, or for some way to be anything other than myself. Many of these techniques have made me a better conversationalist. Not only have others been more interested in what I have to say, I myself have been more interested. In both cases, I'm glad I've made the improvement.

Maybe "advanced techniques" isn't the right term. I'd like to see more discussion about what to do once you've already gotten a girl's attention. I want to see posts about what kills attraction. Signs that a girl is leading you on, but not that into you really. I want to know what approaches fail, or what ways to approach simply kill your game. I want to first kill my bad habits, so that I can develop my own good ones. These are all things we should discuss.

I've always done fine with girls - but obviously my game isn't where I want it to be, or I wouldn't be here.


Quote BlackDragon5095
Maybe people should do more successful stories.

Not a bad idea, and I've been trying. Successful stories are always good to read for some, and to others they just seem like bragging. Often I'll have a FR two-thirds written, and I realize that I'm just excited that I got this girl or that girl, and really wonder if I'd be contributing by posting it. These FR never see the light of day. Maybe I'll reconsider, if there's any demand for it


Maybe someone should start a new forum or Some of us guys should learn from each other mistakes.


We have a forum - right here! We can post all we want here, and improve the quality overall. Nothing bad can be said about that. Perhaps we'll end up leading a new era of AFCs the way Pook, Anti-Dump, Sr. Fingers, Player_Supreme and others have done before us. If we're the ones putting in the ground work, we might as well share what we learned with others


BrotherAP :D
 

Skydiver43127

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Maybe people should do more successful stories.
That's true. Unsuccessful ones too, but both without unnecesarry detail. I mean - common, do I really have to read one page of unnecesary stuff that the guy obviously made up on the spot to fill the blanks.
 

Swoop

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Originally posted by BrotherAP

We have a forum - right here! We can post all we want here, and improve the quality overall. Nothing bad can be said about that. Perhaps we'll end up leading a new era of AFCs the way Pook, Anti-Dump, Sr. Fingers, Player_Supreme and others have done before us. If we're the ones putting in the ground work, we might as well share what we learned with others


BrotherAP :D
It would be wonderful to see the second coming of Great Masters. There are a few posters here that has potential to reach that level.
 

Jay-X

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Originally posted by Swoop
It would be wonderful to see the second coming of Great Masters. There are a few posters here that has potential to reach that level.
oh God, may I be one of them!
 

It doesn't matter how good-looking you are, how romantic you are, how funny you are... or anything else. If she doesn't have something INVESTED in you and the relationship, preferably quite a LOT invested, she'll dump you, without even the slightest hesitation, as soon as someone a little more "interesting" comes along.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Sapiens

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I love this thread.

I have found out that the biological difference and purpose of women dictate their perspective.

They know they have something everyman wants, yet they don’t know or realize how we feel about that something they have. Heck, most men could not verbalize or describe in a coherent way how they feel or why they are attracted to women. They would look at you as if you are a moron for asking, like it should be clearly obvious to you without rationalization.

The biological imperative has made subtle changes in the chemistry of men and women. So men are more logical and women more emotional. Why is this so? My simple explanation is this: If women were more logical, there would be no successful rate of reproduction, the unknown risk and expense of raising an offspring is too great to base it on a logical decision, while men’s risk of getting pregnant is nil.

As to the PUA, Don Juan issue; I agree with you. A Don Juan must be a proPUA. Now picture a woman going through all the things we have gone through to become DJ’s? Don’t you think she would be going through the same think looking for that confident, self-actualized Don Juan?

-Sapiens
 

Blackdragon5095

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Quote BrotherAP

Not a bad idea, and I've been trying. Successful stories are always good to read for some, and to others they just seem like bragging. Often I'll have a FR two-thirds written, and I realize that I'm just excited that I got this girl or that girl, and really wonder if I'd be contributing by posting it. These FR never see the light of day. Maybe I'll reconsider, if there's any demand for it

I strongly agree. We don't need bragging or Fake stories.

Skydiver43127

That's true. Unsuccessful ones too, but both without unnecesarry detail. I mean - common, do I really have to read one page of unnecesary stuff that the guy obviously made up on the spot to fill the blanks.


I love that idea. The best way to learn is the hard way. Learning what you did wrong and fixing it up will help people know what to do the next time.

Galileo: You can not teach a man anything; you can
only help him to find it within himself=-

I problay start doing that myself soon after I finish up learning about conversation and learn a little more about Emotional Intelligence ( this will help with self-control ).
 

Sirducer

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No offence guys but from what Ive seen is an mASF based PUA, craps all over a DJ... :)
 

manuva

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Originally posted by Sirducer
No offence guys but from what Ive seen is an mASF based PUA, craps all over a DJ... :)
Dodgy f*cking commie bastard!
 

Channel your excited feelings into positive thoughts and behaviors. You will attract women by being enthusiastic, radiating energy, and becoming someone who is fun to be around.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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