The Direct vs Indirect Faceoff

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

.

Greetings to all my Don Juan's, Alpha Males, and even the Beta Males.

I'm here to share my knowledge, insight, and wisdom on the debate between which works better as it pertains to communicating your sexual desires with women (or otherwise).

Just a little backstory for those that don't know...

Dating coach and book author Alan Roger Currie (The King of Verbal Seduction and Direct Verbal game), pioneered and revolutionized the dating game with his book "Mode One: Let the Women Know What You're Really Thinking".

Amazon.com

The man passed away a couple years ago, but his legacy and work lives on.

As a distant student of his, most of my "teaching" points comes from his work...however, having had my own experiences dealing with women, I've been able to tweak certain nuances from his thought and have made it my own.

I've dealt with literally hundreds of women as it pertains to Cold Approach and Mode One philosophy.

Through those experiences, I've gained knowledge, insight, and wisdom; of which I'm here to share.

In this thread, my aim is to provide an ultimate, in-depth breakdown of why I believe a direct approach will suit men better when dealing with women, as opposed to the indirect approach.

To make it even more clear; I support, endorse, and advocate the direct approach..so much so that I'm tempted to be of the opinion that the indirect approach is beta-soft .

Now, I won't go that far, but I will say that if indirect guys can still be classified as alpha, then direct guys should be classified as apex.

In this thread, I will give in depth analysis on indirect game vs direct game, dedicating an entire post to both concepts.

This thread is meant to inspire men to level up.

If you think you are an alpha-male and you advocate indirect game, cool.

But just know there's an even higher level you can aspire to reach, which is the APEX level...the level I'm currently on.

Not many men are on this level, it is lonely..and I would love to see other guys up here with me.

This post just a long ass prelude, in my next post I will cover indirect game, providing analysis, insight, and share real life examples.

I promise I will keep the stories entertaining/interesting.

Stay tuned.

 

[Ricky]

Somewhere i saw someone debate this.. essentially direct game saves time but has lower success rates. There are women who you might have gotten if you instead started indirect.

 

[SW15]

I think it is possible to use both indirect and direct.

I think there's a good case for going indirect with indoor retail venues. Mall security and store/venue employees might kick you out of the establishment for going direct. It's a risk. Indirect could be a better option in malls, bookstores, grocery stores, and gyms/fitness class venues. Of those venues, going direct on a gym floor is something that's possible. Going direct after a bougie fitness class like Title Boxing or SoulCycle is less of a good idea.

The better venues for going direct would be nightlife venues and any outdoor non-bar venue.

 

[Agamemnon43]

Use direct approach sometimes after you get to know her better, for shock effect:

Her: "Why are you so silent?"

You: "Actually all I can think of right now is how I would rearrange your guts"

She might get repulsed at first because she has to, but she won't be able to stop thinking about it. Until you DO rearrange her guts.
But don't be like that all the time. You can be both a sophisticated bastard with an emotional connection and a sex maniac alpha chad thunderc0ck at other times. And shes gonna like it.

UNfortunately, for openers, you can't use too much direct talk these days, you can get into trouble. First impression must be a bit nicer.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Venom!! Preach!!

My boys and I had a running joke a couple years ago, they used to call me Mach One

Mode One for someone who is positive they don’t want all the trappings of a relationship is absolutely perfect.

Women are absolutely down with this. Don’t discount the power of direct interaction and verbal seduction. Successful sales professionals will understand this easier maybe than some others.

You also have to remember that being direct is not necessarily a one night stand. It’s simply being direct in your intention. This trips a lot of guys up.

 

[Agamemnon43]

I think that phrase 'rearrange your guts' isn't arousing or sexy.

When women ask me why I'm silent or appear thoughtful, I've actually gone with: "I was wondering what you'd look like in bondage."

Well I don't remember if I've used that specific phrase myself, I've just seen it alot on these internet memes that women make; ie. "how I sleep after getting attention and my guts rearranged" etc. (she sleeps smiling)

Your response with bondage is actually better, just make sure she isn't the type to run away and call the police.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Use direct approach sometimes after you get to know her better, for shock effect:

Her: "Why are you so silent?"

You: "Actually all I can think of right now is how I would rearrange your guts"

She might get repulsed at first because she has to, but she won't be able to stop thinking about it

She'll be saying to herself: "I've been in the company of this century's answer to Eddie Gein for over a month now...."

 

[Lotus Effect]

When women ask me why I'm silent or appear thoughtful, I've actually gone with: "I was wondering what you'd look like in bondage."

Now that's a line that works!

 

[Lotus Effect]

Very good topic to debate Venom, to open the audience eyes on the transition from boy into man.

But, nothing new under the sun.

To me it is very clear now, as it should be to most of the mature audience.

Indirect game is for beginners.

You don't know what you were doing, you don't know what you are supposed to do, so indirect works like a crutch/training wheel.

You then go out there, get results, life happens, you discover your sexuality, and bam!, you are now ready for direct game.

You can't give direct game to a youngster, because since it is not going to be natural, or, naturally connected to his sexuality - which is inexistent at that time - it will just come across creepy, borderline criminal. That's when the cops arrive, or the mace is pulled out of the purse.

Direct game is 100% linked to experience, and how natural and comfortable you feel about your manhood and sexuality.

In the end, is not about the message... It's about the messenger


Side note:
Again, when in doubt, Pook said it better than us all this years ago.
Just refer to him:

Lesson 8: Only the Sexual Ones get the Girls.
Embrace your own sexuality. Be a guy, talk like a guy, act like a guy. Do action things. It is one thing to talk about things you love, but most guys talk about things just to talk.

Lesson 9: Be Not Contained by Formula.
The point of Manual is not to grant you success. If you do, you will forever be under his dictatorship. The entire reason why Manual exists is to not grant you success but illustrate the means of success.

Lesson 8 is clearly talking about the Direct approach, whereas Lesson 9 is clearly talking about Indirect Game.

No need for false Messias.
The answer is always in the gospel hahaha

Cheers guys.

 

[Manure Spherian]

which is the APEX level

Do you consider Johnny Depp, Tom Brady, Brad Pitt, and Will Smith APEX males? They leveled up quite a bit.

 

[BPH]

Do you consider Johnny Depp, Tom Brady, Brad Pitt, and Will Smith APEX males? They leveled up quite a bit.

Really?

Depp stayed in an abusive relationship that pretty much destroyed his career...

Tom Brady despite being one of the best athletes in the world got cheated on in his marriage and ended up divorced...

And Will Smith got cucked so hard by Jada that he ended up destroying his career AND had a whole song published by his son's friend who slept with his wife (Entanglement)...

I don't know if Brad Pitt has any skeletons in his client from his time with Angelina. These men are good-looking and successful, but I don't think that automatically makes them "apex".

 

[SW15]

You also have to remember that being direct is not necessarily a one night stand. It’s simply being direct in your intention. This trips a lot of guys up.

Direct vs. indirect is solely about your initial opener and first minute of conversation. Someone who uses a more indirect opener can steer the conversation towards a more romantic/sexual frame within a few minutes and make it clear that they are seeking some sort of romantic interaction. Going "direct" is just having a more sexual or more flirty initial line.

 

[ManlyMan]

I like using both. There are 2 things that determine whether I will go indirect or direct. If there are people standing close by I will go indirect. I have found that the people surrounding you can impact her decisions.

Second what type of women is she? Which women to approach or even to direct or indirect is more of a gut feeling for me these days based on a lot of approaches. If I am not sure I will go indirect and find out. But 98% percent of the time I know before I approach the woman if she is worth approaching and if I will go direct or indirect.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I'm definitely indirect.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

I'm definitely indirect.

Why?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It even works on 70+ grannies!

 

[BillyPilgrim]

It even works on 70+ grannies!

If you go indirect, there may not be enough time

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

It even works on 70+ grannies!

Yes, it can even work on your granny!

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

If you go indirect, there may not be enough time

Very funny.

Or, after you smash them..you will have them saying "Now, I can finally die".

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

.

In this post, I'll cover why I think the indirect approach, while it can work, it's less effective than the direct; particularly as it relates to casual sex.

Why is the indirect approach less effective than direct?

Because it is a gamble.

Yes, a gamble.

When a man is indirect with a woman, he is gambling with his..

1. Time: Spending countless minutes talking to an attractive woman in person in an attempt to be charming or funny in order to build rapport.

Or countless hours talking to a woman on the phone to achieve that same goal.

2. Money: Spending money for dates and/or drinks on women, in order to build rapport.

3. Ego: A man's ego (pride, self-esteem, confidence) is more likely to be damaged with an indirect approach.

Strictly in terms of protecting ones peace of mind (ego), the indirect approach fails...or is at least less effective than direct.

Time. Money. Ego.

(TME).

A man will take a gamble with his TME for the possibility of sex (Alan Roger Currier's book: The Possibility of Sex).

I will share my experiences with each aspect of TME.

Time: A few months ago, I was at Fry's grocery store, which is my favorite grocery store chain to cold approach besides Walmart.

I walked through the store and scanned for any viable candidates for an approach..which turned up nothing.

I grabbed a few items to purchase and headed to checkout.

While at the self checkout machine, I looked up and noticed a Black, older, thick woman who worked at the bank inside the store.

She seemed to be looking my way at me.

So, I decided to go over and holla at her..which is what I did.

After purchasing my items, I went over to speak to her.

She was the only person working at that time, and she had a nice, hefty rack..which I noticed with ever step of getting closer to her.

Perfect candidate.

I approached the counter and gave her my typical "Are you single?" opening line.

She said yes, and from there I took a seat in the patron chairs at the counter...and she took a seat behind the counter, and we began to converse.

Now, during the conversation with this woman..I was polite, charming, and funny.

She laughed at my jokes and seemed very much interested in my company.

We sat there, undisturbed for no less than half hour, which damn near felt like a first date.

We had nice chemistry..she got to know a little about me, and vice versa.

After about a half hour of good vibes, we were interrupted by actual bank patrons.

I excused myself, while at the same time writing down my number on the back of a business card, and prompted her to hit me at her leisure.

Now, you'd think that based on all that vibing and chit chat, she'd hit me up, right?

Well, guess what?

Never heard from her again.

All I put into it, only to be ultimately rejected.

All that, for nothing.

So, by her not contacting me, she rejected..

1. Any phone conversations.
2. Any dates.
3. And most importantly, any sex.

Based on this^, it is safe to say that besides flattering conversation for her, the conversation meant nothing.

So in essence, I wasted time.

.......

Or, how about this..

You invite a chick over to you crib to "chill".

You want to smash, but you don't tell her this because you think that being too direct will turn her away.

So you invite her over for a "Netflix & Chill" night, and whatever happens, happen.

So, she comes over..and you two are vibing; watching a movie, talking, chilling.

Everything is going well, so you decide to progress things, by beginning to kiss her.

She offers no objections, so you begin to progress things further by attempting to undress her.

She stops you "Uh, uh. You didn't say we were gonna do any of this. You said we were gonna watch a movie and chill".

You think "Well, biitch, what do you think I invited you over for?"
.....

I've never been in that situation before, but many guys have.

You see, being indirect leaves the door open for misunderstandings, and disappointments.

Now, you just wasted time by taking a gamble with the possibility of sex..and you lost.
.......

Money: Question.

Would you take a woman out on a date (and undoubtedly pay for her meal), if you KNEW that she ultimately won't have sex with you?

Probably not.

But, since you don't know whether she will have sex with you, you take her out on a date based on the possibility that she will.

But that is a gamble.

Suppose you take a woman out on a date (or multiple dates), and in the end, you never came close to smashing?

You've wasted time, and money.

How many of you guys have been there?

You would have been better off taking the money you wasted on the date, and hiring a prostitute or escort.

At least you are guaranteed to have sex and get your rocks off.
.....

Listen, women have been known to use men for their non-sexual time and money.

A woman will go out on a date with a man without having any intentions of having sex with him.

Many men have testified to this, and many women have admitted this.

And that is why going indirect is less superior than direct.

Going indirect leaves the door open for "You didn't say X" nonsense..

or, "I never said I would do Y" bulljive.
.....

Ego: Disappointments from indirect can lead to bad vibes and bruised egos.

But since most guys never even give direct game a consideration, they will keep repeating the cycle until they finally hit the jackpot.

But there is a better, more efficient way.

Now, can you achieve success with being indirect? Sure.

But, it can come at a cost.

A TME cost.

The Direct Approach is next .