The Baby Bust Generation

[WestCoaster]

Pook, it's one thing to converse, another ...

... to pontificate.

Your constant corrections on what we say is agonizing.

You have some legendary posts in the DJ Bible and most of us appreciate that good work.

But frankly I don't have time to read through your soapbox diatribes on how we're all wrong, you're right, or the latest website you looked up is right and anything we've read is wrong.

Give it a rest.

There's discussion, there's preaching, and there's a huge difference between the two.

 

[Abnigh9]

Re: Pook, it's one thing to converse, another ...

Originally posted by WestCoaster
... to pontificate.

Your constant corrections on what we say is agonizing.

You have some legendary posts in the DJ Bible and most of us appreciate that good work.

But frankly I don't have time to read through your soapbox diatribes on how we're all wrong, you're right, or the latest website you looked up is right and anything we've read is wrong.

Give it a rest.

There's discussion, there's preaching, and there's a huge difference between the two.

He's not preaching, rather discussing in great length of what he believe is truth to him. I find all his talking extremely useful whether it's on women or on... just nothing. He never stated how he's always right or the latest website he looked up is be all end all. He's only stating, with facts backed up for him, that he believes could be useful for our daily life living and our belief system.

If you don't like what he say, well frankly, I think you should just stop posting for a while and just read. You can't change people. He's going to do it to you no matter what.

 

[Abnigh9]

Originally posted by dietzcoi
Pook, you are losing it here. Do you have children? I have three.

I'm not sure, what is he losing? He's going to stay legendary here and on. I'm no nut-hugger but when I see that a man has accomplished a lot especially in helping a community out before himself, I am more than willing to die for him.

By the way, I have 4 kids, all doing pretty good in life, what's your point?

I have sacrificied my freedom and independence for them. For nothing. NOTHING!

I have sacrificed nothing and they have gained everything. This is the thinking of a poor father, "because I have you kids, I am poor" while a rich father like me think, "I am rich because I have you kids."

WHat does anybody care if I was a good father?

Nobody cares because they have their own life. You cannot center your world on others. That is, to say, "look at me, I am a good father, now praise me!" No no, there are countless other philothranpist (spelling?) and people that adopt kids that are not theres. I think that makes a person better than a father. I think I'm going to adopt a few more kids to raise them. I hate to see suffering.

I was AFC and followed the norms of "society"... for what? A divorce, loss of $100,000s, and nothing to show for it.

That's when you were an AFC. Now you're a DJ. If you get married again, do not let it happen again.

Now I have a new way of life: It is about the Individual! You only live once!
How many chumps sacrificed thier lives for some ideal that turned out to be BS?? I am talking about young men who charged enemy trenches in many wars for nothing!
What was changed by World War One lasting four years! The world changed for the worse!

The world intend on changing for the worse only to get better. If those men did not fight for us, we would be speaking in German and Japanese today. Albeit, it was countless loss of life. Sadly, noone gained fame except for those who took lead. Pretty sad and unfair world we live in.
What you're saying is pretty idealistic too, but it isn't going to happen for anyone but yourself.

All you chumps sacrificing your lives for a woman, or children, or religion, or for a political belief, you are all being duped.

Sacrificing life for a religion, political belief, and woman is pretty pathetic, I have to agree. But children? **** YOU. I love my children! They are what pass down my generation. They are what brings light to other world. They take part in today's society and norm regardless of who they are.

My children mean much more than myself. I have four kids, all of whom will develop their own sense and belief. Not for me, but for themselves.

Don't be selfish, individualism does not state anywhere to be selfish. Otherwise people, me, and many others will simply label you selfish horny **** regardless of what you do. Individualism has virtue too.

You only live once, don't waste it! Live YOUR life and don't let anybody tell you what you HAVE to do with it. Do what you want.
(Note this does not mean commit crimes, etc. You still have to live ethically)

Have you ever wonder, philosophy do contradict themselves.

Live! You will regret it later if you don't!
Dietzcoi

I haven't read all of it because I just got back from a meeting that I was invited to attend in for IBM. Not too bad.. in fact, too impressive. Anyway, because I haven't read it, don't quote me because of something I missed.. I do NOT mean to disrespect.

 

[Abnigh9]

Originally posted by dietzcoi
I my experience having children has proven to consume much more of my "resources" (Time, money, emotions, etc) than I ever got back. Much more! I wasted 15 years of my life for NOTHING!

Again, a poor man thinks everything is out there to get him while a rich man does not. A poor man thinks the obstacle, the big giant rock [his children] as a curse while the rich man think of the giant rock as a blessing.

It is just not worth it. So what if the population declines?

The selfish man is nothing but a snake. All alone looking to consume only to get himself killed one day along the luck.

You have only one life. Do you want to waste it with marriage, family, baby carriages, bills, diapers, etc,etc? I know I did but I finally WOKE UP!

Uh, no. I wanted to too, and my dream true. My son and I discuss philosophies, politics, etc. It's interesting to know what they have learned throughout their own studies. We play balls, we spar. It's fun. I don't see why it would consume my life or how it does. Maybe YOU'RE a bad father. Who knows, but the point is, you're basically saying all children, old men, etc should be sent to hell because they're useless.

Oh and btw, bills is the only thing I hate but EVERYBODY, no matter who, no matter how, get away from it. Unless you decide to change identity... that would render a totally different lifestyle and thinking.

This is about the individual. you only live once. Those with 8 kids will suffer in our society. (In Africa it may be different as they can work the farm, etc).

Hm... assuming you do not bring other third world country, in United States, not all parents with 8 children will suffer. I have half of what they have and plan on getting more only because it gives me great joy to see them smile. Sure sometime they might be annoying or whatever, but it's just like raising a pet. Only difference is the raiser (you).

We have created a society of wealth and leisure. We live better than 99.9 % of people have ever lived.

Ahem...

Can you blame people for wanting to have vacations, leisure time, big cars, adventures, skiing, whateever, instead of wasting thier lives on child-rearing?

Child-rearing? Wtf does that mean?
I'm gonna put it this way, how is raising a child a curse? Do you hate yourself because you were once a child? How about your parents? You must've really hate them huh? Wtf did the society ever do to you? NOTHING. You're just pathetic. You and your rambling on how "oh my bills, my kids, my wife, they all suck". YOU GOT YOURSELF INTO THIS. You wanted a wife, you wanted the kids. With an exception of bills, you wanted all the others. You thought it was easy, you thought it was fun. You didn't plan it out. You just did it. I plan all of my kid's future out. I plan it 100%. I write a book-length on how they will be raised (everyone has a different way).

Put it this way, RESPECT IS EARNED. MOST PARENTS DO NOT DESERVE TO BE RESPECTED. Some of them like YOU.

Besides, what is the point of producing children? Just so they can produce children and so on??? THat is what mindless animals do....

Right, go suicide now. Since you're mindless animals. You're pathetic. We're not trash, mindless animals, pathetic apes, etc. We're not god, goddess, etc either. We just are. It is YOUR current mindset that render your life a pain.

There are already far too many people on earth, so I do not see this as a problem.
Dietzcoi

Neither do I, your life is too good. And you're still complaining.

 

[Abnigh9]

Re: Excellent post dietczoi

Originally posted by WestCoaster
We should all read nomarriage.com, which is a tad cynical but on the money.

Then again, the nomarriage.com creator probably does not have knowledge on the financial subject.

I think dietczoi has read it or at least subscribes to its theories.

Women and children are not the panacea to life. They can add to it, they can also subtract from it.

Sure, the problem is always THEY THEY THEY. Never you, right? You're never the problem. We're the one that created the roof, house, started the wars, wrote most of the political subjects, etc. Yet we're not the problem right? Yeah, they didn't do anything (children and women), kill them. They're everything to blame! NOT MEN!

Think about this, if your kids are not behaving the way you want them to, why is that? Is it because all children are stupid? All children are pathetic and know nothing?

Think carefully, it might even be you.

We've bought into a lot of myths in this world -- me included.

It's what create questions like why and how. That's how the society advances.

Having more morons in it won't help, and trust me, I'd say more than 1/4th of this world is just sucking in oxygen and not doing anything to improve it.

True. Although more discipline brought into this world would help. Better yet, a one-world gov't.

Sadly dietczoi, you bought into societal pressures. I hope you've maintained some relationships with your children, that is if they're worth it.

Right... I should just drop my kids on their head the next time I have another one. Stomp on them and throw them in the trash hoping they don't get found.

Really, are children and wives that bad? Why the **** are you looking in the clubs for a good wife? Why didn't you go to another nation? Maybe marry a woman in China? German? Italy? It's not the beauty of the women, as that's what the first thing you guys look for in a women. Sure, I don't want a fat, overweight women fighting her way to get off the bed, but I do want a women (like men) who at least take care of themselves and have a good persona, enough to have her own discipline and belief.

I would say almost all of my friends are married (and I have a lot of them) and about 35 percent of them are happy in these relationships. I went to the weddings, saw the love and promise of the future.

I miss my wife.. damn NY.

Now I see bitterness and backbiting. No thanks, I'll stay a bachelor my whole life if that's what's down the road for me.

Hahah, good luck. There's a saying from my father, who was the greatest teacher I've ever had. "The man who makes his choice, makes his reality a truth to him."

You say bachelor is your way of life? By all means, live it. You say you want to be a good husband, by all means, live it. Not say it, not write it. LIVE IT. Too many people know how to reverse their debt, get a better job, write the best resume [than I can], make millions, etc. Too many people don't do it though, because of fear and laziness.

Good luck in your future dietczoi, sounds like you deserve some good times up ahead. Yes, help others, be ethical, but live for yourself!

 

[WestCoaster]

Great, another soapbox, just what we need

I'm glad you have a positive relationship with your kids and wife. That's great! More power to you. It's not for everyone, but it is for many.

Good luck in getting one world government or trying to discipline the lazy a$$es in this world. About half the people who had kids shouldn't have had them.

Now go back to picking apart my post and make sure to turn your bold key on ... ugh! And don't forget to genuflect in Pook's direction.

It's one thing to discuss, but you guys lecture and preach. You must be loads of fun at home.

 

[Abnigh9]

If you cannot stand the few words here, no wonder you can't seem to fare in rea life.

It's too bad I can't help you.

If you think it's our soapbox for our blah blah blah, then I have nothing but a good luck. You probably need it.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Abnigh9,

I have read all of Westcoaster's and dietzcoi's posts, in the last few months, and everything they have stated regarding women and marriage is true.

They speak truth - but in this thread they have personalized their disfavor towards the subject of children and family, and from their own personal perspective and experiences they have internalized the 'declining birth rate' issue.

I don't agree with their stance on wife, children, and family; however, I exactly understand their point - it is a valid one from 'their' personal experiences and perspective!

In fact, I have never been married for exactly the reasons that they have experienced and shared with us. The mindset and behavior of most women today do not make it a compelling case to take on such responsibilities as a husband and a father - they are correct in their assessment of marriage!

That is not to say that I will abandon hope in finding a woman with the right mindset to build a family - it has not happened in the last 25 years, chances are slim that it will happen anytime soon!

 

[Abnigh9]

If you have bad experience, you must change.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Originally posted by Pook
I don't know exactly what has distorted sexuality except our unwillingness to objectively examine it.

I do not blame politics and petty ideas for distorting sexuality, I blame politics and petty ideas for blocking any honest exploration.

How often have I posted in the last 12 months? I post a couple of posts on a subject and I become 'delving too much' on the matter?

What is more interesting is not what I post, but what I do not post. Stop psycho-ananlyzing the pook. He rarely posts anyway.

I don't know you, so why would I even attempt to 'psycho analyze' a person who I don't know and who has no bearing on my life?

The only posts that I have read of yours were the ones on "society and sexual distortion' and the ones where you protect the merits of sosuave.com. You misinterpreted my comments! I am not referring to the 'frequency' of your posts on a subject, rather I am referring to your consistent political/religious remarks when you discuss sexuality and its' distortion.

You say these institutions are the culprits who keep the objective discussions of sexuality out of the public domain. All of my posts on this thread are challenging this assumption, and I directly state those who are the true culprits of distorting sexuality.

Originally posted by Pook
Too often we always wondered whether sexuality was distorted or not.

The collapsing birth rate signals that, yes, there is a problem in our understanding of sexuality.

Governments and academics are reacting to this new variable. What ought they to make of it?

You declare that you want to have a public forum where we can objectively talk about sexuality and its’ distortion, without barriers from political or religious leaders? This forum on sosuave.com is exactly for this purpose - what better place is there to discuss this objectively?

All of my posts are directly dealing with your main question on this thread, and yet you ignore the underlying factors that I state and take tidbits of quotes that are a small part of my message. You must take the message in its’ entirety to get the full meaning! You have gone on various tangents throughout this thread – why not get on point and ‘focus’ on the issue at hand?

Let’s seek understanding on this ‘distortion. Not to say that the distortion of sexuality is the only factor involved in the declining birthrate, but it can be a focus for our discussion on this forum.

To get to the root of ‘sexual distortion’, we must get into the mindset of the masses and the changes in that mindset of the last 40 years, and the underlying influences and causes that have made us to distort sexuality, and for what purpose.

You wanted to get to the ‘underlying’ cause of this problem of distorted sexuality and/or our lack of understanding sexuality. The declining birth rate was not the main focus of your thread it is only an effect of this distorted sexuality. Since the declining birthrate is an emotional issue, it seems that most remarks will be regarding this and not on your main issue of why you started this thread.

Please clarify if this is your intended purpose of this thread. If so, give me feedback on my suggested causes of this distortion.

And yes, this distortion of sexuality was talked about in DJ Fingers' thread.

 

[Nocturnal]

Pook, I hope you haven't abandoned this thread just yet. It seems as though you have your work cut out for you if you don't, however, seeing how many retorts have been thrown back in your direction. I think you're doing an excellent job making your point.

Originally posted by Pook
This article is a joke. I hope you guys see that now and don't get hookwinked in the future.

Let us leave behind the political prejudices and study sexuality boldly to see what conclusions it may give.

Although I have to say there are some things in that article that have some consistency, I'd say you've done a thourough job of debunking it and I commend you for seeing what I did not.

Originally posted by Pook
There was a Danish statician who was a member of Greenpeace who went BONKERS when he read this article:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.02/ffsimon_pr.html

His response was exactly like yours. After all, it goes against everything you've been told your entire life. So he set his graduate students to work on looking up Julian Simon's statistics in order to easily debunk them.

To his astonishment, he discovered that the statistics held up. It led to the creation of this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/102-4866613-0251317?v=glance&s=books)that rocked the academic world.

Pook, I read that article and it is very convincing. Junk science doesn't get enough attention because people aren't interested in what is ok; they're interested in what's not ok.

However, upon following your second link and skimming through a couple book reviews, I discovered a massive number of websites all containing evidence of false information published in Mr. Lomborg's book. It seems clear from the first article that when investigated, Simon's evidence held up. Lomborg's, on the other hand, even has an entire website devoted to his (intentional?) errors (hundreds, if I'm not mistaken). The website is located here: http://www.lomborg-errors.dk/

This illustrates even further how easy it is to become suckered into misleading "truths."

As far as sexuality goes, I think it will be self correcting in due time.

 

[WestCoaster]

A few clarifications

First off, I have no idea what this says, means, or attempts to portray:

********************
If you cannot stand the few words here, no wonder you can't seem to fare in rea life.

***************

What is rea life? And if it's REAL life, I'm doing well and how would you know how well I'm doing? Do you teach your four kids how to be judgemental -- and how to spell bad and write poorly constructed sentences?

To PRL, I'm not anti-children. As a matter of fact my brother and his wife had their first child yesterday and I'm very excited for them. They should have children. They are responsible, intelligent, caring, and will provide a nice upbringing for the child.

I just think about one-fourth of this country should not be having kids, and maybe that's up to a half. I have women friends of mine tell me all the time that their biological clock is running and they need to have kids. Never mind that none of them are married, don't want to be married, don't care who the sperm donor is, will have the kids in day care in no time, and are poor housekeepers and leave suspect social lives. Hey, this is the U.S., if your clock is running you better answer the call!!

Bullsh-t. Don't have kids if you're like that.

I think people who want kids should be COMMITTED to them, and committed to the union that created them, as in staying together. Kids from intact households fair much better than those from single families, and I have the studies and stats to prove it. As always there are exceptions and in abuse situations the child's welfare must come first.

More power to those having kids. The problem in this country are quacks who think people should be having more and more and people who shouldn't even be married or even in society are cranking them out. Just saw a large white trash family get out of their pickups a few hours, spewing four-letter words in front of the kiddies. Niiiiiiice.

Sorry I don't subscribe to the theory that everyone should be cranking out multiple kids. I actually think they should make people pass a test -- like a driver's license -- before they are allowed to have them.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Westcaoster, only 25-50%? I put the number in the 70 percentile range of those who shouldn't have children! Maybe over 90% if you agree that unmarried people should not give birth out of wedlock!

I see women, only women, yelling extreme profanities to their children in PUBLIC!!! What the hell are they doing to them in private!!!! These are babies of hors who had the baby from one of their ex-pimps!! Hors are having babies out of intercourse and NOT love!! This is why the children are so messed up in the head nowadays!!! No daddy in the household and no love - what a combination!!!

This is the 'total sexuality' that our culture has abandoned. Sex is now mainly a pleasure seeking device and no longer a door to a meaningful loving caring relationship to build a family!! Sexuality evolves around love, caring and responsibility - all these characteristics are needed to raise a family.

Women want babies for selfish reasons, "I want a baby!". You are not my wife hor!! "So, you don't have to be around!". These selfish hors care nothing about bringing a life into this world - they don't care if there is a father in the household, "just send me the money every month!!"

I had girls asking me to give them my seed! I rather spill my seed on the floor than to have a hor be the mother of my child!!! Women of the past would never have had the audacity to make such a request, let alone think of it!!!!!!!!!!

I blame us 'Baby Boomers" (39-57y/o's) for this tragic turn of events - for us not doing our divine duty in raising our children! And I directly blame the mothers the most for not cleaving to that which has came from their womb!

Children have been living without their fathers for millenniums – only until recent decades have mothers abandoned their main responsibility of caring and loving their children – and it has been the last two decades where children, en masse and by the tens of millions, have been abandoned and corrupted. This has wreaked havoc on families and society!

We turned our 'sexuality' from a divine and good purpose to one of physical lust permeating from our sexual organs - sex, sex, sex, sex!! Children are being born out of sex and not love, and this lack of affection is evident in the distorted and corrupted psyche of our youth today!! Anger, hate, rage, and loneliness seems to be filled in their hearts!

Sex is enjoyable, but it purpose was not for pleasure, its' purpose was for breeding - and the breeding process was made enjoyable so that procreation would be seen as a good and pleasant thing!!

The sexuality of our youth and society has been distorted for a reason! Refer to Fingers, "Society and sexual distortion" thread, it is discussed at length there!

 

[Abnigh9]

Nice, picking on my English [spelling and grammar error]. I'm not going to post anymore. This guy will pick even errors that have NOTHING to do with the discussion. You [WestCoaster] have just lost my respect.

 

[dietzcoi]

Westcoaster and PRL, thanks for the good words

Abnigh9, I stand by everything I said. If you think that because YOU seem to be an exception to the epidemic of divorce, family break ups, men getting screwed, good for you. You do not have to attack me just because you are Mr. Super Father/superhero.

What I have gone thru has happened to me, and if it happened to you, you would change your opinion very fast, believe me.

Abnigh9, I think maybe you are still AFC, or as PRL would say, the Matrix (conforming to societies' rules and sacrificing your manhood to be a "family man" chump) still has you!

I wonder why you are on this site if your life is wonderful as a married man????????

Dietzcoi

 

[dillin]

I have a question, and merely only a question. What happens when the people who created the problems in there own lands such as Pakistan, Mexico, and Africa move to all Western lands and the Western people are destroyed? Will the West look the same, will the culture be destroyed or will it merely be replaced by foreign people and culture?

 

[dietzcoi]

The same exact thing that happened to America when the Europeans who had overbred and filled up Europe fled to the USA and displaced the Native Americans.

YES, it changed completely!

What do you think Europe and the US will look like with mosques all over the place? What happened to the Aztec religion and culture when the Spanish came? It vanished! Mexico now is nothing like the Aztec Empire!

The west is in decline, so be it. It is not an excuse for you to marry and have 10 kids to try to stop it. You cannot stop it, and you will just fvck up your own life.

Dietzcoi

 

[Abnigh9]

Originally posted by dietzcoi
You do not have to attack me just because you are Mr. Super Father/superhero.

When did I attack you? I merely dissected your argument and attacked that. Quote me. You're attacking me in fact, insulting me with names. Yes, I am Superman, but Superman ain't here to save you from your troubled turmoil.

What I have gone thru has happened to me, and if it happened to you, you would change your opinion very fast, believe me.

Has happened to me, but before marriage.
I'm not stupid enough to marry a woman who I think will change.

Abnigh9, I think maybe you are still AFC, or as PRL would say, the Matrix (conforming to societies' rules and sacrificing your manhood to be a "family man" chump) still has you!

Yah? Maybe I am still a pathetic chump, but I've had my share, over 500 women shagged, over 30 long-term relationship, and 2 good marriage (ah damn NY again... )

I wonder why you are on this site if your life is wonderful as a married man????????

How's this put, my wife died, this site is NOT just for women, and I'm here to improve all other aspect of me.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Originally posted by dillin
I have a question, and merely only a question. What happens when the people who created the problems in there own lands such as Pakistan, Mexico, and Africa move to all Western lands and the Western people are destroyed? Will the West look the same, will the culture be destroyed or will it merely be replaced by foreign people and culture?

Dlilin, it is ok to say 'white' people, you don't have to use the word 'western' in it's place!

You must have been taught history in America, for you to have such a distorted view on reality - It is America and Britain (whites) who created the boundaries of Mexico, Pakistan and the whole middle east, and Africa through their conquer and division in the last few hundred years!

The middle east countries didn't exist until 1919 when the British carved it up to their liking. Ant the British split India and Pakistan, and created the current cultural and territorial dispute and warfare!

Mexico didn' exist until America carved it up in the 19th century - there is a propaganda movie in the theaters right now on this conquest - it is called the 'Alamo'. How America took territory from the spanish and called it their own!

Need I tell you of the rape of Africa in the last 400 years - every european country had a piece of Africa!!

Go to your library and look at a 19th and a 20th century map, and open your eyes to truth! All their problems were not created from within, they were created by their invaders!!

This is your insight and lesson for the day!!

 

[dillin]

The west is in decline, so be it. It is not an excuse for you to marry and have 10 kids to try to stop it. You cannot stop it, and you will just fvck up your own life.

AKA Kill whitey, kill whitey! Hey white man, don't try to stop anything beacause your lands and women are already being raped and killed as we speak, don't worry we wont hurt you next. *wink wink*

Funny thing is I'm not even white so don't try the "your a nazi!" line on me!

No hard feelings or anything here bro, just had to state my oppinion.

Dlilin, it is ok to say 'white' people, you don't have to use the word 'western' in it's place!

Yeah I know, but some people don't think "white" people exist since theres no such thing as race supposedly.

You must have been taught history in America, for you to have such a distorted view on reality - It is America and Britain (whites) who created the boundaries of Mexico, Pakistan and the whole middle east, and Africa through their conquer and division in the last few hundred years!

Ok, just to let you know I do my own research, I trashed most things I learnt in school because the things they teach you have a hidden politcal agenda.

The middle east countries didn't exist until 1919 when the British carved it up to their liking. Ant the British split India and Pakistan, and created the current cultural and territorial dispute and warfare!

The middle east countries didn't exist until 1919 when the British carved it up to their liking. Ant the British split India and Pakistan, and created the current cultural and territorial dispute and warfare![/QUOTE]

I agree with the first part, I'm willing to change my mind if you guys can tell me stuff I'm always open to new ideas so it's not like I'm closed minded. I'm NOT trying to defend anyone here I just like to add my thought on history, nobody should get offended because it's only the truth that needs to be opressed. Why would there be such a push to cover up something if it was false? There should be nothing to worry about so nobody should get angry just to let you know. BTW I like your oppinion PRL, you are saying some good stuff.

Need I tell you of the rape of Africa in the last 400 years - every european country had a piece of Africa!!

Sure, I wouldn't mind hearing about it always good to get others oppinions.