Taxes are Illegal.

[A-Unit]

For the unelightened individuals, the Powers to levy taxes are kept by the US Treasury. However, the collection arm, the IRS is not legally ALLOWED to take receipt of taxes.

You might think I'm crazy by now, but I'm not. Just ask any Accountant "willing" to get into it. Most of them dodge the topic, because it requires heavy understanding of laws in general and realizing MOST of what's present in the US today is illegal according to the constitution, but it is true.

For the mods, this isn't a political topic, more a topic to ENLIGHTEN the younger posters to the future of the country they're in, and frankly, what better place to post it than motivated horny, young guys, dead set on making big bucks??

Moreover, when you consider that EVERY level of income and expenditures are taxed, you come to realize the heavy-handedness with which taxes truly punish the American citizen. They're padded at every level.

If a business buys good to build a product, they're BUYING and someone is SELLING, so sales taxes are involved.
The business also incurs taxes just to exist, on its real estate, on its benefits, on its employees, and on and on. And being a GOOD business, they pass this on to the consumer in the form of HIGHER prices, because GOD forbid they should cut their profit margins!!
So when you buy, you're incuring their imbeded taxes, on top of being TAXED for buying their product, AFTER your income was ALREADY taxed.

You certainly don't have to care. I'm not posting to change the minds of those ignorant enough to avoid the basics of living in America. I wouldn't engage futile aims in the hopes of turning you. BUT, if you want to live here, for any length of time, you should be aware for your own sake of what your LAWS and RIGHTS are and if they're being protected or not.

The rabbit hole goes deeper, much deeper, and there's so who want to be Pollyannas about this and say "well, we're the best country, we're free, you can start a business, or be famous." All well and good, but that does not negate the attrition of personal rights which EVERY human being has by right of birth. Rights are not granted by laws or governments, instead, they're PROTECTED by them. Just as your right to land is protected by laws and possibly the military, so is your right to life and to defend that life by any means possible (though today you might end up in jail for manslaughter, since the attacker could be crazy and self defense might be a bit too severe, even if it meant your life).

I work side by side with Accountants, have read through the internet, and research the Constitution as I do quite often, and you'll see, that as our CONTROLLING document, nowhere is it allowed that TAXES can be collected or levied to the extent they are.

And if you want to ask me why this is so?

Because people ALLOW it. Generations forget, don't care, ignore, or just think happy thoughts, while laws come along, and when tax time swings around, they complain. There's why. Lethargy. Who cares? What can I do? How can I change this? Etc...

Fact remains, what happens if you DO NOT help?? What future can we expect?? The gov. is already trillions of dollars in debt, and with the babyboomer suffoning of trillions through Medicare and SS, there won't be shread of money left for us, and we'll likely face the HIGHEST taxes we've ever faced in history, all without proper representation or input.

Your options are care, or move. The third option is to stay, and be ignorant, but I hate that option and wouldn't recommend it. As it stands today, though, people are running in mud just trying to stay ahead, and it shouldn't be that way.

If you want links, I shall provide. As I've stated, any talk with an Accountant SHOULD reveal this little nugget, and maybe it will begin a landslide of awareness.


A-Unit

 

[Bible_Belt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

They are "illegal" in the sense that the gov't still puts you in jail or seizes your stuff if you don't pay and they catch you.

 

[NYtomb]

look up the name Joseph Banister for some more drama associated with this.

 

[Docs]

A-Unit, do you have research on the Canadian side of taxes?

 

[STR8UP]

So would it be more productive for you to start the "A-Unit Anti Tax Movement" to try to get taxes abolished, or would you be better off learning ways to legally reduce your PERSONAL tax burden?

Fact of the matter is, taxes are necessary for society as we know it, but that doesn't mean that there aren't ways to minimize your personal liability.

Personally, I would rather play the game to my advantage rather that try to change it. But that's just me....

 

[Create Reality]

Does anyone else think tax brackets are really stupid? I had the thought that instead of using brackets, taxation according to income should be based on a smooth function curve, and not a stepped function. When someone enters a higher tax bracket, right at the bottom, they could be LOSING money! Think about it... They get a ten dollar a month raise, and then they qualify for the higher bracket. Now they are being TAXED HEAVIER but making little if any more. It's a stupid system to use brackets instead of just using a linear or logarithmic or exponential function (or whatever works).

 

[Deep Dish]

Taxes are perfectly legal.

First, shall we begin with Article I, Section VIII of the Constitution:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.

I assume you are familiar.

Next, as I also assume you are familiar, with the sixteenth ammendment:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

The IRS has composed a nice article called “The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments” to combat cheap arguments made by “individuals and groups who oppose compliance with the federal tax laws.” You can read a PDF version (direct from the IRS) or a HTML version. Furthermore, the IRS refutes right here supposed arguments that, for instance, “Federal income taxes constitute a ‘taking’ of property without due process of law, violating the Fifth Amendment” and “The Sixteenth Amendment does not authorize a direct non-apportioned federal income tax on United States citizens.”

Also, it was ruled by a United States District Court in Snyder vs. IRS (1984) that “It is clear, however, that the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, a statute of Congress, gave the Secretary of the Treasury full authority to administer and enforce the Code, 26 U.S.C. s 7801, and the power to create an agency to administer and enforce the tax laws. See 26 U.S.C. s 7803(a). Pursuant to that legislative grant of authority, the Secretary created the IRS, 26 C.F.R. s 601.101, so that the IRS is an agency of the Department of the Treasury, created pursuant to Congressional statute.” Let us not forget that IRS Code section 6302(c) explicitly authorizes the use of government depositaries for the receipt of taxes imposed under IRS laws.

Why do people pay taxes? Because taxes are legal and you’ll go to prison if you refuse to pay.

I happen to work for the government and society would be (more) in the crapper if it wasn’t for taxes.

 

[backbreaker]

it's common.. well not common but it's true.. taxes, at least the way we pay taxes in the US are unconstitutational.

I will dive a little deeper in this, because this is something I spend alot of time researching, but I will try not to get to techicnal because I don't want to get banned for political reasons.

It's not so much that Taxes are illegal. The goverment can do anything they deem necessarly wthin reason to keep the country afloat.

However, the taxes we pay are to raise money to pay off the interest of the 8 trillion dollar fed reserve deficit.

The first time we, well not WE but this country was taxed was after the War with Great Britian in the 1700's.

The ironic thing about it is, one of the main reasons we revolted against Great Britian is because of taxes, only to have Andrew Jackson and comp establish taxes to pay for the subseeding war that had just taken place.

The goverment had borrowed money from the banks/people of the US in the form of Bonds and wouldn't have been able to pay them back without any taxes.

So with that said, taxes have been used for a long time, and have always been a major part of the country.

Now, I might be wrong about this, I very well might be, but I think I am right, but it's law to have to pay your STATE taxes, for residing in that state. Remember, this is not one country in the sense that there is one huge goverment, but 50 little goverments that act as one whole.

I live in Arkansas. Arkansas can charge me state taxes, and becuase I live in arkansas, I have to pay the state taxes. There are certain states (Florida, Delaware I think, Nevada I know has no business taxes) that don't have state taxes, but most do.

But that money is being put to great use in helping our schools, paying our teachers, taking care of our parks, afterschool programs, police offiers or what not.

One has to ask, WTF does the goverment, the FED goverment need to tax every freakin american then? Espically the amount that they do?

As of right now, as I previously stated, the american goverment, meaning the american people, are endebted to the Federal Reserve 8 TRILLION dollars. That break down to a little bit over 29k for every person that resides in the united states.

What we pay in taxes doesn't even cover the principal of that, just the interest. The Fed Reserve is conformed of I think 8 banks, it's either 8 or 13, with I believe 3 or 4 residing in the United States. Chase, Manhattan Bank and One more I can't seem to think of I know for sure.

One might also ask, in general, what is the basic reason why we are so damn endebted to the Fed Reserve in the first place?

In 1913, Woodrow Wilson passed the Act, I forgot the exact name, that made the Fed Reserve a private intity not controlled by the goverement. Around that same time, we were at war and were in debt and needed money. So they gave it to us without question, and continue to do so to this day, but they just charge an interest on it.

It costs nothing for the Fed Reserve to create money. Not nothing, but it costs them the exact same to create a 1 dollar bill as it does to create a 100 dollar bill. Meaning basically, money is printed out of thin air.

It's actually in the Fed Reserves best interest for us NOT to pay off the debt, the longer the debt isn't paid, the more interest raises, the more money in their pockets.

I know this is way off base, but anyone ever played MGS2? when they are reffering to "the patriots", I honestly think this is what they are reffering to. There are 8-13 people who control just about everything that goes on in this country.


There was a guy in Utah, I think this is who you are reffering to that just said " you know what.. **** it. I'm not paying these. They are unconstituational"

I don't know what the outcome was, but it's my feeling that, if the goverment wanted you to pay taxes... there isn't much you can do about it, and I'm not going to go to jail to find out if I can NOT pay taxes, when I have been paying them my entire adult life and I have managed. If they were taking food off my table, okay...

Chris Rock said it best, the Fed Goverment is like a group of pissed off lonesharks..

"yeah, we are going to take this out of your check every other week and.. just got good measure, we want fifeteen hundred dollars in april"


You are 100% correct in everything you state A-Unit. Technically speaking, the constituation states loud and clear that it's unconstituational for this country to be controlled by a private corporation, in any way shape or form. Meaning, we could revolt and just not pay it. There would be some outlash, but we technically could do it.

Everyone , or a large amount of americans, more than they could jail, could say, you know what.. **** it, we aren't paying taxes.

I do agree, something needs to be done, espically since we are off the gold standard. right now we are like an overvalued tech stock waiting to bust


America is a corp within itself, and financially speaking, it's one of the worst ran compaines I can think of.

 

[backbreaker]

Taxes are perfectly legal.

First, shall we begin with Article I, Section VIII of the Constitution:I assume you are familiar.

Next, as I also assume you are familiar, with the sixteenth ammendment:The IRS has composed a nice article called “The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments” to combat cheap arguments made by “individuals and groups who oppose compliance with the federal tax laws.” You can read a PDF version (direct from the IRS) or a HTML version. Furthermore, the IRS refutes right here supposed arguments that, for instance, “Federal income taxes constitute a ‘taking’ of property without due process of law, violating the Fifth Amendment” and “The Sixteenth Amendment does not authorize a direct non-apportioned federal income tax on United States citizens.”

Also, it was ruled by a United States District Court in Snyder vs. IRS (1984) that “It is clear, however, that the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, a statute of Congress, gave the Secretary of the Treasury full authority to administer and enforce the Code, 26 U.S.C. s 7801, and the power to create an agency to administer and enforce the tax laws. See 26 U.S.C. s 7803(a). Pursuant to that legislative grant of authority, the Secretary created the IRS, 26 C.F.R. s 601.101, so that the IRS is an agency of the Department of the Treasury, created pursuant to Congressional statute.” Let us not forget that IRS Code section 6302(c) explicitly authorizes the use of government depositaries for the receipt of taxes imposed under IRS laws.

Why do people pay taxes? Because taxes are legal and you’ll go to prison if you refuse to pay.

I happen to work for the government and society would be (more) in the crapper if it wasn’t for taxes.

While technically right, in the grand sheme of things, this country is a democracy, meaning it is ran by the people for the people. If enough americans, and do more than say, take stand, against taxes, at least being as outlandish as they can be, you can bet your bottom something would be done about it.

It takes more than a few people do to anything. To end slavery, it basically took the Union to realize it was going to loose it's greastest export (cotton) if the confederate broke off and created it's own country.

I wasn't born around watergate, but I could only imagine the uproar it took to get Richard Nixon out of office


But that is the way things Have to be. The people in office are public servants, and are there to impose the will of the people.

 

[NYtomb]

Your argument has a ton of holes and misinformation. I am not going to tear it apart but correct a few of the obvious things for the others and to keep this on topic.

it's common.. well not common but it's true.. taxes, at least the way we pay taxes in the US are unconstitutational.

I will dive a little deeper in this, because this is something I spend alot of time researching, but I will try not to get to techicnal because I don't want to get banned for political reasons.

It's not so much that Taxes are illegal. The goverment can do anything they deem necessarly wthin reason to keep the country afloat.

However, the taxes we pay are to raise money to pay off the interest of the 8 trillion dollar fed reserve deficit.

The first time we, well not WE but this country was taxed was after the War with Great Britian in the 1700's.

The ironic thing about it is, one of the main reasons we revolted against Great Britian is because of taxes, only to have Andrew Jackson and comp establish taxes to pay for the subseeding war that had just taken place.

Taxation without representation was the problem, not taxation.

The goverment had borrowed money from the banks/people of the US in the form of Bonds and wouldn't have been able to pay them back without any taxes.

So with that said, taxes have been used for a long time, and have always been a major part of the country.

Now, I might be wrong about this, I very well might be, but I think I am right, but it's law to have to pay your STATE taxes, for residing in that state. Remember, this is not one country in the sense that there is one huge goverment, but 50 little goverments that act as one whole.

I live in Arkansas. Arkansas can charge me state taxes, and becuase I live in arkansas, I have to pay the state taxes. There are certain states (Florida, Delaware I think, Nevada I know has no business taxes) that don't have state taxes, but most do.

But that money is being put to great use in helping our schools, paying our teachers, taking care of our parks, afterschool programs, police offiers or what not.

One has to ask, WTF does the goverment, the FED goverment need to tax every freakin american then? Espically the amount that they do?

As of right now, as I previously stated, the american goverment, meaning the american people, are endebted to the Federal Reserve 8 TRILLION dollars. That break down to a little bit over 29k for every person that resides in the united states.

What we pay in taxes doesn't even cover the principal of that, just the interest. The Fed Reserve is conformed of I think 8 banks, it's either 8 or 13, with I believe 3 or 4 residing in the United States. Chase, Manhattan Bank and One more I can't seem to think of I know for sure.

There are 12 Federal reserve districts/banks.

One might also ask, in general, what is the basic reason why we are so damn endebted to the Fed Reserve in the first place?

In 1913, Woodrow Wilson passed the Act, I forgot the exact name, that made the Fed Reserve a private intity not controlled by the goverement. Around that same time, we were at war and were in debt and needed money. So they gave it to us without question, and continue to do so to this day, but they just charge an interest on it.

incorrect. Our economy was booming during WWI. Before we committed troops we were manufacturing and selling goods to the allies while staying out. When the lusitania was sunk we sent troops and that was for a short period of time until the Versailles treaty ended the war. The fed reserve in 1913 was a watchdog agency with little if any power and no power to enforce. IT was also a lender of last resort. Basically it did absolutely nothing. The first war time period it started buying and selling government securities to fund a war was the WWII era.

It costs nothing for the Fed Reserve to create money. Not nothing, but it costs them the exact same to create a 1 dollar bill as it does to create a 100 dollar bill. Meaning basically, money is printed out of thin air.

They can make money from scratch but if they just let the presses run rampant we will have inflation. The FED is there to control the Money supply by several tools at its disposal (discount rate, variable reserve rate, and buying/selling government securities come to mind) in order to stabilize the economy and financial markets (it can only stabilize one or the other. impossible for both to be stable concurrently)

It's actually in the Fed Reserves best interest for us NOT to pay off the debt, the longer the debt isn't paid, the more interest raises, the more money in their pockets.

the interest rate is the effect of the money supply out there. More money in the system, lower rates, more spending and investment. Rates going up has a negative effect on investment and GDP decreases. THe Fed wanting a large national debt is laughable.

I know this is way off base, but anyone ever played MGS2? when they are reffering to "the patriots", I honestly think this is what they are reffering to. There are 8-13 people who control just about everything that goes on in this country.

Freemasons clandestinely rule the world...

There was a guy in Utah, I think this is who you are reffering to that just said " you know what.. **** it. I'm not paying these. They are unconstituational"

I don't know what the outcome was, but it's my feeling that, if the goverment wanted you to pay taxes... there isn't much you can do about it, and I'm not going to go to jail to find out if I can NOT pay taxes, when I have been paying them my entire adult life and I have managed. If they were taking food off my table, okay...

Chris Rock said it best, the Fed Goverment is like a group of pissed off lonesharks..

"yeah, we are going to take this out of your check every other week and.. just got good measure, we want fifeteen hundred dollars in april"


You are 100% correct in everything you state A-Unit. Technically speaking, the constituation states loud and clear that it's unconstituational for this country to be controlled by a private corporation, in any way shape or form. Meaning, we could revolt and just not pay it. There would be some outlash, but we technically could do it.

good luck with that

Everyone , or a large amount of americans, more than they could jail, could say, you know what.. **** it, we aren't paying taxes.

I do agree, something needs to be done, espically since we are off the gold standard. right now we are like an overvalued tech stock waiting to bust

funny

America is a corp within itself, and financially speaking, it's one of the worst ran compaines I can think of.

There are many legitimate issues on how things are being run. I have no argument with that but remember the gov isnt a corp being run for a profit so that mentality/mindset isnt there for daily operations.

 

[backbreaker]

Your argument has a ton of holes and misinformation. I am not going to tear it apart but correct a few of the obvious things for the others and to keep this on topic. Taxation without representation was the problem, not taxation.

Regardless of why they ran from the British Taxes, the fact is, they ran from them.

Take that into account with the fact that alot if not most americans didn't even have MONEY to pay taxes (alot of items were bartered) and you have issues for a country struggling to get on it's feet


You are making the assumption that everyone was 100% informed on what was going on, when in reality, there were alot more uneducated people then they are now.

you tell the average job 250 years ago that the problem is not taxation but taxation without representation, and he will tell you he doesn't care what the problem is, he still can't pay it.

There are 12 Federal reserve districts/banks.

sue me. I knew it was something around that, and I could have looked it up but given the fact that I gave an estimate in the first place, it should have been taken within the context of what was said.


incorrect. Our economy was booming during WWI. Before we committed troops we were manufacturing and selling goods to the allies while staying out. When the lusitania was sunk we sent troops and that was for a short period of time until the Versailles treaty ended the war. The fed reserve in 1913 was a watchdog agency with little if any power and no power to enforce. IT was also a lender of last resort. Basically it did absolutely nothing.

[/QUOTE]

If that is true, and the FACTS you state are, you still can't dispute that Wodrow Wilson presidental campaign was backed heavily by the same banks that now make up the federal reserve.

Also, it would mean that Wildrow Wilson would have absolutly no reason to make make the Fed Reserve a private intity.

The first war time period it started buying and selling government securities to fund a war was the WWII era.

WRONG!

It's a widly known fact that it's how they paid for the Civil war and the American Revolution. Now, it's the first time the FED RESERVE did that, if that is what you are implying.

can make money from scratch but if they just let the presses run rampant we will have inflation.

...UMM.. which is exactly the problem we have now.


Granted, what I said might have been taken slightly out of context. It's not like they are just printing money for the sake of printing money, with no account of how much is already in circulation, etc.

However, no longer is gold the securer for the funds in ciruclation. We aren't on the gold standard any longer, and haven't been since the 70's.

For monies to have any type of REAL value, it has to be backed by something tangable. Gold, Silver, ETC.

Ours isn't. That's the problem. basically, anyone person is a couple of computer clicks away from being a millionare.

The FED is there to control the Money supply by several tools at its disposal (discount rate, variable reserve rate, and buying/selling government securities come to mind) in order to stabilize the economy and financial markets (it can only stabilize one or the other. impossible for both to be stable concurrently)
the interest rate is the effect of the money supply out there. More money in the system, lower rates, more spending and investment. Rates going up has a negative effect on investment and GDP decreases. THe Fed wanting a large national debt is laughable.

Is it?

Let's look at it this way.


The longer that the debt isnt' paid off, the more inflation takes ahold of the interest.

The more inflation, the more money they get for the inital loan.

They have made back what they gave times and times over. If you pay the debt off, they don't make any more money.

That's basic economics, just like it's in a banks BEST interest for you not to pay off the 30 year mortage for 30 years because of compounding interest.

Freemasons clandestinely rule the world...

I have to admit I have no idea what that is. The patriots are not what I called them, I am reffering to the video game for crist sakes. And I am not talking about the WORLD, I am talking about the unites states.

I will research that

good luck with that
funny

 

[Bible_Belt]

When someone enters a higher tax bracket, right at the bottom, they could be LOSING money!

Also, fwiw, the brackets don't work like that. When your income increases and your enter a new bracket, it is only your new raise that is taxed at the higher rate. The rest of your income is still taxed at the lower rate. You can't end up paying more taxes by getting a raise, that is a very common myth.

Here are the 2005 tax brackets:
http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=133517,00.html

 

[Shiftkey]

When someone enters a higher tax bracket, right at the bottom, they could be LOSING money!

Also, fwiw, the brackets don't work like that. When your income increases and your enter a new bracket, it is only your new raise that is taxed at the higher rate. The rest of your income is still taxed at the lower rate. You can't end up paying more taxes by getting a raise, that is a very common myth.

Here are the 2005 tax brackets:
http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=133517,00.html

Bible_Belt beat me to it. He is 100% correct.

 

[NYtomb]

Regardless of why they ran from the British Taxes, the fact is, they ran from them.

Take that into account with the fact that alot if not most americans didn't even have MONEY to pay taxes (alot of items were bartered) and you have issues for a country struggling to get on it's feet


You are making the assumption that everyone was 100% informed on what was going on, when in reality, there were alot more uneducated people then they are now.

you tell the average job 250 years ago that the problem is not taxation but taxation without representation, and he will tell you he doesn't care what the problem is, he still can't pay it.



sue me. I knew it was something around that, and I could have looked it up but given the fact that I gave an estimate in the first place, it should have been taken within the context of what was said.


incorrect. Our economy was booming during WWI. Before we committed troops we were manufacturing and selling goods to the allies while staying out. When the lusitania was sunk we sent troops and that was for a short period of time until the Versailles treaty ended the war. The fed reserve in 1913 was a watchdog agency with little if any power and no power to enforce. IT was also a lender of last resort. Basically it did absolutely nothing.

If that is true, and the FACTS you state are, you still can't dispute that Wodrow Wilson presidental campaign was backed heavily by the same banks that now make up the federal reserve.

Also, it would mean that Wildrow Wilson would have absolutly no reason to make make the Fed Reserve a private intity.
[/quote] The Fed is not a private entity at all, its our national central bank. Its not a private, profit-making institution, but is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects.
It is considered an independent central bank because its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms. However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by Congress, which periodically reviews its activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Also, the Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government."

WRONG!

It's a widly known fact that it's how they paid for the Civil war and the American Revolution. Now, it's the first time the FED RESERVE did that, if that is what you are implying.

I was implying that the first time the Fed bought and sold government securities to fund a war was WWII. We didnt have a central bank during the civil war. Andrew Jackson let the charter expire while he was president so there was no central bank/federal reserve from 1836 all the way until 1913 when the banking act of 1913 created the Fed to watch wallstreet.

...UMM.. which is exactly the problem we have now.

I disagree

Granted, what I said might have been taken slightly out of context. It's not like they are just printing money for the sake of printing money, with no account of how much is already in circulation, etc.

However, no longer is gold the securer for the funds in ciruclation. We aren't on the gold standard any longer, and haven't been since the 70's.

For monies to have any type of REAL value, it has to be backed by something tangable. Gold, Silver, ETC.

The gold standard is outdated and doesnt allow for the elastic money supply that we need to help control the economy and financial markets favorably.

Ours isn't. That's the problem. basically, anyone person is a couple of computer clicks away from being a millionare.

The FED is there to control the Money supply by several tools at its disposal (discount rate, variable reserve rate, and buying/selling government securities come to mind) in order to stabilize the economy and financial markets (it can only stabilize one or the other. impossible for both to be stable concurrently)
the interest rate is the effect of the money supply out there. More money in the system, lower rates, more spending and investment. Rates going up has a negative effect on investment and GDP decreases. THe Fed wanting a large national debt is laughable.



Is it?

Let's look at it this way.


The longer that the debt isnt' paid off, the more inflation takes ahold of the interest.

The more inflation, the more money they get for the inital loan.

They have made back what they gave times and times over. If you pay the debt off, they don't make any more money.

That's basic economics, just like it's in a banks BEST interest for you not to pay off the 30 year mortage for 30 years because of compounding interest.

The Freemason comment was a little joke. You have to know about all the mystery surrounding the organization to get it.

I have to admit I have no idea what that is. The patriots are not what I called them, I am reffering to the video game for crist sakes. And I am not talking about the WORLD, I am talking about the unites states.

I will research that

good luck with that
funny

 

[Nocturnal]

I personally find taxation to be unjust and immoral, but I doubt you will ever find a way to legally get around them. As has been suggested, there is not much point in getting into it aside from satisfying ones curiosity.

Does anyone else think tax brackets are really stupid? I had the thought that instead of using brackets, taxation according to income should be based on a smooth function curve, and not a stepped function. When someone enters a higher tax bracket, right at the bottom, they could be LOSING money! Think about it... They get a ten dollar a month raise, and then they qualify for the higher bracket. Now they are being TAXED HEAVIER but making little if any more. It's a stupid system to use brackets instead of just using a linear or logarithmic or exponential function (or whatever works).

Bible_Belt is correct, but I have heard of this happening in countries like Belgium where I think your entire income is taxed at the same rate.

 

[Create Reality]

Okay, I think you guys are talking about what I THINK you are, but to be sure for myself I used the info in the link Bible_Belt put up and did these two calculations...

For a single person and no dependents and no deductions (Schedule X) making 29,600

.15(29,600 - 7,300) + 730 = 4075 dollars taxed.

After they cross into the higher bracket, with a 10 dollar-a-month salary increase...

.25(29,720 - 29,700) + 4,090 = 4095 dollars taxed.

They pay 20 dollars more in taxes off a 120 dollars annual raise. I didn't even calculate the 10% but it didn't really matter for what I was thinking here.


So yes, my previous idea was a "myth". Thanks for teaching me something! And sorry for bringing this off-topic. Please, continue.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

I never said you shouldn't LEARN how to diminish them WHILE avoiding imprisonment (though I find that laughable, too) did I? In fact, I work in doing just that.

However, the problem we have here gentlemen is that people JUST GIVE UP, say what can I do?, or worse, believe the propaganda to be true, that in fact, THEY ARE legal. SURE the rich don't mind paying them, because most taxes aren't GEARED to impact them. I'm sure you understand that StraightUp.

But does that mean you turn a blind eye to those not as astute as you, like Social Darwinism?

Yes, Congress has the POWER to levy taxes, however, the construction between the IRS and the Congress and the Treasury department is unconstitutional and illegal. Accountants, i.e. those who STUDY this, confirmed it. As provided by previous posters, the information exists, but I don't see what good it does SUPPORTING this negative reality that taxes are GOOD, legal, or you're right?

There used to exist 14 tax brackets, and before that, just one, as taxes were only levied to pay for special projects and wars, and were not a constant burden on the citizens.

----------------------------

Are we aware the US dollar is not remaining as the world currency of choice?

Anyone with basic accounting knowledge can determine that the US fiscal policy status and financial statements are totally blown away. 8 Trillion in debt and mounting, with more to come.

Iran seeks to switch to the EURO, in order to trade oil, which is the REAL underlying value. Perhaps it's little known but, countries who buy Oil in the middle east are required to do so via the dollar, at least for now, giving it some BACKING, aside from gold. Controlling the supply of oil, props up the dollar. This was all consecrated years ago, when we made a pact to support the regimes of Saudi Arabia, and they required purchasers to buy oil in dollars. Were other countries a choice, they'd select the Euro, or a closer currency, as its much more fiscally sound. But as of right now, with the war and what not, it isn't a possibility. Moreover, the more we push Iran, the more we make it known we don't want a transition to the Euro, as it potentiates the problems of inflation and possibly hyperinflation.

The fact the country can BORROW money, then INFLATE the dollar during the payback period so as to diminish the debt in existence, is proof enough of the theivery going on right now. This is what nations who use dollars face. We borrow or transact goods now for some price, diminish the value of the dollar, pay it back, and walla, their dollar purchases less, while it appears we paid back less.

Again, this isn't taught in Economics, nor in History, so it's not mainstream, which is why it might appear "shocking", but then again, if the American public was fully educated, we wouldn't be the American Public.

------------------------------------

I won't counter Masons, Illuminati, or other secret organizations. We all have opinions on it, and they only cloud the truth of the matter behind the illegality of which I speak.

While I respect the fact some people DO work for the government, the purpose of the Constitution WAS to protect PEOPLE from government and getting too big and strong. Well, what do we have now?

You have to ask if the social services you pay via taxes are worth it, and then decide. But none of this negates the fact that the IRS cannot legally do what it does, and that constantly levied taxes ARE ILLEGAL.

But it's also the very lethargic attitude of people to investigate this. ALL Americans know FULL WELL about the IRS, Treasury, and a good deal about the Constitution/Amendments/RIGHTS, but does anyone apply this, or dig deeper?

No. As all too common, it's better to bolster your stance, rather than see the loopholes right in your face. If you call the FED/IRS, you'll get the answer here already.

http://http://www.rense.com/general29/ringring.htm

Try that place for starters, and we'll add others.

A-Unit

 

[ethnomethodologist]

A-Unit, if you are so firm in your belief, why not take it to the supreme court?

 

[STR8UP]

Social Darwinism?

I play the game of money, and I play to win. Many people THINK they are playing the game of money, but they are actually nothing more than a part in someone else's engine. The more you learn about it, the less dependent you are on keeping someone else's machine running. Anyone who fails to recognize the importance of being financially educated, well, too bad for them.

Unfortunately this group of financially uneducated includes most of my family and friends. I try to help them, but the fact is, most people don't want to hear it. If they make that choice, then so be it. Some people are simply better with money than others.

A doctor makes the choice to attend school for the better part of a decade, sacrificing a good portion of his/her life for a payoff in the future. Should the doctor make the same amount of money as the janitor? Wouldn't be a whole lot of people signing up for that kind of deal, would there?

You seem to be suggesting that I should feel some sort of responsibility to look out for my fellow American citizens in the form of a handout that relieves them from the burden of taxes. Maybe if I hadn't been laughed at, taken advantage of, and stolen from so much in the past by people who feel that they are "owed" something in life, I might have a bit more compassion. Life's tough....you can either sit around and wait for a handout or get out there and earn it for yourself, the choice is yours.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Man you Americans think you have it tough, just look at Australia or most of Europe - taxes are enormous, and tax brackets are very low (in some places, $50K is enough to get you in the highest tax bracket).