Substitute teacher accused of intimate relations with students

[Stagger Lee]

I'm not trying to defend her as she should face the same criminal legal hazard as if she were a male teacher, but there should be no criminal hazard. In a case like this there shouldn't even be an automatic termination. The boys involved were 18 years old.

http://www.examiner.com/article/tiffany-leiseth-substitute-teacher-accused-of-intimate-relations-with-students

Chief McCarthy says:


“"It’s known as institutional sexual assault. It’s a felony of the third degree. This crime came on the books around 2007. It’s designed to give people who are being supervised by others protection."”

So they just make up new bullsh!t sex offense laws year after year to charge people with.

Defense attorney Mike Deriso disagrees with that statement:


“"She was not their teacher at the time, and they were not her students. My client did not pursue those boys. They are adults. They make their own decisions."”

As Chief McCarthy goes on to say, a school teacher isn't allowed to have sex with a student. The sexual acts allegedly occurred after the last day of school, but it wasn't before the two men graduated. The superintendent told McCarthy that "'those kids are our students until they walk across that stage and get that diploma.’ Therefore, they were still students, so this law applies."

Investigators say, however, that Tiffany Leiseth cannot be charged with any crime by sending nude photos of herself to the 18-year-olds because at that age, they're considered adults. She's been fired by the school district and faces two felony charges

Well shucks, they can't get you for sending nude photos to an 18 year old, yet. The only way something like this should be considered a criminal sex offense is if the student is under the age of consent (which is so high to be BS to begin with and still considered criminal if under 18), not if they over the age of consent and just a minor and certainly not when they're over 18.

 

[speed dawg]

F*ck that, as long as women want to be 'equal', then h*ll yes she should face punishment. And guess who's not staying on the Titanic this time?

In a perfect world with common sense, no, she wouldn't face punishment. Men would also still be respected for masculinity, and homosexuality/perversion wouldn't be America's new 'thing'.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Of course she should face the same punishment as a man, which despite being charged she mostly likely won't get as harsh sentence or serve as much time as a man. But you can bet your azz, the real intent of this type of recent legislation was to punish male teachers (except they're too smart to take that risk), and to prevent male students from having sex with their teacher, and of course to feed the criminal justice/prison complex.

My point is that there shouldn't even be new ridiculous sexual offense laws like this. If a teacher who of either sex hooks ups with an adult student (or really one above the age of consent) at most this should be up to the school administration to decide whether to punish the teacher administratively.

That it's okay if the government keeps passing new legislation to criminalize mostly normal sexual behavior as long as they apply it to women too is a very pyrrhic victory.

 

[zekko]

I agree that it's a bullsh!t law. It doesn't matter that this is a woman they are prosecuting here, I'm sure the people who wrote the law were aiming it at men. If the people involved are above the age of consent, that's where it should end.

They came up with this "institutional sexual assault" BS because girls can't resist leaders/alphas - in such cases the teacher in the classroom. So they say the teacher has an unfair advantage over the student. Males don't give a damn if the woman a teacher/leader. They just see a woman with a hot mature body and they're ready to go.

Besides, where's the victim here? The guys involved are just going to be getting high fives from their buddies.

 

[user43770]

Besides, where's the victim here?

The husband is probably having a rough month.

 

[( . )( . )]

Besides, where's the victim here?

You and I the taxpayer. The parents.

Don't get me wrong I capitalized on Western woman's now unchained hypergamic impulses as much as the next azzhole. I just don't want to be paying for it.

The kid gets his d!ck sucked and the cathedral gets a freshly indoctrinated acolyte that cheers and applauds sh!t like this (or else !)sure, great. But then what?

The modern skool system. Where the fat dimbulb never loses, but you and I do.

 

[Stagger Lee]

The husband is probably having a rough month.

But that's just it, adultery itself isn't considered a criminal offense or at least it's not enforced anymore, or even any character issue. There's no morality in these new BS laws like "institutional sexual assault". If she would've hooked up with any other 18 year old (or any age male) who wasn't a student or even a fellow school faculty member, then magically nothing wrong happened especially not criminally.

The only real "crime" here she committed was adultery but that's not the issue here as far as the criminal code or the school administration is concerned. The teacher's age, marital status and sexual orientation are all irrelevant to the supposedly moral crusaders.

 

[zekko]

There's no morality in these new BS laws like "institutional sexual assault". If she would've hooked up with any other 18 year old (or any age male) who wasn't a student or even a fellow school faculty member, then magically nothing wrong happened especially not criminally.

Yeah, they say the teacher has "undue influence" over the student. But the kid is 18, he's an adult, for F's sake. I could see her losing her job or whatever, but a crime?

 

[ArcBound]

Yeah, they say the teacher has "undue influence" over the student. But the kid is 18, he's an adult, for F's sake. I could see her losing her job or whatever, but a crime?

Ideally the law prevents relationships between teachers and students not only because of the age difference, but also because of sex politics.

There is the stereotype of professors having sex with students to inflate the grade. I have never seen this with a professor, but I have seen it with the teaching assistants who basically control the grade. My roommate was a TA, basically got a girlfriend who was his student in one of his teaching sections. I've seen people flirt countless times with their TA. Magically they got A's last day of classes despite sub-par performance. This is also in a top 15 university, so it is not like elite universities don't play around with this either.

So of course the law did fail because it doesn't catch them all the time.

But imagine for a second it was legal. Can you think of why it might be bad?

Imagine male teachers giving great grades and advancing the consenting girls who sleep with him. Imagine female teachers doing the same. And we all know when sex is involved they WILL do this. Now imagine it happens on a societal scale.

Do you see the problem with passing those into elite universities, or better schools, or giving better grades, jobs to those who can seduce the teacher or the teacher seduces them? Your society goes to sh!t cause you funnel stupid people into all the wrong places. Our society already has a number of this and it is illegal. If it was legal it would be even more widespread.

I would argue it is not because the teacher has undue influence on the student, but because she has influence over the student's grade it should be a crime.
And imagine other situations What if the teacher took a fancy to you and she or he will not give you the grade you deserve until you fvck her/him? What if they were gay and you were not? What if you busted your butt studying and a hotter dude then you get the same grade or better because he fvcked your teacher and not through his work?
So many sexual politics and minefields to dodge if teacher and student relationships were allowed. Ultimately, while I might disagree with the exact punishment, I completely agree with it being a crime. There is just too much potential for politicking and power plays both as the student and the teacher who controls grades.

 

[user43770]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ArcBound again.

Very good argument, ArcBound.

But imagine for a second it was legal. Can you think of why it might be bad?

I think we all can. Is it any secret that some women use sexual favors as a means to advance their careers? They rise to positions of authority, not based on merit, but rather on who they made bust a nut. Many people (women and white knights) treat this idea as a misogynistic myth, but I've witnessed it first hand. These women do no good for anyone but themselves. They have no integrity and often belittle those beneath them. They seem to think they actually earned their place in the company. The mental acrobatics these women must go through is astounding.

In instances where a man would be ashamed and could acknowledge his wrongdoing, a woman seems to find a way to justify it. The exact same thing happens in relationships.

Integrity, loyalty and shame are traits that only men will have to truly endure.

 

[user43770]

But you can bet your azz, the real intent of this type of recent legislation was to punish male teachers (except they're too smart to take that risk)

This bit stood out to me. I don't remember the last time I read a story about a male teacher fvcking a student. All I see these days is the opposite.

 

[Jaylan]

Ideally the law prevents relationships between teachers and students not only because of the age difference, but also because of sex politics.

There is the stereotype of professors having sex with students to inflate the grade. I have never seen this with a professor, but I have seen it with the teaching assistants who basically control the grade. My roommate was a TA, basically got a girlfriend who was his student in one of his teaching sections. I've seen people flirt countless times with their TA. Magically they got A's last day of classes despite sub-par performance. This is also in a top 15 university, so it is not like elite universities don't play around with this either.

So of course the law did fail because it doesn't catch them all the time.

But imagine for a second it was legal. Can you think of why it might be bad?

Imagine male teachers giving great grades and advancing the consenting girls who sleep with him. Imagine female teachers doing the same. And we all know when sex is involved they WILL do this. Now imagine it happens on a societal scale.

Do you see the problem with passing those into elite universities, or better schools, or giving better grades, jobs to those who can seduce the teacher or the teacher seduces them? Your society goes to sh!t cause you funnel stupid people into all the wrong places. Our society already has a number of this and it is illegal. If it was legal it would be even more widespread.

I would argue it is not because the teacher has undue influence on the student, but because she has influence over the student's grade it should be a crime.
And imagine other situations What if the teacher took a fancy to you and she or he will not give you the grade you deserve until you fvck her/him? What if they were gay and you were not? What if you busted your butt studying and a hotter dude then you get the same grade or better because he fvcked your teacher and not through his work?
So many sexual politics and minefields to dodge if teacher and student relationships were allowed. Ultimately, while I might disagree with the exact punishment, I completely agree with it being a crime. There is just too much potential for politicking and power plays both as the student and the teacher who controls grades.

Quoted for truth.

Educators should not be romantically involved with students, period.

 

[zekko]

I'm a little surprised at all the posters applauding these laws, when in most other threads they would be wanting freedom from government. More laws = more control = bigger government.

I still think this should be addressed at the school level (a teacher acting inappropriately should lose his or her job or license to teach), not in the criminal courts.

I don't remember the last time I read a story about a male teacher fvcking a student. All I see these days is the opposite

Hmm, true enough. I'm guessing that it isn't considered newsworthy if it's a male, since it's so common. Or else the current feminist sexual harassment climate has men too afraid to do anything.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Ideally the law prevents relationships between teachers and students not only because of the age difference, but also because of sex politics.

There is the stereotype of professors having sex with students to inflate the grade. I have never seen this with a professor, but I have seen it with the teaching assistants who basically control the grade. My roommate was a TA, basically got a girlfriend who was his student in one of his teaching sections. I've seen people flirt countless times with their TA. Magically they got A's last day of classes despite sub-par performance. This is also in a top 15 university, so it is not like elite universities don't play around with this either.

So of course the law did fail because it doesn't catch them all the time.

But imagine for a second it was legal. Can you think of why it might be bad?

Imagine male teachers giving great grades and advancing the consenting girls who sleep with him. Imagine female teachers doing the same. And we all know when sex is involved they WILL do this. Now imagine it happens on a societal scale.

Do you see the problem with passing those into elite universities, or better schools, or giving better grades, jobs to those who can seduce the teacher or the teacher seduces them? Your society goes to sh!t cause you funnel stupid people into all the wrong places. Our society already has a number of this and it is illegal. If it was legal it would be even more widespread.

I would argue it is not because the teacher has undue influence on the student, but because she has influence over the student's grade it should be a crime.
And imagine other situations What if the teacher took a fancy to you and she or he will not give you the grade you deserve until you fvck her/him? What if they were gay and you were not? What if you busted your butt studying and a hotter dude then you get the same grade or better because he fvcked your teacher and not through his work?
So many sexual politics and minefields to dodge if teacher and student relationships were allowed. Ultimately, while I might disagree with the exact punishment, I completely agree with it being a crime. There is just too much potential for politicking and power plays both as the student and the teacher who controls grades.

I usually agree with you, and I have said myself that women get higher grades in college than they deserve but I have to disagree with you for several reasons.

I think the sexual quid pro quo, grades for sex, is an reality a non issue and a slippery slope, especially in college but in primary education too. Females are given better grades even without having sex with professors or instructors. They are given jobs, promotions etc without sexual activity being involved.

I know at my state university it was not against the policy to date instructors or professors. Besides that, you have 3-4 professors 3 times an academic year of various ages and genders. It would be very hard to impossible to make a difference in your GPA with quid pro quo.

I'm with zekko on this. At most this should be a school administration issue. And in a case like this it shouldn't even be a concern of the school. The real thing she did wrong was that she was married and commited adultery, but no one cares about that.

Make no mistake, all these new laws and rules about not being able to date students, not being able to date coworkers etc is all directed at males and especially males dating younger women.

 

[zekko]

I know at my state university it was not against the policy to date instructors or professors.

It's hard for me to get upset about such things since it was very common when I was growing up. Shoot, that's the plotline to The Nutty Professor, a professor dating his student.

Make no mistake, all these new laws and rules about not being able to date students, not being able to date coworkers etc is all directed at males and especially males dating younger women.

Agreed, especially males dating younger women. Feminists want to stand in the way of males dating younger in every place they can. They can't have the men enjoying themselves with younger girls at the expense of the older, less attractive women.

 

[ArcBound]

I usually agree with you, and I have said myself that women get higher grades in college than they deserve but I have to disagree with you for several reasons.

No worries I don't expect everyone to agree with me all the time. Rather I respect that.

I think the sexual quid pro quo, grades for sex, is an reality a non issue and a slippery slope, especially in college but in primary education too. Females are given better grades even without having sex with professors or instructors. They are given jobs, promotions etc without sexual activity being involved.

1. You might not see it publicly. Flirt in class, but usually the other stuff goes on elsewhere. 2. See below for my counter-argument about quid pro quo. 3. While it might happen without the sex right now, if legalized then it would be a lot more acceptable to do with or without sex, and happen a lot more which is my argument. You incentivize something and you get more of it.

I know at my state university it was not against the policy to date instructors or professors. Besides that, you have 3-4 professors 3 times an academic year of various ages and genders. It would be very hard to impossible to make a difference in your GPA with quid pro quo.

Most universities and colleges do the 2 semester system. Some do 3, some do 4, and the ones that do 4 usually have the same professor for at least 2 of the terms. Now take a semester in a two semester college. I am taking anywhere between 14 credits-24+ credits. Let's take the case of 14 credits first. Let's say I fvck my college professor or TA and get an A in a 4 credit or 4.5 credit class. That is an instant 4.0 on almost 33% of my total grade for that semester! Let's now take the extreme case of 24 credits in one semester. I fvck my college professor in my hardest 4 credit class. A get an A in that class. For 17% of my grade, a 4.0 is already guaranteed. But what else is guaranteed? I don't have to spend time studying for that class. For the really hard classes in college you need 3-4 hours a day to do the homework, study, review class notes, and get ready for bi monthly exams. Now take all that away. I have 21-28 extra hours for which to study for my other classes and get my GPA up in all of those classes too! Because of that action, it is not only my GPA in that class that increases (which already gives me a free 17%-33% on my semester's GPA) but also allows me to study for the other classes boosting my GPA even higher.

A woman doesn't need to suck/date every professor. Even just 1 will increase her GPA by a very significant amount. Especially if you try to go to a prestigious grad school or medical school, every point in GPA matters. And I have seen this several times despite being illegal in my school. If legalized, more would do it is all I am saying. And I think that is a bad thing for society, because you want to minimize this as much as possible.

I'm with zekko on this. At most this should be a school administration issue. And in a case like this it shouldn't even be a concern of the school. The real thing she did wrong was that she was married and commited adultery, but no one cares about that.

Make no mistake, all these new laws and rules about not being able to date students, not being able to date coworkers etc is all directed at males and especially males dating younger women.

I agree with you in that it is mostly men who are prosecuted in this. But in my opinion rather than abolish it for all, the same amount of women should be accountable as men.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

The superintendent told McCarthy that "'those kids are our students until they walk across that stage and get that diploma.’ Therefore, they were still students, so this law applies.

This^ is what gets me.

Yes, I believe she should be fired. But lets look at the FACTS of the "case".

Both parties were consenting adults. They had sex after classes were over, and I'm assuming grades were already determined, since they usually are by the last week. So, really, she didn't have a position of power over them anymore.

So....these guys having sex with her had nothing to do with them getting a better grade.

So, a law that is supposed to keep someone from abusing their position of power, is now being used to charge a woman with a felony, when there was (seemingly) no abuse intended.

Having these heavy handed laws leaves no room for a judge, police, or a jurry, to make a rational/logical decision.

"Well, they didn't walk yet, so technically they're still students." So, in that case, she committed a felony....Derp!

Not every situation is the same. Extreme laws like this, though they may be made under good intentions, can be too much of a catch all, and be abused themselves. And, in this case, possibly from some jealous, power hungry, superintendent.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Arcbound, you make some good arguments. I just think that students dating professors and getting higher grades is a symptom of a bigger problem. There's many problems with bogus grading that isn't involving dating that education institutions not only don't address they encourage.

I just don't like one-size fits all strict rules and laws. If a single TA or professor wants to date a student then he should be able to. If s/he's married, dating a lot of students, or his or her grading is suspect then it should be looked at on a case by case basis and punished appropriately.

It's kind of like when a society has no moral compass but they create all these laws to ostensibly be more moral, then the result isn't justice or morality but oppression.

 

[zekko]

Teachers giving out biased grades is a bad thing, but that's not what is being criminalized here, it's the sex act. Giving out grades that aren't deserved is still legal.

Besides which, in the case of a student exchanging sex for better grades, the student is not punished at all, only the teacher. I guess that's not a big deal, since the teacher is the one being paid, and thus should be more accountable. But I still don't think giving someone a B instead of a C should be a felony.

Aren't the prisons crowded enough? The United States is the biggest police state on the planet as it is. They incarcerate the largest percentage of thier population of any country. Yet people are calling for more people to go to jail? I don't understand this line of thinking. It should be addressed at the school level.

 

[goldengoose]

Besides, where's the victim here? The guys involved are just going to be getting high fives from their buddies.

And maybe one of her nude pics sent to their phones.


Does anybody know what this chick looks like? Is she a High Quality woman because she is a subsitute teacher? haha

You know the guys wanted to bang her because they are h0rny High Schoolers.

Since she is employed by the school district she should be held accountable for her actions. Serving beer to minors and sending nude pics to students should not be tolerated in grade school levels. If this was College, then there is no problem.

If you let this slide, then younger kids could be at risk. Teachers shouldn't be that desperate to bang students because their job is to be teaching not fvcking.

If this was a male teacher doing that, they would throw the book at him with no problem.

All she had to do was wait a few months until they graduated.

This chick is an idiot anyway, did she not think they wouldn't tell their buddies and show her pics to them?