Substitute teacher accused of intimate relations with students

[zekko]

Serving beer to minors and sending nude pics to students should not be tolerated in grade school levels.

The serving beer to minors part is a seperate issue because the boys are not yet drinking age. But if they are 18, they are consenting adults as far as the sex goes. And again, I agree the teacher should be punished, but it should be by the school system, not the legal system.

All she had to do was wait a few months until they graduated.

This came up awhile back in a case where a male teacher and student waited until she graduated and turned 18 to get together. The male teacher was then accused of "grooming" the girl while she was still underage, and they were trying to get him on that. I don't know how it turned out.

 

[goldengoose]

The serving beer to minors part is a seperate issue because the boys are not yet drinking age. But if they are 18, they are consenting adults as far as the sex goes. And again, I agree the teacher should be punished, but it should be by the school system, not the legal system.

Since the beer was involved the legal system took it over. What if she started sending pictures to younger students after this? You gotta draw the line somewhere. The school system will always view that as a crime so they turn it over to the legal system to handle.

This came up awhile back in a case where a male teacher and student waited until she graduated and turned 18 to get together. The male teacher was then accused of "grooming" the girl while she was still underage, and they were trying to get him on that. I don't know how it turned out.

male teacher

He's a guy that's why. Would be interesting to see. That is bvllsh1t on that one.

Out of all the people these teachers can bang they don't need to be going after the students. I had a couple of hot teachers in High School and one sub. Every guy wanted to bang them especially when they showed a lot of leg. H0rny teenagers are to be expected. Teachers should know better because they know the consequences of getting caught and know it ain't right. They should be above that stuff.

There was a popular teacher at my high school who was rumored to be banging students. Some said he did. He got busted for showing a girl a pic of his c0ck on his phone. He got 3 months for that, can't teach ever again and is a registered sex offender. All because he couldn't control himself. Teachers need to do that.

Fair enough, but all this is window dressing. The real question is: Should this be a crime (let alone a felony), considering that the "victim" is 18 years old?

Yes, large quotes around victim. Because they are 18 no. Because they were in hign school at the time there should be some punishment and for the beer. It's different when guys are banging female teachers but they gotta set a standard so it doesn't become a normal thing with today's society.

 

[zekko]

Teachers should know better because they know the consequences of getting caught and know it ain't right. They should be above that stuff.

Fair enough, but all this is window dressing. The real question is: Should this be a crime (let alone a felony), considering that the "victim" is 18 years old?

 

[Stagger Lee]

Fair enough, but all this is window dressing. The real question is: Should this be a crime (let alone a felony), considering that the "victim" is 18 years old?

Yep either the age of consent is 16 in a given state or it is not. All the excuses for new BS sex offense laws of well they're age of consent but but but still a minor, or they're of majority age but but but but still a student or not the teacher's student's but but but still haven't graduated but blah blah is just window dressing oppressive sexual offense law trends. You can apply an oppressive/PC view to everything sex, gun rights, free speech etc.

 

[ArcBound]

Arcbound, you make some good arguments. I just think that students dating professors and getting higher grades is a symptom of a bigger problem. There's many problems with bogus grading that isn't involving dating that education institutions not only don't address they encourage.

I just don't like one-size fits all strict rules and laws. If a single TA or professor wants to date a student then he should be able to. If s/he's married, dating a lot of students, or his or her grading is suspect then it should be looked at on a case by case basis and punished appropriately.

It's kind of like when a society has no moral compass but they create all these laws to ostensibly be more moral, then the result isn't justice or morality but oppression.

Yeah I can see that.
The problem is the law will always fail at one point, there will never be a perfect justice system, so keeping that imperfection in mind, what kind of laws do you want to make? You make a law too weak, people walk over it, you make a law too strong, as you said, some people get caught in the crosshairs when they didn't do anything too wrong.

The law through imperfections will always either let some guilty go free, or punish some innocents. I do agree that in this specific case, if the grades were already set in stone, the teacher should be cleared of things. But if grades weren't set in stone she should have a punishment in my opinion. As to the severity this woman received it was much higher than deserved.

Teachers giving out biased grades is a bad thing, but that's not what is being criminalized here, it's the sex act. Giving out grades that aren't deserved is still legal.

Besides which, in the case of a student exchanging sex for better grades, the student is not punished at all, only the teacher. I guess that's not a big deal, since the teacher is the one being paid, and thus should be more accountable. But I still don't think giving someone a B instead of a C should be a felony.

Drinking alcohol is legal, and driving is legal, but when you put them two together, we deem it illegal because of the damage it does to society. Yes for sure having favoritism and giving higher grades than deserved is "legal" and sex with consenting adults is legal, but when we put them together in act exchanging sex/dating for grades higher than deserved, is illegal and imo should be illegal. Maybe the punishment is wrong and jail time shouldn't be deserved, but imo there has to be a strong disincentive to prevent many teacher student relationships.

 

[Jaylan]

ArcBound is spot on in all this.

For all the guys on this forum who were making complaints in that "Women graduating from college more than men" thread...why would you want any less than severe punishment for engaging in sexual contact with students?

Do any of you want to make a further mockery of the education system and allow the wrong women to displace the right men and women who actually deserve to be at the top of their class or profession? Do you want even more women sleeping their way to the top and controlling different industries because they were able to affect their transcript and thus their recruitment opportunities, and all created from a little sexy time with the professor?

Im all behind there being swift and harsh punishment for educators who abuse their position. Even if in the OP's story sex supposedly only happened after those teens turned 18 and were about to graduate, it doesnt make it less worse. Are we gonna stupidly assume their wasnt shenanigans being at least planned before hand? There shouldnt be educators in our school who realistically consider doing such a thing. It creates a bad teaching environment for all the reasons ArcBound pointed out.

For dudes having an issue with what happens to the teacher in the OP or teachers like this person...sit and really think about this. Being ok with such behavior will only lead to further the downfall of men that many of you are so concerned with. Why be in support of any situation that would give women's bodies even more power? This would be less of a problem if men had more sexual self control...but we all know most dudes jump at any decent chance to get laid.

 

[asa_don]

arcbound is missing the point here, this teacher wasn't giving out any grades, she was only a sub teacher, not saying it is right but your argument on that is false.

"teachers pets" always got better grades for whatever they did

the guys aren't fvcking the female teacher for grades, they want her pvssy

the girls are fvcking the male teacher for grades, they want to graduate

2 totally different things.

 

[Jaylan]

arcbound is missing the point here, this teacher wasn't giving out any grades, she was only a sub teacher, not saying it is right but your argument on that is false.

"teachers pets" always got better grades for whatever they did

the guys aren't fvcking the female teacher for grades, they want her pvssy

the girls are fvcking the male teacher for grades, they want to graduate

2 totally different things.

Youre missing his point.

No educators should be romantically involved with students, period.

You cannot have seperate rules for subs, and seperate rules for professors not seeing one of students from a class they dont currently teach. It shouldnt happen at all. You make it ok for some educators to do it, and you open up a whole sh!t show of teacher/student relations occurring on a MUCH greater scale.

And yes, being soft on a substitute would certainly lead to students or teachers using sex as a means to influence a grade. Education is an area where there should be one set of rules for all teachers, and no leniency for unprofessional educators who think fcking students is ok.

Its idiotic to be in support of something that would simply give sex more power in our society. And youre daffy if you dont think young men will screw an educator if it meant better grades on the way to that nice degree that gets them paid. Youre also ignorant if you dont believe women screw teachers because they think they are attractive. Each individual has their own reasons for it, and generalizations aren't helpful here.

And seriously, think about all this. If we created an atmosphere where teacher/student relationships were legal and also considered ok by educational institutions...you dont think male and female students wont use that to their advantage? There are certain jobs that require a higher GPA inside your major, while allowing your overall GPA to be lower. A male student would just as easily bang his professor as a female student, if it meant him raising a couple classes up to an A from a B or C. And then just like that, your transcript looks better for that first job out of college in a competitive job market. Nevermind the added bonus of letter's of recommendation that such a student may not have really deserved.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Yeah we don't need a law that criminalize teacher/student sexual relations because of the potential of unfair grading. Unfair grading for females is the defacto standard already. If you are a teacher who is trading grades for sex or any other reason besides the student's academic work then you shouldn't be teaching because of character issues and integrity or a sexist/feminist agenda that goes beyond dating students.

These new- fangled sex offense laws' logic is like passing a law that you can't drink or buy alcohol if you are a registered owner of a vehicle because there's a higher potential you'll drink and drive. Just because you own a car and buy alcohol doesn't mean you automatically will drink and drive. Just as, because you're a teacher and you are dating a student doesn't mean you are necessarily padding their grade. Although a teacher who is dating a student should be scrutinized for grade padding and held accountable by his supervisors at the school. That's not or shouldn't be a sex offense criminal law matter though.

 

[Stagger Lee]

No educators should be romantically involved with students, period.

No employees should be romantically involved with coworkers, period.

See, you can put any group in there you want. It's not the place of the criminal code to say who can or can't be romantically involved with who if the individuals are over the age of consent (which is pretty high and is essentially 18 with minor sex offense laws). It's not really the place of the institution or employer to say either, especially if it is happening away from the campus or firm.

 

[Jaylan]

^Poor comparison.

Employees dating CO-workers, is like students dating other students. Teachers dating students, is like superiors dating subordinates within a work environment. And that is something many companies either frown upon, transfer, demote or fire people for if the relationship is found out.

And its for the same reasons the teacher/students pairings arent allowed. Sex should not lead to favoritism or performance evaluations. And we all know damn well sex and money are the easiest ways to gain someones favor in our world. Money bribery is illegal right? So why should it be ok to garner favoritism through the use of sex? Politicians lose their jobs for less. So no Stagger, you can not just input any group into what I said. Try again.

And if you really believe this sort of behavior is OK, and that educational institutions and professional companies should have no say in these issues...I dont want to ever see you b!tching and whining on this forum about women using sex to get ahead. Nor do I wanna see you complaining if a woman gets a position over a man because she fvked the boss...or if she banged the teacher to get better grades to pad her transcript and resume before graduation. And if you do complain, Ill gladly reference this thread as a reminder of your previous statements.

Because if youre defending unprofessional relationships where its fine and dandy for students and subordinates to bang teachers and bosses, then youre ok with sex (and thereby women) having even more power and control over men. Good luck ever seeing male graduation numbers become equal to women with the rules youre pushing. Watch men's earning potential and wealth drop with the rules youre pushing.

 

[zekko]

^Poor comparison.

Employees dating CO-workers, is like students dating other students. Teachers dating students, is like superiors dating subordinates within a work environment. And that is something many companies either frown upon, transfer, demote or fire people for if the relationship is found out.
.

Yes, they are FIRED, they are not thrown in prison. It's handled at the administrative level, not the courts.

And if you really believe this sort of behavior is OK, and that educational institutions and professional companies should have no say in these issues..

As far as I can see, no one has said it was okay (did you read the thread?). Stagger and I just don't think people should be imprisoned over it, it should be handled by the school (the teacher should be dismissed, or lose her license to teach). Apparently the mindset in the US is to throw everybody in jail for everything. No surprise to me. Let's all think up more stuff we can throw people in jail for.

 

[asa_don]

And youre daffy

i love daffy duck.

Youre missing his point.

No educators should be romantically involved with students, period.

his point was off, you're both missing the entire point of everything

you guys act all shocked and outraged that this stuff is going on, you guys are so naive, this sh!t has been going on for decades, nothing was being done about it, the only reason that it's coming to light today is because of cell phones, teachers are corresponding with their students over the phone, that's why they get in trouble, back in the day it was a he said/she said thing and nothing happened, now with texts or naked pictures being sent they have the proof.

You cannot have seperate rules for subs, and seperate rules for professors not seeing one of students from a class they dont currently teach. It shouldnt happen at all. You make it ok for some educators to do it, and you open up a whole sh!t show of teacher/student relations occurring on a MUCH greater scale.

subs are different than regular staff members, they have no influence over your grade or graduation, subs can sub for an entire district, they aren't bound to just one class or school, they are paid less and are not the same as a full time staffer, those guys fvcked her because they wanted to, they weren't no victim, fvcking her didn't give them an a in the class either, she was just a sub.

And yes, being soft on a substitute would certainly lead to students or teachers using sex as a means to influence a grade. Education is an area where there should be one set of rules for all teachers, and no leniency for unprofessional educators who think fcking students is ok.

this has been happening for years, it isnt something new, girls have given blow jobs to teachers or fvcked them for good grades, a sub isnt a real teacher of influence

Its idiotic to be in support of something that would simply give sex more power in our society. And youre daffy if you dont think young men will screw an educator if it meant better grades on the way to that nice degree that gets them paid. Youre also ignorant if you dont believe women screw teachers because they think they are attractive. Each individual has their own reasons for it, and generalizations aren't helpful here.

i never said i'm in support of it, men and women are different, young men aren't going to fvck their 75 year old english teacher on her way to retirement for an a, they are going to fvck the young history teacher because she is hot, the men aren't expecting to get an a out of it, they want some hot pvssy and status, you dont know that?

would you fvck an old lady for an a?

girls will fvck the teacher for the grade because they want it, they expect it, even if the teacher was good looking they expect the grade.

we're talking high school here, no big degrees that is going to get you paid with a high school diploma, you might get into a university for that but that's it.

And seriously, think about all this. If we created an atmosphere where teacher/student relationships were legal and also considered ok by educational institutions...you dont think male and female students wont use that to their advantage? There are certain jobs that require a higher GPA inside your major, while allowing your overall GPA to be lower. A male student would just as easily bang his professor as a female student, if it meant him raising a couple classes up to an A from a B or C. And then just like that, your transcript looks better for that first job out of college in a competitive job market. Nevermind the added bonus of letter's of recommendation that such a student may not have really deserved.

you dont seem to understand that this has already been going on for decades, its nothing new, guys want to fvck teachers for sex and the status, girls want the grade from the teacher.

 

[Jaylan]

^Youre actually the naive one if you think females dont screw teachers because they find them sexy and attractive. Hell, you could do a quick internet search and see that both male and female students will bang a teacher because they find the teacher attractive or because they want to get ahead in the class. Much more often, from anything Ive seen, the male and female student simply find their instructor attractive.

Anyways, this isnt just about high school. This is about preventing an environment where such unprofessional behavior is outright accepted and encouraged. No one is saying these things dont happen already...but what I am saying is that its right that these relationships are frowned upon and in some cases are illegal. It does not need to become a widespread accepted practice that teachers can bang students so long as they wait from them to become 18 and not directly affecting their grade.

Being OK with such a situation has vast consequences and sets up a larger environment of banging teacher for a good grade, and this certainly would leak into colleges on a grander scale. And with regard to the high school teachers, I dont care if the students are 18 now...and not having their grades directly affected. There shouldnt be tolerance for any such behavior...because it sets a stage for students and teachers thinking it is OK to date one another even if they share a class.

In which case Im all for zero tolerance. Is prosecution a bit much? Possibly. But honestly, I wouldnt want my kid's teachers sitting around dreaming about when they can screw my children once theyre old enough. Nor do I want educators in my local school system trying to flirt with teens in an effort to prime them for dating at an older age. We already saw a creepy story like that a couple years ago (teacher flirting with student for years while she was a minor, and then claiming to only starting sleeping with her when she was legal...yeah right)

The school system doesnt need all of this bullsh!t going on anymore than it already does. Showing any kind of leniency or softness in these areas just opens the gates up. And trust me, men would be harshly affected by it.

Yes, they are FIRED, they are not thrown in prison. It's handled at the administrative level, not the courts.


As far as I can see, no one has said it was okay (did you read the thread?). Stagger and I just don't think people should be imprisoned over it, it should be handled by the school (the teacher should be dismissed, or lose her license to teach). Apparently the mindset in the US is to throw everybody in jail for everything. No surprise to me. Let's all think up more stuff we can throw people in jail for.

Stagger just said that companies and institutions shouldnt have a say regarding subordinate-superior relationships. Read his last couple of posts carefully, and then youll see why I responded the way I did;

See, you can put any group in there you want. It's not the place of the criminal code to say who can or can't be romantically involved with who if the individuals are over the age of consent (which is pretty high and is essentially 18 with minor sex offense laws). It's not really the place of the institution or employer to say either, especially if it is happening away from the campus or firm.

The underlined is what I was directly referring to with much of my prior post.

 

[asa_don]

^Youre actually the naive one if you think females dont screw teachers because they find them sexy and attractive. Hell, you could do a quick internet search and see that both male and female students will bang a teacher because they find the teacher attractive or because they want to get ahead in the class. Much more often, from anything Ive seen, the male and female student simply find their instructor attractive.

i'm not naive at all, you can't comprehend what you read, you make up stuff

let me repeat myself again, i said that male students fvck their female teachers because they think they are hot, it isnt about the grade, its about the status and the pvssy, these guys arent fvcking a 75 year ol teacher for an a.

female students will fvck a teacher for the grade, they will also do it because he might be attractive but they expect the grade for the sex.

Anyways, this isnt just about high school.

it is about high school, this is what the incident is about.

This is about preventing an environment where such unprofessional behavior is outright accepted and encouraged. No one is saying these things dont happen already...but what I am saying is that its right that these relationships are frowned upon and in some cases are illegal. It does not need to become a widespread accepted practice that teachers can bang students so long as they wait from them to become 18 and not directly affecting their grade.

sub teachers dont influence grades, grades are influenced in school anyway
even without sex, popular students, jocks, kids in the cliques are all passed along even when they dont desrve good grades. i got an a in science because i had a coach as the teacher, its happening all over the country, it has been for decades, its nothing new.

Being OK with such a situation has vast consequences and sets up a larger environment of banging teacher for a good grade, and this certainly would leak into colleges on a grander scale. And with regard to the high school teachers, I dont care if the students are 18 now...and not having their grades directly affected. There shouldnt be tolerance for any such behavior...because it sets a stage for students and teachers thinking it is OK to date one another even if they share a class.

In which case Im all for zero tolerance. Is prosecution a bit much? Possibly. But honestly, I wouldnt want my kid's teachers sitting around dreaming about when they can screw my children once theyre old enough. Nor do I want educators in my local school system trying to flirt with teens in an effort to prime them for dating at an older age. We already saw a creepy story like that a couple years ago (teacher flirting with student for years while she was a minor, and then claiming to only starting sleeping with her when she was legal...yeah right)

The school system doesnt need all of this bullsh!t going on anymore than it already does. Showing any kind of leniency or softness in these areas just opens the gates up. And trust me, men would be harshly affected by it.

you just dont get it, its already been happening for decades, its nothing new

 

[Jaylan]

:yawn:

This conversation is going nowhere. Agree to disagree mate.