Stop intellectualizing and obsessing - your ONLY chance of success

[Jariel]

Ever since meeting my girlfriend I have never analysed anything she did or said, never performed any routines or had any strategies and have not tried to impress her.

Unlike many girls I've dated and tried to win over, my attitude in meeting her was "I'm just gonna be myself and she either likes me or she doesn't". Well it turns out she was (and still is) crazy about me, thinks about me all the time and has never met a guy like me before - in her words.

She's used to AFCs hitting on her with their own method of supplication. Some are sickly sweet and put her on a pedestal, others are sexually suggestive and creepy, and some are brash and arrogant self-promoters. These are all guys she lumps into categories and brushes off without a second thought. The thing they have in common is that they try way too hard to impress her and just end up looking desperate.

Seriously, stop trying to control attraction. If it's there, make your move and if it's not, move on and don't worry about it.

 

[Fitch]

My theory

Since reaching a level of great success with women and now a girlfriend who seems to worship me, I've started to realise that a large percentage of the seduction material guys are reading is the very thing that is keeping them from having any success.

Attraction is not a science and all this intellectualizing and strategizing in the seduction community is turning guys into obsessive control freaks.

Attraction is natural. You might see hot women with ugly guys and wonder what they said/did to win her over. Well, the chances are those guys never did anything except be themselves and the women just happened to find something attractive about them. Either that, or the woman has some ulterior motives (money, fame, social power etc).

I have a friend who is qualified in psychology and obviously has a lot of textbook knowledge. However, this has turned him into a control freak. Just like me a year ago, he starts out quite well with women, gets a good rapport going and there's a spark, yet he analyses way too deeply, strategises over his next move, and if there's a drop in interest (real or imagined) he'll spend hours, even days plotting what he should say and how he should say it. When it fails, he tries a new strategy or a new personality and just ends up digging himself into a deep hole. Women that used to like and respect him get frightened and want to get as far away as they can. Then he gets frustrated because he's lost control the situation; he gets angry at them and bitter towards women, because he doesn't see that HE was the one who causes all his problems. This was my problem until only months ago, and the main reason I couldn't sustain a relationship.

Sadly, this is something guys studying seduction are doing regularly and don't even know it. Worse still, they're basing a whole community around this obsessive intellectualizing. It's a case of the blind leading the blind, sharing strategies and analyses, thinking too much, trying too hard, and convincing each other they can control women. However, this is the very thing that causes most of their problems and the very thing they need to let go of.

You cannot convince a woman to find you attractive! Even the greatest hypnotists of the world do not have any long term control over their subjects, and even the short term control is limited. Even then, they have special conditions to work under and their subject must be willing and compliant to begin with. Needless to say, if you find a willing and compliant woman, you will not need this seduction stuff in the first place.

You all need to drop this control freak mentality, stop strategising, stop analysing, stop worrying and remember that women have a free will. You can practice being a more charismatic, sociable and better person to improve your chances. You can even give and withdraw attention, but ultimately, a woman is going to draw her own conclusion about you and make her decision based on what she wants for herself.

Successfully picking up women is simply a matter of finding one with who you share mutual chemistry and attraction. If it's not there, keep searching.

See for yourself...of all the problems guys have with women, most are caused by this control freak mentality. This is the problem of the AFC and "nice guy" who try to control women with niceness, and unless you get out of this loop and stop trying to control everything, these problems will persist, regardless of how you look or act.

This is why, generally, the "dumb" jerks (i.e. the stereotypical jock) get the girls. Note: I stress, generally.

You really have to dumb down when trying to get with a girl; however, with the smart girls (you know who I'm talking about; and some are really hot--i mean, really, really hot) it usually doesn't work out--in the long run. However, it will work--you will get ass; maybe not a LTR, but you'll get some ass.

The key to first approaches, in general, is to dumb down. Ignore their signs; the ****-blocks; etc. You'll look unfazed, and nonchalant. Take it easy, and just speak for the moment. Intelligence is not applicable; though, some girls (i.e. the smart girls) may be turned on by a display of some intelligence--you need a balance.

 

[LIME!]

That's why being drunk helps

Anyway, I'm to the point where I can analyze an interaction and predict with some fidelity whether it's going to work. I can pinpoint problems in relationships. Yeah, time for me to move on, but right now I lack the confidence to implement my learning. I just don't feel "****y & funny", alpha, etc, y'know? I'm working on it, but it's hard.

Some people really need this information. Trial and error will not help if you are working from an incorrect paradigm. You'll just become more and more supplicating while thinking you are not being nice enough yet! However, once you have a good idea what's going on, you should work on going out and implementing your learning.

Thanks for reminding me!

 

[organizedconfusion]

to get to a higher level of inner game and mastery , there must be a brief period of time where one masters this area of life.this is obviously past the holding hands and the honeymoon stages of a relationship,there MUST be a continuation of the growing process imo or growth will start to stagnate of regress.I been there done that, can get girls and get laid quickly..but then what? the initial attraction process is easy,but the things like overcoming BS tests during relationships, power struggles, how to handle a girl when she becomes emotional..these are alot of things i bet alot of guys deal with and not all of them know what to do or handle these situations.I think that the DYD,seduction materials and DJ stuff are really handy when helping guys deal with these issues that come up.handle it now and understand now , then later i say. It's there for a reason and it's to help out and be supplemented to your experiances, NOT complete replacement for it or to make someone into a control freak because of it. This stuff is golden IF applied correctly...the thing is , you learn how to feel out the situations and know instinctivly whats wrong or right and see things at a deeper level and act accoridngly,NOT just trying to figure things out logicaly or scientificly with facts and charts, no-it dosen't work that way.

 

[Skydiver43127]

I know this will gonna sound way out there, but heck... at least it's not another psychological breakdown of the obvious.

Recently, I like to think of people as either fishes, sharks, and whales.

Fishes swim around, fearing the sharks, and seek protection near the whales. Nevertheless, they usually end up "eaten" by the sharks.

Sharks lok for fishes to feed upon. They are always hungry for more, however and are never satisfied. Occasionally, when they stumble on a whale, they either run away, or decide that this is what they need and try to eat it. (and break their teeth)

Whales just swim around. Fishes like to stay near them for protection and comfort, but whales don't really notice. Sharks are bigger and more interesting, especially when, for some reason, they start continuously bumping their heads on the whale (they sharks are actually trying to eat the whale, but the whale doesn't know or doesn't care)

Tu sum up: sharks like fishes, fishes like whales, whales like sharks.

The sharks are the control freaks - PUA, most chicks, ect. The fishes are AFC and nice guys. Whales are people following the phylosophy described by Jariel here. But I do not believe everyone is born to be a whale, or that this is what attracts ALL women. As I said, I am actually more attracted to shark-type women. Not for long-term, of cource, but they make things more exciting. I suppose this goes both ways.

 

[Jariel]

bump - just for the new users

 

[Sekond]

I will admit I like to watch interaction with other people, but when it comes to actual action, it is all based on doing things that are natural, with less thinking. When your going out, you just have to have fun, when you have fun, it makes things more natural, but when you do things that are unnatural, it causes stress and f-ups

Many of us learn new things through individual experiences or reading on this board. The thing is that anything you learn, has to become natural, if not, then it has to become just a game, have fun, so there is no stress involved...

Honeslty... It is all a game anyway, practice makes perfect, and no one is pro when they first get the ball, just have fun and do things that are natural, and things will work out

thats my take on it...

 

[Jariel]

bumping again for the likes of LukeSkywalker and new users who are taking an analytical approach.

 

[Zero Hero]

Someone PM Jayer about this thread...its all he needs.

 

[insidious]

This a right-on thread for the mature folks around here.

Ties in to this classic but under-read wisdom from Joekerr31 a few months ago:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=109815&highlight=circle

 

[Holland]

I only have to read the title of the topic to know: I agree

95 % of the stuff that I 'use' now just flows from within myself, I don't even think about it anymore. I don't DO anything anymore, I'm just BEING. And the the fact is: it works 10 times more effective than the other 5% of canned/sure-fire material.
If you get the right inner game, it doesn't really matter anymore.

Like Pook said:
-Let your eccentricity's rise, your woman will come to love them. Perfect is Boring.
-Don't be contained by formula
-Be like a child

And remember. If you do 99% 'right' and only 1 % 'wrong'. If you just accept that you're still doing great.
But if you start obsessing, focussing and intellectualizing on the 1% (like the friend of Jariel did) than you're going to CRASH. And end up frustrated, all because you wanted everything to go perfect.

For all you guys who are starting to 'get' it, say: "F*ck the rules and techniques and let us soar on our own!"

 

[stuartSan]

That's exactly what I needed.

With a mind that runs non-stop, I find it a double edged sword. I could storm up a bunch of creative ideas, or end up using it to think negative stuff.

Sometimes I think too much for my own good, and this thread made me realize that you just have to do it sometimes.

 

[diogenes84]

Im not reading the post as its long, but the topic says everything. You wont understand girls so dont try to. They say one, they think different and they do different. Dont intellectualize and loose time on thibking. Just do what You have to.

thank you...but so hard to do. especially with instant messaging I find myself regularly obsessing about wether/why she is not answering or waiting for a contact approach (which usually comes when I can restrain myself and be patient)..UUgh tough learning.