Stop intellectualizing and obsessing - your ONLY chance of success

Jariel

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Since reaching a level of great success with women and now a girlfriend who seems to worship me, I've started to realise that a large percentage of the seduction material guys are reading is the very thing that is keeping them from having any success.

Attraction is not a science and all this intellectualizing and strategizing in the seduction community is turning guys into obsessive control freaks.

Attraction is natural. You might see hot women with ugly guys and wonder what they said/did to win her over. Well, the chances are those guys never did anything except be themselves and the women just happened to find something attractive about them. Either that, or the woman has some ulterior motives (money, fame, social power etc).

I have a friend who is qualified in psychology and obviously has a lot of textbook knowledge. However, this has turned him into a control freak. Just like me a year ago, he starts out quite well with women, gets a good rapport going and there's a spark, yet he analyses way too deeply, strategises over his next move, and if there's a drop in interest (real or imagined) he'll spend hours, even days plotting what he should say and how he should say it. When it fails, he tries a new strategy or a new personality and just ends up digging himself into a deep hole. Women that used to like and respect him get frightened and want to get as far away as they can. Then he gets frustrated because he's lost control the situation; he gets angry at them and bitter towards women, because he doesn't see that HE was the one who causes all his problems. This was my problem until only months ago, and the main reason I couldn't sustain a relationship.

Sadly, this is something guys studying seduction are doing regularly and don't even know it. Worse still, they're basing a whole community around this obsessive intellectualizing. It's a case of the blind leading the blind, sharing strategies and analyses, thinking too much, trying too hard, and convincing each other they can control women. However, this is the very thing that causes most of their problems and the very thing they need to let go of.

You cannot convince a woman to find you attractive! Even the greatest hypnotists of the world do not have any long term control over their subjects, and even the short term control is limited. Even then, they have special conditions to work under and their subject must be willing and compliant to begin with. Needless to say, if you find a willing and compliant woman, you will not need this seduction stuff in the first place.

You all need to drop this control freak mentality, stop strategising, stop analysing, stop worrying and remember that women have a free will. You can practice being a more charismatic, sociable and better person to improve your chances. You can even give and withdraw attention, but ultimately, a woman is going to draw her own conclusion about you and make her decision based on what she wants for herself.

Successfully picking up women is simply a matter of finding one with who you share mutual chemistry and attraction. If it's not there, keep searching.

See for yourself...of all the problems guys have with women, most are caused by this control freak mentality. This is the problem of the AFC and "nice guy" who try to control women with niceness, and unless you get out of this loop and stop trying to control everything, these problems will persist, regardless of how you look or act.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Also, build your own internal self esteem and control. It'll lessen your need to control things external to yourself.
 

tmpgstx

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Good post. I think for alot of analytical thinkers it is about needing feedback before doing something.

Problem solving requires analysis, application, and feedback. The cycle repeats itself until a solution is found to fix something in making it behave logically. Logically means that it will behave that way every time when a certain event is triggered.

People and their bahaviors are not logical! Trying to get an outcome from a predicted pattern of behavior most of time leads to false conclusions.

I do think by focusing on yourself, your image and body language to the message you want to send that attractive lady is what you can do analytically to your advantage. Anything regarding her behavior is a waste of your time.
 

Jariel

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Francisco: I completely agree, and that's the same conclusion I reached (eventually).

Tmpgstx: Very well explained and all great points!
 

MightyMate

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Im not reading the post as its long, but the topic says everything. You wont understand girls so dont try to. They say one, they think different and they do different. Dont intellectualize and loose time on thibking. Just do what You have to.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Originally posted by Jariel
Francisco: I completely agree, and that's the same conclusion I reached (eventually).
Self esteem is a powerful thing and is premium part of a DJ's character. :up:
 

ethnomethodologist

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I'll be the first to ask a question...

Jariel, Francisco, tmpgstx, and surprisingly yout too MightyMate

I want your take on planning for the best, and fearing failure.

Do you simply follow the three second rule and do what you THINK is best from what you know?
 

reyalp

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Right on, Jariel.

A woman asked me recently what I am looking for, in dating & relationships.
I responded
"I don't look for anything. Whatever it is, it is."

I then went on to tell her I don't need to date, or have relationships. I choose to date because I enjoy it (most of the time, anyway.)


For instance, Friday night, I went to the bar and I was enjoying myself quite thoroughly. I ended up kiss/# closing two women. I only went to the bar because I wanted to have fun, drink a few beers, and sing some karaoke.
I would have not been even the slightest bit let down if I hadn't gotten anywhere with those girls. I would have gone back to having fun by myself.

I don't need girls in order for me happy.

I don't have to get the girl, I don't have to say everything right, and I don't have to control everything in order for me to have a good time.
 

tmpgstx

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Do you simply follow the three second rule and do what you THINK is best from what you know?
I'm one of those guys that don't go around hitting on random girls. I want a better reputation than that. I don't live in a huge city so keeping a reputation is a good thing.

I also wait for a non-verbal indicator such as prolonged eye contact and/or smile. It has to happen more than once from the same girl. I'll watch her out of the corner of my eye a bit and make sure she's not a complete AW.

This reduces rejection in two ways:

First, you know she's physically attracted through her non-verbal indicators.

Second, she's not a flake just using you to buy her drinks or attention

Later, i'll approach and make some small talk and get her number and set up the date a bit later.

This may be kind of selfish and shallow, but i don't go for anyone that isn't a 'ten' in looks (at least to me anyway). It's because i'm very picky.

I had sex with a really athletic gal awhile back and i won't go back to someone who doesn't exercise. They can look in shape and be skinny and stuff but not have any *grip* down there if you get my drift. Athletic girls have that strong *grip* and there isn't any better sex than that.
 

ScrewIt

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I couldnt agree more. I've come to a similar conclusion a few days ago, and cant help but acknowledge the problems we create for ourselves.

Human behavior/psych cannot be rationalized and controlled and never will, because as you stated, we all have free will. When you try to put into effect a state of mind of doing a certain action to receive a reaction from another person. its possible to get the desired effect.

However the human brain is too complicated to understand, and many factors (confidence, BL, speech, self-esteem, looks, posture...etc.) play into the effect of perceived value. No one is perfect and everyone has flaws.

David D, Neil Strauss, Mystery...etc. they try to rationalize every behavior/thought process of women, (and a great job at it!). They're marketing this material towards the weakness of men(who cant seem to get a date). And ironically they succuumb to their own hopes and become slaves of these books (and perhaps sosuave) that they dont realize that the very knowledge they seek has conditioned them in negative way, however on the positive side it has taught them a thing or two about women.

I realize that once you have your life together, self-esteem, self-worth, confidence. Everything in your life will begin to fall in place and flow naturally. You wont even have to lift a finger to try hard at picking up women, because it's a natural process. Once you build upon self improvement and 'turn towards the norms of society' (how a man is expected to be), will you rarely ever have trouble wth women.

The way i see, the guys hwo have trouble with women should get pass their insecurities, go out there and do it.
practice makes perfect...almost!

There are no secret techniques or rules to go by. you sniff out the flakes and next them. and go after the ones who present true IL. once you realize that you DONT need women in your life or her being busy, or rejecting your date and still remain cool/confident....then you know you're good.
 

ethnomethodologist

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Originally posted by ScrewIt
Once you build upon self improvement and 'turn towards the norms of society' (how a man is expected to be), will you rarely ever have trouble wth women.
Maybe you can help me ScrewIt!!!

Here's the basic of my take on Sosuave since January 1st 2006. It has evolved since than, but I want a little background critique...

Etymology is the study of homosapianus(modern human)
Ethnomethodology is the study of human behavior.

I elected to conduct a selfresearch experiment. I know it is wrong to even think of doing so, it is counterproductive, ergo evil.

I found the notion of breaching experiments. Breaching social Normals, I turned it upon myself and began to breach my own social norms. That is what I felt the essence of Sosuave was.

To break out of your comfort zone and experience the world as efficiently as possible.
 

MightyMate

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Originally posted by ethnomethodologist


Do you simply follow the three second rule and do what you THINK is best from what you know?
Nope. I dont care if girl notices me or not. If i find her attractive i watch closely to be 100% sue her looks is what i want. Then i come. She doent have to look at me, she doenst have to smile or anything.
I think i even prefer if woman is not sending me any interest signals.
 

ethnomethodologist

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Originally posted by MightyMate
Nope. I dont care if girl notices me or not. If i find her attractive i watch closely to be 100% sue her looks is what i want. Then i come. She doent have to look at me, she doenst have to smile or anything.
I think i even prefer if woman is not sending me any interest signals.
I prefer that too makes for more exciting sex.
 

reyalp

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yeah, especially when she yells stuff like "no", "stop", or "police!"

:crackup: :crackup:

completely j/k
 

ethnomethodologist

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Originally posted by MightyMate
I meant before talking to her ;)
And I meant from the time my friend says "WHOA did you see that HB9.9?" to me telling her to ride me when I wake up in the morning.

If we don't know eachother at first, just learning what the other person is like inside is great. The mystery is flowing between us always. I can create illusions about my life, and than make her feel small, than flip it on her pull away my greatness, and make her feel great instead. Than I can switch it and make her confirm how good I am, and than make her feel invincible. It's weird, I know, the words aren't right for you guys... Me and you MightyMate, we are both not english. I am using words to describe my language, you use words for yours. Everybody else looks at us and says "huh?"

How goes your record deal?
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Originally posted by ethnomethodologist
I'll be the first to ask a question...

Jariel, Francisco, tmpgstx, and surprisingly yout too MightyMate

I want your take on planning for the best, and fearing failure.

Do you simply follow the three second rule and do what you THINK is best from what you know?
I've learn to do whatever I want to do at that moment. I'll approach, I'll engage, maybe I get I date, maybe I don't. No matter the outcome I never fail.

Yeah you heard right. Here's why; my only objective ever is to approach, nothing more. With that in my mind, I alieve myself of the pressure of closing. It's amazing what can happen when you don't put that pressure on yourself. ;)
 

Jariel

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Thanks for the replies and interesting discussion.

Personally I don't follow any 3 second rule and never have. I stopped doing cold approaches too as I prefer to take time to get to know a woman first (trust me, it will save a LOT of sh1t!). But generally women who like you will make it easy for you to seduce her and render all the rules and strategies worthless.

By overcoming your faults and becoming a better person, you will increase your odds of women finding you attractive and more women will make it easy for you without you even trying. I'm not just talking about hitting the gym and getting in shape, but socialising more and making new friends to build confidence, charisma and social skills, among other things.
 

droughtstricken

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Well said. Women are the ones who are supposed to analyse everything then (act) mad when a guy doesn't see the tiny subtleties (splg?), while at the same time secretly respecting and envying the fact that we don't CARE about the tiny subtleties, and we just do our thing without obsessing over every conversation. Good post. One of my NYE resos (I made 16, something I've never done before I came to this site) is to stop thinking about em, forget em completely, go about my own business, i.e. satisfying the other 15 NYE resos, and the female side of **** sort itself out.
 
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