Stay away from cannabis, or no?

[ArcBound]

I'd personally like to believe pot is not that bad for you especially with relation to tobacco and other drugs people take...but I've seen too many people from high school turn into complete potheads while insisting they were in total control the whole time.

 

[Darth]

I'd personally like to believe pot is not that bad for you especially with relation to tobacco and other drugs people take...but I've seen too many people from high school turn into complete potheads while insisting they were in total control the whole time.

Me too. And boy did their personalities change.

 

[d!ckmojo]

Another one of my lecturers, who has actually written 3 books on drugs and holistic drug repair (Jost Sauer), I remember used to say that marijauna is a magnifier: i.e. it magnifies the emotional state that you're in.

So if you're already feeling super confident and alpha, smoking pot will just smooth that feeling out for you and give you a nice buzz to support it, and you'll still be all confident but also chill.

But if you feel flat or beta or intimidated or any negative emotion, smoking weed will deepen that hole you're in and make it harder to attain a positive emotional state.

He also strongly subscribes to the gateway drug theory, saying that after a while the effect of marijauna by itself will be too weak, and that the body will be depleted of feel good hormones like serotonin and dopamine and other endorphins, and so that's why people start combining it with other drugs (typically speed) to get that initial buzz going and then magnify it with weed.

 

[Alle_Gory]

He also strongly subscribes to the gateway drug theory, saying that after a while the effect of marijauna by itself will be too weak, and that the body will be depleted of feel good hormones like serotonin and dopamine and other endorphins, and so that's why people start combining it with other drugs (typically speed) to get that initial buzz going and then magnify it with weed.

The active ingredient in marijuanna is THC. There are specific receptors in the brain for THC. This is how marijuanna gets you high. It doesn't mess around with seretonin or dopamine which would explain why you don't get addicted to it... physically. It's about as addictive as World of Warcraft. It's all mental.

What was your professor teaching you?

 

[SeymourCake]

He also strongly subscribes to the gateway drug theory, saying that after a while the effect of marijauna by itself will be too weak, and that the body will be depleted of feel good hormones like serotonin and dopamine and other endorphins, and so that's why people start combining it with other drugs (typically speed) to get that initial buzz going and then magnify it with weed.

Lol I've been smoking weed since I was 13, and never has it crossed my mind that I wanted to try any other drug than just weed. I'm 21 now.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Lol I've been smoking weed since I was 13, and never has it crossed my mind that I wanted to try any other drug than just weed. I'm 21 now.

According to the gateway drug theory you should be somewhere around smoking meth and killing hookers at this stage in your life. So you can get that better high that you crave.

 

[d!ckmojo]

Not my gateway theory, Jost Sauer's. I recommend his first book: 'Higher and Higher', he explains it quite thoroughly. He was actually my Oriental Massage lecturer, but he was the most interesting and esoteric guy I've ever met.

I smoked for 10 years too and I didn't move on to harder drugs either. But of my circle of friends who we all used to smoke together, about half have also gotten heavily into amphetamines, ecstacy and cocaine since the innocent old days 10 (actually more like 12) years ago.

 

[d!ckmojo]

Another study~ don't get pissed off at me for cutting and pasting stuff. If you don't like it don't read it, I'm just contributing my $0.02.

Cannabis: Potent Anti-Depressant In Low Doses, Worsens Depression At High Doses
ScienceDaily (Oct. 24, 2007) — A new neurobiological study has found that a synthetic form of THC, the active ingredient in cannabis, is an effective anti-depressant at low doses. However, at higher doses, the effect reverses itself and can actually worsen depression and other psychiatric conditions like psychosis.

It has been known for many years that depletion of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain leads to depression, so SSRI-class anti-depressants like Prozac and Celexa work by enhancing the available concentration of serotonin in the brain. However, this study offers the first evidence that cannabis can also increase serotonin, at least at lower doses.
Laboratory animals were injected with the synthetic cannabinoid WIN55,212-2 and then tested with the Forced Swim test -- a test to measure "depression" in animals; the researchers observed an antidepressant effect of cannabinoids paralleled by an increased activity in the neurons that produce serotonin. However, increasing the cannabinoid dose beyond a set point completely undid the benefits, said Dr. Gabriella Gobbi of McGill University.
"Low doses had a potent anti-depressant effect, but when we increased the dose, the serotonin in the rats' brains actually dropped below the level of those in the control group. So we actually demonstrated a double effect: At low doses it increases serotonin, but at higher doses the effect is devastating, completely reversed."


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071023183937.htm

 

[juan95]

Do not do it.
I repeat, DO NOT DO IT.
I abused drugs, mostly cannabis, for a few months last year. My memory is shot (I'm hard-pressed to remember women's names), I can't think as quickly as I used to, and my IQ dropped by 10.
Just stay away from it!

 

[Alle_Gory]

Cannabis: Potent Anti-Depressant In Low Doses, Worsens Depression At High Doses

I see that but how much weed would you have to smoke in order to simulate those massive doses? They're using synthetic purified active ingredient.

I abused drugs, mostly cannabis, for a few months last year. My memory is shot (I'm hard-pressed to remember women's names), I can't think as quickly as I used to, and my IQ dropped by 10.

You can fix both problems by picking up a book and reading. Improves both memory and IQ drug free.

 

[omkara]

If you can maintain a healthy, active, productive lifestyle on it, then I think it's not a problem. But for some people, like me, it can take away motivation. I stopped smoking recently because it was not having a good effect on me. Even though I could make one 20 bag last for 2-3 months, once I have it, I will smoke almost every day. Although it was fun, at the end of those 2 months I knew I had to stop because:

- It was making my emotions more volatile, both good and bad. I would dwell more on things people would say and act accordingly and this would affect my relationships with them
- I was being more weird, which scared off a lot of girls (although occasionally came across as interesting)
- Everything was so much harder to do - work, waking up, going out, it seemed like there was a 50 pound weight on my life. In fact I have got back in the gym the same time I started smoking (a conscious effort on my part). Probably wouldn't have had the willpower if I was still under the influence.

I still struggle with motivation, but it makes it a little bit easier to accomplish things now that I stopped smoking.

Weed does affect memory, but in a study done that was cited at my work, most subjects were back to normal after 30 days. They were however, impaired after 24 hours.

Bottom line: if you get in a rut with smoking and it's affecting your level of functioning, it's good to take a break. There is a lot of propaganda that 'weed can't possibly be bad in any way,' from weed smokers. True, it will probably never ruin your life. But if you fall into a certain category of smoker, it could prevent you from reaching your full potential.

 

[ArcBound]

The active ingredient in marijuanna is THC. There are specific receptors in the brain for THC. This is how marijuanna gets you high. It doesn't mess around with seretonin or dopamine which would explain why you don't get addicted to it... physically. It's about as addictive as World of Warcraft. It's all mental.

What was your professor teaching you?

Yeah but mental addiction is still pretty powerful. World of Warcraft has been likened to cocaine and heroin in how it addicts a lot of people. And you have to remember not a lot of people are mentally strong. You're right in that a person can't physically get addicted to it, but I've seen a lot get psychologically addicted to it. Like they can't go more than 2 days or even a week without lighting up. People who refuse to function properly without getting their hit. That's addiction in my book, I don't care if its physical or mental. Obviously people can do it once in a while and be perfectly fine, but that's the perfect world where everyone does everything in moderation. Weed is too easy to get and relatively cheap and people abuse that sh!t and become addicted.

 

[Ramrod]

I'm personally against it but I have smoked it in the past. To answer I would say "everything in moderation" unless you have some underlying psychological issues, in which case I would strongly advise you to leave it alone.

 

[Rogue]

While I've done it myself, I don't recommend blazing while picking up the ladies. You need to keep your game as tight as it can be.

Your eyes will probably be bloodshot, unless you apply eye drops, and bloodshot eyes will be one strike against you. If you're too stoned that you struggle to hold up on conversation, you will blow yourself out of the water. Let there be at least two hours to sober up before getting your pimp on, when you can still feel some of the lingering effects of comfortable relaxation but are sober enough to have a clear head. It's nice to smoke up with a stoner chick at a house party, but otherwise, if you're the only one who's stoned, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage.

d!ckmojo:
Another one of my lecturers, who has actually written 3 books on drugs and holistic drug repair (Jost Sauer), I remember used to say that marijauna is a magnifier: i.e. it magnifies the emotional state that you're in. So if you're already feeling super confident and alpha, smoking pot will just smooth that feeling out for you and give you a nice buzz to support it, and you'll still be all confident but also chill. But if you feel flat or beta or intimidated or any negative emotion, smoking weed will deepen that hole you're in and make it harder to attain a positive emotional state.

He also strongly subscribes to the gateway drug theory, saying that after a while the effect of marijauna by itself will be too weak, and that the body will be depleted of feel good hormones like serotonin and dopamine and other endorphins, and so that's why people start combining it with other drugs (typically speed) to get that initial buzz going and then magnify it with weed.

Jost Sauer is not a medical doctor. He is an acupuncturist, and acupuncture is not an established medical discipline. He has no expertise on neurological or pharmacological issues.

The fact is marijuana is the first illicit drug which people try but alcohol comes before it and 99% of people who try marijuana do not go onto harder drugs. So, if anything, alcohol would be the gateway drug, yet when if ever do we hear warnings about alcohol leading to crystal meth? To illustrate the fallacy of the logic, through reductio ad absurdum: everyone who snorts cocaine and shoots up heroin first breathed air and drank water as a kid, therefore oxygen must be the gateway drug.

As for "Cannabis: Potent Anti-Depressant In Low Doses, Worsens Depression At High Doses":

Laboratory animals were injected with the synthetic cannabinoid WIN55,212-2 and then tested with the Forced Swim test -- a test to measure "depression" in animals; the researchers observed an antidepressant effect of cannabinoids paralleled by an increased activity in the neurons that produce serotonin. However, increasing the cannabinoid dose beyond a set point completely undid the benefits, said Dr. Gabriella Gobbi of McGill University.

"Low doses had a potent anti-depressant effect, but when we increased the dose, the serotonin in the rats' brains actually dropped below the level of those in the control group. So we actually demonstrated a double effect: At low doses it increases serotonin, but at higher doses the effect is devastating, completely reversed."

But were the animals re-tested at a later time? Like, a week later? Six weeks later? Six months? The caveat emptor with research findings on marijuana is the general focus on the short-term immediate effects while ignoring the long-term. The cognitive effects of marijuana are mostly gone by the next day, and any lingering effects are effectively gone by six weeks later. And like Alle Gory pointed out, what was the joint equivalent threshold for 'high' doses?

Here is a reaction by NORML to similar research:

(Cites four headlines which claim marijuana causes depression.)

Sounds scary, huh? It’s meant to. Only there’s three serious problems with the mainstream media’s alarmist coverage.

1) No adolescents — or for that matter, any human beings whatsoever — actually participated in the study.
2) No actual cannabis was consumed in the study.
3) No permanent brain damage was reported in the study.

Chronic exposure to cannabinoids during adolescence but not during adulthood impairs emotional behaviour and monoaminergic neurotransmission

via PubMed
“We tested this hypothesis by administering the CB(1) receptor agonist WIN55,212-2, once daily for 20 days to adolescent and adult rats. … Chronic adolescent exposure but not adult exposure to low (0.2 mg/kg) and high (1.0 mg/kg) doses led to depression-like behaviour in the forced swim and sucrose preference test, while the high dose also induced anxiety-like consequences in the novelty-suppressed feeding test. … These (findings) suggest that long-term exposure to cannabinoids during adolescence induces anxiety-like and depression-like behaviours in adulthood and that this may be instigated by serotonergic hypoactivity and noradrenergic hyperactivity.”

To summarize: Investigators administered daily doses of a highly potent synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonist WIN,55,212-2 to both adolescent rats and adult rats for 20 days. Days following their exposure, researchers documented altered serotonin production in younger rats. (Why investigators presumed that the change in serotonin production would be permanent I have no idea. After the initial 20-day waiting period, researchers do not appear to have tested the rats’ serotonin levels ever again.) Researchers also documented supposed depression-like and anxiety-like behavior in certain rats, based on various elaborate animal models and preference tests.

http://blog.norml.org/2009/12/29/reefer-mad-mainstream-media-does-it-again/

Same tune, different singer. Same horse, different rider.

 

[Alle_Gory]

People who refuse to function properly without getting their hit. That's addiction in my book, I don't care if its physical or mental. Obviously people can do it once in a while and be perfectly fine, but that's the perfect world where everyone does everything in moderation. Weed is too easy to get and relatively cheap and people abuse that sh!t and become addicted.

That's not the drug's fault because research shows that it's not physically addictive. Those same people you describe would have gotten addicted to something else instead of marijuana. Some people have very powerful addictive personalities. Whether World of Warcraft or getting high off solvent fumes from glue.

Should we ban glue and W.O.W. because some people can't control themselves?

Obviously not.

 

[SandHawk]

I'm a recreational drug user. I use cannabis, MDMA, XTC. And in all honesty: I like them, as a recreational drug. I smoke pot because it gives me a mellow feeling and I sleep great on it. I use XTC / MDMA when I'm going to raves or techno parties and keep going the entire night and space out.

HOWEVER, I would advice strong caution in combining the use of drugs and activities. I do go out to clubs and dance all night, without doing XTC, I can sleep without cannabis. There are just times where it's fun to use them. Don't fall into a habit where you're always smoking weed to get into a smooth zone to go pick up girls. In fact, I'd strongly advice that you keep them separated: It's great to smoke weed with your bros and chill out, and it's great to go into town and hit up chicks, but don't mix em together.

Keep them to separate activities and use drugs sparsely. Don't get doped up every weekend, or night, and roll with it. Keep in mind that the moment that your game become reliant on the use of pot, you're what you might call an addict. Because you cannot perform without the drugs. Always, and always keep in mind that when you are doing drugs, that you need to do it when you're feeling good and that you use it to add something, like super mario munching up a mushroom to become larger(funny, Mario munching shrooms). The moment you need the drugs to get to 100%, instead of going from 100% to 110%, you're screwed / addicted. Always check your motives before using drugs, and don't be afraid to say no.

 

[Darth]

Pros and cons of using the drug Marijuana.

CONS
Decrease in motivation and energy
Bloodshot eyes
Personality changes and changes in the brain
Less $$ in your pocket
Crap in your lungs
Less productivity
Bad smell
Less self-respect
Illegal

PROS

Nothing that you couldn't get and get better using other methods

 

[d!ckmojo]

Jost Sauer is not a medical doctor. He is an acupuncturist, and acupuncture is not an established medical discipline. He has no expertise on neurological or pharmacological issues.

.

ICB on that Rogue. What on earth makes a medical doctor arbitrarily a greater authority on any particular topic just by virtue of the letters in front of their name? All a doctor is is someone who's acquired a specialised knowledge on a particular topic. But anyone can acquire specialised knowledge in this day and age.

I once wanted to be a doctor. I read up the text books, I sat the GAMSAT. Got a 65~ pretty much good enough to get into any Med school in the country. I went to see a specialist one time about a medical issue, and I was just discussing the syndrome with him in the terminology I felt comfortable with, and do know what he said? "I think you should stop reading medical text books". He felt threatened by my possesion of such knowledge, because his entire value to society, and hence his high level of income, is utterly dependent on the exclusivity of his knowledge.

Doctors get so cut about the common-place practice these days of patients googling their own symptoms and researching into their own state of health. Why? Because its showing doctors up, its highlighting their high rates of errors and mis-diagnoses. But the truth is, doctors don't know as much about your own health as you do; and they don't really care about your health, certainly not as much as you do. How could they?

And then again, which type of knowledge is more valuable? Sterile laborotory results stripped of all context and meaning in the futile and pointless pursuit of isolating out the "placebo" effect, or real-world first-hand empirical experience?

Jost Sauer spent 15 years experimenting heavily with marijuana, LSD, amphetamines and cocaine, and then spent the next 25 years exploring holistic means of drug repair, both in himself and his patients. His authority on this subject is complete, and I'm calling out your bull$hit d1ckhead.

 

[handle]

If you guys are going to argue science you should find a review article or something rather than pulling up random journal articles. For instance, the 1975 paper: one guy mentioned that it's old and outdated. That might be true, or it might not -- some papers published before 1970 are just as valid today. Similarly, a lot of recent papers could be flawed. So I think it's a mistake to just throw random abstracts into the discussion, but it's also a mistake to say things like "well, mice aren't people and it's old so it doesn't matter". Does anyone know what happened to the author's findings? Were they built upon? Were they debunked? Did other labs find out something almost completely different?

Just my thoughts on it, there's a lot of misuse of science on this board.

 

[sd.boi69]

Always check your motives before using drugs, and don't be afraid to say no.

wow very true..