MetalFortress
Master Don Juan
---First off, I will commend you Metal Fortress, for not losing your cool. A lot of people get really defensive when they feel their views are being attacked, and though you have defended your beliefs, you kept your cool...I respect that!---
Thank you.
---Second of all, I want to apologize if my tone comes across as bitter or judgemental. It's just that I really do believe in what Jesus had to say and it angers me how his message has been distorted over time to suit the needs of the greedy...more on this in a bit.---
Regarding the Apocrypha, which you mentioned down there, it is still used in Roman Catholicism today, as far as I know.
---Correct me if I am wrong, but in order to be a Christian, you must condemn all other reilgions. My family is mostly "born-againers" and I have had this debate with them (and a few preachers) countless times. It's not so much that the message of Christianity is wrong. It's that you guys are so convinced you are right, that you completely disqualify everyone else's way of spirituality. In this way, Christians all play God, believing they have the divine answers and the rest of the world are Satan's brides.---
The reason we are convinced we are right, is because Jesus himself said that the only way to the Father is through the Son. Either Jesus said it and it was recorded, or it was completely made up and added in at random. Is this what you believe?
---The crux of my problem with these so-called "followers of Christ" is that they believe that good people go to hell just because they don't go through the formality of accepting Jesus, specifically, as their lord and savior. This is the very essence of what fundamentalism is all about, the message is the same in all extremist cults...."we are right and everyone else is going to hell"
Feel me?---
Read below.
---Your riddle is stuck inside the assumption that the Bible is 100% true and untainted by human corruption. Perhaps I am a lesser man for saying this, but I don't put nearly as much faith in mankind as you do!---
My "riddle" is only with the assumption that God sent His son Jesus to die for the sins of man. Do you believe that to be true? If so, how do other methods of getting to heaven fit in?
Also, the essence of pretty much every other religion is doing things to please God enough to get you into heaven/paradise/nirvana/a better reincarnation. Isn't this kind of like being God's court jester while on earth, and God saying "OFF WITH THE HEAD" if you don't amuse Him enough?
---It's impossible to prove the accuracy of historical events. All we can do is take different stories, and fit them together to make a big picture.---
Of course... this is where faith comes in.
As for the rest of it, I know the history, and I know that the church has been corrupted before, and been used to exact political power over entire civilizations. And I believe God will overthrow those churches which use their power for that - not directly but through His servants. Take, for example, Martin Luther and the Protestant reformers. If it weren't for them, what would the world be like today? Would the church rule the world, and have become even more corrupt? Would there be a USA? Would the Bible even exist anymore?
Today is the age of information, and there is no better time than the present era for God's word to be "uncorrupted", due to the ease of acquiring and finding information. If you are right and words Jesus spoke declaring that which goes against traditional Biblical Christian beliefs today, then let it come. If not, then so be it.
"The way genuine Christians can be recognized was explained by Jesus himself: "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." (John 13:35)
Notice he makes no mention of his divine status here. Strange, isn't it? "
Not really. His status is pretty much assumed at this point.
Thank you.
---Second of all, I want to apologize if my tone comes across as bitter or judgemental. It's just that I really do believe in what Jesus had to say and it angers me how his message has been distorted over time to suit the needs of the greedy...more on this in a bit.---
Regarding the Apocrypha, which you mentioned down there, it is still used in Roman Catholicism today, as far as I know.
---Correct me if I am wrong, but in order to be a Christian, you must condemn all other reilgions. My family is mostly "born-againers" and I have had this debate with them (and a few preachers) countless times. It's not so much that the message of Christianity is wrong. It's that you guys are so convinced you are right, that you completely disqualify everyone else's way of spirituality. In this way, Christians all play God, believing they have the divine answers and the rest of the world are Satan's brides.---
The reason we are convinced we are right, is because Jesus himself said that the only way to the Father is through the Son. Either Jesus said it and it was recorded, or it was completely made up and added in at random. Is this what you believe?
---The crux of my problem with these so-called "followers of Christ" is that they believe that good people go to hell just because they don't go through the formality of accepting Jesus, specifically, as their lord and savior. This is the very essence of what fundamentalism is all about, the message is the same in all extremist cults...."we are right and everyone else is going to hell"
Feel me?---
Read below.
---Your riddle is stuck inside the assumption that the Bible is 100% true and untainted by human corruption. Perhaps I am a lesser man for saying this, but I don't put nearly as much faith in mankind as you do!---
My "riddle" is only with the assumption that God sent His son Jesus to die for the sins of man. Do you believe that to be true? If so, how do other methods of getting to heaven fit in?
Also, the essence of pretty much every other religion is doing things to please God enough to get you into heaven/paradise/nirvana/a better reincarnation. Isn't this kind of like being God's court jester while on earth, and God saying "OFF WITH THE HEAD" if you don't amuse Him enough?
---It's impossible to prove the accuracy of historical events. All we can do is take different stories, and fit them together to make a big picture.---
Of course... this is where faith comes in.
As for the rest of it, I know the history, and I know that the church has been corrupted before, and been used to exact political power over entire civilizations. And I believe God will overthrow those churches which use their power for that - not directly but through His servants. Take, for example, Martin Luther and the Protestant reformers. If it weren't for them, what would the world be like today? Would the church rule the world, and have become even more corrupt? Would there be a USA? Would the Bible even exist anymore?
Today is the age of information, and there is no better time than the present era for God's word to be "uncorrupted", due to the ease of acquiring and finding information. If you are right and words Jesus spoke declaring that which goes against traditional Biblical Christian beliefs today, then let it come. If not, then so be it.
"The way genuine Christians can be recognized was explained by Jesus himself: "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." (John 13:35)
Notice he makes no mention of his divine status here. Strange, isn't it? "
Not really. His status is pretty much assumed at this point.