some kid shoots up the school again

[Lost]

I highly agree with:
Engetsu
diplomatic_lies

I disagree with:
Levex

lol now im gonna go listen to eminem - the way i am .. which is what came to mind whenever ppl blame this **** on media influence such as music ( marilyn manson)



"And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately
points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up
when you don't give a fvck
When you won't just put up
with the bullsh1t they pull
Cause they full of sh1t too
When a dude's gettin bullied and shoots up his school
And they blame it on Marilyn - and the heroin
Where were the parents at?
And look at where it's at
middle America
Now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see
An upper class city having this happening

Strangely, this is my favorite rap songs (not necessarily because of the content... Just because he raps so well in it... but ill not steal this post .

 

[penkitten]

and this is another un happy ending when a kid was probally taught right from wrong , yet chose to do the wrong and then society has no clue of why he did it , cant stomach the thought that he actually choose to do it on his own, and brings up a song on the radio that "must be the cause".

face it america, we have a bunch of bad apples! and guess what , society is responsible!


where in the sam heck did the kid get his gun???

 

[familyguyfan]

Originally posted by liberal
Is the blame on the video games and Eminem...or does it lie with the parents?

The blame in these cases usually goes to video games and Eminem, but it should be going to the parents.


Yeah, this kid was messed up because of a sh*tty childhood and adolescence. It doesn't excuse his behavior in the least, but merely explains where it comes from.

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by familyguyfan
The blame in these cases usually goes to video games and Eminem, but it should be going to the parents.


Yeah, this kid was messed up because of a sh*tty childhood and adolescence. It doesn't excuse his behavior in the least, but merely explains where it comes from.

exactly and why is the blame on video games and enimem when it should be on WHERE THE HECK DID THE GUN COME FROM??

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by penkitten
and this is another un happy ending when a kid was probally taught right from wrong , yet chose to do the wrong and then society has no clue of why he did it , cant stomach the thought that he actually choose to do it on his own, and brings up a song on the radio that "must be the cause".

face it america, we have a bunch of bad apples! and guess what , society is responsible!


where in the sam heck did the kid get his gun???

His grandfather was a retired cop. The kid took his police issue gun from what the papers are saying.

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
His grandfather was a retired cop. The kid took his police issue gun from what the papers are saying.

is the paper saying why grandpa left the gun laying around or how the kid got into a locked gun cabinet and grandpa reported it missing?

this is my concern of why not everyone can just have a gun, for fear of the children!!

 

[penkitten]

nevermind, i found what happened...

lets blame hitler for all of it.

 

[Wyldfire]

The kid was 15 years old. The papers don't say how old he was when his mother got into the car accident and got the brain injury that put her in a nursing home, but his father committed suicide when the kid was 11. Mental illness was most likely a factor in that event, and mental illness tends to run in families. Here you have a kid who most likely suffered from depression and possibly Post Traumatic Stress Disorder due to a predisposition to such things and the trauma that a child experiences when a parent kills themself. His mother wasn't available to him for nurturing and caring because she's in a nursing home with a brain injury. He lived with his grandfather...a retired cop who had likely seen it all and become desensitized to violence and death. Not too likely a very good source of nurturing and emotional support for such a troubled child. The woman his grandfather was married to was not his grandmother, so she had likely already passed away.

Take a kid in this situation and stick him in your average high school where kids are brutally cruel to those who don't quite fit in and teachers and staff who simply just don't usually give a sh*t and turn the other way too often. You now have an extremely troubled child who is angry, resentful and feels powerless to change his situation. Give the kid internet access and he finds a hate site where he lets loose his rage and anger amid others similar to him. He picks up some of the attitudes and beliefs of those on that site because, for once, he feels like he actually fits in. Let there be relatively easy access to a weapon and you can see very clearly what happened. You could easily predict this boy was at risk for something like this. No, you can't predict which at-risk kid is going to snap...but you CAN tell which ones are at risk to snap.

Now...where does the responsibility lie? Yes, much of it lies on the shoulders of the boy who did this. However...the grandfather probably could have kept the gun stored in a way that the boy couldn't get his hands on it. He could also have had the boy in therapy...and he may have, I don't recall reading if he was or not. And a great deal of responsibility falls on the school. The professionals (and I use the term lightly) at the school are TRAINED to identify "at-risk" kids and it is their JOB to advocate services for such kids. It is also their job to provide a safe and positive environment for children to learn in. Yet go into any school and you will see an incredible level of abuse and harassment among the kids. School officials are fully aware of this and take on the "kids will be kids" attitude. Basically...most school employees are just lazy and don't want to bother. If the school had of provided a safe and positive environment for the boy to get an education it's highly unlikely he would have taken that gun into the school and killed all those people, even if he had of gotten the gun. He may have still killed himself, but if help had been given to him over the course of the previous 4 years when he so desperately needed it he may not have taken so many others with him.

 

[diplomatic_lie]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
The professionals (and I use the term lightly) at the school are TRAINED to identify "at-risk" kids and it is their JOB to advocate services for such kids.

Schools don't have the money to provide $200/hour psychiatric care services, nor should they need to. At best, a school can expel or arrest a kid who is at risk for dangerous activities.

Yet go into any school and you will see an incredible level of abuse and harassment among the kids.

That happens at work too, except it's more subtle. If you spoil a kid by giving him a 100% safe and loving environment, he will grow up to be naive and stupid, and get chewed up at work.

If the school had of provided a safe and positive environment for the boy to get an education it's highly unlikely he would have taken that gun into the school and killed all those people, even if he had of gotten the gun.

I agree with this one. Schools should have metal detectors and guard dogs (or armed guards) to take down dangerous students.

 

[Wyldfire]

dl...if you read the policy and procedure guidelines and mission statements of any school they cover these things...and the schools do nothing. You're talking to the parent of a child who dropped out of high school at 16 due to harassment and abuse. The school did NOTHING with exception of one guidance counselor who tried so hard to help but was prevented from doing anything she wanted to by the administration. Luckily my state has an Adult Diploma Program so my kid can still graduate without having to deal with the damn abuse.

 

[TheInfamousCBear]

All I can say is this...The stakes are higher now...Dont bully people, cause I think its fukked up what the boy did, but I can see where hes coming from...I remember when I was in 9th/10th grade, I was poor as sh1t going to a school full of rich kids, I used to get picked on to the point where I would get physically sick, I never saw my friends or my mom cause she worked 2 jobs, and when I did see her, she was yelling at me about my grades...She didnt know that my grades were so low cause I couldnt even concentrate in class cause I was getting sh1tted on, I used to go whole days at a time not saying a word cause I was so angry at everyone...One day I was gonna stab this kid in the eye with a pencil in front of the teacher...But that same kid, he got expelled and his mom died in the pentagon on 9/11...Moral of the story, teach kids not to fukk with each other like that cause its not even that serious, just let kids like man...

 

[Engetsu]

I agree that a big part of the responsibility lies on the disturbed kid's shoulders, but we must take note of the behaviour of the kids around him that triggered this violent outburst. As we know, modernity brought humans to embrace an individualistic lifestyle, where everyone can cohabit peacefully, while having his own morals as values, and where the State interferes only to provide equality among individuals. However, this is only valid in theory, since human beings are still prone to form small collectivities in our modern world: thus the birth of sects, sects being anything varying from a social group to an online community (yes, that's us ). The downside of sects, is that they are often intolerant to other ideologies (for example, many DJs believe that they possess to key to a better life, and anyone who diverges from their way of thinking is wrong, and will never have success with women). This is exactly what has happened in this kid's school. The other children, having formed a sect of their own (the kids who follow trends, dress in a stylish way, who are outgoing, etc.) automatically secluded the killer, who was, not-so-suprisingly, a loner. Maybe, if he wasn't abused psychologically by the other children, he wouldn't have turned to the nazi ideology, but that is not the purpose of my post. What I am talking about here is the problem of intolerance that strikes out society.

The solution to this problem that is hitting our modern societies by storm is, in part, a reform of the educational system. Of course, short-term solutions can be brought up in order to help the problematic children, but another solution lies in the long-term: kids should be brought up with the mentality of being open-minded, and respecting each other's differences. And a child does not only form his way of thinking from the education he receives at school, but he also builds this type of mentality in his direct environment, meaning the family. Nowadays, a lot of families seem to be lacking tolerance values. Want proof? Look around you! Try to find a Palestinian who is brought up with the fact that not all Jewish people are sionists who could care less about the rights of Palestinians over their own lands: you won't find one. Palestinians are brought up with hate. Rare are the families who bring up their kids with the ideas that every single person should be respected, no matter how they dress, talk, or behave. Usually, this issue is not adressed at all, and kids obey their primary instinct which is to form a community, and treat the people different to them as outcasts.

I'll stop here, to check out what you guys (and girls?) think.

 

[Levex]

just to clear this up: i'm not the one blaming it on any form of media,i was just saying that after something like this happens a bunch of new scientific researches and findings come out that link the two.

Lost, i really can't see what you disagree with me on...

 

[TheInfamousCBear]

Originally posted by Engetsu

I'll stop here, to check out what you guys (and girls?) think.

Its not gonna happen, cause you cant change human nature...People are better off teaching their children to be stronger, cause things are gonna get worse, they arnt gonna get any better...Its funny, my cousin told me you have to be strong as hell to be yourself...Aint that the truth...

 

[Engetsu]

Originally posted by TheInfamousCBear
Its not gonna happen, cause you cant change human nature...People are better off teaching their children to be stronger, cause things are gonna get worse, they arnt gonna get any better...Its funny, my cousin told me you have to be strong as hell to be yourself...Aint that the truth...

It is the truth. I understand what you mean when you say that stronger kids will handle themselves better in the society, and that's exactly why I would like to add something to what you have said. You say that people are "better off" teaching their kids to be stronger, whereas nothing prevents a parent from teaching their kid to be strong as well as having tolerance and respect for someone who is different.

If you don't laugh and throw stones at the goth, does that mean you are weak? You're right, you can't change human nature. But that doesn't mean that you cannot learn how to tame it! It takes a stronger and wiser man to hold back and control his primal instincts.

 

[Lost]

Originally posted by TheInfamousCBear
Its not gonna happen, cause you cant change human nature...People are better off teaching their children to be stronger, cause things are gonna get worse, they arnt gonna get any better...Its funny, my cousin told me you have to be strong as hell to be yourself...Aint that the truth...

to quote Sylvester Stallone from Rocky 4 "If i can change, and you can change, WE CAN ALL CHANGE!"

 

[Centaurion]

Thats really sad.

But havn't you guys ever been in a boooring lecture, getting really annoyed because some dispsh*t keeps asking stupid question, and wonderd how it would be to just wip out a couple of macs and just go postal?

heh..

 

[TheInfamousCBear]

Originally posted by Engetsu
It is the truth. I understand what you mean when you say that stronger kids will handle themselves better in the society, and that's exactly why I would like to add something to what you have said. You say that people are "better off" teaching their kids to be stronger, whereas nothing prevents a parent from teaching their kid to be strong as well as having tolerance and respect for someone who is different.

If you don't laugh and throw stones at the goth, does that mean you are weak? You're right, you can't change human nature. But that doesn't mean that you cannot learn how to tame it! It takes a stronger and wiser man to hold back and control his primal instincts.

Thats gonna take alot of time, and even then you wont make everyone feel that way, people know whats right and wrong and theyre gonna do what they want...Those one or two people might be the straws that break the camel's back...But some is better then none when it comes to teaching kids sh1t like this...

 

[defiancy]

thats so insane

one of my friends was hit by a car today and shes in the hospital

sad stuff and every year seems to get worse for everyone

 

[Wubbman]

Why can't ****bags like this off themselves before they go on a shooting spree? I wonder if he ever stopped to realized that Hitler would have thrown him in a concentration camp along with the Jews and other "undesirables."