Some guy on MGTOW

[Bokanovsky]

OK so you are asking about the benefits of marriage. I will do my best to list a few that are from my perspective the reasons why I could see myself getting married very far in the future and why I think my risk is much lower than 50%.

1) Kids who have parents that are continuously married do better in all metrics of life not only as a child BUT UP TO 40 years old!

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uplo...ng-at-each-life-stage-by-family-structure.jpg

ArcBound, you have just committed the number one sin of statistical analysis, namely confusing correlation with causation. While it may be true that children with married parents are better off, there could be a number of explanations for this phenomenon. Most likely, the correlation is due to the fact that people who are good parents have traditional, conservative social values and are therefore both, more likely to marry and raise their kids properly. But that's not say that they are raising their kids properly because they are married. If marriage was outlawed tomorrow, those very same parents would still be doing an equally good job parenting.

You need to stop treating marriage like it is some kind of a magical institution that makes people better. Stripped off all the romantic fluff, marriage is a commercial contract at its core. And if you are a man and/or a person who earns substantially more than their spouse, it can be a very bad bargain.

 

[Tenacity]

ArcBound, you have just committed the number one sin of statistical analysis, namely confusing correlation with causation. While it may be true that children with married parents are better off, there could be a number of explanations for this phenomenon. Most likely, the correlation is due to the fact that people who are good parents have traditional, conservative social values and are therefore both, more likely to marry and raise their kids properly. But that's not say that they are raising their kids properly because they are married. If marriage was outlawed tomorrow, those very same parents would still be doing an equally good job parenting.

You need to stop treating marriage like it is some kind of a magical institution that makes people better. Stripped off all the romantic fluff, marriage is a commercial contract at its core. And if you are a man and/or a person who earns substantially more than their spouse, it can be a very bad bargain.

^^^ Right here, Arcbound this is what guys like you have to understand at its fundamental core.

Marriage and creating children with women are LEGAL CONTRACTS, they are business deals. Surely you can enter them based on whatever concept of "love" that you have, but you have to understand you are entering into a legally binding contract that has various forms of sanctions, fines, jailtime, and/or financial ruin if you do not properly manage these legal arrangements.

I rarely see guys like you Arcbound, discussing the commercial/legal side of these types of things, I only see you discussing the emotional side of it. That's like picking a college degree just because you "like it" without analyzing it's commercial return on investment. Just because I like "theater" doesn't mean I should major in it lol.

The reason Tenacity isn't getting married is due to the commercial/legal side of things. I know the LAW. And the laws are very INEFFICIENT. And if me and my "soulmate" get into beefs, I'm pretty much going to have a financial setback based on these LAWS.

Too many guys don't even understand the laws.

 

[Tenacity]

Danger,

Guys like me and you, who bring attention to these things and opt out of these insane unfair laws, are apart of the solution. I'm sorry to say but guys like ArcBound and jurry are apart of the problem.

It's kind of like this, you know how they say that if you don't LIKE a particular TV show, you should just opt out of watching it? If nobody watches the show it goes off air or changes its concept.

There's no damn pressure for these laws to change, because men are still running head first into them. The entire damn industry is built upon men still signing up for this bullshyt under the premise Arcbound presents which is that if you just "filter right" you ought to be okay because your girl is "different".

The only way the laws will change is if you STOP signing up for this bullshyt.

Say what you want about women, but women have some common sense and apparently guys DON'T. Because the women that have been screwed over by these laws, they go and make damn sure NONE of their girlfriends sign up for this shyt. But men, having been screwed over, STILL sign up to be screwed over again.

It makes no fvcking sense.

Wait until you have about 20% of women being screwed over by these laws, WATCH don't they get out and march, protest and bytch to have them changed. While men sit here silently despite having been screwed left and right.

 

[jurry]

Ultimately we are asking men to assume all of the risk of marriage no, "we" arent. We are asking men to provide support to their children (and support to their ex wife if she is raising them) if the marriage endsand women assume what risk?

For men the narrative is to sacrifice (women and children first), even now in this thread men are being asked to sacrifice "for the children", which is a common argument used to push men to action.

I want to know, what are women going to sacrifice for the sake of the children? Seriously. Perhaps the most ignorant and selfish comment youve ever made. Go ask your mother this question or some mother on the street and see how fast you get slapped across the faceWe ask men to assume all of the risk of marriage to "help the children" while we let women abort them away. Is there truly any question as to the rank of importance society has placed upon women, children and men?

More absurd victimhood. Because some small percentage of men get fvcked over in divorce, this means that the importance of men in society is placed behind women and children. Thats literally your argument. You guys are just trolling right?

 

[Tenacity]

More absurd victimhood. Because some small percentage of men get fvcked over in divorce, this means that the importance of men in society is placed behind women and children. Thats literally your argument. Ridiculous.

jurry, tell you what man, just go and marry you an American chick dude lol. Have fun with that. Just don't say you wasn't warned.

 

[LiveFreeX]

The solution here Tenacity is men need to NOT go their own way. They need to get married, have families and BE strong, masculine role models and as a group RALLY and stand up against women and political bullies.

The opinions of single men going their own way are usually not counted by society... its only the opinions of family with ultra strong value systems that will make any difference in the long run. The only place where single men are having an impact is the big C and none of those guys are trying to go their own way, there are just no women for them to marry. I believe current estimates of 28 million may be wrong... it might be somewhere around the 100 million mark. Lesbianism is becoming a new fad in South C and those angry, single, bitter, pvssy deprived men are going to be making a huge mark on the world very soon.

I was accosted on the subway recently by several very angry singles just being seen BESIDE my wife (no hand holding or anything). Sh1t is getting real and I think we'll see outright rioting shortly.

 

[goodganji44]

I agree with a lot of Tenacity's points. I think MGTOW gets too much flak on here. But I think it's because of a misinterpretation of what MGTOW is.

I consider myself a MGTOW. However, I still go on dates and flirt and talk to women. I just absolutely refuse to indulge in anything but sex and companionship with them. As others have said, I will not risk everything that I've worked my entire life for to lose it all to a woman. I have no brothers or sisters or anyone that looked after me, plus combine that by being an African American male who grew up in the hood by a single mother pretty much made me a MGTOW out the womb by mistake.

MGTOW put me in the position at 31 years old to have my house, luxury car paid for, good job and secure future. I WILL NOT allow anyone else to fvck my sht up.

Admittedly, I am at the tail end of the anger phase that Tenacity is going through. Women on the risk/reward scale are not a smart gamble. But I've come to accept the fact that Women are the way they are and I will have no choice but to adjust accordingly. I plan on going to Brazil later and from what I hear, they have the old school mannerisms that we expect from women.

I'm very happy being able to say I have the freedom to do literally whatever I want. However after climbing out of the anger phase, I've come to grips with the fact that as a man, I have an undying urge to long for a meaningful relationship with someone who respects me as a man and treats me as such without all of the bullsht. It still doesn't change my perspective on how women are, but I'm more patient in how to deal with it.

In either case, the minute I'm tired of the single life is the minute I'm flying out to Brazil. I strongly advise everyone to click on the youtube link and you'll see why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOjvPOBvd9A

 

[jurry]

And men do provide this support, but apparently you are missing the point. You are here bashing MRA and suggesting they don't provide support.

No, you just made this up.

But here is the actual data on the subject. Men are FAR less likely to even get custody (as I stated, but you don't care about that), and Men are FAR more likely to pay than women are (but again, you only care about the women).

Men are far less likely to request custody, in turn they would pay more since they arent raising the kids

So again I ask, why do you have all of these expectations of men, when clearly it is women getting the custody and NOT making payments?

It is not always women, this trend has been declining recently as joint custody becomes more common.

This answer of yours ...

• Suggests that I am wrong to ask the question.
• Calls me a name for having the audacity to ask it.
• And then presumes to state that women are the authority on the subject.

Why don't you answer the subject jurry? You're the one pushing for men to make the sacrifices and asking nothing of the women. So step up and support your argument.

Again just absurd arguments youve decided I am making to argue the point you want instead of reading what I write.


That is one of the many reasons men are just walking wallets and sperm donors to society.

So, instead of calling names, justify your stance on the argument. Let's hear your data and supporting arguments, or do you only have names and vague references Zarky?

The data speaks for itself everything that has been presented thus far supports what I am saying, so what are you talking about?

 

[jurry]

I never said men file for custody only 10% of the time, I never said men dont provide support. I never said I am asking nothing of women in return. Then you have to ask me what women are sacrificing by raising and caring for the children when they have custody of them?! Then you write of the 10% who get custody 30% receive payments compared to 55% of women, followed by saying men do not get payments at all! Lol.

This is why it is impossible to discuss anything with you. You create false arguments or just post outright lies, you twist your own data around to try and present reality differently. Other commenters repeatedly say the same thing about you. You are so dead-set on being correct absolutely 100% of the time you have to paint every argument in extreme, black or white scenarios then try and rally other posters around to your side.

This is literally arguing with a toddler who has no interest in anything other than scoring points and declaring an internet victory for himself. Not worth my time, as usual.

 

[backbreaker]

@backbreaker

I agree with a lot of your points (not all) but you can do it without an expletive every other word. I've seen you type much more eloquently, and it is easier to move a debate along if you had actual points people could understand. The MGTOW is more than white guys, as the phenomenon of Herbivore men in Japan attest to, and the fact that there is a significant portion of black American men in MGTOW as well.

You can talk about the hardships in your early life if you want ( and we know you had many by how many times you mention it )and talk about that but you and I both know you didn't need to bring race into this topic.

Okay I have time now. BTW my wife did go in labor on Friday, I have a new baby girl . I'm at the hosptial now and my wife and baby are both knocked out. Her name is Chanel


Anyway I now have a bit to expand more thoughtfully on my point of view on this subject.


First of all, you have to make a clear line between PUA, the mansophere and MGOTW. All three are 3 separate things yet all get lumped in together. I saw a guy in another thread say "I think I'm somewhat of a MGOTW, I just go on a few days but I don't want anything serious". You're not a MGOTW then. You're a guy who has swollwed the red pill.


So before we go any futher on the subject, let's make a clear distinction between the three


PUAs - These are guys that are interested in just one thing. Getting laid. They don't care about things like, feminism or hypergamy or men's rights or anything of the sort. They care about ****ing hot women. I'm not saying this is a right point of view or a wrong point of view, but this is the correct point of view for someone who is a ture PUA. They want to pick up and **** as many HB's as possible


Mansophere - The mansosphere in general revolves around guys who in general buy in to the mindset that men are conditioned wrongly in how to deal with women, who feel that everything or at least most of what they have learned about women is wrong and is full of new thoughts and theories on how to deal with women. For short term or long term.


You have guys in the manophere who are married you have guys who are single. You have guys who just want to pump and dump you have guys looking for LTRs. The thing that combines everyone in the manosphere is that they all believe that the way they were taught to go about doing these thing, rather it be by their parents, the media, news, women in genearl, were wrong.
[

This is where terminology such as, Alpha / BETA male, hypergamy, feminism, etc come into play. To have one better understand the underlying dynamics of women's motives and to help have a better understanding of the general playing field.


MGOTW- Men going their own way, specifically, are "sick and tired" of women and want nothing more to do with them and feel like their lives would be better without them in it.


So note, when I rant against MGOTW I'm not ranting against anything else. I've swallowed the red pill quote myself, I consider myself part of the manosphere. The problem I have is specifically with people in the MTOGW movement


There are a few issues that I have with the MGOTW movement and I will address them here


1. The irony, or lack thereof, of having your "main headquarters" be on a men's seduction website. This is, literally, no different than having abstinence meetings every night in a strip club or having an AA meeting at a sports bar


2. They never promote anything anything interesting. You never read a MGOTW post about a guy in MGOTW doing something awesome. Like man I took the weekend and went mountain climbing or I've been working on this new guitar solo man check it out. I mean okay you're going your own way, but what are you doing while you are going your own way? Why should other men be excited to go their own way with you? What do they have to look forward to? More free time? A better outlook on life? I'm not seeing any of this


The fact is, men in MGOTW spend just as much time, *****ing about women then they would being with women so what's the point?


3. MGOTW not only hate women, they hate blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, Obama lol, liberals, pretty much everyone. So not only are you teaching men to hate women you're teaching men to be narrow minded bigots.


4. MGOTW basically uses this website to "recruit" new members. Any real movement doesn't have to "recruit" new members. When I had my drug problem no one had to recruit my ass to AA lol. I knew i needed help and I took my ass to the nearest AA meeting I could find. When I needed help with women no one had to recruit me to this website I found it on my own. IF the movement really had traction they would leave this site alone and go their own way (no pun intended) and let the true believers follow them there, but they just muddy up the site's original purpose.


I have a friend I showed this site about a year ago and he browsed for like 2 weeks and was like man those dudes there are crazy as hell why would you post there lol? Everyone there is racist and hates women.


5. I'm gonna take some slack for this but I really do not give a ****, but MGOTW is basically white privilege gone array. You have a segment of guys who expect becuase they are white and everything that comes with being white, that high quality women should throw themselves at them and in 2015 the playing field is more fierce than ever and instead of bettering themselves, getting more game, getting more whatever, they would rather "go their own way".


One thing about being a minority, rather it be a black man or an asian man or a Hispanic man in america, you learn at a very early age, that there are some facets of life that just aren't fair, are never gonna be fair and you make your peace with it and move on. Every once in a while I'm gonna go somewhere and they are going to treat me differently because of my skin color. There are going to be girls that for whatever the reason may be, maybe she has had bad experiences with black men or she has a certain image of what a black man is, is not gonna give me the time of day no matter how "compatible" we are, and there is nothing I can do about it but shake it off and make the best of the situation. ONe of the things my wife loves about me is compared to the guys that she's dated in the past, I'm more "old school" even though I'm 7 years younger than she is and she's never dated anyone younger than her. I don't *****, I don't whine, I don't complain about how unfair **** is, I just deal with **** and move on. That's a very attractive trait to have if you want to attract high quality women.

I don't blame white people for this. I don't blame President Bush or any other president, I don't' blame police officers or anyone else, it's just life. it's how life is and you deal with it and you move on.


I would have more respect for MGOTW if they actually just went their own way. But they won't. They just want to ***** and blame everyone else for their shortcomings and don't want to deal with any adversity in life. I can't respect that.


The avg MGOTWer is

20-26 years old
white
has both parents
middle class background
is reasonably intelligent
from the south or mid west


What in the **** could possibly go so wrong in your life where you're that ****ing bitter lol, you're that mad at everyone and you were born with the world at your feet basically. I suspect at least..50% of them have an diagnosed mental illness. I bet if you put everyone in MGOTW on lexapro for 3 months their numbers would decrease by more than half.


I mean, it's a free country, if that's your thing do your thing. But there are a lot of people here who just want to get laid. Or want to be able to go on dates. Or be able to have sex with good looking women on a semi consistent basis. I believe, that person, should be able to get the advice and support that person wants, without having to wade through the rest of the bull**** to get it.

If anything just give the MGOTWsers their sub forum so they could leave the rest of us alone

 

[Peña]

Okay I have time now. BTW my wife did go in labor on Friday, I have a new baby girl . I'm at the hosptial now and my wife and baby are both knocked out. Her name is Chanel


Anyway I now have a bit to expand more thoughtfully on my point of view on this subject.


First of all, you have to make a clear line between PUA, the mansophere and MGOTW. All three are 3 separate things yet all get lumped in together. I saw a guy in another thread say "I think I'm somewhat of a MGOTW, I just go on a few days but I don't want anything serious". You're not a MGOTW then. You're a guy who has swollwed the red pill.


So before we go any futher on the subject, let's make a clear distinction between the three


PUAs - These are guys that are interested in just one thing. Getting laid. They don't care about things like, feminism or hypergamy or men's rights or anything of the sort. They care about ****ing hot women. I'm not saying this is a right point of view or a wrong point of view, but this is the correct point of view for someone who is a ture PUA. They want to pick up and **** as many HB's as possible


Mansophere - The mansosphere in general revolves around guys who in general buy in to the mindset that men are conditioned wrongly in how to deal with women, who feel that everything or at least most of what they have learned about women is wrong and is full of new thoughts and theories on how to deal with women. For short term or long term.


You have guys in the manophere who are married you have guys who are single. You have guys who just want to pump and dump you have guys looking for LTRs. The thing that combines everyone in the manosphere is that they all believe that the way they were taught to go about doing these thing, rather it be by their parents, the media, news, women in genearl, were wrong.
[

This is where terminology such as, Alpha / BETA male, hypergamy, feminism, etc come into play. To have one better understand the underlying dynamics of women's motives and to help have a better understanding of the general playing field.


MGOTW- Men going their own way, specifically, are "sick and tired" of women and want nothing more to do with them and feel like their lives would be better without them in it.


So note, when I rant against MGOTW I'm not ranting against anything else. I've swallowed the red pill quote myself, I consider myself part of the manosphere. The problem I have is specifically with people in the MTOGW movement


There are a few issues that I have with the MGOTW movement and I will address them here


1. The irony, or lack thereof, of having your "main headquarters" be on a men's seduction website. This is, literally, no different than having abstinence meetings every night in a strip club or having an AA meeting at a sports bar


2. They never promote anything anything interesting. You never read a MGOTW post about a guy in MGOTW doing something awesome. Like man I took the weekend and went mountain climbing or I've been working on this new guitar solo man check it out. I mean okay you're going your own way, but what are you doing while you are going your own way? Why should other men be excited to go their own way with you? What do they have to look forward to? More free time? A better outlook on life? I'm not seeing any of this


The fact is, men in MGOTW spend just as much time, *****ing about women then they would being with women so what's the point?


3. MGOTW not only hate women, they hate blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, Obama lol, liberals, pretty much everyone. So not only are you teaching men to hate women you're teaching men to be narrow minded bigots.


4. MGOTW basically uses this website to "recruit" new members. Any real movement doesn't have to "recruit" new members. When I had my drug problem no one had to recruit my ass to AA lol. I knew i needed help and I took my ass to the nearest AA meeting I could find. When I needed help with women no one had to recruit me to this website I found it on my own. IF the movement really had traction they would leave this site alone and go their own way (no pun intended) and let the true believers follow them there, but they just muddy up the site's original purpose.


I have a friend I showed this site about a year ago and he browsed for like 2 weeks and was like man those dudes there are crazy as hell why would you post there lol? Everyone there is racist and hates women.


5. I'm gonna take some slack for this but I really do not give a ****, but MGOTW is basically white privilege gone array. You have a segment of guys who expect becuase they are white and everything that comes with being white, that high quality women should throw themselves at them and in 2015 the playing field is more fierce than ever and instead of bettering themselves, getting more game, getting more whatever, they would rather "go their own way".


One thing about being a minority, rather it be a black man or an asian man or a Hispanic man in america, you learn at a very early age, that there are some facets of life that just aren't fair, are never gonna be fair and you make your peace with it and move on. Every once in a while I'm gonna go somewhere and they are going to treat me differently because of my skin color. There are going to be girls that for whatever the reason may be, maybe she has had bad experiences with black men or she has a certain image of what a black man is, is not gonna give me the time of day no matter how "compatible" we are, and there is nothing I can do about it but shake it off and make the best of the situation. ONe of the things my wife loves about me is compared to the guys that she's dated in the past, I'm more "old school" even though I'm 7 years younger than she is and she's never dated anyone younger than her. I don't *****, I don't whine, I don't complain about how unfair **** is, I just deal with **** and move on. That's a very attractive trait to have if you want to attract high quality women.

I don't blame white people for this. I don't blame President Bush or any other president, I don't' blame police officers or anyone else, it's just life. it's how life is and you deal with it and you move on.


I would have more respect for MGOTW if they actually just went their own way. But they won't. They just want to ***** and blame everyone else for their shortcomings and don't want to deal with any adversity in life. I can't respect that.


The avg MGOTWer is

20-26 years old
white
has both parents
middle class background
is reasonably intelligent
from the south or mid west


What in the **** could possibly go so wrong in your life where you're that ****ing bitter lol, you're that mad at everyone and you were born with the world at your feet basically. I suspect at least..50% of them have an diagnosed mental illness. I bet if you put everyone in MGOTW on lexapro for 3 months their numbers would decrease by more than half.


I mean, it's a free country, if that's your thing do your thing. But there are a lot of people here who just want to get laid. Or want to be able to go on dates. Or be able to have sex with good looking women on a semi consistent basis. I believe, that person, should be able to get the advice and support that person wants, without having to wade through the rest of the bull**** to get it.

If anything just give the MGOTWsers their sub forum so they could leave the rest of us alone

I pretty much agree with what you say. Congratulations on your new baby girl.

 

[( . )( . )]

Sheeeeeit! All dem crackas droppin out? Someone gots to pay for Shaniqua and her kids

5. I'm gonna take some slack for this but I really do not give a ****, but MGOTW is basically white privilege gone array. You have a segment of guys who expect becuase they are white and everything that comes with being white, that high quality women should throw themselves at them and in 2015 the playing field is more fierce than ever and instead of bettering themselves, getting more game, getting more whatever, they would rather "go their own way".

Not to rain on your "It's be da white boogeymanz again" parade but aren't the two biggest proponents of "men going their own way" here (Tenacity and Poon King) black?

 

[( . )( . )]

Backbreaker gave himself away when he said "white privilege".

What exactly is privileged about being white?

WHAAAA ?

Wait...you mean:

*It hasn't been a "privilege" paying countless trillions in taxes to support black, brown and yellow people who hate you?

*It hasn't been a "privilege" having your children beaten up and intimidated by NAMs every day in school, and a school system that turns a blind eye to it?

*It hasn't been a "privilege" of having your mothers, sisters and daughters raped by black and brown men by the thousands, and Feminism Inc. utters not a sound?

*It hasn't been a "privilege" having your nations overrun by the refuse of the world, or the "privilege" of never being able to utter a word of complaint about it?

*It hasn't been a "privilege" to be blamed for every evil in the world?

*It hasn't been a "privilege" to be called the “cancer of human history” by a prominent Jewish intellectual who is praised for her bravery?

*It hasn't been a "privilege" being systematically discriminated against in hiring, in school admissions, and in government benefits?

*It hasn't been a "privilege" to sit at the end of the line for immigration into historically white nations, while blacks, browns and yellows step ahead of you?

*It hasn't been a "privilege" to have your culture endlessly mocked,
derided, insulted and demonized by the dominate entertainment and news media?

*It hasn't been a "privilege" making blacks, browns and yellows feel better about themselves by having your white historical heroes ignored or demonized by the educational and media establishments?

http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/01/white-privilege-conference-being-white-is-like-being-an-alcoholic/

 

[jurry]

Yah I feel your pain tîts, centuries of dominating the globe and making everyone else your slaves really gets exhausting after awhile. Now they are going to call us names and try and work at the same places as us and be poor?! Nothing less than an outrage!

 

[( . )( . )]

Yah I feel your pain tîts, centuries of dominating the globe and making everyone else your slaves really gets exhausting after awhile. Now they are going to call us names and try and work at the same places as us and be poor?! Nothing less than an outrage!

I still say for all your cries of "coz white privilege/coz patweearchy/coz NAZEEEES/coz electricity" here you still diddle yourself to sleep every night over a white guy Just sayin.

 

[jurry]

What can I say, those tîts are so soft and round cant control myself..

 

[jurry]

Please dont be ignorant enough to think that the civil war was over slavery, or that "whitey" did it out of the goodness of his heart.

I do give credit for eradicating it though, it still doesnt change the fact that it happened or that blacks still have it much worse than whites.

Of course, your myopic worldview only admits for two possibilities - either I'm in total agreement with you or im a "shîtlib feminist raging against the patriarchy".

 

[( . )( . )]

im a "shîtlib feminist raging against the patriarchy".

No offence but if it walks like a duck and all that.

You don't exactly have a track record of sounding like a normal chick. Normal chicks don't lament a non-existant "patriarchy" or those "scary 50's housewives" or the mythical "pay gap", or a campus "rape cultcha" or those "dead white boogeyman" or men not wanting fat chicks. Have I missed any?

These are all topics generally reserved for the more fugly feminist types in reality away from the interwebz.

 

[JohnnyWinner]

Not to rain on your "It's be da white boogeymanz again" parade but aren't the two biggest proponents of "men going their own way" here (Tenacity and Poon King) black?

You mean Playher Man playswithhimselfman the mental masturdebator A.K.A BurrHOE the Buffoon Queen the fairy King. :crackup:

( . )( . ) wears his white sheet and pointy hat when he types all day on SS.

 

[( . )( . )]

You mean Playher Man playswithhimselfman the mental masturdebator A.K.A BurrHOE the Buffoon Queen the fairy King. :crackup:

( . )( . ) wears his white sheet and pointy hat when he types all day on SS.

NaughtyNinja bringing the raw emotion. You can't talk anyway, I seem to recall before all the feeeelz took you over you were quite the anti-leftoid yourself. It wasn't always "manosphincter I hate you....but I can't quit you:box: " .