Some guy on MGTOW

[ArcBound]

"There is something very wrong with MGTOW. Instead of talking about 'men going their own way', we see...

-Anti-Americanism (or other rants against one's mother country)
-Declarations of Chicken Little economic/social/cultural collapse.
-Religious screeds against a particular religion or against all religions.
-Conspiracy theories.
-Evangelizing the 'Deck-Stacked-Against-Us-Have-No-Hope' view of society (which is unproductive)
-Evangelizing that one ought to live like a Mexican...
-...or another country...
-Forums become a 'Yes!' echo chamber. There is no discussion, just rants filled with yes-men.

These 'elements' are well known but ignored because of the 'good things' that do come out. We should just shrug off these things and compromise with them. Well, there is one problem.

When food and poison compromise, which is the victor? It is the poison. Eating it may be sustaining... for the short term... but your body fills up with these poison toxins. You begin to lose your ambition, your passion, and generally become filled with bitterness.

I have wondered how this is occurring. It is not uncommon. Many 'movements' somehow get filled with negative filled people with anger issues and other wackos. But not all movements. So how did MGTOW become a container for this garbage?

The answer is that MGTOW is founded on a negative itself: avoidance of woman. This has caused blanket rants against women. "But many of these rants are accurate, Pook!" So what? A farmer can rant all day about the unfairness of frost, but that will not get him anywhere. There is no cosmic justice out there. The world is what it is and its better to live in it that in a hyper-reality.

Perhaps this will hit more to the point. How many years has MGTOW existed? And what has changed since then? Really, nothing has changed at all.

But I have to wonder why no one in MGTOW can keep to the subject. Pick any random thread and you will find someone start going off the reservation of a speech against a religion or another unasked for soapbox sermon on some oddball subject. Often, many will randomly insert his "brilliant" assertion that civilization will collapse in ten years.

MGTOW is based on the belief that men have made mistakes (which should be spared making mistakes). These mistakes can include marriage, being nice guy, being worshipful to women, and so on. All these mistakes have a common theme: egotism. When the man got married, he was so sure he was doing the right thing and the naysayers were all jealous villains.

Since so many join MGTOW based on being wrong in the past, why does everyone act like they are right all the time? It is amazing! The egotism never died. It just shifted into new forms. This would explain why someone can't keep to the subject of MGTOW and instead must start bashing a religion, bashing a country, or bashing something else. One can be right on something and be wrong on other things. But MGTOW do not see that. They act like they have suddenly become right on everything (so they become vocal on it).

If we were wrong in the past, and it damaged our lives (such as getting married to a fiend), why do we strut around as if we have such 'wisdom'? If we were so wrong once, we could be wrong again. Yet, this reservation is nowhere to be found in MGTOW. Every man has his own pet theories. The dogs slip their leash and begin to ravage the good content.

To be honest, I don't see many happy MGTOW. There are no celebrations about being 'free' but complaining about... something. Trust me; celebrations and good cheer are far more effective and contagious than "being right all the time".

In normal society, people do not like being around someone 'right all the time'. Even if they are right, they are downright annoying. People prefer light-hearted, good cheered fun. When I think of MGTOW, 'good cheer' is the last to come to mind. MGTOW isn't about being alive as it is about escaping pain.

For as much as we mock feminists for being negative, for getting with women to talk bad about men, it is becoming more and more clear that MGTOW is becoming more like the mirror image. Behavior by behavior, a MGTOW male acts very similar to a feminist in lifestyle and habit. You begin to live alone, have meetings with guys to 'talk bad about women' (to ease existential pains), and write bad essays.

I think it is becoming clear that marriage and children is a natural longing in not just women but men as well. Nature did not intend gender avoidance. I believe generally everyone is repelled by the negative pessimistic tone found on MGTOW. However, people return consistently for a dose of the poison to ease the existential pain (caused by the natural longing of wife and children which is found in every culture and time). Once convinced by the rantings that women are more painful than pleasurable, the male goes off semi-satisfied. But, alas, the natural longing creeps up again causing the male to return."

-Pook

 

[TarantulaHawk]

"There is something very wrong with MGTOW. Instead of talking about 'men going their own way', we see...

-Anti-Americanism (or other rants against one's mother country)
-Declarations of Chicken Little economic/social/cultural collapse.
-Religious screeds against a particular religion or against all religions.
-Conspiracy theories.
-Evangelizing the 'Deck-Stacked-Against-Us-Have-No-Hope' view of society (which is unproductive)
-Evangelizing that one ought to live like a Mexican...
-...or another country...
-Forums become a 'Yes!' echo chamber. There is no discussion, just rants filled with yes-men.

These 'elements' are well known but ignored because of the 'good things' that do come out. We should just shrug off these things and compromise with them. Well, there is one problem.

When food and poison compromise, which is the victor? It is the poison. Eating it may be sustaining... for the short term... but your body fills up with these poison toxins. You begin to lose your ambition, your passion, and generally become filled with bitterness.

I have wondered how this is occurring. It is not uncommon. Many 'movements' somehow get filled with negative filled people with anger issues and other wackos. But not all movements. So how did MGTOW become a container for this garbage?

The answer is that MGTOW is founded on a negative itself: avoidance of woman. This has caused blanket rants against women. "But many of these rants are accurate, Pook!" So what? A farmer can rant all day about the unfairness of frost, but that will not get him anywhere. There is no cosmic justice out there. The world is what it is and its better to live in it that in a hyper-reality.

Perhaps this will hit more to the point. How many years has MGTOW existed? And what has changed since then? Really, nothing has changed at all.

But I have to wonder why no one in MGTOW can keep to the subject. Pick any random thread and you will find someone start going off the reservation of a speech against a religion or another unasked for soapbox sermon on some oddball subject. Often, many will randomly insert his "brilliant" assertion that civilization will collapse in ten years.

MGTOW is based on the belief that men have made mistakes (which should be spared making mistakes). These mistakes can include marriage, being nice guy, being worshipful to women, and so on. All these mistakes have a common theme: egotism. When the man got married, he was so sure he was doing the right thing and the naysayers were all jealous villains.

Since so many join MGTOW based on being wrong in the past, why does everyone act like they are right all the time? It is amazing! The egotism never died. It just shifted into new forms. This would explain why someone can't keep to the subject of MGTOW and instead must start bashing a religion, bashing a country, or bashing something else. One can be right on something and be wrong on other things. But MGTOW do not see that. They act like they have suddenly become right on everything (so they become vocal on it).

If we were wrong in the past, and it damaged our lives (such as getting married to a fiend), why do we strut around as if we have such 'wisdom'? If we were so wrong once, we could be wrong again. Yet, this reservation is nowhere to be found in MGTOW. Every man has his own pet theories. The dogs slip their leash and begin to ravage the good content.

To be honest, I don't see many happy MGTOW. There are no celebrations about being 'free' but complaining about... something. Trust me; celebrations and good cheer are far more effective and contagious than "being right all the time".

In normal society, people do not like being around someone 'right all the time'. Even if they are right, they are downright annoying. People prefer light-hearted, good cheered fun. When I think of MGTOW, 'good cheer' is the last to come to mind. MGTOW isn't about being alive as it is about escaping pain.

For as much as we mock feminists for being negative, for getting with women to talk bad about men, it is becoming more and more clear that MGTOW is becoming more like the mirror image. Behavior by behavior, a MGTOW male acts very similar to a feminist in lifestyle and habit. You begin to live alone, have meetings with guys to 'talk bad about women' (to ease existential pains), and write bad essays.

I think it is becoming clear that marriage and children is a natural longing in not just women but men as well. Nature did not intend gender avoidance. I believe generally everyone is repelled by the negative pessimistic tone found on MGTOW. However, people return consistently for a dose of the poison to ease the existential pain (caused by the natural longing of wife and children which is found in every culture and time). Once convinced by the rantings that women are more painful than pleasurable, the male goes off semi-satisfied. But, alas, the natural longing creeps up again causing the male to return."

-Pook

^^^Exactly. MGTOW is nothing more than a disease minded cult of misfits. Read comments on any video about it any subject they bring up let alone listen to any video and you'll hear an echo chamber of toxic negativity. Obvious to any person who's grounded in common sense.

 

[( . )( . )]

Personally if men want to drop out, fvck slvts/hookers, play vidya games and keep their own cash I say good, more power to them. Quicker the system collapses, quicker I can dust off the armory and go "zombie" hunting. I lean more toward the Hawaiian libertarians views on MGTOW's

I think by and large, Pook is correct in this assessment of the MGTOW community. And, as I was already married, long before I ever even thought much about feminism, the Matriarchal subversion of society, divorce and all of the other topics for which we are all familiar with, it's not like I could embrace MGTOW as a personal philosophy in dealing with the current state of affairs.

But I understand it. I've seen the system wreak havoc and destroy the lives of men, women and children in my own personal family members, friends and acquaintances. It is because of witnessing these experiences first hand that I understand the MGTOW mentality, for it is a logical reaction to the injustices dealt out by our current system.

This is why I link to MGTOW supportive blogs. I may not believe in MGTOW (still married...ten year anniversary coming up this month), but the MGTOW blogosphere and messageboards do serve a valuable function in the MRA movement - they provide a cautionary tale to previously ignorant men about the reality of life in the Matriarchal-dominated Western Civilization.

http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com.au/2008_06_01_archive.html


Like I told our obsessed freak NN awhile back. With all the sh!t currently going on in the West doesn't discussing MGTOW boogeymen seem kind of gay? The system was well and truly pozzed before they even arrived on the scene. They're by and large just an answer to that societal pozzing.

 

[TarantulaHawk]

Personally if men want to drop out, fvck slvts/hookers, play vidya games and keep their own cash I say good, more power to them. Quicker the system collapses, quicker I can dust off the armory and go "zombie" hunting. I lean more toward the Hawaiian libertarians views on MGTOW's



http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com.au/2008_06_01_archive.html


Like I told our obsessed freak NN awhile back. With all the sh!t currently going on in the West doesn't discussing MGTOW boogeymen seem kind of gay? The system was well and truly pozzed before they even arrived on the scene.

Calling out nonsense like I see it. T1ts you're the feminist obsessed Bruce De-Jennerate of SS ya transgendered whack-a-doo. You talk about fat bull dykes so much you most likely are one.

 

[ArcBound]

Personally if men want to drop out, fvck slvts/hookers and keep their own cash I say good, more power to them. Quicker the system collapses, quicker I can dust off the armory and go "zombie" hunting. I lean more toward the Hawaiian libertarians views on MGTOW's



http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com.au/2008_06_01_archive.html


Like I told our obsessed freak NN awhile back. With all the sh!t currently going on in the West doesn't discussing MGTOW boogeymen seem kind of gay?

Well I'm not sure if you are calling me obsessed or not but this is my first post on the topic and I invoked someone who used betters words than I could have. I am sorry if I have come across more abrasive then I needed to be.

Pook and Hawaiinlibertarian are in agreement. In the post I linked Pook also mentioned that MGTOWs get some things right, which isn't the issue I am talking about.

The issue is what Pook is talking about in his poison analogy. Yes the experiences of these men, husbands, fathers, divorces etc. are needed but at what point are we simply being gluttons for pain and beating a dead horse?

Our old friend Rollo Tomassi, curator of Rational Male, like Hawaiian Libertarian and Pook also understand why logically men turn to MGTOW, but he like them also does not embrace it and is in fact married.

Vox Day of Alpha Game Plan and Vox Day also understands why men are dropping out of society, yet he is married lovingly and with children.

Dalrock understands why Christian men (for he is of the Christian manosphere) are dropping out of church society, and family, yet he bills himself as a happily married father on his blog title.

Heartiste very much like Pook also sees men dropping out, yet both believe love is a good and healthy thing to have in a man's life.

We constantly talk about the Redpill, and I will argue sure, the Redpill is good.

It is like Vitamin D, in a vitamin D deficient culture (which we also are!). Helps us get back to normal and fixes normal functions. Yet also, if we megadose on Vitamin D, we poison ourselves because it is fat soluble.

Pook is not suggesting we throw out all usefulness of this section of the manosphere, or that they were wrong, but are we continually coming back to this one point, this one complaint about the reality of the world, that it is keeping us from being the best we can? If we keep taking it, it is poison and will infect us in our minds and souls.

 

[( . )( . )]

Calling out nonsense like I see it.

:crackup:

You don't though. You just go crazy over MRA's and MGTOW's, that's all you've literally ever done on here for years on all your accounts until you wig out and get banned again.

Well I'm not sure if you are calling me obsessed

No NN/BegayDJ here. This "MGTOW's are the devil" thing has been his? crusade for years.

 

[TarantulaHawk]

:crackup:

You don't though. You just go crazy over MRA's and MGTOW's, that's all you've literally ever done on here for years.



No NN/BegayDJ here. This MGTOW's thing has been his crusade for years.

I've heard about MGTOW a little more than a year ago you deluded clown shoe. "Crusade" lmfao! While you rant like a loon about everything under the sun.

Men who know many chicks date them etc. and aren't entitled control freaks succeed regardless of your feminist boogeyman nightmares. They're not buying the MGTOW and Manuresphere cult nonsense. Anything and everything they touch they claim to be "helping" with is toxic negative mental poisoning. Truths get turned into problem "solving" the same way the hard core feminists "solve" problems only the fems are actually doing things besides just talking about them on the net.

 

[( . )( . )]

Men who know many chicks date them etc. and aren't entitled control freaks succeed regardless of your feminist boogeyman nightmares. They're not buying the MGTOW and Manuresphere cult nonsense. Anything and everything they touch they claim to be "helping" with is toxic negative mental poisoning. Truths get turned into problem "solving" the same way the hard core feminists "solve" problems only the fems are actually doing things besides just talking about them on the net.

lol drama queen. The raw emotion and feeeelz you have over men keeping their own money and playing vidya games is so weird :crackup:

You're slipping back to sounding like an angry fat chick worried her welfare is gonna run out if men stop producing again. The strange persona you adopt just before you wig out and get banned funny enough I've also noticed.

Que "Manosphincter" rant # 634

 

[ArcBound]

No NN/BegayDJ here. This "MGTOW's are the devil" thing has been his? crusade for years.

Ahh I see. Well then ignore TarantulaHawk for a sec, speak with me, and you know that you and I are in agreement in many many respects. What do you think of what Pook said?

Specifically about "This has caused blanket rants against women. "But many of these rants are accurate, Pook!" So what? A farmer can rant all day about the unfairness of frost, but that will not get him anywhere. There is no cosmic justice out there. The world is what it is and its better to live in it that in a hyper-reality."

It seems to me Pook is pointing out that a lot of MGTOW complain alone, and these complaints don't bring him anywhere. The farmer still has to eat, so he still has to farm no matter how much he complains about the frost.

He also ended his post which Hawaiian quoted as agreeing

"However, people return consistently for a dose of the poison to ease the existential pain (caused by the natural longing of wife and children which is found in every culture and time). Once convinced by the rantings that women are more painful than pleasurable, the male goes off semi-satisfied. But, alas, the natural longing creeps up again causing the male to return."

The natural longing I believe Pook is talking about is how all men want women on some level. Just like the farmer may well complain and rant about the frost, but he still desires the food and on some base levels needs it. Men whether by evolution or by God have working d!cks (well not all men on this forum as you are fond of pointing out !) and DNA which pushes us to propagate. We can rant about women and complain about them like the unfair frost, but it is what it is, and just like the farmer still must farm, we still must "sarge".

 

[BrainDamage92]

Well its like, the only truely Alpha MGTOW badass unbeatable stone cold ultimate above everyone male is the one who just gave up sex as a whole.

The rest of us are just talking so we can feel better about females having the upper hand in this game.

MGTOW's good point is to not be so naive if you plan to get married, couse its not just feelings and all... theres a legal side and lowlifes abuse this. The rest of it is BS. I think if you marry a woman who is in the same material situation as you are, or at least not much richer\poorer it will work. I think its best if you delay this as much as possible though.

 

[ArcBound]

TarantulaHawk while I don't agree with MGTOW, I think going as far as calling them a cult and calling the Manosphere and Manuresphere isn't going to help win anyone over to the points you are trying to make.

Pook in the post I quoted criticized the MGTOW for always appearing to be, and always claiming to be right in all that they say. If you argue from only emotion, you fall under that same criticism. Entering the thread by saying MGTOW are "disease minded cult of misfits." and " Obvious to any person who's grounded in common sense." not only is a bad argument (if it was common sense, it would be common and there would be few instead of many MGTOW) but also detracts from any legitimate points you might make in the future.

 

[TarantulaHawk]

lol drama queen. The raw emotion and feeeelz you have over men keeping their own money and playing vidya games :crackup:

You're slipping back to sounding like an angry fat chick worried her welfare is gonna run out if men stop producing again. The strange persona you adopt just before you wig out and get banned funny enough I've also noticed.

^^^Sez the "dude" who has chesticles and whines about bull dykes. T1ts wigs out over them while wearing a females wig because heshe's the mirror image of a feminist.

MGTOW can keep their money and play their video gaymez. Funny enough they all claim to have very little or are "saving up" for God knows how long before they "leave" to go to some foreign Shangri-la. They worry about the same MGTOW circle jerk more than they do their video gaymez. If MGTOW was such a great thing why are they always unhappy about it? They should instead of complaining just enjoy the fact they aren't being "oppressed" anymore by being MGTOW. They're only deluding themselves.

 

[ArcBound]

Well its like, the only truely Alpha MGTOW badass unbeatable stone cold ultimate above everyone male is the one who just gave up sex as a whole.

The rest of us are just talking so we can feel better about females having the upper hand in this game.

MGTOW's good point is to not be so naive if you plan to get married, couse its not just feelings and all... theres a legal side and lowlifes abuse this. The rest of it is BS. I think if you marry a woman who is in the same material situation as you are, or at least not much richer\poorer it will work. I think its best if you delay this as much as possible though.

I think there is a lot of honesty here

 

[TarantulaHawk]

TarantulaHawk while I don't agree with MGTOW, I think going as far as calling them a cult and calling the Manosphere and Manuresphere isn't going to help win anyone over to the points you are trying to make.

Pook in the post I quoted criticized the MGTOW for always appearing to be, and always claiming to be right in all that they say. If you argue from only emotion, you fall under that same criticism.

I always thought they seemed like a cult. I read rocking Mr E thread about them and agreed. They act like a cult and spread their ideology like a cult so therefore they are one. I didn't write the article I had posted. Just posted and agreed with it.

I'm allowed my opinion just like everyone else pro or against anything. Some though love to act as if any opinion not 100% in line with theirs needs to be "shut down" exactly like the feminists do.

Though I see your point.

 

[( . )( . )]

MGTOW can keep their money and play their video gaymez. Funny enough they all claim to have very little or are "saving up" for God knows how long before they "leave" to go to some foreign Shangri-la.

You and that faggy saying. I forgot you also used to wig out over American men travelling overseas for puzzy. :crackup:

I still say the feeelz this subject never fails to bring out of you is rather odd for a 49? year old "man" to be having.

"Manosphincter, manosphincter, manosphincter :box:"

 

[Atom Smasher]

Banned ninja and reopened thread.

Let's keep the personal attacks out of it or I close it for good.

 

[Tenacity]

You can call MGTOW a cult, a group of bitter men, a group of men that can't get laid, or (insert whatever shaming tactic here), but the fact of the matter is that MGTOW is an EFFECT not a CAUSE.

MGTOW is a response to the soul-destroying, financially destroying market of women that we are dealing with in 2015. It really is irrelevant on if particular bloggers in the Manosphere that comment on MGTOW ended up getting married regardless, the problems in our culture are still real and men are still being financially destroyed on a daily basis. All you have to do is sit in on a Family Court case. All you have to do is study the Child Support Laws, Alimony Laws, Divorce Laws, Domestic Violence Laws, Sexual Harassment Laws, etc., to understand that the culture is totally bias against men. All you have to do is study the social dynamics we live in today to see that the culture is bias against men.

These are facts, and MGTOW is just a group of guys deciding to take pre-cautions in protecting themselves. Continue any type of shaming tactic that you want, the FACTS are that this market of women is very toxic.

On top of this, the reason a lot of MGTOW also comment on the status of the US from a "chicken little" standpoint is that the foundation of the US is crumbling....that's another FACT. The economy is changing to a Specialized Skill Economy, which means the divide between the HAVES and HAVE NOTS will get wider, and the Haves will be those who are working within the industries that are founded on STEM fields. While this is going on, the country is becoming more liberal and welfare is growing by the day.

The foundation of the US is changing and the HAVES will be in high demand Globally, while everybody else will be struggling on the merry go round of random job here, random job there, and never truly getting anywhere. The HAVES will also be the ones controlling the "Robot" while the HAVE NOTS will be those who are replaced by the "Robot".

MGTOW men are logical and rational, they usually spend their time critically thinking out various situations. It's very easy to just say, "It's not that serious, women aren't that bad, just think positive." It's actually much harder to take the Red Pill and actually look at a situation for what it is, not for what we (positively) wish it was. It's why I hate the Law of Attraction myth, this notion that you can just speak positive words and reality would change. The market is the way it is, either you adapt and adjust, or you will be swallowed by it.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

I agree with what Tenacity wrote. Times are and have been changing, and while I have watched a few MGTOW videos, I agree with things they say, but I don't agree with everything. Every movement or philosophy has bitter people and extremists in it. Dark Knight has some good videos....I think some of you guys are getting caught up in the youtube comments. And as for religion....I am atheist so if MGTOWs want to attack in i'll gladly chime in

 

[jurry]

You can call MGTOW a cult, a group of bitter men, a group of men that can't get laid, or (insert whatever shaming tactic here), but the fact of the matter is that MGTOW is an EFFECT not a CAUSE.

A marginal (at best) effect to a marginal cause, good Steinbeck reference though.

MGTOW is a response to the soul-destroying, financially destroying market of women that we are dealing with in 2015. And right out of the gate with the preposterous, sweeping generalizations so common to MGTOW It really is irrelevant on if particular bloggers in the Manosphere that comment on MGTOW ended up getting married regardless, the problems in our culture are still real and men are still being financially destroyed on a daily basis. All you have to do is sit in on a Family Court case. All you have to do is study the Child Support Laws, Alimony Laws, Divorce Laws, Domestic Violence Laws, Sexual Harassment Laws, etc., to understand that the culture is totally bias against men. Please be specific when making claims about this. Divorce, alimony, child support is 50/50 from what I understand. If you make way more money than your wife, yes you are going to get taken to the cleaners if you divorce, that is holding up your end of the deal for someone who probably didn't hold a job while raising YOUR children. Marry someone with similar income or sign a prenup if you don't trust a b1tch. For all the crying about feminism and rise of women, you would think increased income equality between gender would be a positive for MGTOW, apparently not All you have to do is study the social dynamics we live in today to see that the culture is bias against men.How many women in Congress? How many women in the richest 100? How many women CEO's? What you mean to say is that in particular scenarios of our society there are sometimes instances that are unfair to men.

These are facts, and MGTOW is just a group of guys deciding to take pre-cautions in protecting themselves. Continue any type of shaming tactic that you want, the FACTS are that this market of women is very toxic. No, that's your personal opinion, which does not hold up to my or anyone I know's reality.

On top of this, the reason a lot of MGTOW also comment on the status of the US from a "chicken little" standpoint is that the foundation of the US is crumbling....that's another FACT. Again, your opinion. The economy is changing to a Specialized Skill Economy, which means the divide between the HAVES and HAVE NOTS will get wider, and the Haves will be those who are working within the industries that are founded on STEM fields.We have had increasing income inequality for 30+ years, it has nothing to do with specialized skills or STEM fields and everything to do with a rapacious oligarchy that owns our country and writes all the laws to benefit the few at the expense of the many. While this is going on, the country is becoming more liberal and welfare is growing by the day. More liberal? In what sense? Welfare is going up (actually probably going down now) because our economy is still in the toilet after the worst financial crisis in several generations. Not rocket science.

The foundation of the US is changing and the HAVES will be in high demand Globally, while everybody else will be struggling on the merry go round of random job here, random job there, and never truly getting anywhere. I agree, though thats a result of a broken political system, not any absolute economic reality. The HAVES will also be the ones controlling the "Robot" while the HAVE NOTS will be those who are replaced by the "Robot".

MGTOW men are logical and rational, they usually spend their time critically thinking out various situations Mostly driven by emotion and hatred in my experience.. It's very easy to just say, "It's not that serious, women aren't that bad, just think positive." It's actually much harder to take the Red Pill and actually look at a situation for what it is, not for what we (positively) wish it was. It's why I hate the Law of Attraction myth, this notion that you can just speak positive words and reality would change. The market is the way it is, either you adapt and adjust, or you will be swallowed by it.

This post is a whirlwind tirade of non-sequitur socioeconomic claims that have no support or coherence to them. Trust me I am a deeply skeptical person and cannot stand the "just think positively and it will work out" mentality. I'm a realist, and the reality that I see everyday is a majority of men and women working it out and enjoying relationships with each other, both with me personally and people I know and people I meet.

Are there terrible women out there who will ruin men and take all their money? Of course. There are terrible people of any gender and race or class that do all sorts of things. Does this mean it is some sort of plague taking over our nation? Not at all. That is called LIFE.

Just because your personal experience with women has been negative and there are some others with the same experience does not make it fact and reality for most people. This is exactly what Pook is talking about in the post, the inability for MGTOW to consider being wrong or being open to suggestion. They believe they are absolutely, infallibly correct and will instantly attack anyone who disagrees with them (good indicator of the level of confidence in their own claims), and to take that kind of position is extremely weak and childish.

Its one thing to make men aware of the seriousness of marriage, the possible financial consequences of divorce, child support, etc. Its quite another to continuously rage on internet forums about how evil women are and how broken society is when this just clearly isnt the case.

 

[Tenacity]

jurry,

Good response and hopefully this can spark a pretty good debate/discussion.

And right out of the gate with the preposterous, sweeping generalizations so common to MGTOW.......Please be specific when making claims about this. Divorce, alimony, child support is 50/50 from what I understand. If you make way more money than your wife, yes you are going to get taken to the cleaners if you divorce, that is holding up your end of the deal for someone who probably didn't hold a job while raising YOUR children. Marry someone with similar income or sign a prenup if you don't trust a b1tch. For all the crying about feminism and rise of women, you would think increased income equality between gender would be a positive for MGTOW, apparently not

Well, for one, there's no pre-nup you can sign to get out of the out of control child support system. Child support should be based on the needs/wants of the child, not based on a FIXED portion of the income that the Father makes which turns the child more into an "expense". So a Father makes $1 million a year and has to pay his child $200,000? That makes no sense.

Two, a pre-nup is not insurance, a pre-nup is a pre-arranged division of assets at the beginning of the marriage to apply at the end of the marriage, assuming that certain conditions are still present. If at the end of the marriage, the Judge deems the pre-nup to be excessive based on the conditions of the woman at the time, the pre-nup could be thrown out. For example, if a woman was working before but stopped working to become a house wife, she would argue that her marketplace skills have been destroyed in the process of the marriage and for the pre-nup to be thrown out and alimony to result. If she has a good Attorney, they usually will convince the Judget to do this.

Three, the only time a Man comes out ahead with this system is usually if his woman is ahead of him....WAY ahead of him. That means technically, if the woman is making $50,000 - $100,000 a year and the guy makes about $10,000 - $20,000 a year. That's really the only way the guy comes out ahead in this situation, even though (of course) he will still be made to pay something but it wouldn't be anywhere close to a financial ruin.

Four, I'm not sure why you believe there's income inequality between men and women today. I understand the general stats that you pull up, but those stats are usually based on the fact that women work lesser hours and usually do less "hard work" in terms of physical activity and hard sciences. With an economy built on STEM sciences, if women are majoring mainly in Liberal Arts which might qualify them for Office Administration jobs, of course they are going to have a hard time becoming "CEO" or making more than the male that's a CPA.

Are there terrible women out there who will ruin men and take all their money? Of course. There are terrible people of any gender and race or class that do all sorts of things. Does this mean it is some sort of plague taking over our nation? Not at all. That is called LIFE.

I love this point of view. It's basically when a group of people are doing horrible things to another group, and refuse to adapt or change, they just sum it up to being "LIFE" and telling the other group to "Man up and Get over it."

Sir, I'm a Black man, if black people 50-60 years ago just would have "manned up and accepted" Jim Crow, my black a.ss would NOT be on this forum speaking to you right now lol.

Some men won't and don't subscribe to this new found "LIFE" that you reference sir. Some men are opting out of this new found "LIFE", you know, this life where you could marry a chick and 5 years later she divorces you and financially ruins you. You know, this life where you could create a kid with a chick and she financially ruins you through excessive child support and legal fees. This "LIFE" you reference that we need to just man up and accept...is not what we signed up for and it's not what we choose to participate in.

That's why I chose not to get married, have kids or live with a woman ever.

Just because your personal experience with women has been negative and there are some others with the same experience does not make it fact and reality for most people. This is exactly what Pook is talking about in the post, the inability for MGTOW to consider being wrong or being open to suggestion. They believe they are absolutely, infallibly correct and will instantly attack anyone who disagrees with them (good indicator of the level of confidence in their own claims), and to take that kind of position is extremely weak and childish.

I don't believe I attacked anybody, I'm stating the facts of the man/woman relations in 2015. Child Support Laws, Alimony Laws, Divorce Laws, Domestic Violence Laws, Sexual Harassment Laws, the bullshyt women put men through during dating, the bullshyt women put men through during relationships, I can go on and on. These aren't made up imaginations in my head, these are REAL. And your only response to these hard realities is to, "Man up and get over it, it's called LIFE." Well, it might be someone else's LIFE sir, but it's damn sure not going to be MINE.