So people are b*tching about how much money Mitt Romney makes

[Vice]

I can't believe how many people are whining about how much money Mitt Romney makes and how he paid only less than 15% in taxes, compared to our own president, who paid 25%.

This shows the general population’s lack of understanding of basic tax law and differences in types of income that lead to what

Obama makes an income of $400,000 per year for being president. Since this is EARNED INCOME, that puts him in the highest tax bracket, the 35% bracket. Obviously he has a great accountant if he's only paying 25%.

In contrast, Romney more than likely has long term investments, businesses, and real estate that account for his 15% tax bracket, and he is also considered "unemployed", which means that HE DOES NOT MAKE EARNED INCOME, which means that his millions of dollars are NOT taxed at 35%. They are taxed at whatever rate the IRS sets, which tends to be lower as an incentive to invest.

So, people are claiming that he’s “lazy” and “greedy”. This is ridiculous. This older man has probably spent a substantial portion of his life learning how to invest his money, manage business, and dealing with people. Sure, he may have been blessed to have been born into a family that was already well off. That’s his luck of the draw. It’s pretty obvious that he didn’t squander away his opportunities and instead made the best of them.

But those who complain about him being rich and paying less in taxes tend to have little to no idea of what it takes to become wealthy in this country, along with all of the hard work and sacrifice it takes to do so. Instead of watching TV like some mindless drone after work, people will study or build their business on the side, part-time. Not everyone wants to do that. Not everyone wants to risk their hard earned money on something that might not work out. Yet they feel the need to whine about those who become successful through their own merit. F*cking leeches.

 

[azanon]

What I think is ridiculous is that you are way too young to be this wise. Good Job, and you are right on. Are you going into finance?

 

[backseatjuan]

Removed since it doesn't fit into the discussion and it's getting interesting. I have PMed the user regarding his concerns in this post.

- Alle_Gory

 

[Bible_Belt]

Romney socialized the Massachusetts health care system during his time as governor, including an individual mandate that makes every person purchase health insurance. Then, when Obama introduced the same plan at a national level, Romney called it "an unconscionable abuse of power."

 

[azanon]

Romney socialized the Massachusetts health care system during his time as governor, including an individual mandate that makes every person purchase health insurance. Then, when Obama introduced the same plan at a national level, Romney called it "an unconscionable abuse of power."

What does this have to do with Romney's income, or his tax rate? I'm sure it's just me and I'm missing something, so let me just get another cup of coffee.

 

[Vice]

What I think is ridiculous is that you are way too young to be this wise. Good Job, and you are right on. Are you going into finance?

I'm already in finance by virtue of my own studies and business ventures in my free time after work, but in a year or two I'll be going to college for real estate finance and acquisition.

Now, I'm neither FOR or AGAINST Romney or any other political candidate at this time. It just pissess me off when the media exploits the ignorance of they layman and incinuates that he is cheating on his taxes and painting him to be "greedy", when in fact he is in accordance with the law.

It's so easy for the guy who is afraid to takes risks to critisize those who do, in both picking up women and in business. Those are the sad, sad souls who do not know the thrill of victory OR defeat (to paraphrase a really awesome quote).

 

[Mike32ct]

Poor people don't run for president. They are all well off. That part makes no difference to me.

 

[Upside]

I can really give two craps about what tax bracket he is in. I have a bigger beef with him.

How can you go from "I'm not going to release my tax reports" to "I'll release my tax reports" in the span of one freaking month. Just imagine how he'll negotiate with senators and representatives...let alone foreign leaders.

"I'll never give you our super secret nuclear secrets."

One month later...

"Here. I insist you take a look at our super secret nuclear secrets."

 

[synergy1]

the point isnt about what tax bracket he's in ( by the way well done on finding out that cap gains is less than earned income), but rather the question of why should an earned income be subject to a higher amount than simply pushing money around, which is all this guy did. Sure, Bain capital did really well and is currently managing over 6 B, but the beef is that he basically purchased / restructured ( read fired people) in order to turn a company for a profit.

 

[horaholic]

'Earned income' was never meant to be taxed in the first place. It technically isn't even income at all. What average people do is TRADE either their product or service for money. That is a balanced and EQUAL TRADE. By definition, it is not 'income,' therefore, never supposed be taxed at all. Our forefathers defined income as a profit from investments and so forth, not our basic labor. If income tax were collected from where it was constitutionally intended to, there would be no deficit, and noone would get taxes taken out of their paychecks. The reason we are forced to comply with the charade of income tax is due to a constitutional amendment that was never legally ratified.

Other than than that. Romney obviously uses the same bullshyt loopholes that most greedy, rich, agents of Satan use to get out of paying their taxes and thus putting the countries financial burden on the backs of the honest little guys. Why can't I claim to be 'unemployed?' Why can't use my labor and time as an 'investment,' and consider my paycheck a 'capital gain?' I'll tell you why. Because the rich wouldn't like that very much. Fvck all bankers.

 

[Vice]

Other than than that. Romney obviously uses the same bullshyt loopholes that most greedy, rich, agents of Satan use to get out of paying their taxes and thus putting the countries financial burden on the backs of the honest little guys. Why can't I claim to be 'unemployed?' Why can't use my labor and time as an 'investment,' and consider my paycheck a 'capital gain?' I'll tell you why. Because the rich wouldn't like that very much. Fvck all bankers.

Your post was OK until this part came up... Tin foil hat stuff right here.

I don't understand why people insist on calling people who use the completely legal tax codes evil and/or greedy. Those tax benefits can be used by anyone, not just the rich. A "poor" person who makes an investment of the caliber of a "rich" person will pay EXACTLY THE SAME in taxes.

Example: an owner of multi-unit apartment buildings will pay the EXACT same percentage in taxes on his millions of dollars of income as the newly wed couple that buys a duplex and rents out the other side for a few thousand per year. Plus there's TONS of nice tax writeoffs that come with real estate ownership.

Another example: If you buy and sell 100 shares of a stock at the same time a rich guy sells one million shares, you'll both be taxed at the same exact rate.

I just sense that people want to bring down rich people because they don't want to put in the hard work to educated and learn how to become rich in the most opportunistic country in the world. There's no f*cking excuse NOT to become wealthy in the USA if you give it a serious go.

 

[Inquisitus]

Your post was OK until this part came up... Tin foil hat stuff right here.

I don't understand why people insist on calling people who use the completely legal tax codes evil and/or greedy. Those tax benefits can be used by anyone, not just the rich. A "poor" person who makes an investment of the caliber of a "rich" person will pay EXACTLY THE SAME in taxes.

Example: an owner of multi-unit apartment buildings will pay the EXACT same percentage in taxes on his millions of dollars of income as the newly wed couple that buys a duplex and rents out the other side for a few thousand per year. Plus there's TONS of nice tax writeoffs that come with real estate ownership.

Another example: If you buy and sell 100 shares of a stock at the same time a rich guy sells one million shares, you'll both be taxed at the same exact rate.

I just sense that people want to bring down rich people because they don't want to put in the hard work to educated and learn how to become rich in the most opportunistic country in the world. There's no f*cking excuse NOT to become wealthy in the USA if you give it a serious go.

Maybe people are questioning why the tax code is the way it is and whether it works the way it was meant to work.

I'm a little over 60K in Canada and taxed around 16%. It's pretty crazy to me that Romney got taxed 15% on $42 million (over two years). Also crazy that his tax return is 203 pages long!

 

[Bible_Belt]

Romney (or any other "rich" person) contributed a HELL of a lot more to the well-being of this country than the vast majority of people.


Obviously the point of America is to make rich people richer. If anyone doesn't like it, then they must be a commie liberal welfare queen.

We should change the voting rules so that a millionaire gets a million votes. Maybe some sort of poll tax would be a good idea as well to keep out the riffraff. Until then, the unwashed heathen masses will always drag down the men of true value.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

And the reason that capital gains and dividends are taxed low, is because that money was already taxed on the corporations' income. What we need is a low, flat tax and the abolishment of capital gains, dividends, and corporate taxes. It makes absolutely no sense to make corporations pay taxes, because who really pays those taxes? You do--both as a customer and as a shareholder (even if all you have is a 401K). Instead we have the highest tax rates in the world, a national fascist bank that destroys the value of our money, and a bloated federal government that treats businessmen like criminals. I'm so sick of it, I'm so gd sick of seeing "greedy businesses" and "evil rich people" attacked as the source of our nations problems; it is the government ALL THE WAY. If you have not learned how to differentiate between ambition and greed, you have everything you deserve. And probably too much of it.

As a Libertarian I emphatically support Ron Paul, but I like Mitt Romney too. He started at the bottom of a company and worked his way up, he made himself into an excellent investor and manager. One of his successes at Bain was a company called Steel Dynamics; I toured their mini mill facility at Fort Wayne last summer, it was staggeringly awesome. If you live close to a steel mill, you should try to tour it.

But what we have to get past is this frankly Marxist idea that one man succeeds at the cost of destruction to another. Wealth does not exist in nature, to be "distributed" indiscriminately; like all human values, wealth must be produced. And in capitalism, the man who produces a fortune for himself actually creates a far greater value, relatively speaking, for each man who works in his factory. And the same is true of mechanization in industry; if you work in a modern factory, the mechanization available to you makes each hour of your labor infinitely more productive (and safe) than ten men doing the same job. Industrial progress sets your hands free and thus lifts your mind to higher and greater productive activities.

It has to start in the schools. When I was playing basketball at the gym tonight, I got to thinking about what they should really be teaching kids in junior high. Teach them how capitalism really works, teach them about dividend investing, teach them that they are going to be responsible for their own lives.

 

[BigJimbo]

Seriously, anyone who says they like Ron Paul AND Romney obviously doesn't get it. Those two have NOTHING in common.

Romney's wealth is because of his family. He isn't self made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKxW2MXTocQ
Mexican Romneys. Yeah, Romney is a Mexican.

 

[backbreaker]

IMHO people don't give a **** that he is rich. we've had rich presidents before. Hell FDR was basically an aristocrat.


It's HOW he got rich that gets under peoples skin.

 

[Alle_Gory]

I can really give two craps about what tax bracket he is in. I have a bigger beef with him.

How can you go from "I'm not going to release my tax reports" to "I'll release my tax reports" in the span of one freaking month. Just imagine how he'll negotiate with senators and representatives...let alone foreign leaders.

"I'll never give you our super secret nuclear secrets."

One month later...

"Here. I insist you take a look at our super secret nuclear secrets."

Fantastic. Another President with no spine.

 

[Inquisitus]

And the reason that capital gains and dividends are taxed low, is because that money was already taxed on the corporations' income. What we need is a low, flat tax and the abolishment of capital gains, dividends, and corporate taxes. It makes absolutely no sense to make corporations pay taxes, because who really pays those taxes? You do--both as a customer and as a shareholder (even if all you have is a 401K). Instead we have the highest tax rates in the world, a national fascist bank that destroys the value of our money, and a bloated federal government that treats businessmen like criminals. I'm so sick of it, I'm so gd sick of seeing "greedy businesses" and "evil rich people" attacked as the source of our nations problems; it is the government ALL THE WAY. If you have not learned how to differentiate between ambition and greed, you have everything you deserve. And probably too much of it.

As a Libertarian I emphatically support Ron Paul, but I like Mitt Romney too. He started at the bottom of a company and worked his way up, he made himself into an excellent investor and manager. One of his successes at Bain was a company called Steel Dynamics; I toured their mini mill facility at Fort Wayne last summer, it was staggeringly awesome. If you live close to a steel mill, you should try to tour it.

But what we have to get past is this frankly Marxist idea that one man succeeds at the cost of destruction to another. Wealth does not exist in nature, to be "distributed" indiscriminately; like all human values, wealth must be produced. And in capitalism, the man who produces a fortune for himself actually creates a far greater value, relatively speaking, for each man who works in his factory. And the same is true of mechanization in industry; if you work in a modern factory, the mechanization available to you makes each hour of your labor infinitely more productive (and safe) than ten men doing the same job. Industrial progress sets your hands free and thus lifts your mind to higher and greater productive activities.

It has to start in the schools. When I was playing basketball at the gym tonight, I got to thinking about what they should really be teaching kids in junior high. Teach them how capitalism really works, teach them about dividend investing, teach them that they are going to be responsible for their own lives.

How big was manufacturing as a source of employment again in the US?

Also, i just caught that you said that the US has the highest tax rate in the world. How can that be when Obama, $400K a year is taxed at 25%, Romney, at ~$23million a year is at 15%. Do you mean corporate taxes? How about GE who paid almost no taxes in the US?

****, I get taxed at a higher rate than Romney at 0.2% of his income. Even if he got taxed at 30%, he'd still have 304 times the disposable income I get.

Frankly, i understand why Occupy Manhattan and all these guys are attacking Romney & Wall Street. The odds seem to be really stacked against the middle class now.

 

[Inquisitus]

This whole tax percentage is framed badly.

The real point is, Romney (or any other "rich" person) contributed a HELL of a lot more to the well-being of this country than the vast majority of people.

Raising the tax rate on investing will REDUCE INVESTING. Investments are what create jobs. Why not just lower the earned income rate instead?

Or better yet, stop *****ing because someone pays a different percentage but still pays MILLIONS a year to support this country?

People talk about paying their "Fair share", what about all of those who are getting a free ride and are a net recipient of tax dollars?

Again, even at 30% or even 50%, Romney would still have over $10 million of disposable income a year. Yes he pays more in a year than most people make in a lifetime. But that's exactly the point. The reason the tax rate is important to people is that Romney can still live a lavish life at 50% tax rate. Someone at $25K a year would probably have a pretty crappy quality of life. I'm sure you know this so I'm not quite sure why you think the tax rate is framed badly?

 

[Ninja Dude]

Romney is about as "unemployed" as any freelancer - he still generates upwards of $10 million a year in income. 13.9% is awful low, especially when you consider that right after WW2, America saw its greatest growth spurt when income tax was raised to 70% minimum on top 1% wealthy. We built our superhighways and infrastructure that currently makes our lifestyle possible with that money.

Today we find ourselves in an even bigger financial crisis and the rich are crying about how even raising their 35% a tiny bit will ruin them financially Historically we know this is bull**** - the millionaires of the late 40's did not go bankrupt. In fact they ended up making MORE money in the long run for investing in America's job market and middle class.

It is NOT class warfare to raise taxes on the rich. It IS class warfare to let the rich do shady **** that destroys 300 million jobs overnight, and not only fail to punish them, but BAIL THEM OUT. Romney is in bed with these *******s. His top financiers are Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, etc (same as Obama)

In fact the only discernable difference between Romney and Obama is that one wants welfare for the rich and the other wants welfare for the poor. Neither will honor the will of the American people, nor will they remedy the financial problems we are facing, because they subscribe to the same Keynesian, fiat money, scam economy that got us in this mess.

Ron Paul is the only sane choice if we really want to change things up. The rest are all corrupt and firmly lodged up the rectums of lobbyists and bankers. That said it will take a miracle to get Paul elected. We've already seen voter fraud in two states and the media is doing everything possible to marginalize his popularity