So I got this 25 year old friend who's a virgin

[nonameok]

Why can't the Lord talk to you directly, Luke?

 

[izza]

I understand that our society lacks real rites of adulthood. Other cultures have them. Because we don't, we find a rite of adulthood in drinking, having sex, moving out of your parents house. Although these are adult behaviors, lots of people who think like children do them. And lots of people who truly do behave like adults don't.

Luke doesn't have to do any of the above to assert himself, be successful with women, or be happy. Please stop feeding false and immature beliefs.

Is this how people in your life treat you when they disagree with you? Belittle you, try to make you feel bad? Do they point out your failings, do they try to prove to you that you're wrong, and tell you things you don't want to hear?

Do they try to humiliate you? Do they teach you that change comes through self-loathing?

That is not the behavior of real friends. I would ask everyone on this thread to act like a real friend to one another, to support each other. Let live with respect.

Izza

 

[martinM.]

The above poster brought up some interesting things. Anxiety specifiaclly. It's totally ok to admit when you're nervous. By becoming more social you'll learn that people get nervous, and it's not as big a deal as it seems.

As for moving out, maybe it's something you should try, getting out of your comfort zone works wonders. It might be a little rough at first, but you'll be glad you did. I moved to the U.S from France by myself at 21 (last year). It was hard and a bit scarey at first, but i'm glad i did it.

 

[iambrian81]

Ok, fine. If luke and you are happy living with your mom, and dont like sex, then WHY are you in this forum.

More important, do NOT give advice to people who are ASKING how to get laid.

It's like a homeless beggar giving advice on a business owner how to run a business.

A business owner would rather get advices from more qualify people, such as bill gate and not a beggar.

In fact, if you dont care about getting laid, then dont go to seduction forum and preach your bible retoiric. It's beyond fricking annoying.

 

[izza]

Salut Martin ! Ca te plait les states? Les repas sont plus enormes, et les serveurs sont plus acceuillant - souvent ca va. And I agree, moving abroad is a wonderful way to find yourself!

Thanks for the kind words.

Brian,

I am not sure if you were directing those questions to me. But they're interesting so I'll answer them.

You will probably not find this answer to your first question very meaningful to you. I am trying to understand sex relations from an ethical point of view. I have always despised the superficiality and falseness of most relationships I see, starting with my own parents. I have been in one relationship, and it was good. Painful when it ended too and I have learned so much about myself as a result.

I wanted to study sexology and gender studies extensively - I wanted to do a reasonable amount of research before I had sex again. It is so powerful, but I also watch sex destroy a lot of lives - through STDs, kids, or just simply emotionally. It is so powerful, it can really harm people. But it can help powerfully too. So I wanted to make sure I had beliefs about sex that were compassionate, energetically sound, ethical, and comfortable for me. I have found them, so I imagine I will have sex again in the next couple of months. I am delighted with my research, and it has been wildly successful. I feel very comfortable with the implications of what I'm doing.

Many go through life not wanting to understand the consequences of their actions (eating meat, having sex, etc.). I cannot be that way. I take full responsibility for everything I do. And that requires understanding, as best I can, consequences.

As for not giving advice for people asking how to get laid, again, getting laid is really easy. Anyone can give you advice on that, because there are so many different things that work.

As for whether or not you should listen to us, that's up to you. That is your choice - and perhaps loss - to exclude our points of view. Every person has their wisdom to share. A lady with SP just taught me a lesson about approaching yesterday. I've met really awkward dudes that taught me a ton about women. Everybody has a helpful insight.

The best we can do is take the wisdom people offer, and leave their faults behind. That is better than many who try to copy everything a guru does. That is a mistake. They lose their authenticity, which is the source of all real social skills. Plus these people end up taking on both the vices of their heroes, which shows a lack of judgment. Besides, a vice is easy to imitate, whereas a virtue is not.

In short, I would suggest that you learn to copy the useful things from everyone you meet, and also learn to leave the things that aren't for you behind. Once you see it this way, anybody can teach you "how to get laid" or how to build a business. Some can teach you better than others, of course.

In fact, I have learned some of my most important lessons about women, dating, attraction, and approaching from people who never approach and who are very shy. If you pay attention to life, its lessons are everywhere. If you wait for somebody who's some guru about women to tell you everything you're going to believe, you're going to miss a lot of wisdom. Wisdom is everywhere, but you need an open mind to collect it.

Again, it's up to you, and I respect your choice. I would just suggest you open yourself to the world around you, which is always teaching us what we need to know.

And, on this site in general, most of the advice you're going to hear is from bitter people who hate themselves and don't approach the way they'd like. Most people just aren't as honest as Luke about their lack of experience. If you truly don't think what he says is useful for you, that's one thing. It's another to dismiss an idea because of its source. You need to evaluate whether the idea works for you. If it does, great, borrow it. If it doesn't, who are you to say it's not useful for anyone else?

This is a discussion board, we're here discuss. If we knew everything, what would be the point? Most people who are satisfied with women leave pretty quickly.

Finally, I didn't read this thread carefully enough to know if Luke was preaching to other people. I think preaching to others is not very kind or friendly. If Luke was doing that, I would ask that he stop. I also think Luke has the right to be confused about his beliefs - to want sex but also be confused about what that means Biblically for him as a devout person. He doesn't have to have all the answers. I'm sure he is trying to figure out a way, as all of us are, to harmonize all our parts and beliefs, and go forward with women comfortably. It is not an easy thing to do, as I'm sure almost anyone here can attest.

I just keep in mind that the goal of learning a thing is not to learn it but to make it easy. Picking up women is easy when you're in harmony with yourself. So that Luke is so aware of his inner discord is a great first step.

Izza

 

[Alle_Gory]

Please stop feeding false and immature beliefs.

The main difference between an adult and a child is that the ability to fend for themselves. Moving out? That is a sign of self-sufficiency and independence. And adult trait.

Finally, I didn't read this thread carefully enough to know if Luke was preaching to other people. I think preaching to others is not very kind or friendly. If Luke was doing that, I would ask that he stop.

This is one of the reasons I rip on Luke. He knows nothing about religion, or about dealing with women. He pretends and preaches about both like he knows.

Deceitful little child-man.



You should really pay attention to what people are and do, not just what they can be. Ideals are nice, but in reality are a waste of time. You see potential in Luke. I see a weak willed individual with a shattered ego. In order to give himself some value and importance he parades on the forums giving 'advice'.

 

[izza]

The main difference between an adult and a child is that the ability to fend for themselves. Moving out? That is a sign of self-sufficiency and independence. And adult trait.

I understand that it is normal to see things that way in Western culture. And it may do Luke good to be more independent.

Also, some people just like their parents. I've lived apart from them for 6 years, I have a solid job. I also like my parents, and I'm fine with living with them. Like all things, it has plusses and minuses. I get to see my parents more but have less of my own space.

I have plenty of self-sufficiency and independence (have lived in two foreign countries)

What is your relationship like with your parents? Do you tell them about your posts on SoSuave and all your success with women? Could you live with them? Do you feel envy that Luke is so close to his mom?

One thing is for certain: anyone who gets along great with their parents is very lucky. Those with that good luck should not just throw it away. They should be independent and self-sufficient, but also take advantage of a wonderful resource.

This is one of the reasons I rip on Luke. He knows nothing about religion, or about dealing with women. He pretends and preaches about both like he knows.

Deceitful little child-man.

This is not a religious forum, so I will not discuss religious issues here. Except to say I could not care less if he's ignorant about religion in your opinion. I find this subject completely irrelevant.

As for preaching about women, I would say about 90% of advice you receive on this forum is from guys who are not speaking from experience. They parroting advice they read elsewhere on SoSuave. They are testing out new ideas they have through giving advice to other people. It is so rare to get advice that begins with "I tried this once and it did/didn't work because...."

In effect, they're testing their ideas off other people's situations. It's not very mature, perhaps, but well over half of guys on here are doing just that.

So I imagine you are implicitly claiming to be outstandingly satisfied and experienced with women right now, is that correct?

You should really pay attention to what people are and do, not just what they can be. Ideals are nice, but in reality are a waste of time. You see potential in Luke. I see a weak willed individual with a shattered ego. In order to give himself some value and importance he parades on the forums giving 'advice'.

Perhaps. Like I said, most advice you get around here is from guys like that. There is no reason to single out Luke. I do think it sucks that so many guys think it's ok to give advice that isn't based on experience. But that's the nature of this forum.

In fact, the difference I see between Luke and most people is that he is incredibly honest about his real level of experience. Whereas most guys, and I'm not necessarily referring to you because I haven't followed your posts, are silent about their real level of experience. People who are honest about their inexperience, they are ridiculed. Even though their honesty was incredibly rare (and healthy), they are punished.

So what you have is a bunch of bitter, inexperienced guys pretending to be gurus. Very very few are honest about their real level of experience.

I would rather speak with someone who is open about who they are and where they come from and the problems they're having right now. I prefer the openness to advice doled out in general terms, without any personal examples, most of it bitter.

So let's stop talking about Luke and, if you feel comfortable, tell me about you. And again, I do not care if you lack experience or if you have all the experience in the world. Again, success for me is being happy and generally satisfied with your life.

Again, this isn't about you "proving" that you're a guru. I know you must be very satisfied or else your criticisms of Luke would be profoundly hypocritical and extremely selfish and immature. I'm not looking for a guru.

But on the other hand, I'm a bit concerned because if you were as satisfied and at peace with your love life as you implicitly claim, you would feel no need to be critical of anybody who is on a path to learning.

I see potential in most guys on this board. But the best key to getting women is honesty. That's why I see more potential in Luke. If you can be brutally honest with people about where you are in life, they will join your team. That's all dating is, getting people to join your team.

Also, I'm surprised that you can't find anything better to put in your signature than a quote from Luke. I find that pathetic.

So if you have a chance, I would appreciate some more information about the challenges you're facing with dating right now, and some of your recent successes. If you can't talk about these things in detail, I obviously see no point in discussing Luke's merits when you are behind a screen of silence.

Izza

 

[martinM.]

Salut Martin ! Ca te plait les states? Les repas sont plus enormes, et les serveurs sont plus acceuillant - souvent ca va. And I agree, moving abroad is a wonderful way to find yourself!

Salut Izza!

Haha, my family is jewish/arab so i'm used to a lot of food.

 

[trv26]

I wanted to study sexology and gender studies extensively - I wanted to do a reasonable amount of research before I had sex again. It is so powerful, but I also watch sex destroy a lot of lives - through STDs, kids, or just simply emotionally. It is so powerful, it can really harm people. But it can help powerfully too. So I wanted to make sure I had beliefs about sex that were compassionate, energetically sound, ethical, and comfortable for me. I have found them, so I imagine I will have sex again in the next couple of months. I am delighted with my research, and it has been wildly successful. I feel very comfortable with the implications of what I'm doing.
Izza

That sounds a bit over the top, but do share wat you found out with us at some point.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

FYI. You don't have a long distance girlfriend. You have a penpal.

Oh really. (roll-eyes). This lady is obsessed with me. I had to tell her to stop calling my cell phone, and she has still called 6 times or 5 times in a row in the evening and writes all sorts of raucy emails about lying next to me, kissing me, massaging me and smelling me.

She sent me money to buy plane tickets for her to come down during her March break because she didn't have a credit card to do this herself. She sent the money in bills cash, I deposited it in the bank and used my credit card to buy these tickets.

She will be down here by March 28th. If I didn't put the breaks on her she would still be going nuts thinking about me. In fact, she went into the madhouse earlier this year because she thought I was playing games with her when I backed out of a commitment to go to Winnipeg to see her (and perhaps other reasons).

Doesn't sound like just a penpal to me - in fact, I'd be worried that she'll push me to have sex with her and get offended if I refuse. I regret ever telling her about my fleshlight. I thought she would just go away when I did that, but I think I encouraged her. By playing desperate (i.e. no girlfriend and using a fleshlight), she feels encouraged to pursue me rather than the other way. Never apply the same game you'll use to attractive women and use them on ugly women -- never, lesson learned here. Thought she's run for the hills rather than being attracted to me - instead she desperate wants to fly from North Manitoba to come here to meet me. gulp.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

deleted post.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Why can't the Lord talk to you directly, Luke?

He can talk to me directly, but sometimes my own passions and emotions may becloud His voice. I may seek rationalisatoins or justifications to do something that is wrong. It is those times that someone else, who can see the situation objectively and is close to the Lord, can be of great help to me.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Way to go izza -- you silenced both of them on this thread. When it came time to account for their own success with women -- they have no response, while I have always been transparent and honest in my portrayal of an inner conflict concerning sexuality. It's good that you are studying sexology.

You are cool izza. I'll share a link with you that will go into the secret lives of women -- many cool stuff there that is good for sexology. My gift to you:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ChiLatino .

Anyone else who believes they are too proud to look at any advice or link offered by me and it's their loss.

Izza is right. Generally those at the bottom are most harsh to those who are pereived to be just below them. Same thing with Blacks in the past. The Irish were considered poor and lowest strata in society in the past -- it's not suprizing, to maintain status, they were harsher on Blacks than wealthy whites back then. The same social phenominon is here. People who are just at the bottom seem to have the biggest axe to grind. Notice successful people, like slickaz, or whatever are not here saying anything? Makes you think.

 

[S.Y.L]

I bet that Jesus was a ****in stud, and banged any chick he wanted too.

 

[izza]

Way to go izza -- you silenced both of them on this thread.

My goal wasn't to silence them. My goal was to learn a bit more about their background, and put their remarks on a more supportive path. I know they have wonderful things to contribute - they already have contributed some good ideas. I view their silence as a failure - but the previous tone on this thread was a failure as well. We can do better on this board.

Also, I'd like to compliment their generosity and benevolence - to put so much effort into this thread to help you, and them. I know their hearts were in the right place.

Luke, from reading these posts I believe you also did not know how to have a constructive conversation with them. But perhaps a little break is best for all.

Ever hear the saying, "watch how people attack others - it exposes their greatest fears." Have you ever met a person who walks up to people and tries to tickle them? That is the surest sign that person is ticklish.

Just as a tip, and this applies universally - whenever people are showing unusual aggression, unkindness, impatience - these things never have to do with you. The point of mockery is to feel better than others by forgetting their own vulnerability. Redirecting attention to their shortcomings defeats the purpose of mockery in the first place.

Example: let's say people were making fun of me for being fat. If they do, I ask them if they feel fat. Even if they don't, I ask if they would still love themselves if they were fat. I ask them if they love their body.

Some will lie and say they love their body. I say, "you are lying. If you truly loved your body, you would feel no need at all to put others down."

If they continue, I tell them they can hate themselves if they like. Their attitude of self-hatred is not for me. Thanks for the feedback, I say, I don't want to think like them.

Please don't think I'm making this up. I say stuff like this whenever I need to. People are stunned. And the best part: from then on, they know I will aikido their teasing to expose their biggest weaknesses. If they tease me, it will always end in humiliation for them. And not because I'm trying to humiliate them. Because I find the most helpful thing I can do for me, them, and everyone watching is to expose the true meaning of teasing.

Even if they are physically violent, they know I will use that to say something about them. And they know that if they act out against me, EVERYONE will see it my way - as an act of weakness and fear. Now that is a deterrent.

Luke, you were too busy playing the victim to have a more mature mentality in this thread. But let this be a tip for everybody who's reading - the above is an incredibly effective way to eliminate unpleasant remarks. And there's no need to play the victim. Also, keep in mind that a lot of teasing, even though it feels awful to be teased, can be in some ways a misguided attempt at a generous act. Most tease in a misguided attempt to help people, improve people, give them feedback. We adults don't tease much. But at the same time, most adults have gone too far at the other end - we're terrified of teasing others. And so, in the adult world, one of the hardest things to find is real, honest, direct feedback. In fact, this is why I treasure children for their rare honesty! Just my thoughts on this.

When it came time to account for their own success with women -- they have no response,

Not yet. Perhaps we'll hear from them yet.

while I have always been transparent and honest in my portrayal of an inner conflict concerning sexuality.

I for one appreciate it.

You are cool izza. I'll share a link with you that will go into the secret lives of women -- many cool stuff there that is good for sexology. My gift to you:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ChiLatino.

I may have to check this out, but not at work! Thanks for the link.

Anyone else who believes they are too proud to look at any advice or link offered by me and it's their loss.

I think anyone that rejects any guy's point of view based on how successful they are with women is doing themselves a disservice. It's hard to predict if you in particular would help another guy in particular. So I don't know if it's their loss to dismiss you in particular - some people just don't have a point of view that's compatible with our own. It doesn't seem to me that your point of view was useful for them.

Izza is right. Generally those at the bottom are most harsh to those who are pereived to be just below them. Same thing with Blacks in the past. The Irish were considered poor and lowest strata in society in the past -- it's not suprizing, to maintain status, they were harsher on Blacks than wealthy whites back then. The same social phenominon is here. People who are just at the bottom seem to have the biggest axe to grind. Notice successful people, like slickaz, or whatever are not here saying anything? Makes you think.

I'm hearing some victim mentality here. That is normal. Most people on earth today, myself included some of the time, have a aggressor-victim mentality - a spiral that is hard for everyone to get out of. Few people who have been victimized, though it seems they should learn a lesson from it, are above oppression when they have an opportunity. It's really a worldwide problem of mentality - as a world we lack compassion for our fellows - human, animals, plants. We lack responsible behavior, worldwide. But I agree that this mentality has caused more suffering for certain groups at certain times. So again, these are global mentalities and tendencies that in some cases caused more problems than others. Think of the Jews in Germany. We have improved our mentality a lot since then, but still being a Palestinian in Israel is not great - a kid sewing in a Cambodian factory, etc. We as a human race lack an enormous amount of compassion and long-term thinking. That does not just apply to those with power - although it does seem like those with power could do more about the problem. Anyway, that's how I think of it.

Izza

 

[R19]

I think I hit 100 mph through this thread by page 2. Too much entertainment!!! I'm too sexy for sex!

 

[Alle_Gory]

My goal wasn't to silence them. My goal was to learn a bit more about their background, and put their remarks on a more supportive path. I know they have wonderful things to contribute - they already have contributed some good ideas.

You command respect by not asking for it. You're all right by me izza.

I'll answer your questions.

Successes
- more open with my intentions around new people I meet. focused more on girls. so far I have positive responses, some don't like it but I like to know ahead of time. being more sexual works.
- being more relaxed. as you can tell I'm a bit of a jerk sometimes. more chill with friends and less judgmental with chicks. i care less about that. im trying to focus more on having fun.

Challenges
- building more interest and attraction when I talk. i'm working on presenting things. i'd like to be able to talk about nothing and have people captivated. trying out voice exercises to lower the pitch and get a better 'range'
- being 'closed'. sometimes i just dont like to give people information about me. i dont know if this is good or bad.

 

[izza]

Oh really. (roll-eyes).

To me, and maybe I'm misreading what you meant, but this response is just as condescending and mean-spirited as the worst posts here. Again, the bully-victim mentality is global, and I'm not seeing an enormous amount of evidence that you have transcended it. I'm sure you are a kind, compassionate person, and not the bullying or teasing type. Still, this doesn't mean the eye rolling was compassionate of you, much less constructive.

This lady is obsessed with me. I had to tell her to stop calling my cell phone, and she has still called 6 times or 5 times in a row in the evening and writes all sorts of raucy emails about lying next to me, kissing me, massaging me and smelling me.

She sent me money to buy plane tickets for her to come down during her March break because she didn't have a credit card to do this herself. She sent the money in bills cash, I deposited it in the bank and used my credit card to buy these tickets.

She will be down here by March 28th. If I didn't put the breaks on her she would still be going nuts thinking about me. In fact, she went into the madhouse earlier this year because she thought I was playing games with her when I backed out of a commitment to go to Winnipeg to see her (and perhaps other reasons).

I think everyone commenting on this thread has plenty of reason to think this proposed tryst of yours sounds bizarre. I don't think I'm alone in wondering if this situation is healthy for you. This girl sounds sweet and passionate. She also sounds impulsive and like she needs to work out some issues on her own. Many people have times in their lives where they are like whirlpools - sucking others down with them. People in this situation are bad news for dating, and need good friends. If they're going to date, she would need someone with a rock-solid frame, impeccable emotional health, and self-advocacy. I'm concerned that these don't describe you right now - which is fine. I'm simply suggesting that, based on the little information I have, I don't understand how the chemistry you create with this girl could be good for either of you.

Doesn't sound like just a penpal to me - in fact, I'd be worried that she'll push me to have sex with her and get offended if I refuse. I regret ever telling her about my fleshlight. I thought she would just go away when I did that, but I think I encouraged her. By playing desperate (i.e. no girlfriend and using a fleshlight), she feels encouraged to pursue me rather than the other way. Never apply the same game you'll use to attractive women and use them on ugly women -- never, lesson learned here. Thought she's run for the hills rather than being attracted to me - instead she desperate wants to fly from North Manitoba to come here to meet me. gulp.

I think I would suggest being just friends. When she comes to town, I think we should be on the watchout for man-rape. I'm going to dial 9-1... you just post an SOS and I'll dial that last 1. Ok, exaggerating a bit there. But seriously, I appreciate your honesty about all this stuff. I'm sure she's more than a penpal. I'm concerned that you are so flattered by her interest that you are acting more out of a feeling of powerlessness, a desire to seize this opportunity, curiosity, lonliness, and a sudden bout of self-love inspired by this girl.

So I'm not saying I think it's a bad idea. I'm not saying you shouldn't go through with this. I think you are the best judge of what is healthy for you right now. I do think, based on what I've read, and my very limited understanding of this situation, this chemistry sounds juvenile. Many aspects of this situation sound immature. Her behavior, constant calling, and how vindicated you seem to suddenly feel through her interest, smell to me of an impending lesson for you. But again, you are the best judge of what is best for you. And I certainly hope I'm wrong.

Your posts have not had the language of someone with a really strong knowledge and love for yourself. Many try to find self-love in healthy dating, but self-love is actually, in my humble opinion, a prerequisite. Unhealthy people date unhealthy others, and create a destructive chemistry. I know many people who destroy what self-love they had through dating and staying with the wrong girl. I have friends I can barely talk to anymore they are so destroyed from their unwise relationships. On the other hand, I have friends who chose wisely, and grow spectacularly every day due to their wonderful choice of relationship. I also know people, such as myself, who choose to be single for a while for growth. I cannot even describe to you how much I learn every single day. My head wants to explode. I pick up women from time to time to see where I'm at. And it's the perfect life for me right now. So please choose carefully.

There is a lot of research that shows that although we choose our friends, those we allow into our lives shape who we are. Allowing a person into your life, even based on desperation, shapes who you are, and your mentalities. I recommend thinking very carefully about what it means to incorporate this girl into your life. Therefore, you will be happier if you choose friends who shape your life for the better. We can't choose our family, but I do recommend choosing your friends and trysts wisely.

Finally, please keep in mind that this is not an attack. I'm not interested in you defending yourself. I'm not interested in justification, proof, evidence, counter-arguments, reasons I'm wrong, or shortcomings in my thinking. Like I said, I'm going on words, little ants on a page, and I trust you - I really do - to do what's right for you. You are smart enough to succeed. And by succeed I mean find happiness. These are just thoughts, impressions - I don't stand by them. All you have to do is inform me that I misunderstood and I believe you without any justification at all. I am obsessed with viewing the world differently than other people. This is a curse and a gift, and it is often not in my best interest. Following is definitely underrated in our society. Still, one of the best things I can offer my brothers and cousins is an alternative viewpoint, a (sometimes) novel mental tool to put in your mental toolbox. Sometimes it's an idea you already have, and that's great. Sometimes not. That is the spirit of all my posts.

Izza

 

[iambrian81]

Yawn. I'm simply way too lazy to bother feeding your delusional ego Luke. Keep being a loser virgin, living with your mom until you're 50 for all i care. You're simply boring to me now.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Yawn. I'm simply way too lazy to bother feeding your delusional ego Luke. Keep being a loser virgin, living with your mom until you're 50 for all i care. You're simply boring to me now.

You're kidding right?

This stuff is GOLD! It's like watching some industrial trainwreck unfold with the Benny Hill soundtrack playing in your head.