So I got this 25 year old friend who's a virgin

[StevenR]

I don't think so. First of all, people who have truly given their life to the Lord will bring their lives into subjection to God. For example, my Bible does not take fornication and pre-maritial sex lightly and takes an uncompromising position: (I rushed this, but I can back up everything I'm saying by scripture and verse if requested).

1) Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit -- if you have casual sex you are effectively joining the Temple of God to the temple of Baal as your spirit becomes one.

2) A Christian is to present his body as a living sacrifice unto God.

3) Let not fornication be named ONCE among you as becometh saints (Ephesians).

4) It's good for a man not to touch a woman (Corinthians)

5) A hoe is like a deep ditch (proverbs) -- talks about older married women seducing yonger men or literal hoes.

6) The marriage bed is honourable to all, but hoemongers and adulters will God judge.

7) Do not eat with a fornicator. (should be disfellowshiped from the church if their fornication or sins are known) (New testament)

8) Ultimately, if a professing or born-again Christian, habitually commits these types of sins without real repentance, they are going to hell (Galatians 6), irrespective of what they are professing.

If you think the Bible is taking this lightly -- I don't think so. Believe me, I was looking for a way out to sin -- there is no loophole anywhere in scripture. Back in 2006, and even today, I was looking for scriptural justification or loopholes to do something, and I could not find anything.

This is definately not an excuse -- it's a direction. Getting laid and fornication is the devil's path and road, everybody is following it because that's where the world is heading. However, Jesus leads into paths of righteousness for His name's sake. (Psalm 23). Jesus path is narrow and straight -- few people follow it. We are called to a life of purity, not corruption.

Find me any point of scripture, especially in the new testament, where there is any light stand where it says that "you shouldn't do it, but if you mess up God will understand". It says more like "Hazard, do not touch the electric wire or you'll get shocked" in it's treatment of fornication.

**********

What I will agree with is that there is a pseudo-form of Christianity going around where God is viewed as a loving forgiving God that is essentially a big nice guy pushover where you can sin and get away with it, and that people have a license to sin and ask God for forgiveness afterwards. For example, I believe there is a poster who is a drummer in a church, and he's seducing the girls in the church. Bad example of how things are supposed to be.

Phineas and Hophnie did that (seduce Jews in the old temple where they were priests) -- in the book of 1 Samuel, and guess what -- Israel was defeated by the Philistineans -- the Ark of the Covenant did not defend them when those in authority were playing games with God.

However the point that Jesus came was to deliver people from their sins -- when you are delivered it has no control over you. In a sence, fornicators are sex-addicts or have an addiction -- because their passions control them.

There is no weak stand here.

Luke, the Bible was written when people got married at 13 and there was no birth control pill or condoms, and they needed to have lots of children to work the farm. So basically any sex outside of marriage would have been pedophilia or cheating on your partner. I am an atheist but that is besides the point. I think what these Biblical laws back then had in mind were women sleeping around and cheating on their husbands, which many on this board pointed out they tend to do this quite often and men hate it. I think most men want a reliable partner and they want to make sure the kids they are raising are their own and not some cuckhold. The men back then had more control in society than they do nowadays, so they made it part of the social contract written in a religious book that "laid down the law" on women and the men they cheated with.

 

[Amazing]

you cant change a person until they want to change.

I tried many times with my virgin friend, but screw him if he is going to be a sissy

 

[Jaggs]

That whole bible argument is redundant. Ridiculous.

I'm going to fornicate with as many woman as I can just to prove God wrong. :cheer:

(He'll probably be cheering me on anyway).

 

[iambrian81]

Luke Skywalker is buried under so much social conditioning bull**** that i think he'll be LUCKY if he becomes a 40 year old virgin.

I have a feeling he'll be a FIFTY YEAR OLD virgin or hell, even die a virgin.

Seriously luke, get a job, become successful AND take a bootcamp. You needed it.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Seriously luke, get a job, become successful AND take a bootcamp. You needed it.

This is like trying to get a meercat to swim.

No loopholes -- Bible takes a strong stand.

Then why the fvck are you here? Why are you on a forum full of fornicators. I thought you were superior to us.


"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." Matthew 5:27-30.

You sin every time you go to that porn site and lust for those women. The bible is very clear as to what you do next.

 

[iambrian81]

Jesus, i say ban luke skywalker or at least give him a title of "afc noobtard". With the amount of social conditioning programing he has, he have ABSOLUTELY ZERO credibility to be giving pickup advice. I mean ZEEEERRRRROOOO!!!

I mean for christ shake, he has over 2,000 posts. Which mean he has screw over hundreds of members on this forum who are stupid enough to listen to him.

 

[douglast]

Basically, I ask him, how come he doesnt go out, talk to girls and get laid.

here's the laundry list of his excuses:
-He's too pure for it
-Most girls arent pretty enough for him, because he watch too much porn, and gets too picky.
-he gets bored with girls easily
-He could've get laid a bunch of times in the past but chooses not to

The thing is, almost all virgin have the SAME ****ing list of bull**** excuses on why they dont get laid. Until they man up and admit they're a social failure, they will never learn how to get laid and connect with women. The biggest example in this forum is luke skywalker, 32 year old virgin still living with his mom.

what should he say? should he admit that he´s a social failure? he don´t know that.
if you´re 25 and a virgin, you´ve got lots of problems ( i know, cause i´ve been)
at first he must be willing to change, but at the age of 25 i´t´s damn hard to change, if you´re starting from failure.
on the one hand he knows that he is a social failure, on the other hand he must cope with this and so there are the excuses. he believes in them.
By asking him, why he doesnt go out, talk to girls and get laid you won´t help him.
maybe he´s to afraid to talk to girls, maybe he´s extremely afraid of rejection, cause he experienced rejection his whole life and can´t get no more.

 

[iambrian81]

what should he say? should he admit that he´s a social failure? he don´t know that.
if you´re 25 and a virgin, you´ve got lots of problems ( i know, cause i´ve been)
at first he must be willing to change, but at the age of 25 i´t´s damn hard to change, if you´re starting from failure.
on the one hand he knows that he is a social failure, on the other hand he must cope with this and so there are the excuses. he believes in them.
By asking him, why he doesnt go out, talk to girls and get laid you won´t help him.
maybe he´s to afraid to talk to girls, maybe he´s extremely afraid of rejection, cause he experienced rejection his whole life and can´t get no more.

**** man, this is what separate men and boys. When I first join the community, i did admit i was a social failure. So i ****ing try EVERYTHING and i mean everything. I went out hit on girls even when i felt extreme pain from social and approach anxiety.

The first girl i approach direct, i literally felt pain in my spine. It paralyze me for 10 seconds. I tried walking around peacock to the roof for a while, net shirt, eye liner etc.

I suffer immense social embarrasment in the name of the game many times to make this **** happens.

When you admit you hit rock bottom and being a social failure, the only way is up and you're willing to risk all to grow and learn.

When you refuse to do that, then you will forever stuck in that stupid pit and never grow.

Which is why when i look at certain guy who join the community who has the same level of social skills i have when i first join. Believe me, this is rare lol. I look at how much honesty they're willing to admit for themselves and how much they're willing to push themselves then i judge wether they will become successful.

Almost all of the one who start where i start fails. I think pretty much all.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Luke Skywalker, aren't you the guy who made a thread here a while ago about how great fleshlights are? Come on, get off that crack. You're no more serious about the Bible than some random infidel. You're engaging in pre-marital sex, it's just that you're banging a fake pvssy cos you can't get a real one.

The Bible may or may not have loopholes for God-fearing virgin guys to exploit and get some pre-marital pvssies but the point here is that those guys are just using that as an excuse.

Of course I wrote about a fleshlight and have no compunction against using it because it doesn't fall under the category of fornication. The Bible says that two become one when you fornicate and it's the spiritual union involved in having sex with ANOTHER person which makes it a temple defiling sin. If you are by yourself or masturbating, then there is no 'two becoming one', it's just me.

Second of all, the fleshlight is purchased for theraputic purposes because masturbating by hand trains the penis in an awful way. The fleshlight makes sure that only the strongest erections survive and ensures that you have to work towards that orgasm rather than take the easy way out with your hands. This is necessary to maintain a balance of health. Do you think I enjoy using a fleshlight when I can get off quicker by hand? I've written threads about fleshlights on the fleshlight board about how my thoughts have become more pure using it compared to using my hand.

The point is still this, fornication and masturbation are completely different concepts. You cant show one scripture verse that deals with an individual on a solitary and sexual level, but there are many verses that deal with the sexual when other people are involved -- why is that? It's always more than one individual involved before there is a threshold of something wrong.

 

[iambrian81]

HOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY SSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTT.

Luke skywalker endorse Fleshlight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm rolling on the floor laughing. OMFG!!!!!!

Seriously, the mods need to stop him from giving advices.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Then why the fvck are you here? Why are you on a forum full of fornicators. I thought you were superior to us.


"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." Matthew 5:27-30.

You sin every time you go to that porn site and lust for those women. The bible is very clear as to what you do next.

You have to be married in order to commit adultery. Since I'm not married I can look at any woman lustfully since I wont be committing adultery to anyone. Whatever.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Genesis 38:8-10 – “Then Judah said to Onan, ‘Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so he put him to death also.”



Psalm 119:35-37 – “Direct me in the path of your commands, for there I find delight. Turn my heart toward your statues and not toward selfish gain. Turn my eyes away from worthless things; preserve my life according to your word.”

 

[I.A.F.Y.B.]

Make a bet with him one night. Tell him you will bet him you could get more numbers than him in a bar. If he says no cause he doesnt want trashy women or some lame excuse. Say its just for fun and you dont have to hook up with them. See, how he reacts or does if he takes you bet.

I'm still going with what I said.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Genesis 38:8-10 – “Then Judah said to Onan, ‘Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so he put him to death also.”

First of all you have to look at the context of that passage. It says that the brother had a duty to his brother to produce offspring as part of their ceremonial law or custom (no longer in effect now), and he treated that duty with contempt.

Second of all, that was actual sex because you have penetration with a woman, he just withdrew before orgasm. Has nothing to do with masturbation in either the act or context. For me to do something like that, I'd have to have sex with a woman and just get my d1ck out of there before I *** and *** on the ground instead. Still a very big and unrealistic stretch to try and stick that on masturbation.

Psalm 119:35-37 – “Direct me in the path of your commands, for there I find delight. Turn my heart toward your statues and not toward selfish gain. Turn my eyes away from worthless things; preserve my life according to your word.”

Alright, again, that does not say anything about masturbation. You still cant show there is any command against masturbation, or even show that it is a selfish gain at the expense of another individual or anyone. I've contrasted my life both with and without masturbation being involved and I can say I'm not any less selfish or selfless when it comes to my interaction with people with or without that being in my life.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

To set the record straight here, I'm not endorsing watching porn. Alle_Gory is obviously weak in the Bible and doesn't know to bring up the right verses to address the issue. If you are looking at hardcore porn, you are basically participating in an orgy. Softcore porn is a bit more ambigious. If you are appreciating the beauty of the female and studying her anatomy, but not getting overly sexually aroused, then it could be artistic.

As a matter of fact, I do not look at hardcore porn, and any porn I do look at may just be nude exotic woman where I'm appreciating their beauty for a duration of 5 minutes, or 7 minutes if they are on a natural scene accompanied by nice music and it's limited to that on occasion (not systematic). No lust is really involved other than an apperciation of beauty.
I'm sensitive to what is going in my mind and very accountable and have a online stopwatch to ensure the times are being adhered to.

Occasionally, the Lord will look down and monitor what I'm doing and say that He doesn't like it. When He does so, usually using my mom as an oracle, then I'll suspend such viewing for the rest of the month (the reset). Usually nothing is said unless I do something like watch a naked woman every single day. An occasional glance in a blue moon doesn't seem like anything.

If I do slip up - the worst case scenerio would be that I extended that time-limit and watched softcore porn and used an FL -but that's still controlled under a 3-strikes reguime on a month (usually under an hour per slip-up).

The premise of the above is because my long-distance girlfriend says it's okay with her and she wont feel bad or that I'm cheating with her if I engaged in this behavour -- so long as not a real woman is involved. Premise justification is between January 15th to April 15th. After April 15th, all porn viewing will be stopped (the expiration).

 

[Alle_Gory]

First of all you have to look at the context of that passage. It says that the brother had a duty to his brother to produce offspring as part of their ceremonial law or custom (no longer in effect now), and he treated that duty with contempt.

Second of all, that was actual sex because you have penetration with a woman, he just withdrew before orgasm. Has nothing to do with masturbation in either the act or context. For me to do something like that, I'd have to have sex with a woman and just get my d1ck out of there before I *** and *** on the ground instead. Still a very big and unrealistic stretch to try and stick that on masturbation.

Sex or not, this was a waste of good seed. The same thing happens when you jack off into that little rubber flashlight every night. You waste good seed. The passage is clear, God punished him for spilling the seed on the ground instead of for producing offspring.

Alright, again, that does not say anything about masturbation. You still cant show there is any command against masturbation, or even show that it is a selfish gain at the expense of another individual or anyone. I've contrasted my life both with and without masturbation being involved and I can say I'm not any less selfish or selfless when it comes to my interaction with people with or without that being in my life.

Masturbation is selfish pleasure. The passage clearly states, that if the activity does not bring you closer towards god it is worthless and selfish.


FYI. You don't have a long distance girlfriend. You have a penpal.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Sex or not, this was a waste of good seed. The same thing happens when you jack off into that little rubber flashlight every night. You waste good seed. The passage is clear, God punished him for spilling the seed on the ground instead of for producing offspring.

No you are stretching the passage to suit a moral belief that's not stated in the passage. You believe the wickedness is spilling seed. I believe the wickedness is contempt for a ceremonial law. We do not agree there. He could have had sex with her a future time and put his seed into her. Some contempt was in his heart towards his dead brother, the Lord saw that and punished him. Any further intepretation beyond that is a grey area -- a BIG grey area:

Furthermore a woman was involved. You cant overlook that fact. It also adds another dimension. The passage may be saying, if you start having sex with a woman, you have to complete it inside her vagina to orgasm. Or, you know what -- it could be saying that you cant wear a condom or any contraceptive device if you are having sex -- even if you are married. That would be a second and third interpretation to that passage that doesn't conform to your idea. All that passage can say is you have to have sex with a woman without using contraceptives, such as birth control, condoms, or anything that would allow the natural fertilization of the ovum. All these interpretations exist where a woman is involved - a REAL woman. So where does that leave that without a woman. Show me a passage where the Bible says something that's black and white, not subject to interpretation or grey areas, about masturbation -- let's face it, nothing there.

I think you are struggling to take some obscure passage of scripture, twisting it out of context to try and fit it into some belief that is not clear.

There are MANY, MANY, passages that clearly define fornication and adultery throughout the Bible, more in particular in the New Testament, and I don't have to rely on strething some obscure passage somewhere and twisting it around on some interpretation because it's black and white. The topic of masturbation clearly is full of holes since we cant even agree on what was wicked.

You fail to see context is important. For example, the Bible says thou shalt not kill. Does that mean you cant kill in self-defence or in war? Of course not, the context defines the morality of that commandment. There is no commandment that is generally given about masturbation. There are plenty of verses that talk about fornication and adultery that you have to twist the bible around to try to justify doing that rather than the other way around as you are doing here.

Masturbation is selfish pleasure. The passage clearly states, that if the activity does not bring you closer towards god it is worthless and selfish.

Right, and sure is eating ice cream. Again you are twisting scriptures. Show me a clear black and white scripture that deals with masturbation. Nothing there.

 

[Warrior74]

I promise you guys. Your not gonna win a religious argument with this guy. Just let it go. Horses for courses and all that. You just do you, I'mma do me.

 

[cw92]

1Th 4:2-8 (NIV) "For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God... For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit."

'When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening. (Lev 15:16-18)

Its pretty clear that masturbation is a sin. There's your "black and white" passage.

Its pretty clear from this passage along with Alle Gory's, that masturbation is considered a sin. In fact I go to a Catholic school, and there was a long dicussion about why masturbation and anal sex are sins.

The point of sex, at least in a Catholic view is to bring to people closer together, and closer to God.

Catholics beileve that anal sex, as well as masturbation does not achieve either of these. Ill find the passage's later.

 

[goodfoot]

No, that Scripture about being unclean was specifically to avoid diseases. You could find a similar Scripture about girls on their period. Anal sex, aka, sodomy, is a sin.