Smashing the LJBF barrier

[virtual_insanity]

Long story short, neighbour who has lived next door to me since we were both about 12, now 21, she has been my best friend, we've hooked up every now and again, realised lately that i would like a lot more than a kiss every six months, made my move on the weekend and she kissed me for a few seconds but then stopped and said "i can't, it feels like i'm kissing my brother"

I am having very little problems picking up other girls so this case of one-itis really isn't eating me up at all, I am constantly seeing LJBF problems happen to my friends, the people here, and all through out the community and i for one think it's a challenge that many deem impossible, but i believe it's not.

I see my options as
A) deal with it and move on, cuttin her from my life
B) deal with it and stay friends with her
C) experiment on her ways to break through the LJBF barrier while continuing my life

I have no fears of this girl ever being mad at me or telling me to get stuffed, we live next door to eachother so i have free reign to do whatever i want. I'm going to use this thread as journal for people to comment on or add their own experiences/advice/condemnations. I don't care if i fail, i just want to see if i can do one of the hardest things in pickup, breaking the longterm LJBF barrier...

I am not going to chase her or anything, in essence i've next'd her and am moving on with my life, but seeing as we see eachother randomly at least three times a week, she is going to be a side project that i can experiment on to see what happens. It's easy and harmless, because i don't have any idea if it'll work or not, and in essence i'm not going for a result, i'm looking for revelations and solid theories.

I'm taking the best advice i've seen on this board and am going to continue what i started on the weekend..... acting like she should want me, and when she shows behaviour that she doesn't, i'll make it seem like she's being weird. How we perceive ourselves is how women will perceive us, well i'm going to keep saying things to this girl that brothers don't say, and i am going to continue to be a sexual dominant male around her. Will post results when i get them

 

[mmx]

Don't bother attempting to break the LJBF barrier, it is not worth it at all. You are just wasting your time, effort and skills on an uphill battle. You should be spending your time dating other women than bothering with this one girl.

Although, if you do happen to pull it off, then by all means go ahead and document it here... perhaps you can make the next Mission Impossible movie.

 

[trajhenkhet02]

Truly if you found a way to do this I can almost see you writing the next front article for this site.

 

[brenbaus]

Breaking the LJBF barrier is next to impossible, i've given up on it, gotten over my one-itis, and still remain friends with this girl. Hell, i used to be her emotional tampon, made her stop using me for that and now we have a purley platonic relationship. Do not get yourself stuck in the "girlfriend" role in this womans life, it takes forever to get out of (if i had found sosuave before i got to the point i am at with her i would have nexted her for good) and is more of a pain than it is worth. If she says she just wants to be friends, you have 2 options:
1: Be friends
2:Next her

 

[virtual_insanity]

Don't bother attempting to break the LJBF barrier, it is not worth it at all. You are just wasting your time, effort and skills on an uphill battle. You should be spending your time dating other women than bothering with this one girl.

I'm not expending any energy on this girl, she comes round or we see each other out with friends, it's no battle for me at all, i am focussed completely on other girls, we just always run into eachother so i may as well just use her as a side project when we do meet up, my goal is to pick up chicks, not her, she's just something i can experiment on when the occassion arises

 

[MacAvoy]

Tell me more about your relationship with this girl in the past. Have you been her emotional tampon / platonic b/f? What exactly do you mean by hooked up every now and then? With more details, we can better evaluate whether it is feasible or not.

I admire your desire for conquest if indeed that is what it is. Tell us more about your social status, your success with women.

 

[American_Psycho]

Breaking the LJBF barrier isn't impossible, but it's almost never worth the effort it takes.

 

[Hawke]

Ok i've got to ask a question here, and one that's probably been answered a thousand times so i apologise for this.

If the LJBF barrier is impossible to break, which i don't believe btw, nothing is impossible; how is it that you can have friends who've known one another for years and fell in love?

If i remember right someone said that it's when a girl LJBF you when it becomes difficult to break out of it, she's confirmed in her mind your not right. So that kind of leaves the road open for friends to develop into more as in her mind you may be friends, but she's not turned you down for anything more.

Yet, people change their minds all the time. I'm sure all of us here have hated something at one time, and then as time went on we found we liked it. So why is there this belief that the LJBF title sticks forever? It should be quite simple, in theory, to lead her mind from taking the stance of seeing you as a friend to seeing you as something more.Yeah it may take time and requires more skill than with a girl you've just met, but i can't see why you can't get a girl thinking that you may just be right for her. All decisions can be reassesed, all opinions and views and beliefs can change. To think otherwise is missing reality.

I think those who say it's not worth the effort are just afraid to put in the effort. Yeah granted you do risk a lot turning her into something more than a friend, but what if that girl is actually something worth that risk and effort? Please don't come and say that no woman is worth that, because we all know that there are a few who are. So good luck virtual, if she's what you want i wish you all the luck.

 

[virtual_insanity]

Status of my game: I can score 6's and 7's fairly easily with a 90% kiss rate if i go out at least three times a week, probably 40% lay rate. 8's i can get if i put in a little more effort, and 9's and 10's i still have a little trouble getting, in fact i probably only get a 9 or a 10 once every six months, this neighbour of mine is quite easily a 9, even if i didn't know all i know about her.

I aint no pua, but i have solid game and getting sex is not a worry for me, this is why i'm after a girl who is more than sexual attraction, i want personality + hotness.

My relationship with this girl has been two way, she's been there for me like i've been there for her, basically we are like brother and sister, though at parties and special occassions (new years) sometimes the closeness we have leads to kissing and other stuff, on new years we ended up in a hotel and had the best sex of our lives, i was sick in the morning from too much booze and we didn't speak of it for six months, when we did we both agreed it probably shouldn't have happened even though it was amazing. The relationship we have is two way, i went away for three months to a college interstate, after a week she rang me crying saying she missed me and couldn't stop thinking about me, while i was away i got two letters a week from her and many loving text messages, i was on a sleazy rampage while i was away and continued while i got back, she started goin out with a guy during this time but the closeness was still as strong as ever, she still came home drunk and called me to come round to hold her and i did the same to her.

My friends and family love her and hers love me, everybody who sees us together thinks we're going out, or says we look so great together, if she sees me with another girl she gets very very jealous and insecure, if i see her with another guy i confidently treat him like a mate, and through gaming i display my higher value over him as not just a guy, but as somebody who's important to her. I always get the guys she's with sucking up to me and thinking i'm very freakin cool. On a few occasions she has asked me if i liked a guy she kissed and if i said no she'd ditch him.

She does not frustrate me, i learnt early in gaming how to control my emotions and how to not let crushes overwhelm me, i do want her, but i do not have a case of one-itis, more important things like my football, guitar and schoolwork take precedence over her, and i spend more time thinkin about other girls than her, this whole experiment i see as a massive challenge, and my life is all about conquering things that are deemed unconquerable.

 

[MacDiddy]

Yes it can be done, but the amount of effort expended far outweigh what you could achieve if you start from a fresh deck. Just keep making your move on her with the attitude that it cost you nothing out of practice.

 

[Fash]

Yes it can be done

Ofcourse it can be done! But there is a simple rule that you MUST follow to achieve the f-close.

Here it is...

You must make her feel that you are a great catch and that she will lose out if she doesn't go along with your subtle advances. What I mean is that you have to SHOW her that you are capable of picking up hot and amazing women. Even ask her to act as your pivot..... I did!

Check this out...

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=92191

Good Luck

 

[virtual_insanity]

status update: week 1, TEST: ultimate afc'ing

I pretty much upped the huge amount of sweet stuff i could do for her, cute txt's twice a day, calling her (i never call girls) having great conversations, invited her round for dinner with family (she loves em) asking her to do stuff like every day, putting our connection to the ultimate test, spent most of the nights together in bed, she even pulled my arm around her the other night, i'm not falling for it though, even if she is showing advances i have to keep playing it as if i don't care, i'm "just a friend" I left my arm there for a sec then took it away and rolled over. I could get hundreds of indications she wants me in one day but if i go for it i know she'll give me the "brother" routine again, one month of this though and i predict i might have her, the sheer amount of closeness and fun we're having together is so intense, the sexual tension is going to climax if we keep goin down this path. When she rang me last night and asked if i needed a bed buddy and i told her i couldn't cause i was on a date her reaction was gold, spent the next hour getting insecure sms's from her asking if me and her were okay, if there's anything she was doin wrong that she could do better etc...very obvious jealousy.

I think the key to the LJBF, or the special move i think is playing the jealousy card, if she sees you making other girls happy, or hears about u makin other goals melt in the bedroom, that LJBF barrier starts to form cracks, and the cracks are called intrigue, AND WOMEN ****ING LOVE INTRIGUE.

Thoroughly enjoying this experiment, i can k close out at a bar then come home and snuggle somebody i feel close to, gettin best of both worlds at the moment, very interesting times ahead.

 

[tryin 2 play]

Question: How do you fill girls in on sexual stuff or what not with other girls? I have a tough time doing this, as it feels akward sometimes, and i think it may turn them off to hear it. Afterall, i do not want to hear about what she did to some other dude, just dont wanna hear it. What do you do or say?

spent the next hour getting insecure sms's from her asking if me and her were okay, if there's anything she was doin wrong that she could do better etc...

Sounds like she already wants "you and her". She is asking if everything is ok with you two when you go out on a date, that would be something that a girl you were "seeing" or dating would say, not just a friend.

Also, do you think if you take it too slow that she will lose interest?

 

[jigga23]

I havent read any replies to your posts but heres what i say you do. Ive had girls say that sh!t to me too. Your like my brother but ill make out with you and fvck you hahah everytime im like wtf. So if you dont want that then simply just agree with her decision but just dont talk to her anymore. cause shell associate you being labeled as being friends with you not talking to her. Shell only do this if shes attracted to you though. I dont know its kind of hard to explain but just agree with her and dont give her the time of day anymore then shell probably come running back. When girls say that sh!t they just want to have you as a back up when they cant get sh!t but youve gotta sorta of nextem for the time being

 

[virtual_insanity]

Question: How do you fill girls in on sexual stuff or what not with other girls? I have a tough time doing this, as it feels akward sometimes, and i think it may turn them off to hear it. Afterall, i do not want to hear about what she did to some other dude, just dont wanna hear it. What do you do or say?

spent the next hour getting insecure sms's from her asking if me and her were okay, if there's anything she was doin wrong that she could do better etc...

Sounds like she already wants "you and her". She is asking if everything is ok with you two when you go out on a date, that would be something that a girl you were "seeing" or dating would say, not just a friend.

Also, do you think if you take it too slow that she will lose interest?

In regards to the talking about sex with other people and other stuff like that, when she points out a hot guy i don't show stress or desperation or validation like "he's not hotter than me though right?", i used to but i realised that's a huge **** test by her that i was constantly failing, because she'll say yes but on the more meaningful level i've lowered my value by asking and her saying that, now i just say "which one, oh okay yeah i see him" with no real emotion either way, then i'll continue conversation or change subject, if i see a hot girl i'll say "i really like what that girl is wearing, it looks hot", this really mind****s chicks because they are like "is he checking her out, oh no, or is he just checkin out what she's wearing, agghh" i always get the response "yeah i love that" from any girl i've used this on. There's a **** test of my own mother ****er!

We don't really talk about the sex stuff when we're with other partners, we both avoid talkin about it because we know it makes the other jealous, but when she breaks up with a boyfriend or when i break up with a girlfriend suddenly we do talk about it, a lot, and we have great convo's about sex and stuff, i don't tell her much about my stuff, because chicks love mystery and intrigue, i drop hints though, about my love of goin down on girls etc....

In regards to the losing interest, no way, it's like the poker game theory, or the tv show theory, or my favourite, the que theory.

....if you get in a que, and you're in it for maybe 20 minutes and you get ahead five or six spaces in a twenty person cue, you are thinkin "damnit i should just go........... but wait, i've already invested 20 minutes in this que i should stay ....think about that next time you're in a que for maccas or somewhere, it's like the tv show/movie, if you watch the first half no matter how bad it is, you have invested time into it so u wanna know the end.

 

[DJnomore]

Breaking the LGBF Barrier a how to guide...

There exists within this site somewhere a very good write up on how to break the LJBF barrier but I will summarize briefly based on my flawed memory of the article.

1) You need to have supream control of your balls. I mean it your head has to be calling ALL the shots.

2) You need to be doing all the DJ moves with OTHER girls, you need to be getting kissed (discreetly don't rub her nose in it) which will help with step 1.

3) Basically you give her what she wants aka your friendship but on YOUR terms. You are her special friend but you don't break dates to go hang with her. IF you are managing your DJ stuff you will have the other girls and if you have the other girls you will be desirable to her.

4) At some point get very close to her as a "friend" light physical contact etc but all within the close friends thing with no "sexual" just closeness type physical contact etc. See step 1 if you don't have step 1 you lose BIG on this step.

5) Now that you have her hooked you skip town so to speak. Break contact find other things to be doing. Don't break any dates but just don't be around for a bit. She either breaks and decides she wants more of step 4 or you didn't break the barrier. If she wants more of step 4 just explain to her that you feel that it wouldn't be right to just play around with someone you are so close to and you explain that you are happy being friend but if she wants more it has to be the whole thing and describe it on YOUR terms and then have the balls to say no if she wants more but not enought more.

The article is very good......find it if you can =)

 

[virtual_insanity]

This weeks report

Continuing the intense close friendship, for the first week i called her every single day, sometimes twice, now this week she calls me at least twice a day, we've seen eachother pretty much every day too, went out to a club and as soon as we got there i began openning sets of girls and stopped doing all the friendship stuff and just treated her like she was a normal guy mate, at first she seemed okay with it and was getting hit on by random guys, even went off with one and chatted on the couch, i let this happen and she was clearly into him so i thought i'd throw up a test, i walk confidently past her and turn as if i only just suddenly noticed her on my way, i say "hey cutie, buy me a drink" and she does, zing. I slip my around her at the bar and she's leaning into me and pressin her boobs into my chest and i know she is attracted but she still won't kiss, she's being a tease, so i throw up another demand/test and say i'm ready to go to another place and the strangest thing happened, she says she doesn't care, it's up to me she's happy to do what i want (this NEVER has happened before, she always has an opinion), i say i can't be ****ed goin anywhere i'd rather just take her home, make some toast and hot chocolate and just be outta the cold, she says she was hoping i'd say that. (this puzzles me, she knew what she wanted to do, yet she didn't say, she just left it completely up to me, is this her being in my power, i'm not sure...)

Anyway we go home, she gets outta her dress casually, she's not wearin a bra, so she's happily standin their with her breasts out for a sec before she gets into my bed, i finish makin the toast, we sit and begin watchin a movie, i'm warmin up my hands to start caressin and makin moves but after five minutes she's passed out from tiredness, so i just slip my arm around her and rest it on her boob and fall asleep, for a split second i thought "**** you should have made a move/**** you could have ****ed her tonight" but i stopped myself and erased it, because that's the path to one-itis.

My analysis so far:
If you have THAT much faith in your one-itis that you think you two DO compliment eachother, you MUST have 100% confidence in that to push it to the limits, if she can't do that with you then you are probably ignoring all the things between u that don't work, i'm saying if a girl LJBF's you, there may be a very ****in good reason she did so and you should take a loot at your connection with the girl before u think u should invest any more effort in her, BECAUSE SHE MAY NOT BE SO AWESOME FOR YOU AS YOUR MIND LETS YOU THINK.

I am following strict rules
1. I don't talk about us, period
2. I don't talk about me sexin other girls, if it is brought up i change subject
3. I don't get involved as her emotional tampon, i let her be mine first, then she can dump on me (juggler effort/reward for those ASF fanboys)

I am seeing progress, i am moving from being a brother figure to a sexual being (you don't rub your boobs on your brother do ya). The key thing is my reality, my head, she belongs in my arms, i am not her brother, i do not want to be her brother, i am not going to treat her like my sister, and i am not going to be treated like her brother. Now, prior to this test i had tried this path before, but directly and it did not work, you cannot say "BUT I'M NOT YOUR BROTHER" because all this attraction bull**** is on a level far below any verbal language we can use. When she gets out of the car, i open the door for her and pull her out by her hand like a gentleman, but i slide my hand across the small of her back as she passes by me, when i hug her i grab her bum and lift her up and pull her legs around me, i kiss her often, on the cheek/neck etc... Seeing is not believing, BELIEVING is seeing. If your beliefs are more powerful than somebody elses they will be compelled to believe them................

**** as i write that i make a sudden observation

When a girl LJBF you, it's because she has all the power, you cannot get past that LJBF because when you have one-itis on a girl that LJBF you, it means you have given her ALL THE POWER, you want her, desperately. When a girl LJBF's you, you instantly take on the belief that she doesn't want you, so she doesn't, you are at 0 power, so at that moment you are sucked in to her beliefs, what u need to do is suck her into your beliefs and u can't do this by pleading/buying her gifts/being a "REALLY GREAT FRIEND" you do it by just BEING more than a friend, keep flirting with her, keep at it, when she LJBF'S ya, you are sucked into a very bad belief system


This is a belief system of:

- She doesnt want me i am doing something wrong
- I am not up to a certain standard i need to be for her to like me
- I cannot get her because she sees me as JUST A FRIEND

If YOU have the belief that SHE SEES YOU AS JUST A FRIEND then that's what's going to FREAKIN HAPPEN. But if u have the belief system more of

- She doesn't want me yet but she will, because i am not her friend, i am a male who wants to have sex with her, and that is how i will always act
- I am at a certain standard where she sees me as a friend, nothing more, this will change because i believe she can and will want me if i continue to be a man about it
- I will get her because i am not her friend, i am somebody who wants to kiss her/hold her/enjoy life with her

If you believe so strongly in the idea that you two should be together and act like it no matter what, she will eventually be sucked into it, but it only works if u have 100% confidence in it. Let's have a look at situations where this belief system is the complete opposite of what LJBF victims are doing today.


* you go to kiss her
her: sorry, i just like u as a friend
you (desperate): but we work so well together/aw but i really like you/won't u at least give it a shot, can't u imagine how good it is

now, what you should do

* you go to kiss her
her: sorry, i just like u as a friend
you(smiling, unphased): yeah i like you as a friend too, so what you up to later this week/so u wanna grab something to eat/hey we should go see a movie or something later this week (later that week u keep flirting with her like the friend comment meant nothing to you, you believe this girl should want u, so if u act cool and calm about that and act like she does want you, she will eventually want you, but ONLY if u have 100% confidence in yourself.

I believe the only problem with this is to have 100% confidence in yourself you have to completely erase any outcomes you want with this girl and consider her as just something that may or may not happen that is of little importance to you unless something does happen.

 

[tryin 2 play]

^^^ cool thread. I'm working on a similar situation, only its a friend from highschoo, that i havnt seen in 2 years. kissed her very briefly last time i was with her. I'm working on it slowly. Your thread and attitudes towards this girl are really helpful. Keep us posted please!

 

[virtual_insanity]

small update, i got a phone call from her this evenning, it was the "hi.....i dunno why i called, i think i just um.....i just wanted to talk to you i think, i wanted to hear the sound of your voice"

i told her i found it incredibly cute, but i was at the gym and would have to talk to her another time, maybe come round after the night out with the boys... shawish......anyway.....

....this is a clear sign she's swooning over me right? i think it is, is this progress, i don't know, we'll see, i still don't believe this will/won't work, just a big test at the moment, i seem to be happier though for havin a close friendship with somebody, having her close has improved my game with other girls at least tenfold, i'm twice as confident, and when chicks hear about her or see her photos in my phone they get insta protective about me, so haphazardly chasing her while goin after other girls seems to be complimenting each other, who would have thought!

 

[blueguy]

LJBF is nothing other than having too little value, too high attainability and little or no compliance. It means nothing and can usually be turned around if she considered you a potential mate in the beginning.

Just read through your long post...

The confidence and transference of the "destiny" belief from you to her is 100% correct... BUT...

There is one thing you are doing wrong. You are not acting like a prize. LJBF does come sometimes because she sees you as non-sexual, but other times it comes because she sees you as non-powerful (beta), specifically in the world of women. You are too available to her - calling several times a day. She needs to see you or hear about you with other women as has been suggested previously. Women want the most coveted, powerful man they can find. Seeing other women will COVERTLY change your vocabulary so that even if she doesn't see you with these other women, she KNOWS you're a coveted prize and WANTS you. She doesn't want something given to her. You can still continue to desire her, but she will begin to desire you as well because she wants you but cannot yet have you. If you continue to push so hard consistently for her, even if you add sexuality, and let her know that you want her and only her, you will ruin everything and stay a friend. She will think she is the best you can get. She won't want you. You will have to start all over again. Been there...

Attraction defined:
1. Value
2. Attainability
3. Compliance

Your value to her is too low. You're increasing it with the sexuality though. Good job. You can increase it again by making her see you as somebody who is coveted. Your attainability is there. Good. But it is too high. Calling her so much is decreasing your value. Back off a little. Compliance is your biggest problem. What is SHE doing to earn YOU?

She has to compete, man.

-----------

The last phone call is good, but it sounds like a sh!t test (whether she knows it or not) that she is throwing at you to find out how crazy you are about her (in other words, to find out how valuable/powerful you are). If you give in, your value will plummet. She will see you as a piece of sh!t in the world of women. You've known her for so long. Act as if it never happened.