Should I bulk or cut first?

[Timdog]

I'm 19, 5'6, 170ish pounds. I have a VERY stocky frame, really wide shoulders, thick legs, etc. Probably the Polish in me. I have fat around my stomach and slight moobs and I have fat in my face but that's genetic (I had it when I was really skinny).


I'm tired of people treating me like I'm 15/16 since I look like I'm that old. I think the only thing I can do at this point is bulk up.

I used to run XC and track in HS so I'm used to working very hard (we were a state champ team in XC though I was back of the pack in JV races I still worked out really hard). I still want to race occasionally, but getting muscle and getting more attention from the ladies is more important to me now.

So, what should I do first, cut to get rid of the fat I currently have or just start bulking up then cut it all later? I'm VERY weak right now though I'm in decent cardiovascular shape since I run at least 30 mins a day. My legs are pretty large but my arms are very small.

 

[nateistoraw]

Your Body Mass Index is 27.44(Overweight)

Source used for calculation:
http://prodigygm.com/bmi_c.html

 

[CaptainJ]

BMI is a stupid measure, since it does not take into account muscle weight. Bodyfat % is a better measure. If I were you I'd bulk up, that excess fat will give you more enrgy to feed the muscle and will get burnt in the process.

 

[Maxtro]

Interesting, you're the same height as me and you're at my goal weight. Though from your post you seem to have a lot more fat than I do. I'm currently 157 at 21% BF.

My plan is to hit 170 while adding as little fat as possible, then try and cut my BF down to 15% or so then try to go for that 6-pack.

In your case you should first get your BF measured. If it's over 30%, which I think it is you still want to gain muscle but you want to be more selective in your diet. You'd also want to do more cardio then somebody who strictly wants to bulk would.

 

[Timdog]

I'm thinking about cutting down to 150 and then start to bulk up. Since I don't do any lifting right now, will I gain muscle while cutting?

 

[Maxtro]

As long as you are lifting you will gain muscle while cutting but not at the same rate as somebody who is strictly bulking.

The best way to burn fat is to lift, do cardio and eat smart.

If you aren't lifting then I doubt you will gain muscle. You might get some if you do body-weight exercises; pushups, pullups, dips etc. But it just makes more sense to start lifting.

 

[Colossus]

I'm thinking about cutting down to 150 and then start to bulk up. Since I don't do any lifting right now, will I gain muscle while cutting?

No.

You can maintain muscle while cutting, but if you want to put on appreciable muscle mass you need to do it properly and bulk up. It IS possible to do a fairly lean bulk, but you will still add some fluid and fat weight. The leveling factor is that the new muscle mass you are building will offset the small amount of bulk weight, aesthetically speaking.

 

[The Asian Lover]

Always bulk first. Why?

Muscle burns more calories. That's why it's easier for guys to lose weight, while women tend to struggle more with weight loss.

Once you reach a good size, then you can cut.

 

[blinkwatt101]

Or you can just eat perfectly clean and healthy and turn into a machine and within a year you will be lean and with a proper lifting schedule, muscley.

 

[jaygettinbig89]

Its coming to winter again, i'd say go on a CLEAN bulk with the occasional junk food every saturday.

 

[Wynston]

I'd say it doesn't really matter, look at it this way..

If you bulk you will get bigger, you will put fat on..FACT!! (unless you take an androgen like a steroid! some comments have been that if you bulk you will have more muscle which makes it easier to burn fat (very true) - if you can deal with being a bit fatter for a while then bulk, but do it slowly and carefully, dont have the preconception that natural bodybuilders eat everything in sight to gain muscle, that's just for the juicers and the genetically unique... Eat clean low GI carbs in the day and high GI carbs after training slam the protein, keep fats moderate and cycle your carbs (eat less in the week and more on the weekend)

If you are goin to cut first then, you will have an appreciation of what your muscles look like but also you will lose muscle and become smaller, again you can do this slowly and there are supplements on the market that reduce catabolism of the muscle while depleted...carb cycle again with very low carb in the week and high on the weekend...

nonetheless it is up to you !! I've been in your situation and found that cutting is the best because I managed to keep my muscle, plus I didnt feel comfortble with more weight on me, and was out of breath!! but as long as you are careful both ways will take you out of the middle situation..

All the best man!!!
Mike PT

 

[servo1234567]

This bulk and cut stuff is complete BS. If you've got weight on you like that then you are probably an endomorph--a person who puts on muscle and fat pretty easily. So if I were you I would start a full body lifting routine with lots of compound exercises. Cut out all sugar, alcohol, and eat minimal carbs at the beginning of the day. On alternating days do interval running. You won't have any problems. If anything, you'll probably look bigger when you've shed the weight. If, at the end of this you feel you're too little you can raise your caloric intake to something that is about maintenance and gain muscle quickly because you are an endomorph. Don't let anybody sell you any crap about supplements or radical stuff. Getting lean is simple. Not easy, but simple.

 

[EBickford]

dont bulk, cuz you are just adding more carbs which equals more fat, which you dont want.

just clean up your diet, and keep working out. find the workout regiment of say a sprinter, or some other explosive athlete. cuz you will lose a ton of fat, and gain some serious muscle. look at sprinters- explosive as all hell, low bf, and great musclarity

 

[The Message Boy]

I'm 19, 5'6, 170ish pounds. I have a VERY stocky frame, really wide shoulders, thick legs, etc. Probably the Polish in me. I have fat around my stomach and slight moobs and I have fat in my face but that's genetic (I had it when I was really skinny).

From my experience, I wouldn't get caught up in the genetics myth. Most of the time the stuff is made up by people who are giving up on their weight loss goals or who don't understand the fundamentals. I will explain more shortly. Lol, just because my dad was FAT doesn't mean I am nor I have to be. What a myth.

I used to run XC and track in HS so I'm used to working very hard (we were a state champ team in XC though I was back of the pack in JV races I still worked out really hard). I still want to race occasionally, but getting muscle and getting more attention from the ladies is more important to me now.

Great so you are used to Cardio.

So, what should I do first, cut to get rid of the fat I currently have or just start bulking up then cut it all later? I'm VERY weak right now though I'm in decent cardiovascular shape since I run at least 30 mins a day. My legs are pretty large but my arms are very small.

Well this is just my take. There's no such thing as only doing ONE at a time (cutting or building muscle), because if you have a complete and comprehensive program you should be building muscle and burning fat at the same time. Plus the more lean muscle you have the muscle itself starts to burn off fat.

I have a thread out right now where I post my current diet: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=165232

Once you get the fundamentals right then you can start to get more advanced. I would:

> Change your eating lifestyle
> Change the way you lift weights or do resistance training
> Change the way you do cardio
> Get the right supplements and vitamins

In my opinion those are the fundamentals. Now, what specific foods should you eat? What specific weight exercises should you do? What types of cardio would work best for you?

Those questions I think you will come up with through your own personal experimentation.

Where I would start is to read the ABS Diet from Men's Health to get the basic overview of how to eat and then you can create your own way of eating that's healthy. I wouldn't focus on DIETS because what's the point of doing something only for a short period of time, and then you get off of it and gain all the weight back? I think the POINT is to change your eating lifestyle not do crash diets.

For example, the ATKINS diet. WHO really can go the rest of their life not eating any carbs or not eating that many carbs?? I mean come on. But surely you can limit the amount of bad carbs you consume and fill up on the good ones, again reading that ABS DIET book from Men's Health will give you the eating basics.

Then you can go to bodybuilding.com to get more information on various exercises. Me personally, for some reason I get better definition and results from resistance training with cables for some reason, but you can experiment with which exercises work the best for you.

Same with cardio. Now some people are against doing alot of cardio cause they say it burns off muscle, well for me personally, my cardio doesn't burn my muscle off I just get more defined. I do interval cardio, where I go fast for a minute and then it slows and then it goes fast again. I do this on the Stairmaster, one of the most difficult cardio machines there is. I go for 1 hour and my average speed is about 55-60 mp which is PRETTY fast for the Stairmaster. I've been going for one day a week but I'm kicking it up to 3 days.

For supplements, I think the best quality and priced supplements are at Vitamin World: www.vitaminworld.com and Vita Cost www.vitacost.com. GNC is very expensive even considering their Gold Card program. You will get more quality, more bang for your buck at the two I recommended. I don't think you need fat burners or anything like that, what I would get is:

> A good men's multi-vitamin
> A good omega 3 fish oil
> A good green tea extract
> A good protein shake (pay attention because some of these shakes are junk. I use bodyfortress: www.bodyfortress.com)


I wouldn't count calories if I was you because again, it's about changing your lifestyle NOT crash diets. Are you going to count calories for the REST of your life? Probably not. But of COURSE you can eat about 5 meals a day and majority of those meals being nutritious grilled meals that you enjoy with perhaps one small bad meal a day.

Those are the fundamentals in my opinion from my experience in doing this.

>> You build muscle and You burn fat

>> You change your lifestyle so you can KEEP doing this for the rest of your life and not some crash diet or exercise program that you can't stay on.

 

[The Asian Lover]

The guys I see in the gym that struggle to gain muscle are the ones that try to bulk and cut at the same time.

Doesn't happen. Humans have evolved to store fat, having a lot of muscle is a liability in times of famine. Survival is the body's prime imperative.

We forget this in our modern western societies. Go to a third world country. Everyone is skinny!

Ignore your conception of the perfect body. The guys with massive muscles and insane cuts use steroids.

If you want size, then you have to accept the fact that you will carry some fat, especially around the midsection.

If you want to be cut, then you have to accept the fact that you will be smaller.

 

[blinkwatt101]

Humans have evolved to store fat?..............humans have developed horrible eating habits as time has gone on. It's all about who can make the cheapest hamburgers now.

Dude just learn to eat healthy before trying to lose 'x' pounds and trust me,you'll learn to mold your physique before your eyes. If your body and mind isn't healthy and clean you won't be able to shape yourself as you'd like.

 

[The Message Boy]

The guys I see in the gym that struggle to gain muscle are the ones that try to bulk and cut at the same time. Doesn't happen. Humans have evolved to store fat, having a lot of muscle is a liability in times of famine. Survival is the body's prime imperative.

Yes, it's true that the body goes into survival mode and stores fat for energy to be used later. However, what does this have to do with bulking and cutting at the same time? The fact of the matter is that what makes you "cut" is eating properly, doing the cardio the right way, and regular exercising. What makes you "bulk" or "bigger" is from lifting and trying to lift more weights then you did the previous session.

You should be doing all three (right eating, right cardio, lifting weights) at the same time all the time. What this ultimately leads you to is losing fat, losing weight, and building muscle at the same time which means technically you are cutting and bulking.

Ignore your conception of the perfect body. The guys with massive muscles and insane cuts use steroids.

I don't think anybody is trying to look like a pro wrestler. But that doesn't mean a guy can't have a great body with great definition, great muscle mass, low body fat, and clear, hard, visible abs without taking steroids. Where do you get your information??

If you want size, then you have to accept the fact that you will carry some fat, especially around the midsection. If you want to be cut, then you have to accept the fact that you will be smaller.

This is so not true. Where do you get your information? I've talked to guys in the gym that weigh around 220 to 240 that are lean, defined, and toned with their 6 packs showing. Ultimately, each individual's body is different, some people are better small then big, but ultimately it's the body fat that will really bring out the cuts. Once the body fat is low, assuming you continue to lift weights trying to increase the amount of weights you are lifting with eash session, you will STILL get big and gain muscle mass despite the low bodyfat. Meaning, again, that you will be cutting and bulking (building more muscle) at the same time.

 

[The Asian Lover]

Yes, it's true that the body goes into survival mode and stores fat for energy to be used later. However, what does this have to do with bulking and cutting at the same time? The fact of the matter is that what makes you "cut" is eating properly, doing the cardio the right way, and regular exercising. What makes you "bulk" or "bigger" is from lifting and trying to lift more weights then you did the previous session.

You should be doing all three (right eating, right cardio, lifting weights) at the same time all the time. What this ultimately leads you to is losing fat, losing weight, and building muscle at the same time which means technically you are cutting and bulking.




I don't think anybody is trying to look like a pro wrestler. But that doesn't mean a guy can't have a great body with great definition, great muscle mass, low body fat, and clear, hard, visible abs without taking steroids. Where do you get your information??




This is so not true. Where do you get your information? I've talked to guys in the gym that weigh around 220 to 240 that are lean, defined, and toned with their 6 packs showing. Ultimately, each individual's body is different, some people are better small then big, but ultimately it's the body fat that will really bring out the cuts. Once the body fat is low, assuming you continue to lift weights trying to increase the amount of weights you are lifting with eash session, you will STILL get big and gain muscle mass despite the low bodyfat. Meaning, again, that you will be cutting and bulking (building more muscle) at the same time.

No, what makes you bigger is the amount of calories that you take in. Muscle growth is impossible without the increase in caloric intake. That is why you can't bulk and cut at the same time.

Take a good look at the pictures on my blog, http://gainmusclebody.com
That used to be me, a skinny guy with a potbelly that was a hard gainer. I graduated from Northern Illinois University and studied kinesiology. I've worked as a personal trainer for 7 years and have my own personal training business. I have helped clients from all walks of life achieve great results. My education and hard earned experience is where I get my information.

240lbs lean and ripped? How tall is the guy? 6'4 or 5'8?

 

[The Message Boy]

I've worked as a personal trainer for 7 years and have my own personal training business. I have helped clients from all walks of life achieve great results. My education and hard earned experience is where I get my information.

No disrespect but that's why I don't use personal trainers. Because what I've LEARNED from trial and error is that there's no set program for anybody and different people have different responses.

However, instead Personal Trainers tend to say, "This is the program you must do," then one year later when the results suck the personal trainers say, "Well, it must just be your genetics." Bull**** lol.

No, what makes you bigger is the amount of calories that you take in. Muscle growth is impossible without the increase in caloric intake. That is why you can't bulk and cut at the same time.

See again, another reason I don't use personal trainers. You are confusing Muscle growth with WEIGHT growth. I can gain WEIGHT from eating more calories that doesn't mean I'm gaining MUSCLE. I can eat the right amoutn of calories each day that I need to eat while at the same time continuing to lift heavy. It's the lifting and the eating right that makes my muscles build, grow, and lean, increasing my CALORIES just adds weight to everything which makes me overall bulky looking not really muscular/defined looking. It's like building up lean muscle but eating more calories to put fat over it, what's the point??

For example, in your videos, I would say you look more bulky then toned/muscular/defined. I can post my pics to if you want, but don't get me wrong at all this is just a discussion and in no way am I trying to talk crap about you or anything, it's great that you are out here getting guys off their asses and into the gym. Hell if you workout PERIOD these days it's a plus for long-term health. I just disagree with you on the fundamentals.

240lbs lean and ripped? How tall is the guy? 6'4 or 5'8?

I've seen alot of guys like this, they are taller than me. I'm about 5'10 so they are at least 6 feet plus.

 

[blinkwatt101]

Message Boy is on it.

How you eat makes you cut. Cardio is 2nd for losing weight,I personally use to filter stuff from my heart.

How you lift and your desire to push for another rep,or 2.5Lbs or whatever is what allows you the opportunity to gain muscle.

Yes,I will agree. Most personal trainers don't know much. They went to school. Look at SDSU graduates,the school is know for Kinesology majors...so you'd think a lot of them have the know how and have great physiques right? Wrong. Most just look like normal kids and some of them are the 'big biceps' dudes...that I laugh at in the gym.

Calories just makes people more confused,instead people should spend their time learning how to eat properly and care more for the ingredients in their food. Learn your body and health before anything else is the key.

There was no such thing as 'bulking' and 'cutting' back in the day. Notice there are never any pics of Arnold or Franco looking fat? There are some of them bloated,watch Conan at the famous scene where Arnold swings the sword. But never in a 'bulk' phase.