She sees me like a "nice older brother" - Can I ever get out of this space?

[deuce42]

Hi guys

Some advice would be so appreciated.

The title says it all - can I ever get into a better place?

Heres my story: I work with this girl - I know the workplace is a bad disaster in itself but just hear me out At first I think she thought I was a bit ****y and smart arsed with everything. I am a few years older than her and used to tease and make fun of her a lot and generally be a bit cheeky with her. She was hot but I never acknowledged this fact to her because I thought she was a bit boring and my ego wouldn't allow me to seem like one of the squillion guys out there who would try and hit on her.

Some two years of working together allowed us to get to know each other and one day I realised that she was so kind and considerate of me and I was totally in love with her. Besides being a smart arse to her, I have protected and assisted her with her personal issues in life and work and have generally offered some wisdom and support when she needed it. I know she sees that I am a nice guy under my smart arse exterior.

Now the clincher, - she told another person at work that I am "a nice big brother to her". I know enough to know this is a disaster if a chick sees you this way.

So here is my question - am I totally finished then? Can you ever get out of "nice older brother " land and into potential date territory? Can anyone offer me any hope. Is it at all possible??

Kindest and thanks for any advice offered
deuce

 

[Igetit!]

Hi guys

Some advice would be so appreciated.

The title says it all - can I ever get into a better place?

Heres my story: I work with this girl - I know the workplace is a bad disaster in itself but just hear me out At first I think she thought I was a bit ****y and smart arsed with everything. I am a few years older than her and used to tease and make fun of her a lot and generally be a bit cheeky with her. She was hot but I never acknowledged this fact to her because I thought she was a bit boring and my ego wouldn't allow me to seem like one of the squillion guys out there who would try and hit on her.

Some two years of working together allowed us to get to know each other and one day I realised that she was so kind and considerate of me and I was totally in love with her. Besides being a smart arse to her, I have protected and assisted her with her personal issues in life and work and have generally offered some wisdom and support when she needed it. I know she sees that I am a nice guy under my smart arse exterior.

Now the clincher, - she told another person at work that I am "a nice big brother to her". I know enough to know this is a disaster if a chick sees you this way.

Nope,I'm afraid you're done for my friend.

You said that you've worked with this girl for the past two years. If she sees you as a "big brother",then I take it you never bothered to ask her out in all that time.


To be sexually interested in a guy,a woman needs to feel chemistry/feel like a "woman" in his presense.


Seems to me like she just feels like you're a friend. She hasn't felt any sort of romantic energy from you in the whole two years you've known her,so her emotions have adjusted accordingly.



It's too late. She can't just instantly have romantic feelings for you because you one day all of the sudden decided you like her.



This "big brother" feeling she has for you developed over the past 2 years,so I don't see it going away overnight just because you want to date her now.

So here is my question - am I totally finished then? Can you ever get out of "nice older brother " land and into potential date territory? Can anyone offer me any hope. Is it at all possible??

Well,there's over 60,000 members here and I'm sure some of them will say you can,but I say no.



I think it's over with,has been for some time now.



You can only do what you can do. If you want to ask her out,you can,but she'll probably feel like she wants to vomit because (to her),it'll feel like her brother's coming on to her.




This should be a lesson.


WHATEVER IT WAS you did or didn't do around her for the last two years is what got you here in this situation.



So now you should at least know how to avoid this again in the future.

 

[1337]

no never its a pipedream getting with her you have no chance at all brother is worst than friend zone.She would rather get in a relationship with her enemies than you.Sorry boss but move on next time don't be a bigger bro to other chicks theres no gain from it.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

If being put in the friends zone is the kiss of death, being called "like my older brother" is just plain death. A friend at least has a chance to get her in bed, under the right circumstances, even if very small. A brother will never bed her.

Women make those type of comments when somebody is inquiring about the status with guys. For example, somebody probably told her, "Hey ,what's going on between you and deuce42? He seems to like you." So she responde "he's like an older brother", the person knows what that means.

As stated above, you dug your own grave for 2 long years with this one. You comitted suicide on the 2 year installment plan, and now you will pay, WITH INTEREST. You are her smart a$s, ****y and funny older brother who protects her, gives her advice, and listens to her problems. You miss the playful banter with stuff that emotional tampon type of guys do. That cancels out any attraction you were attempting with your wit and humor.

 

[slaog]

The only thing you can do is test the water a little. Be more sexual around her and this will get her thinking dirrerently of you. Touch her a little and see if she's comfortable with that. If she is then touch her some more.


Don't rush things just do it slowly and get her thinking about the both of you togethar.


Its likely that you've been friendzoned and won't be getting out of that so don't get your hopes up. If you improve yourself over time people will begin to see you differently. This takes time though and effort. In the meantime you can be concentrating on hobbies and other women.

 

[horaholic]

Just learn what not to do with other women. Read the dj bible on the bottom of the page, and you'll be sure to never make that mistake again.

Thats the natural order of things. Guy and girl hang out a lot. Sometimes guy is too much of a wuss to make a move, sometimes the guy isnt interested right away. Girl see's guy as friend and treats him like a girlfriend. This makes guy feel like she's his girlfriend too, thus developing deep feelings, resulting in in a downward spiral of oneitis/false-friendship/headaches for you.

Ironically, the best chance for this girl to see you as more than a friend, is to cut contact, and see many other women, in which case, you wont be hung up on her anymore anyway.

Also, remember that us guys would love a GF that acts like a friend, like your girl does. But... if you were dating her, she would NOT act like that, so the very things people see in their chickfriend/oneitis, is the things they cant have if they actually were in a real relationship. Remember that.

So, read the DJ bible here, and turn yourself into someone chicks want to date, and date other chicks. Forget about this girl. It s VERY rare that guys hook up with girls like this. It is possible, but so is winning the lottery or getting struck by lightning.

 

[Tyson420]

To be honest, I can't even think of a way to escape that.

To me there is a scale of how she feels her relationship is to you.

Boyfriend - WHERE YOU WANT TO BE

Friend - Fairly easy to escape

Good friend - You're almost ****ed, my friend. Escapable.

Big brother - You're ****ed. Use her as a Wing instead.

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

Maybe if you showed up to work in a brand new Corvette with 20 year olds crawling out of your ears...

Nah, Game Over.

 

[Joe Stud]

The guys are right, 95% chance it's over. However if you want to play the game out...let her see you hanging with other hb8's. Be less available. Dress & smell good. If she needs to "talk to you" or "get your advice", tell her she will have to come to the bar you are hanging out at. Then, if you have a HB8 female friend, have her play as your "loose" date for the night. Let the 2 girls commiserate about you a bit. Change the frame. If you get her buzzed, kino her lightly. But again, it's a shot in the dark.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

The guys are right, 95% chance it's over. However if you want to play the game out...let her see you hanging with other hb8's. Be less available. Dress & smell good. If she needs to "talk to you" or "get your advice", tell her she will have to come to the bar you are hanging out at. Then, if you have a HB8 female friend, have her play as your "loose" date for the night. Let the 2 girls commiserate about you a bit. Change the frame. If you get her buzzed, kino her lightly. But again, it's a shot in the dark.

5% chance? Now, that's a lot of work to put in just to go after this specific one, with such a small chance. That would clearly imply who the price is in this situation. That's a very poor frame to work behind. All that work, time and energy could be better spent prospecting, planting the seeds, and working on 10 different new ones.

 

[Joe Stud]

1) the DJ says "im totally in love with her", and asks "am I TOTALLY finished"?
that was the question. and the answer is no. He has a very small chance.
2) I prefaced my advice with "However, if you want to play the game out"...
3) I dont think "thats a lot of work" to text her back and say "you have to come to the bar I'm hanging out at if you want my advice".
4) Then I if she decides to come, and IF you have a female friend there, grab the female friend over for the little charade.

It's networking and social valuing. also it's making a boring night a bit more interesting.

You must read the IF's my friend, there are lots of them. and personally, I have seen guys do a helluva lot more "work" to make cold calls on strange chicks... meanwhile this chick is already comfortable with him. so maybe the little extra work will get her in the sack.

Remember, he's out partying anyway, and sargin/spinning plates. This is just a little extra shot he's taking, again for a chick he's in love with.

In short... the answer is yes, about a 5% chance.

 

[deuce42]

Guys thanks very much for your responses.

I hear you loud and clear. I have screwed up and have learn't a big lesson from this already.

I have no choice now but to move onto other chicks but may just take a shot on that 5% knowing that those are pretty poor odds.

Thanks for your wisdon

You guys know your stuff.

 

[Igetit!]

I have no choice now but to move onto other chicks but may just take a shot on that 5% knowing that those are pretty poor odds.

So even though you think you only have a 5% chance at dating this girl,you still plan on pursing her.

Wow,you most be desperate,lol.


So what you do plan to do to make this girl like you? Because whatever it is,it'll have to overcome the "brotherly" feelings she's spent the past 2 years developing.




I personally think it's a waste of time,but hey,it's not my time,so have at it.



I'm just curious to here this strategy of yours. If you pull this off,then the cure for the friendzone will have just been discovered.

 

[deuce42]

Ok so let me start by saying I realise I am effectivey dead with this one and am clearly going to move to other ladies.

That being said, with my 5% lottery ticket and just for the sake of giving it a go, here was the strategy someone suggested - yes may be crap but here it is -

She goes on leave from work in a couple of days. Just before she leaves I tell her some loose line showing some sexual interest in her and wait for her to either puke or be extremely awkward and uncomfortable after I say it. I wait for the awkward moment and then just casually leave. When she returns I bust on her casually and jokingly about her reaction. I do this by asking her with a really confused but smart arse look on my face why she reacted so badly to my innocent comment and I query whther she read anything into it that she shouldn't have?

I then keep busting on her about how much she must be into me if that was her reaction and progressivly over time will keep dropping lines like "judging from your awkward reaction that time its clear your in love with me, but dont keep fighting it babe". If I keep doing this maybe there is a glimmer of hope the sexual tension will build.

It may spark some sort of interest in her. I accept it may also make me look like the biggest retard ever and could crash big time. Either way, as we know my chances are pretty non existent anyway. That being said, having had some pretty hot girlfriends when I was a younger guy (Im 35 now), I know that some chicks are worth a fight or embarrassing yourself over. I am realistic however, and not deluding myself . I accept my chances are crap. And once again thanks for all your advice guys - I wish I had as much insight.

 

[Energizer]

Why do people plan what "they are going to do, or what they are going to say?" - It's ridiculous to be honest, and no matter how much you plan something, it never usually pans out the way you want it to.

"judging from your awkward reaction that time its clear your in love with me, but dont keep fighting it babe" - I have said something stupid things to women in my short life span, but this almost made me vomit. That's pathetic dude really and there is a good chance she will avoid you if and when you tell her you like her. She could feel that you deliberately became her friend and became close to her to get into her pretty pink panties and will be hurt by this and dissolve your friendship. Of course going into work will be tough and continued persistence with cheesy lines that will no doubt make her vomit and land you in hot water with a sexual harrassment charge.

Bon appetit.

 

[deuce42]

Ok Energizer and you other guys I am heeding your advice and will drop the idea of this girl honestly.

But if you guys could offer me some advice for next time and tell me where I went wrong in this situation I would really appreciate it. What should I have done instead to ensure this doesn't happen? I know this site is full of info on what DJ are supposed to do but I am talking about THIS actual situation if it arises again. Please just cut me some slack by hearing me out in this post and let me tell you the background in case I meet the same sort of girl again and also so that you can feel where I am coming from.

When she first started at work I thought she was hot and I was my usual ****y smart arse self just becuase that is my nature. Even when I wasnt being a smart arse to her I noticed she was repulsed by my ****y playful antics with other people I interacted with. She is a very shy quiet girl and one of those girls who has no expression on her face. You simply cannot read her. Then I started to notice other guys who were ****y and smart arsed, the sort of guys that are acknowledged PUA's also seemed to repulse her. Whenever these over confident sort of guys would talk to her she would close up and get very uncomfortable. She would then tell everyone around her how she could never deal with guys like this. I realised she only had female friends and was totally always mistrustful of all guys.

So realising that ****y and smart wasn't going to go well and frankly becuase I didn't want to be disliked by a co-worker, I tried another tactic and became a nice guy to her. It took a good 12 months for her to be able to relax and trust me. I still teased and behaved silly to her but would be gentle, caring and nuturing with real issues for her. The end result, I now ended up as her "nice big brother"!

Now I can accept that maybe she just plain wasn't interested in me and you cant have every girl in this world. I accept this may be all there is to it. But is there something else that I did/didn't do which ruined it or could I have made it work by doing anything else?

I feel that any nuturing kindness to her would have eventually come out anyway since I am nine years older than her but I am also not just some total wussbag geeky 35 year old. In my twenties I played rock guitar in a moderately successful band and had more than my share of ladies. Was this just a situation that I could never win, was she just not interested in me or was it me that screwed up?

Thanks in advance if your not still puking.

 

[slaog]

Deuce, when you like a girl its hard not to put them on pedestals. When guys put girls on pedestals its always alot more clear to the girls then what the guys think. Can you think of any AFC things you have done? Like I said you might not notice them but she would.


Guys get friendzoned because they're not sexual with women. They act like the womens friends and therefore thats how the women see them.


I've found that theres no need to be ****y all the time. Maybe in a joking manner but guys who are ****y all the time usually are covering some insecurities or something. In other words its an act alot of the time so naturally its annoying for some people.


There's always a chance of something happening but its a small chance. Girl friends have been turned into girlfriends in the past so its not impossible. This usually happens when the guys are viewed as being of high value. Thats why its important to work on yourself.


The best thing to do for your sanity is to forget about this girl. You can try some DJ skills on her etc but don't invest anything emotionally in her. If you are going to try something never use words always actions. Hold eye contact a little longer etc.

 

[Joe Stud]

Geez this guy must be a doctor or a lawyer. everyone so worried about him "wasting his valuble time". Deuce, you asked opinions about your chances, and you got it. Now being educated, if you still feel like throwing in a sexual comment here & there (to a girl who cares about you, and has known you to already be ****y/smart a$$ed for years), I see no biggie with you wasting 5 minutes. You are already at work anyway. Here's the important part: spin other plates, and dont obsess on her. Keep us informed, my friend

 

[Gangster Of Love]

1) the DJ says "im totally in love with her", and asks "am I TOTALLY finished"?
that was the question. and the answer is no. He has a very small chance.
2) I prefaced my advice with "However, if you want to play the game out"...
3) I dont think "thats a lot of work" to text her back and say "you have to come to the bar I'm hanging out at if you want my advice".
4) Then I if she decides to come, and IF you have a female friend there, grab the female friend over for the little charade.

It's networking and social valuing. also it's making a boring night a bit more interesting.

You must read the IF's my friend, there are lots of them. and personally, I have seen guys do a helluva lot more "work" to make cold calls on strange chicks... meanwhile this chick is already comfortable with him. so maybe the little extra work will get her in the sack.

Remember, he's out partying anyway, and sargin/spinning plates. This is just a little extra shot he's taking, again for a chick he's in love with.

In short... the answer is yes, about a 5% chance.

My friend, I did read the IFs, so don't take my response personally; you are being extremely generous with that 5% assesment. Where do you come up with those stats? No wonder he's actually thinking about pursuing. The fact that he's "totally in love with her" practically evaporates any chance, as he would need to be indiferent in order for that tactic to work in that type of social environment you pointed out; indiferent to her is something he is not at this point. I don't suggest he approach anybody cold or anything else. I suggest he not spend his time and effort on such a bad investment/stock.

And I was not disagreeing with you nor pointing out that 5% stat to you, but to the OP; Was just pointing out how those were not very good odds to begin with. "IF" he already has friends to meet him at bars, he must already have at least a few people he doesn't have to approach COLD and make a move on. Yes, she's already comfortable with him, however, IF he actually decides to pursue this one, she will feel really creeped out by being hit on by her "older brother", and will stop feeling confortable around him very fast.

And NO, I am not worried about him wasting his valuable time. The thing is, he is not just wasting 5 minutes of his time, he thinks about this one at least one time per day, and sometiemes the thought lasts the entire day. He is wasting more than just 5 minutes if he chooses to keep going at it. He will be going through more of that frustration.

Anyway Deuce, all the best on whatever you do, seems you already decided. Keep us posted, and whatever outcome, learn as much as you can.

 

[Joe Stud]

Yes gangster, you have some very valid points, that even I didnt consider. I guess thats why "2 brains are better than one, and 3 better than 2, etc).
Thanks for your expertise sir. and... good luck either way deuce