She says she should abstain till marriage

[startingFresh]

Just an update for you guys, we haven't had a chance to sit down and talk about everything. She is currently travelling right now for work and I wont be around her again for a couple of weeks since she arrives back her a day after I leave for Michigan. So it will be like 2 weeks before we see each other.

I'll dig this thread up here in a little while when I have more info.

 

[ikkenai]

So yesterday she said something along the lines of that she has been thinking about things and that she should do the right thing and abstain from sex till she is married.

I swear, there are strips of america that must look like the stone ages.

 

[ikkenai]

Originally posted by penkitten
i understand her reasons to not have sex again until they are married. ( i have 4 kiddos , so im telling you i know why)

Wow, you are a trainwreck. Maybe you should abstain from dispensing relationship advice, babe.

 

[startingFresh]

UPDATE

So we finally got to talk about the whole abstaining thing. Here is basically what the background is. She has been apparently struggling with the whole concept of premarital sex for a couple of years now and the scare kinda kicked that back into gear. This was not the first time she has felt this way but it was the first time she had a scare when she was feeling this way.

Now if you back track a couple of days ago, we talked about where our relationship was headed etc and she had mentioned that she doesnt see us getting married anytime sooner than like 2.5 to 3 years from now. Because of how our careers etc and getting settled is concerned if we moved forward in that direction it would still be a couple of years which I agreed. Fast forward back to today. So I make the comment that so what you are saying is that you aint gettin any for like almost 3 years?

And she said, thats what she feels she needs to do for her christian walk, that she has gone against what she believes for long enough and wants to try and do things right. Then she asked me what I thought about that whole situation cause I had said something to the effect that decisions that affect 2 people need to be talked about. and she said well, what do you think cause you can help me make some critical decisions about my life and about my walk with God. I said okay great go be feticious(sp?). From my belief stand point, I am NOT going to be one to stand in the way of a conviction that someone can have especially if the motivation is totally genuine. My questioning had been why now, wtf, why now? But it looks like it has been an ongoing thing which obviously if it is that important to her I dont want to stand in the way of. Is that an AFC move or is it a respect move cause I believe in God etc?

So she said again, okay I understand that you wont stand in my way of that but what do you think? Is that something that would work for you, or is it something that would work for me while u were out with other girls... where do you stand?

I told her that I understood what she was trying to do. She asked me if I thought it was wrong for premarital sex and I said that I understand where its place in current society is, what it can prevent and how it can cause a relationship to start off or develop for more of the right reasons. And she goes .... so... what you are saying is.....?

I said damnit, I dont know what to tell you at this point. She said I would understand if you threw an objection, then she basically made a comment that was the equivalent of the importance of this to her being so high and the hope that I would understand or agree with the principle because if I can't I cant and should move on. Then we got interrupted and were unable to finish the convo.

So WTF now?

I still stand by what I said before, this girl is great and could make a great partner and would be worth the wait, but damn...no sex for over a few months....damn

what now??

Would appreciate ya'lls help on this one.

 

[( . )( . )]

Re: UPDATE

Originally posted by startingFresh

So WTF now?

I still stand by what I said before, this girl is great and could make a great partner and would be worth the wait, but damn...no sex for over a few months....damn

what now??

Would appreciate ya'lls help on this one.

What the fvck are you doing? is this some kind of joke? You had God knows how many guys all telling you basically the same thing about this b!tch and you have the nerve to post THIS?

Here I'll post it again, try READING what we say this time.

This is the latest sh!t Ive decided to dribble, what do you think of that?, plus this little test is good to see if you will jump through my hoops and enter MY reality. Btw I forgot to mention if you actually are dumb enough to fall for this stunt and cater to me I'm going to next you in 3 to 6 weeks, cause quite frankly bullsh!t aside I really do need c@ck.

As soon as a b!tch is dumb enough to pull a stunt like that YOU become unnatainable INSTANTLY, dont even talk about it with her. She should be cut off totally. Never reward moronic behaviour.

Holy crap you actually went and did the complete opposite of what you SHOULD have done, unbelievable.

 

[startingFresh]

one of the things I didnt mention was that I had been married before and had walked. One of the reasons being lack of intimacy in many senses but one of them being sex. what all of her friends have been asking her over time is if i could leave a marriage before because of it, what makes her think that if we moved forward to that that I wouldnt leave that relationship either?

does that even register on the radar or is this purely an afc move christian beliefs aside? Is it too late to take back control of the situation?

 

[startingFresh]

Originally posted by Wyldfire

You also need to come right out and ask her if she's wanting to abstain now as a way to force the issue of marriage to be talked about. That's what she's doing and until you address it there will be needless stuff like this going on.

i brought this up and basically that is not the case here we are in no rush for that sort of thing but has been praying a lot of late about doing the right thing and if I am the right guy etc and being in and following God's will. Getting me to marry her is not the issue.

 

[startingFresh]

Re: Re: UPDATE

Originally posted by ( . )( . )
What the fvck are you doing? is this some kind of joke? You had God knows how many guys all telling you basically the same thing about this b!tch and you have the nerve to post THIS?

Here I'll post it again, try READING what we say this time.


Holy crap you actually went and did the complete opposite of what you SHOULD have done, unbelievable.

what talking to her about it was bad? I have not put my stand thus far or does that mean that I have given into this because I havent?

I am simply trying to make a smart move. i stated what i thought but have not said.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

As much as i hate quoting myself:

-----
Iron Rule of Tomassi #3:

Any woman who overtly makes you wait for sex, or implies by her actions that she is making you wait for sex; the sex is never worth the wait.

You are not her highest priority; there are other considerations she is observing in light of her changing one of her rules. Regadless of whether or not this change was prompted by a pregnancy scare or some other reasoning, the rule has changed. Her desire to be intimate with you has been superceded by some higher priority.

Play this out to it's logical conclusion; for sake of argument lets say you did convince her to have sex with you after implicitly telling you she was now 'saving' herself for marriage. It's you that will now be the villain for 'tempting' and 'coercing' her into having sex with you after her virtuous protesting. Do you really want to be with a girl who's impulse is to resist you rather than desire you?

Or play this scenario out; You decide to obey 'her rules' and maintain the relationship in as sterile a form as you can, by repressing your sexual impulse for as long as it takes for her to 'come around'. How long do you think you could hold out? Because essentially you are making a bet with her that you can remain celibate and faithful for as long as she deems necessary for her to marry you. How long would you forego your sexuality to prove worth to this woman?

And the last possibility is that you will indeed marry this girl and have 'legitimate' sex with her in the future. Can you honestly say that this woman is worth the sacrifice in light of the fact that her impulse is to resist rather than desire you?
-----

Assume for a moment you felt the altruistic conviction to join the peace corp and had to be apart from her for 2.5 to 3 years doing aid work in Africa. How do you think her attitude toward you would change in that time? This girl wants the security of having you around as a surrogate boyfriend without the necessity of having to reciprocate any intimacy. Again, follow this to it's logical end, will you think it was time well invested in remaining celibate for up to 3 years if she does in fact develop feelings for someone else and breaks it off in that period? How will you feel about foresaking other opportunities with other sexually available women in that time? Do you realistically think that the quality and frequency of the sex you do have after up to 3 years and marriage will justify abstaining? As a married man I can tell you that even under the best of circumstances, frequency and passion decline in marriage for women. I've yet to meet the married guy to tell me how much better and how much more sex he was having with his wife now. And yes, even the religious ones - it just takes a year or so of marriage. You've experienced this yourself.

These are pragmatic decisions you need to consider. Turn off your emotionalism for an hour and really follow thins out long term. You know yourself far better than you think you do. I knew from day one that if I were to get married it was going to have to be with a woman who would stay fit and sexy well into the rest of her life. That might sound 'shallow', but I know myself well enough to understand that if I was going to stay faithful to any woman she'd have to be exceptional. Stop and think about what you need long term. I would guess that wouldn't include women who say one thing and behave in another way.

The problem you're encountering now is a Catch 22. If you stick it out with her you're a fool, especially if you waste a year and a half to 2 years of time and effort only to have her feelings change - yet if you remove yourself (as I think you ought to) then you are a 'shallow' jerk who was only into her for her vagina and sex was your highest priority (which, in actuality, it always is). Do you really think a woman willing to put you into this dillema, especially after fvcking you prior to it, would make a good wife? If she's comfortable in playing a shell game with her sexuality, what makes you think she wouldn't do so in other aspects of your life until, and after, marriage?

Look, I understand religious convictions, I'm a Christ-follower myself, but we're all sinners in one regard or another and we're all hypocrites in some way. This isn't about that, it's about being forced into a position where you need to think long term and from what you've described this girl doesn't meet with any acceptability.

 

[startingFresh]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
As much as i hate quoting myself:

-----
Iron Rule of Tomassi #3:

Any woman who overtly makes you wait for sex, or implies by her actions that she is making you wait for sex; the sex is never worth the wait.

You are not her highest priority; there are other considerations she is observing in light of her changing one of her rules. Regadless of whether or not this change was prompted by a pregnancy scare or some other reasoning, the rule has changed. Her desire to be intimate with you has been superceded by some higher priority.

Play this out to it's logical conclusion; for sake of argument lets say you did convince her to have sex with you after implicitly telling you she was now 'saving' herself for marriage. It's you that will now be the villain for 'tempting' and 'coercing' her into having sex with you after her virtuous protesting. Do you really want to be with a girl who's impulse is to resist you rather than desire you?

Or play this scenario out; You decide to obey 'her rules' and maintain the relationship in as sterile a form as you can, by repressing your sexual impulse for as long as it takes for her to 'come around'. How long do you think you could hold out? Because essentially you are making a bet with her that you can remain celibate and faithful for as long as she deems necessary for her to marry you. How long would you forego your sexuality to prove worth to this woman?

And the last possibility is that you will indeed marry this girl and have 'legitimate' sex with her in the future. Can you honestly say that this woman is worth the sacrifice in light of the fact that her impulse is to resist rather than desire you?
-----

Assume for a moment you felt the altruistic conviction to join the peace corp and had to be apart from her for 2.5 to 3 years doing aid work in Africa. How do you think her attitude toward you would change in that time? This girl wants the security of having you around as a surrogate boyfriend without the necessity of having to reciprocate any intimacy. Again, follow this to it's logical end, will you think it was time well invested in remaining celibate for up to 3 years if she does in fact develop feelings for someone else and breaks it off in that period? How will you feel about foresaking other opportunities with other sexually available women in that time? Do you realistically think that the quality and frequency of the sex you do have after up to 3 years and marriage will justify abstaining? As a married man I can tell you that even under the best of circumstances, frequency and passion decline in marriage for women. I've yet to meet the married guy to tell me how much better and how much more sex he was having with his wife now. And yes, even the religious ones - it just takes a year or so of marriage. You've experienced this yourself.

These are pragmatic decisions you need to consider. Turn off your emotionalism for an hour and really follow thins out long term. You know yourself far better than you think you do. I knew from day one that if I were to get married it was going to have to be with a woman who would stay fit and sexy well into the rest of her life. That might sound 'shallow', but I know myself well enough to understand that if I was going to stay faithful to any woman she'd have to be exceptional. Stop and think about what you need long term. I would guess that wouldn't include women who say one thing and behave in another way.

The problem you're encountering now is a Catch 22. If you stick it out with her you're a fool, especially if you waste a year and a half to 2 years of time and effort only to have her feelings change - yet if you remove yourself (as I think you ought to) then you are a 'shallow' jerk who was only into her for her vagina and sex was your highest priority (which, in actuality, it always is). Do you really think a woman willing to put you into this dillema, especially after fvcking you prior to it, would make a good wife? If she's comfortable in playing a shell game with her sexuality, what makes you think she wouldn't do so in other aspects of your life until, and after, marriage?

Look, I understand religious convictions, I'm a Christ-follower myself, but we're all sinners in one regard or another and we're all hypocrites in some way. This isn't about that, it's about being forced into a position where you need to think long term and from what you've described this girl doesn't meet with any acceptability.

I can respect that! Got it! Hard to accept but definately on point. Its going to take a lot to do but I have to go ahead and set myself free. I respect your views!!

 

[NewMan]

quite being a pvssy.

but what do you think? Is that something that would work for you, or is it something that would work for me while u were out with other girls... where do you stand?

she asked you straight up.

1) You already left a marrage because of sex (nice leaving that out by the way)

You going to go 3 yrs without poon?

I respect her decision.

But dude, you already said you don't want to do it - yet you will not front up to her.

thats what she feels she needs to do for her christian walk, that she has gone against what she believes for long enough and wants to try and do things right. Then she asked me what I thought about that whole situation cause I had said something to the effect that decisions that affect 2 people need to be talked about. and she said well, what do you think cause you can help me make some critical decisions about my life and about my walk with God.

You should have said:

"I respect your decision. And - all the best with that. Good luck - I really mean it. If things don't work out the way you want - then call me. I'm not able to got without sex for 3 yrs, 2.5 yrs, 1 yr. or 6 months. I love ya, but I gotta leave ya".

AND WALK THE FVCK AWAY.

Listen,

If you accept it, your going to hate her for it. You going to be unhappy.

If she decides against following her convictions and keeps fvcking you, she will hate you for it and always blame you for it.

This is a lose, lose situation.

Walk away.

 

[startingFresh]

so a few days ago I went over to help her do some stuff with her computer. When I got done she had fallen asleep, I was about to head out and she woke and asked me to stay a while and nap with her. I could do with a nap so I fell asleep and a couple of hours later woke up with her laying on me. We talked a little bit and laughed, joked around and played around a little while still in bed. Long story short we started kissing and sh!t and were making out and she took my clothes of proceeded to take care of business and came back up and we continued to kiss and grind etc but things slowed down and I decided that I was gonna end up pissed and I said "this sh!t is for the birds" and just stopped what I was doing.. she grabbed my hand and put it on her chest and kissed me, and said, you never just leave, you always leave at the last minute is it because of what we talked about? And I said, you know, I can respect what you are wanting/trying to do, but I just can't, I can pretend all I want but when push comes to shove... I can't and I won't. I am into you as you already know but this is not fair on either of us.

She got quiet, and then I said... put yourself in my shoes, how would you feel? She immediately said, I would be mighty pissed off. Which I raised my eyebrows with the "yeah well", and then she said I think you are the one for me. Which I said nothing to, she said I admitted it to you before I'd even admit it to myself. What she said made me feel great inside but the issue was still an issue. I said nothing and she started kissing on me again and she rolled on her back and pulled me over her and took off her top and the rest is history...

Afterwards, we talked for a while afterwards and had some laughed so at this point am lost as to wtf that was about. It seemed almost like a situation where she is afraid that I will walk. I am prepared to cut ties even though it would be difficult for what I feel for her but it would be an unfair situation and I know for a fact that I couldnt survive that.

 

[Bonhomme]

IF I wanted to keep going out with her, I would not discuss it. I'd sort of laugh on the inside, and be such a knockout lover that resistance (to her own urges) would be futile...

 

[startingFresh]

sure enough there was another crazy session this morning in bed... then as I was in the shower before heading to work, she came in there and said "You are going to be late!"

Got dressed and gave her a big hug and she said I needed to be close to you, I needed that. I wanted to show you with my body what my mind and heart feel.

I said "is that right?!"

She said "if you didnt get it, let me show you again. let me make love to you!"

Girl is just wild! Guess I will see where things go cause I think she gets it!

 

[( . )( . )]

Originally posted by startingFresh

Got dressed and gave her a big hug and she said I needed to be close to you, I needed that. I wanted to show you with my body what my mind and heart feel.

What a bunch of mindnumbingly retarded chick drivel. "What my heart feels" fvck me dead you actually took in what she said, remembered it and posted it like it means anything other than "STOP LISTENING TO MY CRAP, EITHER STICK IT UP MY ASS OR WALK AWAY...YOU TIT".

Originally posted by startingFresh

She said "if you didnt get it, let me show you again. let me make love to you!"

Ohhh and it gets better "make love". Your actually thinking about marrying this mills and boone, romantic comedy spouting piece of cheesecake...give me strength.


How do you do it? dont you feel like throwing her through a window after listening to this fantastical rubbish?

Lucky for me I've always picked pretty down to earth chicks who dont talk like a romantic novel. I'd laugh at first if I ever met the other kind but I'm betting it would get old fast.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Here's what's going on:

You did a marginal takeaway and she is responding to this. As I said before, it's behaviorism 101 - you are essentially extinguishing a prior behavior by removing her reinforcement and she is compensating for it - this is what's called an 'extinction burst'. Essentially it is an overcompensation of a prior behavior (and new trial behaviors) performed in an effort to re-establish a prior reinforcement. A rat that is used to pressing a lever in order to get a food pellet will furiously pound the same lever (and perform novel behaviors) in order to get that same response when the lever no longer delivers the pellet.

In this case, the prior comfort she experienced from your attention and the security she felt in your presence has been removed - and minimally I might add. Her response was to forego her stated religious convictions and not only have sex with you, but to actively seek out sex with you. This is an extinction burst and by rewarding her behavior by fvcking her, you've just inadvertently reinforced this.

Remember - We only chase what runs away from us

The important thing to remember is that this is a reaction to your takeaway and the threshhold of her having sex with you in opposition to her convictions will gradually recede back to her attempting to convincing you (and probably more emphatically) that she wants to "save herself for marriage" again once her comfort level returns to where it was on her first attempt.

I'll have to concurr with the other posters here; she is suffering from ONEitis and subscribes to a very immature romanticism. I would advise NEXTing this girl as hard as this may be to do. But for your own sake, please tell me you are having protected sex with this girl? And by that I mean you are taking the responsibility for it by wearing a condom. Do NOT trust a child like this to assume adult responsibilities of birth control. A girl like this is a prime candidate to have an 'accidental' pregnancy in order to mistakenly ensure your attention and security for a lifetime. You already know what her reaction will be if presented with the choice of abortion.

 

[( . )( . )]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
Here's what's going on:

You did a marginal takeaway and she is responding to this. As I said before, it's behaviorism 101 - you are essentially extinguishing a prior behavior by removing her reinforcement and she is compensating for it - this is what's called an 'extinction burst'. Essentially it is an overcompensation of a prior behavior (and new trial behaviors) performed in an effort to re-establish a prior reinforcement. A rat that is used to pressing a lever in order to get a food pellet will furiously pound the same lever (and perform novel behaviors) in order to get that same response when the lever no longer delivers the pellet.

In this case, the prior comfort she experienced from your attention and the security she felt in your presence has been removed - and minimally I might add. Her response was to forego her stated religious convictions and not only have sex with you, but to actively seek out sex with you. This is an extinction burst and by rewarding her behavior by fvcking her, you've just inadvertently reinforced this.

This guy rocks.