She says she should abstain till marriage

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
WYLD: While I will admit more info would be necessary to make for a better overview, I will point out that a pregnancy scare implies that she (and he) have been less than careful in preparing for it. This denotes a distinct lack of responsibility as you are so fond of reminding us here. And again I'll point out that her response of turning off the spigot until marriage implies something more than just being gunshy from the pregnancy scare. If her reconsideration of her attitudes toward sex were prompted by the possibility of becoming pregnant then why not a strong resolution to go on some form of birth control or an insistance on him wearing a condom regularly (or else no sex)? No, she insists on abstinence until marriage, whether that includes some other form of sexual gratifacation is negotiable, but I'd argue that this was a pre-exisiting personal conviction. A resolution to be more careful when having intercourse would imply a sustained desire to continue having it with the guy, while an ultimatum of abstinence implies doubt and at the least a questionable desire for the guy.

I'm not giving STARTING FRESH a pass on this, he's equally irresponsible in the scare to be sure and needed to wrap the rascle. That said, her decision to resort to abstinence after the fact proves her intent. I'm not saying it's right or wrong or that she ought put off her convictions and fvck the guy anyway. In fact I respect her decision, but it seems far too convenient to fall back on these convictions after the fact.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying Rollo. The little info he gave made it pretty clear that her reason for giving sex a second thought was the pregnancy scare. Sure, there could be more too it and likely is. But again...we aren't getting enough info. We don't know if they were using birth control at the time of the scare, either...My 5 year old was conceived while using a condom...so those are no guarantee either.

I think we should all agree that if he wants serious advice he needs to give more info.

 

[( . )( . )]

I think we should abstain from sex

Translated:

This is the latest sh!t Ive decided to dribble, what do you think of that?, plus this little test is good to see if you will jump through my hoops and enter MY reality. Btw I forgot to mention if you actually are dumb enough to fall for this stunt and cater to me I'm going to next you in 3 to 6 weeks, cause quite frankly bullsh!t aside I really do need c@ck.




As soon as a b!tch is dumb enough to pull a stunt like that YOU become unnatainable INSTANTLY, dont even talk about it with her. She should be cut off totally. Never reward moronic behaviour.

 

[SAYNO]

Originally posted by ( . )( . )
Translated:

This is the latest sh!t Ive decided to dribble, what do you think of that?, plus this little test is good to see if you will jump through my hoops and enter MY reality. Btw I forgot to mention if you actually are dumb enough to fall for this stunt and cater to me I'm going to next you in 3 to 6 weeks, cause quite frankly bullsh!t aside I really do need c@ck.




As soon as a b!tch is dumb enough to pull a stunt like that YOU become unnatainable INSTANTLY, dont even talk about it with her. She should be cut off totally. Never reward moronic behaviour.

 

[NewMan]

really, I couldn't have put it better.

 

[penkitten]

in the begining of a relationship you can wait as long as you want to have sex, because quite frankly , once you have sex you cant go back to not having sex.

i understand her reasons to not have sex again until they are married. ( i have 4 kiddos , so im telling you i know why)

the thing i dont understand is how. how do you go to not ever having sex with that person again and still continue to be with them and share in life and "fall in love"??

if i were the girl i would have to cut my loses and start all over again with someone new rather than deal with the hard goals that this girl has set forth. perhaps i am just not that strong or just dont feel like dealing with stuff like that. who knows.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Woah, 4 kids at 27? Maybe you should be abstaining.

We're questioning motivations here really. For sake of debate, lets suppose the guy was medically sterile or had a vasectomy? Assuming both are disease free, is abstinence an issue? Women are the filters of their own intimacy - is it that she genuinely wants to 'save herself' for her husband or the risk of pregnancy that prompts this decision? Women know that sex is the deal breaker for any guy, why is this brain surgery?

I love my wife and my kid and have been married for 9 years now in a great marriage with few complaints, but I can tell you that if my wife were to make the decision to stop having sex with me permanently, I would look for other opportunities the moment I took her seriously.

I'm sure that to the hopeless romantic that sounds vapid and shallow, but it's simple pragmatisim. I know myself far too well to think that I could live a life of celibacy. And again this comes back to the desire principle. If my wife were in an accident and could no longer physically have sex with me, but still had the desire to, this is a completely different condition that if she was able to and decided not to because she no longer desired to.

My argument in this instance is that this is a desire issue. Before the scare, which no doubt had some influence in prompting her, she had enough desire for the guy to push down what are probably powerful convictions for her. Think about that for a minute. Most women that hold fast to a pledge of abstinence before marriage have had some very influential (but not specifically) religious upbringing and probably a lot of guilt or shame associated with sexuality. For a woman so inclined, to have a desire to put this amount of conditioning off in order to have sex with a guy inspite of it is a very powerful desire. The problem then occurs that once she's acted on this desire (and with the added possibility of an illegitimate pregnancy) she reverts back to her prior conditioning and experiences what we call 'buyers regret'. In any case the desire is what prompted the behavior and in the absence of that desire, no behavior is performed.

 

[startingFresh]

First of all, You guys are just absolutely awesome in taking this thread and sharing your thoughts and I truly appreciate all of your opinions.

For complete accuracy she had said that that she should abstain from sex till I am married just like God intended. So I didnt wanna get into a discussion that had religion tied into it which was part of the reason I ignored that initial statement. What started bothering me is that okay, if its a conviction thing about having sex before marriage, why the f**k now? Cause there have been partners over the years that you were active with and didnt necessarily arrive at that. On the same token I will admit that we know that we are headed that way and she feels that I may be the one and is after like a last ditcheffort to follow some convictions that she may have had in the past. But I am like then why the hell would u change now if I am the guy that you are going to stay with?

To answer some of your questions, no with the scare her statement was that she wasnt about to have a child at this point and would rather have an abortion at this stage than have a child even though her best friend keeps on pressing saying that she should. Timing would be off as far as I am concerned but it being a scare to where I would take off, not a possibility. She is not worried about that I dont think. We usually wrap it up but the culprit I believe, just happened to be one of our moments of passion where we couldnt wait to get home, we hadnt seen each other for a couple of days and I went to pick her up and a passionate kiss in the car in the parking garage turned out into a steamy session pulling out at the end. We are pretty responsible, she is making a switch in birth control and she was going to the patch instead of the pill and just hadnt picked them up yet. Hence the scare.

As far as quality of our sex life is concerned, there is nothing missing. It is exciting, its passionate, its adventurous and so damn good. We both see it that way. I am a very physical guy and she is also, so that statement came as a shock and I ignored it cause I didn't know what to think or say.

So what I am now battling in my mind is if I have let her get too comfortable with our situation because I am very loving and very caring and accommodating. I have the mindset that the bottom line is what is important not the piddly sh!t that can go on in relationships. So is it possible that I let a lot of little **** fly under the radar causing her to think that she can touch the major sh!t without thinking/discussing? In a relationship when can you be totally transparent to your partner and be totally honest and upfront on all issues regardless? Is that something you are supposed to even do? I question that now because I am totally honest about all things with her and she does the same back. This just caught me for a loop and am trying to make sense of it before we talk about it.

It was an emotional time or at least that is what I am telling myself. So until we have a full discussion about it which we havent had a chance to do because of work and travel, I wont know exactly the seriousness of her statement. I know that the time frame for her and I getting married would be something in the vicinity of 1.5 years because thats where we BOTH see the timing to be right in getting our careers and financial stuff taken care of and comfortable and in place. So to think that we wouldnt have sex for that period of time..... OHH HEEELLLLL NAWWW!!!! Especially for how good it is and how we have been going... That would drive me insane. Totally insane! Can't deny me of that need.

 

[startingFresh]

bit of background

She is a great girl. She is intelligent and very ambitious which I think is a must, she is very sweet, caring and nuturing to those that are in her life. She is giving, thoughtful, fun and adventurous. She says that she knows that I am the one for her and doesnt understand it how she feels cause it is beyond the parameters that she had thought were possible. Our personalities mesh really well and we are very honest with each other. She is like a 9-9 1/2 and we are obnoxiously attracted to each other. She is petite, great shape, great proportions, great face, great hair, knows how to dress and is just sexy as hell.

I am of the athletic 6 ft. variety, DJish - career, life, appearance, goals, ambitions etc all in check and am a great catch.

So when it comes to worth, I am well worth the time and she knows it. So just wanted to state that to see if that helps in gathering a better picture of the situation.

 

[bp1974]

In a relationship when can you be totally transparent to your partner and be totally honest and upfront on all issues regardless? Is that something you are supposed to even do?

Well, like you say, there's a balance between bringing up every little thing that happens, and ensuring that you DO bring up those things that are important to you.

Finding out what's brought on this reversion to religious conviction will help you understand her motives better. You're guessing right now about what she thinks, so talking to her will give you a much better idea of where the two of you stand. It also gives you the chance to tell her where YOU stand (

OHH HEEELLLLL NAWWW!!!! Especially for how good it is and how we have been going... That would drive me insane. Totally insane! Can't deny me of that need.

). You can then both decide what to do. If she knows how you feel, she may reconsider. If she won't, then you have choices to make about where this whole thing is going.

At the same time it'd be helpful to address the way she's going about this, which is no way to act with a serious partner. Once she started thinking about this, you needed to be involved in the process, not simply told the result at the end.

 

[NewMan]

You've got to hit the issue in the head - i.e. that she didn't discuss this with you. If you let that go, you open yourself up in the future - and you need to stop it now, because if you don't, there's no way to stop ot after the fact.

if I have let her get too comfortable with our situation because I am very loving and very caring and accommodating.

Possibly - you can be to laid back. you need to define some boundaries - and be a little rough around the edges - my opinion.

In a relationship when can you be totally transparent to your partner and be totally honest and upfront on all issues regardless? Is that something you are supposed to even do? I question that now because I am totally honest about all things with her and she does the same back

wouldn't that be perfect? but in my experience you can never be totally honest. Sometimes you need to know when to keep your mouth shut - pick your battles.

in the vicinity of 1.5 years because thats where we BOTH see the timing to be right in getting our careers and financial stuff taken care of and comfortable and in place. So to think that we wouldnt have sex for that period of time..... OHH HEEELLLLL NAWWW!!!

Bottom line, she may not even carry this through - true? So perhaps you should wait to see what transpires. If your denied sex then your no choices. It would be a deal breaker for me - you can't undo what's been done - so no matter how compatable we were, I'd leave...... unless - she was cool with me banging other women. That would be the only reason I'd stay.

I believe you've got to draw the line in the sand on this one.

 

[Wyldfire]

Okay, with the additional information here is my take...

She wants to get married to you. This is just a case of her trying to inspire you to propose without coming right out and saying it.

Now, aside from this new "I want to abstain" issue, it sounds like you have a pretty good relationship that you're happy with. Although this issue is a pretty big one it COULD be a case of her not knowing any other way to bring the topic up. She shouldn't take that route, but you probably shouldn't judge her on this alone...look at the whole situation.

You've got to ask yourself what you want. If a woman starts pushing for marriage or getting engaged then she has it in her head and it's not going to go away. Basically, in order to keep the relationship you're going to have to at least plan on eventually getting married. If you don't, things are going to deteriorate fast.

You CAN'T agree to something you don't want just to keep someone. So...if marriage at some point to her isn't what you want then DON'T agree to it. If you do think you want to marry her then make sure you don't rush and take your time but let her know you're thinking about it.

You've got a lot to think about...

You also need to come right out and ask her if she's wanting to abstain now as a way to force the issue of marriage to be talked about. That's what she's doing and until you address it there will be needless stuff like this going on.

If she still refuses to have sex even after the new birth control has kicked in you'll need to separate from her. You can't allow her to use intimacy as a bargaining chip to get what she wants. However, you DO still need to address the issue of what she wants..you can't just ignore it because it won't go away.

Good luck...

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

This is a marriage ultimatum and a marriage ultimatum is ALWAYS an automatic NEXT.

This is the queen mother of sh!ttests and I don't care how compassionate or syrupy-sweet perfect you perceive her to be - men propose marriage to women, boys are blackmailed by a woman's intimacy into marriage.

This woman is blackmailing you with her intimacy by resorting to a dubious religious conviction that she was more than happy to neglect when she was knocking it out with you. That, my friend, is called bait & switch. If you supplicate to this woman now by acquiescing to this you will set the precident for the entire marriage. If you'll supplicate yourself to the point of marriage for her pvssy, you'll certainly do so for lesser demands. Do NOT reward her by reinforcing her sh!t test by compromising youreself.

Go back and read my first post, I think iwas closest to the pin on this one. The prosecution rest it's case.

 

[Wyldfire]

For the most part I agree with Rollo on this...as far as how sh*tty this is of her and what it means. However, I don't agree that it should be an automatic NEXT. I think there's a chance you can salvage the situation while STILL walking away with your balls in tact. It'd be tricky, though.

First of all you need to make it CLEAR to her that if she's trying to make you want to marry her by refusing you sex until you do she's not going to succeed because it's going to severely damage your feelings for her, which, in turn, will just make you NEVER want to marry her. You've got to stress that...and firmly...but without being an ass about it.

You also need to make it clear to her that before she pulled this on you, you saw her as someone you wanted to stay with, which would give her a much higher chance of you eventually wanting to marry her.

From her point of view, she could either want actual marriage or just reassurance that you're intending to stay with her...that you're committed. You MIGHT be able to satisfy that need in her and get things back to normal IF it's just the reassurance and commitment she needs. If it's marriage she wants and will settle for nothing less THEN I would agree with Rollo that you should probably end things with her. Ultimately, he's right about the using sex as a bargaining chip. You can't allow that AND retain your balls. There's no guarantee that the other option I gave you will resolve things because it all depends on what her true goals are...and we can't really know that for sure without knowing her and hearing what she has to say. If you think you want to salvage things (and don't do that unless you HONESTLY think it's worth it to try), then have that talk to her I suggested and see what her reaction is. If she won't budge then she's a definite NEXT.

 

[Crowes]

Am I missing something here? Aren't you already fvcking this girl?

What in the hell would be the point in waiting til marriage now? Are you engaged?

This sounds like a major power play on her part. BEWARE!

I've been through this, she is testing her boundaries, seeing how much of a slave of a hubby she can make you. Stand up for yourself and don't cave.

 

[MackJr]

Originally posted by bp1974
She has every right to choose not to have sex until married. She does NOT have the right to impose that decision on you. This kind of decision can't be made by one person IN A RELATIONSHIP because it affects the two of you. It has to be discussed.

Another stealth Christian. There are a lot of them on the board lately. You can tell by the dogmatic tone of the response.

You do not "discuss" things unless you're well into an LTR. at the beginning, and in many ways throughout, it's mostly nonverbal.

Nevertheless, you do have to back off for your own protection. This woman has issues and someone like her would consider rubbing the small of her back akin to sexual assault, let alone all out sex. So NEXT her, and be glad that you didn't get a woman with serious sexual issues.

If you do wait, it's saying that you basically capitulate to her demands, so you lose big time and don't get what you want even after you're married.

 

[NewMan]

Your in trouble if you comply to her demands. Your in trouble if you try to negotiate.

This is terrorism.

This should be non negotiable.

No matter how hot she is - how great your relationship - you should not put your man hood on the line.

If she had told you this from the get go - different stroy. But this is changing the rules of the game half way through the season.

buyer beware,

 

[BobbDobbs]

Ulti-matato-matum.

 

[chopper1911]

keep walkin man been there done that no win situation

 

[GirlCrazy]

This is a marriage ultimatum and a marriage ultimatum is ALWAYS an automatic NEXT.

I'd take this a step further and say that ANY ultimatum is an automatic NEXT.

 

[bp1974]

Originally posted by MackJr
Another stealth Christian. There are a lot of them on the board lately. You can tell by the dogmatic tone of the response.

Do you care to back that up with some evidence, or were you just in the mood to make idiotic assumptions when you posted that?