She says she should abstain till marriage

[startingFresh]

I have been seeing this girl and I am really into her and she knows it and she is into me back. The interest level is very high and I know for a fact that this is going to be a LTR. The sex is awesome etc. we had a bit of the prego scare etc and obviously came to find out she wasnt so that was good.

So yesterday she said something along the lines of that she has been thinking about things and that she should do the right thing and abstain from sex till she is married. I ignored it when she first mentioned it on the phone. So later that day I am over at her place and she says "I was serious about what I said earlier" and I said oh yeah. And ignored it again.

What do you guys think I should do/say? What would be the afc response and what is the DJ response and why when/if it comes up again?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Deal breaker.

NEXT.

 

[startingFresh]

So here is the problem, I am into this girl. Everything else seems just right until this came about so saying NEXT under normal circumstances would have been the appropriate course of action, but in this situation I want to be with her. Was trying to see if this was a sh!!te test or not but wouldnt make sense to do one now several months late!

 

[bp1974]

She has every right to choose not to have sex until married. She does NOT have the right to impose that decision on you. This kind of decision can't be made by one person IN A RELATIONSHIP because it affects the two of you. It has to be discussed.

 

[Bible_Belt]

She had better give good head and a lot of it.

 

[Tomb]

Did you even ask her why she doesnt want to have sex again til marriage? She has to have a reason for this. If you can find out the reason you can solve it and resume the sex life.

 

[Aaron B]

go on about your business but don't try to have sex with her. When she finally tries to get you to fvck her, remind her of what she told you

 

[NewMan]

So all of a sudden she wants to change the rules on you.

Isn't that just like women.

What do you do for her? do you take her to movies? buy her dinner? help her with her car? take out the trash? carry out all the heavy lifting?.......

there are a few self evident things here.

1) This will determine how your relationship will run in the long term. i.e. she just pulls this out of her a## and now you have to tow the line. If you accept this, you can accept that during your relationship, this is how it will be. She will change the rules as she sees fit.

2) notice how there was no conversation about her decision. It was fact. It wasn't - "Honey, that pregnancy scare has really got me thinking. what do you think..." - it's all about her. Don't expect that to change.

3) sh#t test or not your reaction will determine the power of the relationship.

the question you need to ask is, are you willing to put up with this? are you willing to go without the poon?

 

[Wyldfire]

This girl obviously learned her lesson from the pregnancy scare. If she doesn't want to risk becoming a parent before she is in a better position to raise a child you have to respect that. It doesn't sound like she wants to abstain in order to play games or get even with you for anything. Reality of the risks involved in premarital sex just slapped her square in the face and she doesn't want to take that risk. That shows responsibility on her part and that she is good LTR material. You SHOULD want someone who actually thinks and is mature enough to want to protect herself from something she isn't ready to deal with.

Sounds like you really like and value her and there are other things you can do sexually that won't risk pregnancy that will keep you both content. As long as she is open to still being intimate without intercourse there's no reason to be at all upset by her decision.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by NewMan
So all of a sudden she wants to change the rules on you.

Isn't that just like women.

What do you do for her? do you take her to movies? buy her dinner? help her with her car? take out the trash? carry out all the heavy lifting?.......

there are a few self evident things here.

1) This will determine how your relationship will run in the long term. i.e. she just pulls this out of her a## and now you have to tow the line. If you accept this, you can accept that during your relationship, this is how it will be. She will change the rules as she sees fit.

2) notice how there was no conversation about her decision. It was fact. It wasn't - "Honey, that pregnancy scare has really got me thinking. what do you think..." - it's all about her. Don't expect that to change.

3) sh#t test or not your reaction will determine the power of the relationship.

the question you need to ask is, are you willing to put up with this? are you willing to go without the poon?

If a female doesn't want to risk getting pregnant she doesn't have to. I see no evidence of her doing this to punish him. If anything, she's doing it to protect them both from becoming parents before they're ready.

The ironic thing about this is that if he insists on having sex after she is attempting to be responsible and make sure there is no unplanned pregnancy and later he posts that she is pregnant some of you will accuse her of planning to get pregnant. On top of that, there would be a slew of the guys here advising him to pressure her to get an abortion and dump her if she won't and then avoid paying child support, etc.

She's trying to be responsible and he should appreciate the fact that she is...that doesn't happen as much as it should anymore.

 

[bp1974]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
This girl obviously learned her lesson from the pregnancy scare. If she doesn't want to risk becoming a parent before she is in a better position to raise a child you have to respect that. It doesn't sound like she wants to abstain in order to play games or get even with you for anything. Reality of the risks involved in premarital sex just slapped her square in the face and she doesn't want to take that risk. That shows responsibility on her part and that she is good LTR material. You SHOULD want someone who actually thinks and is mature enough to want to protect herself from something she isn't ready to deal with.

Sounds like you really like and value her and there are other things you can do sexually that won't risk pregnancy that will keep you both content. As long as she is open to still being intimate without intercourse there's no reason to be at all upset by her decision.

The reason to be upset is that she has made a unilateral decision on an important relationship topic that affects him as much as it affects her. This kind of thing can't be decided by one person and then foisted on the other as a done deal.

Fair enough if she were single, made her decision, and then told any prospective partner that this is what she'd decided to do.

But in this case she is in what sounds like a serious relationship, and has decided this without talking to her partner or taking his views into account.

I don't think saying he 'should' want a girl who does this is particularly helpful. I agree that being responsible is a good thing, and at the same time it sounds like she needs to learn some relationship skills. And if startingFresh is to ensure that this relationship remains a partnership and not degrade into a power struggle, it's up to him to let her know that this kind of thing is a TWO-WAY decision.

 

[Wyldfire]

Intercourse isn't the only form of sex, you know.

This girl doesn't want to risk getting pregnant and she has every right to protect herself.

Perhaps during the pregnancy scare he did or said something that led her to believe he wouldn't take responsibility and be there for her. We don't know that because he didn't explain the details of what took place.

He can break up with her if he wants to, but he's saying he doesn't want to do that and wants a LTR with her. Her behavior indicates she is RESPONSIBLE and that is a very good trait for a LTR.

 

[bp1974]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
Her behavior indicates she is RESPONSIBLE and that is a very good trait for a LTR.

I agree. As is communicating with your partner and ensuring that you're both involved in making important relationship decisions.

With the way it's been presented to him, there are two obvious choices:

1. Agree to her decision
2. Leave

I prefer the third choice - let her know that this kind of thing is to be discussed, so that both people have a chance to voice their views and do their best to come to a solution that works for both of them. A fait accomplit is no way to conduct an honest relationship.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by bp1974
The reason to be upset is that she has made a unilateral decision on an important relationship topic that affects him as much as it affects her. This kind of thing can't be decided by one person and then foisted on the other as a done deal.

Fair enough if she were single, made her decision, and then told any prospective partner that this is what she'd decided to do.

But in this case she is in what sounds like a serious relationship, and has decided this without talking to her partner or taking his views into account.

I don't think saying he 'should' want a girl who does this is particularly helpful. I agree that being responsible is a good thing, and at the same time it sounds like she needs to learn some relationship skills. And if startingFresh is to ensure that this relationship remains a partnership and not degrade into a power struggle, it's up to him to let her know that this kind of thing is a TWO-WAY decision.

As I just said in my last post...maybe his behavior during the pregnancy scare indicated that he would not be there for her if an unwanted pregnancy occured. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess this might have something to do with her decision.

Let's see what he has to say about because it's highly relevent.

If your girlfriend thought she was pregnant and led you to believe she would keep the baby, take you to court and then not let you see the kid would you have second thoughts about having sex with her again after finding out she wasn't pregnant? Probably.

We need more information about that pregnancy scare before having a fair understanding of what's really going on.

 

[bp1974]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
If your girlfriend thought she was pregnant and led you to believe she would keep the baby, take you to court and then not let you see the kid would you have second thoughts about having sex with her again after finding out she wasn't pregnant? Probably.

Yes, and if I wanted to stay with her I'd talk to her about it to find out whether I was correct in my assumptions or whether we'd misunderstood each other. That way I could make an informed decison over whether to carry on seeing her or not.

We need more information about that pregnancy scare before having a fair understanding of what's really going on.

True, more information would be helpful.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

She has rules, you have rules too.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3:

Any woman who overtly makes you wait for sex, or implies by her actions that she is making you wait for sex; the sex is never worth the wait.

You are not her highest priority; there are other considerations she is observing in light of her changing one of her rules. Regadless of whether or not this change was prompted by a pregnancy scare or some other reasoning, the rule has changed. Her desire to be intimate with you has been superceded by some higher priority.

Play this out to it's logical conclusion; for sake of argument lets say you did convince her have sex with you after implicitly telling you she was now 'saving' herself for marriage. It's you that will now be the villain for 'tempting' and 'coercing' her into having sex with you after her virtuous protesting. Do you really want to be with a girl who's impulse is to resist you rather than desire you?

Or play this scenario out; You decide to obey 'her rules' and maintain the relationship in as sterile a form as you can, by repressing your sexual impulse for as long as it takes for her to 'come around'. How long do you think you could hold out? Because essentially you are making a bet with her that you can remain celibate and faithful for as long as she deems necessary for her to marry you. How long would you forego your sexuality to prove worth to this woman?

And the last possibility is that you will indeed marry this girl and have 'legitimate' sex with her in the future. Can you honestly say that this woman is worth the sacrifice in light of the fact that her impulse is to resist rather than desire you?

As we're so fond of reminding ourselves here, women will fvck. They might not fvck me, they might not fvck you, but they'll fvck the guy that they have an intense desire to fvck, convictions be damned. A woman who wants to have sex with you WIILL find a way and means to do so. She'll relocate across the country, crawl under barbed wire, avoid the suspicious wife and crawl out a bathroom window if she has a genuine desire to knock it out with you. This girl had that desire at some point as evidenced by her former behavior, but obviously no longer feels that intense motivation to put off her convictions because her convictions outweigh her desire to break them for you. In light of this, do you honestly think that any sex you could convince her to have with you, whether married or not, would be to the same degree of passion as when she was previously motivated by her genuine desire?

Don't waste your time. How long would you wait before selling if you owned stock in a company that consistently lost value quarter after quarter? Do you wait till they go bankrupt? No, you cut your loses, sell it off and reinvest in better prospective stocks that return a dividend. Spin more plates.

 

[Wyldfire]

Rollo...we aren't talking about a situation where she has no reason to have second thoughts about her sexual activity. She had a pregnancy scare. Anyone with half a brain would sit back and say "Whoa! I need to digest this and think about what I'm doing."

She has a GOOD reason to think about things.

Again, I will point out that there are plenty of ways to sexually gratify each other without having intercourse and risking pregnancy.

As long as she is willing to make the effort to satisfy his needs in OTHER ways besides intercourse then the problem is NOT with her desire. The problem is that she is afraid of getting pregnant without being married. Not a damn thing unreasonable about that. People SHOULD be concerned about that risk.

And you, of all people, should know that a pregnancy scare can bring out some behavior in both people involved that will most likely leave them both feeling a little uneasy about the relationship and each other.

Let's say he immediately started pushing her to get an abortion if she was pregnant and told her in fear or anger that if she didn't get one he would leave her and wouldn't help her with the child.

IF (and we don't know the details) he behaved that way, you can't really blame her for not wanting to take any risk of getting pregnant by him.

There are just too many potential underlying issues in this situation to FAIRLY judge it.

 

[bp1974]

Truth is, any of us can come up with a story about this that either makes him or her look bad. Without information, it's just a story.

StartingFresh, you've got two things going on here and they both involve you and she sitting down and talking about this. One is to find out what's led her to this decision. The other is how she communicated it to you - ie as a done deal. The first one will get you both clearer about what's going on between the two of you, and the second will help ensure that you both know how to take each other into account when making big decisions in the future.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

WYLD: While I will admit more info would be necessary to make for a better overview, I will point out that a pregnancy scare implies that she (and he) have been less than careful in preparing for it. This denotes a distinct lack of responsibility as you are so fond of reminding us here. And again I'll point out that her response of turning off the spigot until marriage implies something more than just being gunshy from the pregnancy scare. If her reconsideration of her attitudes toward sex were prompted by the possibility of becoming pregnant then why not a strong resolution to go on some form of birth control or an insistance on him wearing a condom regularly (or else no sex)? No, she insists on abstinence until marriage, whether that includes some other form of sexual gratifacation is negotiable, but I'd argue that this was a pre-exisiting personal conviction. A resolution to be more careful when having intercourse would imply a sustained desire to continue having it with the guy, while an ultimatum of abstinence implies doubt and at the least a questionable desire for the guy.

I'm not giving STARTING FRESH a pass on this, he's equally irresponsible in the scare to be sure and needed to wrap the rascle. That said, her decision to resort to abstinence after the fact proves her intent. I'm not saying it's right or wrong or that she ought put off her convictions and fvck the guy anyway. In fact I respect her decision, but it seems far too convenient to fall back on these convictions after the fact.

 

[NewMan]

If she doesn't want to risk becoming a parent before she is in a better position to raise a child you have to respect that

I never said he should not respect that - but he shouldn't accept it either.

Any woman who, without consulting her man, denies him sex - that's a red flag.

If he were to go out and make a major purchase with their money (assume they get married) without consultung her first - or talking about it - she would be sayign the same thing. Same rules apply.

Again - what does she expect hime to do?

The ironic thing about this is that if he insists on having sex after she is attempting to be responsible and make sure there is no unplanned pregnancy and later he posts that she is pregnant some of you will accuse her of planning to get pregnant. On top of that, there would be a slew of the guys here advising him to pressure her to get an abortion and dump her if she won't and then avoid paying child support, etc.

Responsible? yes, then take the pill - as described on the directions - that means at the same time every day - and have him wear a condom. Her making such a decision WITHOUT consulting him - or talking about other options - is her unilaterally executing power over him.

Her behavior indicates she is RESPONSIBLE and that is a very good trait for a LTR.

BS - this is her being irresponsible. She does not care about him. She making a knee jerk reaction to something without discussing it with her man - what kind of message is this sending to his future with her. That she will make other such decisions in the same manner.

Let's say he immediately started pushing her to get an abortion if she was pregnant and told her in fear or anger that if she didn't get one he would leave her and wouldn't help her with the child.

then she should leave him.

and anyway - your never going to know the real details - so, based on what we DO KNOW.

If this is her decision, there is know way a MAN could stay with a chick who unilaterally cuts of the sex because she was a week late on her period.

Should they split up, you can gurarntee she will be ho'ing around until she traps the next one that comes along.