She dodged. You do .. what?

[xblitz44x]

I've been involved in this crap since 2002...I know the point of "neg hits" and I also know why they don't work, especially in a situation like this.

You're saying that at one second she didn't like him enough to kiss, but if he makes her feel insecure, at the next second she'll instantly want HIM, since she needs *somebody* to make her feel beautiful again? Do you see how silly this is? She didn't want him for whatever reason, and him making her feel insecure isn't going to 'magically' make her wet for him. If you believe that then *you*, sir, have a long way to go.

You say that a neg-hit will 'put her in a lower frame than you' as if the girl even feels insecure over something a guy that she doesn't even LIKE, said. The only place this power struggle is going on is in your mind.

If she liked him, she would have kissed him. Indirectly shattering her self esteem won't make him 'hot' in her eyes all of a sudden. Wake up.

 

[Vibe]

Originally posted by xblitz44x
I've been involved in this crap since 2002...I know the point of "neg hits" and I also know why they don't work, especially in a situation like this.

You're saying that at one second she didn't like him enough to kiss, but if he makes her feel insecure, at the next second she'll instantly want HIM, since she needs *somebody* to make her feel beautiful again? Do you see how silly this is? She didn't want him for whatever reason, and him making her feel insecure isn't going to 'magically' make her wet for him. If you believe that then *you*, sir, have a long way to go.

You say that a neg-hit will 'put her in a lower frame than you' as if the girl even feels insecure over something a guy that she doesn't even LIKE, said. The only place this power struggle is going on is in your mind.

If she liked him, she would have kissed him. Indirectly shattering her self esteem won't make him 'hot' in her eyes all of a sudden. Wake up.

Dude, I see where you're coming from but I don't think you are looking at the big picture. The neg-hit is just a piece of the pie. It's not going to automatically make her love him but it will set him up to regain whatever he lost with his bad kiss execution. You have no idea why she dodged. She may have been nervous or who-knows-what. Some girls just don't kiss on the first date. Some girls have a lot of defenses up because they've been f*cked over a lot. Now whether or not you want to be with a girl like that is your decision (I wouldn't).

My feeling is this - just because she rejects you does not mean you should stop gaming on her. Especially if it is a date situation. You don't just leave your date when she doesn't want to make out. Just because you're confident doesn't mean you have to be classless. When your game is internalized, it should always be going. It shouldn't be an issue.

Honestly, if she dodged me like that, I would probably just look her sardonically and say "weeeiiird..." and then move on like nothing happened. You may call it a waste of time. I call it my personality.

~Vibe~

 

[al77]

Originally posted by xblitz44x
Yeah, a neg-hit would do nothing for you here. People are giving that advice because their egos would be shattered and they feel like they have to 'hit back' to save face. It's always a power struggle with those guys. You'd be better off viewing the situation a little lighter, making a joke about it, and cutting your loses.

Exactly. Thanks!
I would rather laugh it off than neg hit with ".. you dodge really well...." thing.
I guess it is much better to joke about it than to neg hit in order to save face. If you neg hit, it is obvious that you are hurt kind of and cannot hold it. If you laugh at it - well, you are relaxed andtake it lightly. This is much better.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Vibe

Now whether or not you want to be with a girl like that is your decision (I wouldn't).

My feeling is this - just because she rejects you does not mean you should stop gaming on her.

Don't you think it is a contradiction? You would not want to be with her, but at the same time you would not stop gaming her???

I think it is over, so neg hits or non neg hits would not do much anway. I would simple go for something more pleasant than a neg hit since it doesn't matter from that point of time.

 

[Vibe]

Personally, yeah, I wouldn't have directly negged her. However, I still would have kept my frame higher than hers by way of how I carry myself, etc. Just up-n-leaving is pretty rude, I think - just because she doesn't want to kiss a guy.

Here's how I look at it. Maybe she doesn't want to hook up with you right then but if you maintain a good frame and don't worry about "awkwardness," she may be up for it by the end of the night. I will usually give a woman two chances before I write her off. That's just my philosophy. People do a lot of weird things when they are taken by surprise. If it was in a club, I would ditch her - but since it's a date situation the only thing you can do is try to make the most of it.

I totally see where you two are coming from though - I just don't think it's a lost cause if you don't want it to be.


~Vibe~

 

[EquityPrivate]

Originally posted by xblitz44x
I've been involved in this crap since 2002...I know the point of "neg hits" and I also know why they don't work, especially in a situation like this.

You're saying that at one second she didn't like him enough to kiss, but if he makes her feel insecure, at the next second she'll instantly want HIM, since she needs *somebody* to make her feel beautiful again? Do you see how silly this is? She didn't want him for whatever reason, and him making her feel insecure isn't going to 'magically' make her wet for him. If you believe that then *you*, sir, have a long way to go.

You say that a neg-hit will 'put her in a lower frame than you' as if the girl even feels insecure over something a guy that she doesn't even LIKE, said. The only place this power struggle is going on is in your mind.

If she liked him, she would have kissed him. Indirectly shattering her self esteem won't make him 'hot' in her eyes all of a sudden. Wake up.

You haven't been paying attention. This is really simple actually.

The only response to hot-cold noise from women is to neg and freeze. You have to turn the "You're not good enough for me" stuff coming from them around 180 degrees. It is THEY who are not good enough for YOU.

She dodged the kiss. There are two options here. 1. She's trying to be in control. 2. She's not interested. Sucking back up to her after that tells her that she IS in control. She gets to decide the pace. She is rewarded (your increased attention) for her bad behavior (dodging the kiss). That's just not what you want and it sets a bad tone. And if she's not interested yet the only possible path to her interest is probably social proof and cat-stringing (if you are a Mystery fan).

You are busy and dynamic guy with an interesting a full social schedule. If she doesn't want to share herself with you then you will go find someone else who does. Right then. Right there.

Dropping a soft neg "Wow. Dodgy." Back turning and then slowly moving on gives her a chance to win you back- as she just lost you with her dodge move.

Don't forget the mindset. You're not out to win her, she is out to win you, and she just screwed up. Enforce that.

Start with the back turn. Not just to emptiness, but to something. Flirt with the cute bartender now, or ask the guy next to you about his watch.

If you don't get a response, slowly increase the distance (both emotional and physical) but always do it while doing something else interesting or talking with someone else interesting. Do NOT just sit there waiting for her attention. She's winning if you are sacrificing your time waiting for her to pay you attention again. She must believe you don't give the salt in your tears if she talks to you again. You must be heading quickly to the point where you really don't give the salt in your tears if she talks to you again.

If enough time passes and she's not responding... NEXT. Your time wasn't wasted because you will have built up some social proof when you talked to the distractions around you after backturning on her.

This temptation to suck up or to just eject on the first "no" just is defeatism. Always use as much of your game as you can. Anything less would be uncivilized.

I want to point something else out. It's almost your DUTY to freeze out on that kind of behavior. It's the AFCs that program these women through behavioral conditioning that they can still get bought drinks even when they play these games. Stop playing by their rules and impose your own. Your fellow DJs will appreciate you for it because the next guy she just might not try to kiss-dodge so quickly.

 

[xblitz44x]

"There are two options here. 1. She's trying to be in control. 2. She's not interested."

If she went as far as dodging a kiss, thus creating an extremely awkward situation, I can promise you it's because of number 2, not because "she's trying to be in control". If she was interested, and trying to 'be in control' she would have picked the dessert place, not shot you down and smashed your ego. If she turns down a kiss, unless it's because you tried too early, or at a bad time, cut your losses.

I'd say THIS is 90% of the problems with people in "the community":

"Don't forget the mindset. You're not out to win her, she is out to win you, and she just screwed up. Enforce that."

At some point or another, you guys began assuming that there is a war going on; that dating is something you do TO somebody, instead of with them. Nobody is out to "win" anybody. You are both going out to test compatibilty to see if it's worth taking things further. Period. You can blow smoke up your a$$ all you want by trying to convince yourself that "you are the prize, she should love to be with you", but we both know that if this were true, you wouldn't be logging into Sosuave.com. So why not view the situation as something you do together, instead of a game where you throw "tactics" at each other?


"Start with the back turn. Not just to emptiness, but to something. Flirt with the cute bartender now, or ask the guy next to you about his watch.

If you don't get a response, slowly increase the distance (both emotional and physical) but always do it while doing something else interesting or talking with someone else interesting. Do NOT just sit there waiting for her attention. She's winning if you are sacrificing your time waiting for her to pay you attention again. She must believe you don't give the salt in your tears if she talks to you again. You must be heading quickly to the point where you really don't give the salt in your tears if she talks to you again.

If enough time passes and she's not responding... NEXT."

Funny how you preceded all of that shyt with "This is really simple actually."

You're right, it is simple. If a girl likes you, she will kiss you. Even if she's not sure, she still won't dodge you and create an extremely uncomfortable situation.

-Blitz

PS: Why are you under the impression that she'd give a flying fvck either way if you "increased emotional and physical distance" if she didn't care about you enough to kiss you?

That's like saying that YOU would be suddenly chasing after a chick you're not interested just because she started increasing distance. You'd probably welcome the distance, otherwise you wouldn't have been so repulsed by the kiss to begin with.

 

[EquityPrivate]

Originally posted by al77
Exactly. Thanks!
I would rather laugh it off than neg hit with ".. you dodge really well...." thing.
I guess it is much better to joke about it than to neg hit in order to save face. If you neg hit, it is obvious that you are hurt kind of and cannot hold it. If you laugh at it - well, you are relaxed andtake it lightly. This is much better.

No, really, it's not. Everyone needs to take a step back off the formulaic approach and think a little bit.

You are only going to look hurt if you ACT hurt. It's much better to just be bored by kiss-dodges and the like.

If you just laugh off a full dodge you have demonstrated that you will stick around even through this behavior. You therefore encourage it. Your attention does not come to her at the price of a kiss (or more). It's free. That's the message. And once you've shown her that you're not going to enforce your sexual interest she's gotcha. Might as well buy her a drink now. And then take her to dinner. How is she going to learn unless you teach?

Not a power struggle? Don't be daft. It IS a power struggle, folks. But the trick is, and here's where everyone goes wrong: she wants to lose.

Let me say it again.

She wants to lose.

Do you think she goes home alone at the end of the evening and looks in the mirror and gloats "Wow, I sure told off a few losers tonight. I feel GREAT! Time for bed."

Of course not. Girls end up going home alone and lonely too, believe it or not. That's not a good night. That's a bad one. Or she has to settle for someone who isn't worthy of her if she's really needy. That's an ok night, but a worse morning.

The trick is getting them to feel like they lost to a worthy adversary. But- one who is not totally merciless. These are the secrets of the power struggle. Peace with honor. Yes, he boinks me silly, and did so the first night, but how could I resist? He was so powerful!

She wants to lose and be swept off her feet and avoid the guilt later because "he swept me off my feet." But she also wants to feel a connection. Have some romance.

Later in their history when the Romans conquered a people they didn't just slaughter them all, but rather assimilated them. Imported their culture.

You have to do the same. You have to convey that you will tolerate no nonsense, but that you have the ability to be compassionate where it is warranted. Most people give up the compassion part early, before the foreign armies are fully subdued. This is the tendency I'm seeing in this post. That gets you rebels inside the empire. You don't want rebels inside the empire. You're going to be battling the LJBF faction real fast that way.

Back to the matter at hand. Freezing out and neg use are dangerous tools in the hands of novices, but they MUST be used and must be used properly. Notice my neg hit wasn't strong. It was a light one. It could have been taken literally (she dodged me) or figuratively (she's a dodge gamey sort, "Dodgy"). Most of what I saw on here as a suggested response was either a strong re enforcement of what she just did. "You dodged me!" Or a submission. "Oh, ok, you don't want to kiss."

Both of those will get you home alone in a hurry.

It's true though, you don't have to send in the legions for the thinnest of excuses. If she had dodged the kiss and put it on her cheek instead with a little grin, then she would have gotten a smile from me with a "Oh you are a very naughty girl, aren't you?" Or something equally pseudo-sexual. Why not turn that around? You don't have to just kiss to be sexual. Flip it. It's not a refusal. She's not removing the sexual content of the kiss, she's teasing. "That's naughty. Naughty girls get spankings. Don't they?" Suddenly even the dodge was a sexual act.

But the full dodge? Ok then, I'll go take my toys and play in the other sandbox with the other kids. Why the hell would you stick around and waste your time? If you were looking for platonic female friends then go volunteer at the local nursing home. Not only will you get nice platonic female companionship, but you'll be helping the community. Otherwise, stop wasting your time.

 

[EquityPrivate]

Originally posted by xblitz44x
Funny how you preceded all of that shyt with "This is really simple actually."

The mindset is simple. The application of it is made needlessly complex in here.

You're right, it is simple. If a girl likes you, she will kiss you. Even if she's not sure, she still won't dodge you and create an extremely uncomfortable situation.

If you didn't have a "failed kiss" line or idea ready before you tried to kiss close then you just don't know what you are doing.

PS: Why are you under the impression that she'd give a flying fvck either way if you "increased emotional and physical distance" if she didn't care about you enough to kiss you?

Any number of reasons could have caused the kiss dodge. Maybe her boyfriend just happened to be watching. Or a friend who would tell her boyfriend she was sucking face with other guys. Maybe she just felt that she had a big piece of spinach in her teeth right before you leaned in. Why rule it out totally. Give her a chance to win you back. If she doesn't? NEXT.

That's like saying that YOU would be suddenly chasing after a chick you're not interested just because she started increasing distance. You'd probably welcome the distance, otherwise you wouldn't have been so repulsed by the kiss to begin with. [/B]

Again, it is the novice who assumes that a failure to kiss close is de facto due to a lack of interest. See above. Never close any door you don't have to. That's options theory. That's not so simple.

 

[EquityPrivate]

Originally posted by xblitz44x
At some point or another, you guys began assuming that there is a war going on;

When was it that you lost touch with that reality?

that dating is something you do TO somebody, instead of with them. Nobody is out to "win" anybody. You are both going out to test compatibilty to see if it's worth taking things further. Period. You can blow smoke up your a$$ all you want by trying to convince yourself that "you are the prize, she should love to be with you", but we both know that if this were true, you wouldn't be logging into Sosuave.com. So why not view the situation as something you do together, instead of a game where you throw "tactics" at each other?

When the women stop playing games and start approaching guys with "I'm really attracted to you, I want to sleep with you and I love sex and handcuffs, but I'm a little afraid of talking to you because your tall and I don't want to you think my handcuff thing is strange" then I will stop throwing "tactics." I'm not holding my breath. Meanwhile, I'll have to penetrate years of social conditioning and spend hours of guesswork to discover that she really loves to be smothered in banana frosting before being ravaged on the floor of the dining room.

As for testing compatibility, if I'm ready for the kiss and she's not, that's a compatibility issue. She gets a chance to fix that. If not? NEXT.

As for posting on Sosuave? I started posting here after having lurked her for a LONG time. I learned what I learned here, elsewhere and in the field. I have no problem with sharing. That's why people are here. To learn. Me too. No need to get greedy.

 

[xblitz44x]

"Again, it is the novice who assumes that a failure to kiss close is de facto due to a lack of interest. See above. Never close any door you don't have to. That's options theory. That's not so simple."

Nobody said to throw her out the door and forget about it. I'm just saying that making her feel 'insecure' with a neg is pointless.

Sure, if her friend is watching or has salad hanging off her teeth, she'll recover..but that's even more reason to play it cool.

"When the women stop playing games and start approaching guys with "I'm really attracted to you, I want to sleep with you and I love sex and handcuffs, but I'm a little afraid of talking to you because your tall and I don't want to you think my handcuff thing is strange" then I will stop throwing "tactics." I'm not holding my breath. Meanwhile, I'll have to penetrate years of social conditioning and spend hours of guesswork to discover that she really loves to be smothered in banana frosting before being ravaged on the floor of the dining room."

It's funny because when girls are forward and direct we assume they are "sluts" or we write them off because we think they are not challenging anymore.

I understand and agree that there has been shytty social conditioning, I just think the community is further complicating manners by developing some 'system' to fight against it, rather than understanding and working through it.

 

[EquityPrivate]

Originally posted by xblitz44x
"Again, it is the novice who assumes that a failure to kiss close is de facto due to a lack of interest. See above. Never close any door you don't have to. That's options theory. That's not so simple."

Nobody said to throw her out the door and forget about it. I'm just saying that making her feel 'insecure' with a neg is pointless.

Sure, if her friend is watching or has salad hanging off her teeth, she'll recover..but that's even more reason to play it cool.

Well, do what works for you I guess.

"When the women stop playing games and start approaching guys with "I'm really attracted to you, I want to sleep with you and I love sex and handcuffs, but I'm a little afraid of talking to you because your tall and I don't want to you think my handcuff thing is strange" then I will stop throwing "tactics." I'm not holding my breath. Meanwhile, I'll have to penetrate years of social conditioning and spend hours of guesswork to discover that she really loves to be smothered in banana frosting before being ravaged on the floor of the dining room."

It's funny because when girls are forward and direct we assume they are "sluts" or we write them off because we think they are not challenging anymore.

Speak for yourself. I wish it was this simple. I wouldn't be turned off one bit by a girl who was direct and was able to tell me what she wanted without (too much) blushing.

I understand and agree that there has been shytty social conditioning, I just think the community is further complicating manners by developing some 'system' to fight against it, rather than understanding and working through it. [/B]

Well, again, do what works for you. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. My way is not for everyone, of course. But then I am neither looking for dozens of meaningless sexual relationships nor a wedding in the next 3 months. Your goals may vary.

 

[xblitz44x]

Good debating, sir. Good luck with whatever it is you're looking for.

For the record, I'm out of the game with a girlfriend of almost a year; which is uncharted waters for me. Take care.

 

[BrotherAP]

EquityPrivate is my new favorite poster

I don't see why everybody throws up their hands and says "Oh, she must not be into me!" at the first oppurtunity. I now understand the obssession guys have on this board with always checking her interest ("Does this mean she likes me?") - they're looking for reassurance. They're constantly worrying that she wont like them, and in fact just looking for a little bit of negative reinforcement ("she wasn't giving me any kino!") before they freak out and go running for the hills with their tails tucked between their legs.

I understand a lot of guys here have been hurt by not giving up when they should have, but it sounds to me like they're still confusing desperation and persistance. They are still too tender to the sting of rejection, and the moment they smell a let-down they freeze up and forget everything.

I think everybody here needs a good lesson in persistance.

 

[al77]

Guys,

You had a good debate here. I like xblitz44x's view on it: she is not interested, just NEXT her. Although other point of view is valid too: what if she was just... confused for some reason?
Sure I should have persisted more and more later.

As a result I agree I should have said somehting like "Dodgy" or "weird". But lets consider the practical approach though - it happens in the parking lot, so after her dodge we were going to drive back to my car. Now imagine I said "Hmm. Dodgy".
What's next? I get into her car, she drive back.
What are we going to talk about? Just be quite like nothing happened?
so what kind of follow up is good?

I'd go for critisized "You dodge really well...". Yes, she sense that she can get my attention next time.. but this is cool since next time I try somehting else and apply more kino.
If I neg hit her harder, than not only it woudl be VERY awkward to sit in her car on the way back, but also it would be clear that we are not going to get together again, as if I got hurt.
I don't want to show that.
I'd rather convey a message "ok, fine. You have been dodgy today. no big deal. Lets get together another time - I will not try to kiss you ok, but I'll regroup and try something else".

Sure, it might easily turn into LJBF. But a chance of LJBF is better than feeling awkward for another half an hour and not having another chance.


More on neg hits: sure they work, but they work on whom and why? Cuz she got insecurities, an dif you neg hit works really well, and you won, in fact you just discover her weak spot. Her insecurity is nothing good. Women who respond well to neg hits, i.e. do what you want are full of insecurities and you will have to deal with her problems later.
More decent women have less insecurities and they do not respond well to neg hits. I'd rather prefer a woman who doesn't not respond to neg hits. So I don't even want to apply them.
If I do apply them, I only reinforce her insecurities... which is not what I want.

Sure, it is a clear thing: you talk to a girl, try to kiss her and she dodge. Then you neg hit her, talk to other chicks (social proof) and make her jealous...she gets back to you and ideally let you fvck her. Great? What do we have? We have a full-fledged sl*t here! Tomorrow some as* hole will kick her with a better neg hit (you know a-holes are better at neg hits) and she will fvck him.
This is not what I'd like to deal with.
If we are talking about ONS - yes, it works just fine. Otherwise by neg hitting women we would select a totally fvcked up speacies.

 

[BrotherAP]

Originally posted by al77
Guys,

You had a good debate here. I like xblitz44x's view on it: she is not interested, just NEXT her.

It's just that his view, and so many others who constantly advocate nexting a girl seem to do it based on emotional reasons and not logical reasons. In other words, they're not nexting a girl because she obviously doesn't like them, they're nexting a girl because they take it as an insult to their pride that she was busy a certain night and think they're getting revenge by nexting her.

If your inner game is solid, you won't care whether a girl flakes on you or not. Since you're not looking to her for validation, her saying yes or no to a date has no effect on you overall. Same thing goes with her dodging a kiss. What do you care? You might be trying to think of what would make her kiss you, if you really want it, and you'll be bold enough to try it becasue you're not afraid of her saying no.

 

[EquityPrivate]

Originally posted by al77
Guys,

You had a good debate here. I like xblitz44x's view on it: she is not interested, just NEXT her. Although other point of view is valid too: what if she was just... confused for some reason?
Sure I should have persisted more and more later.

As a result I agree I should have said somehting like "Dodgy" or "weird". But lets consider the practical approach though - it happens in the parking lot, so after her dodge we were going to drive back to my car. Now imagine I said "Hmm. Dodgy".
What's next? I get into her car, she drive back.
What are we going to talk about? Just be quite like nothing happened?

"Hmm. Dodgy. Ok. I'm taking you home. I've got some friends I want to see before it gets late. Let's go." Freeze. Increase distance. (The closer she gets to home the less time she has to fix the problem). Don't look back. She doesn't fix that problem by the time she's getting out of the car...? NEXT.

I'd go for critisized "You dodge really well...".

You just encouraged a behavior that you want to be discouraging.

Yes, she sense that she can get my attention next time.. but this is cool since next time I try somehting else and apply more kino.

Nono. You need to pull back. If she doesn't follow in a certain amount of time you have to disengage.

The biggest problem, in my view, with people just starting in this area is that they are NOT READY TO LEAVE THE DEAL ON THE TABLE. Chicks smell this. Immediately. The threat of you leaving MUST be credible. It simply MUST be.

If I neg hit her harder, than not only it woudl be VERY awkward to sit in her car on the way back, but also it would be clear that we are not going to get together again, as if I got hurt.
I don't want to show that.

1. You WANT awkward. You just want HER to be the one who feels it most.
2. Who says you're going to show that you're hurt? Drive alone. Play the radio. Drum your fingers on the wheel. You don't need her to be amused. You are a clever and interesting guy with stuff to do.

I'd rather convey a message "ok, fine. You have been dodgy today. no big deal. Lets get together another time - I will not try to kiss you ok, but I'll regroup and try something else".

Wrong attitude. You're just not ready to leave the deal on the table here. It's not fine that she was dodgy. You want someone who is going to kiss you. She isn't there. Just back away. Slowly. Give her a chance to fix it, otherwise bail.

Look, what kind of respect is she going to have for you if you let her get away with that?

Sure, it might easily turn into LJBF. But a chance of LJBF is better than feeling awkward for another half an hour and not having another chance.

I hear this so often I think I am going to try and coin a phrase. "Another Chance"(tm). Another Chance(tm) isn't the first step to LJBF, it's the second to last step. Another Chance(tm) is the vocabulary of the Nice Guy(tm). The Jerk(tm) doesn't know the words Another Chance.

On your kiss, she dodged. Completely. Pull back. Let her either come to you or NEXT. You're dangerously close to One-its here in my opinion and you can't seem to put yourself in the mental state to let this one go.

More on neg hits: sure they work, but they work on whom and why? Cuz she got insecurities, an dif you neg hit works really well, and you won, in fact you just discover her weak spot.

I don't know why people concentrate on the insecurity part of neg hits. Neg hits are a change-up after a lifetime of fastballs. They should NOT hit home too hard. If you know a girl has a particular thing about her feet, don't make fun of her feet. That's just mean. The point is to make her try to prove herself, not to toss her in the mud. If you have to neg hit so hard that she's pissed off, then you weren't getting anywhere with her anyhow. NEXT.

Her insecurity is nothing good. Women who respond well to neg hits, i.e. do what you want are full of insecurities and you will have to deal with her problems later.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Women who respond well to neg hits = Any HB over 8 - 8.5.

More decent women have less insecurities and they do not respond well to neg hits. I'd rather prefer a woman who doesn't not respond to neg hits. So I don't even want to apply them.

Honestly, do what works for you, but you are fooling yourself because you don't have the mindset to actually deliver effective, subtle neg-hits.

If I do apply them, I only reinforce her insecurities... which is not what I want.

Well, that's very nice of you, actually.

Sure, it is a clear thing: you talk to a girl, try to kiss her and she dodge. Then you neg hit her, talk to other chicks (social proof) and make her jealous...she gets back to you and ideally let you fvck her. Great? What do we have? We have a full-fledged sl*t here! Tomorrow some as* hole will kick her with a better neg hit (you know a-holes are better at neg hits) and she will fvck him.
This is not what I'd like to deal with.
If we are talking about ONS - yes, it works just fine. Otherwise by neg hitting women we would select a totally fvcked up speacies. [/B]

I just can't agree. First of all, you're talking about INSULTS, not neg-hits. Not ****y-funny. Just one-liners from a sitcom. That's not the approach. You need to get much more subtle.

In the end it will be a personal style issue probably.

Good luck!

 

[Julian]

just ask her "would you like to kiss me?" thats how mystery rolls.

 

[Marlimus]

just ask her "would you like to kiss me?" thats how mystery rolls.

That is taken out of context. Mystery does the kiss close after he has approached, negged, routined, isolated, kino'd, phase-shifted, paced the reality, and read the indicators of interest.

In other words, it is the culmination of a process, not to be taken in isolation.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by EquityPrivate

"Hmm. Dodgy. Ok. I'm taking you home. I've got some friends I want to see before it gets late. Let's go." Freeze. Increase distance.
Don't look back. She doesn't fix that problem by the time she's getting out of the car...? NEXT.

1. You WANT awkward. You just want HER to be the one who feels it most.
2. Who says you're going to show that you're hurt? Drive alone. Play the radio. Drum your fingers on the wheel. You don't need her to be amused. You are a clever and interesting guy with stuff to do.

On your kiss, she dodged. Completely. Pull back. Let her either come to you or NEXT. You're dangerously close to One-its here in my opinion and you can't seem to put yourself in the mental state to let this one go.
[/B]

Actually yes, I think she feels a bit awkward too. But it doesn't make sense - if I pull back she is going to do what? Change her attitude and find out she actually likes me cuz she might lose me? Ok, but isn't it what she wanted by dodging???!

Besides, now I started recalling all dodging I have seen. About 3 cases. In all of them women later were trying to "explain" it to me, that a) She is not interested cuz... or b) LBJF c) "WHat? what are you doing... it is too starighforward...bla blah blah".

I certainly agree on "pull back" and "dodgy". But "let her come to you" is not gonna happen - she _already_ showed she was not going to do that. She is not interested. I pull back and she... became interested? I am missing somehting here.

Anyway, I am thinking it is the case that no one could win.