She brings a GF into the picture.

joekerr31

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iqqi said:
You guys read into sh!t way too much.

Yeah, I guess if it was that serious, you got played.

But if it was that serious... you are far from a "dj".
iqqi, come on. how many women are there who get pursued by a guy they aren't interested in, shut him down, and then call him back up in a month of a 'lets catch up' dinner.

no women do this.

the only reason a woman would do this is

1) she's interested (in which case don't bring the friend along)
2) shes playing games (ie. wants to see if she missed out on a good thing, wants to get an ego kick of hanging with a guy she rejected, etc.)

i say its #2. i wouldn't be surprised at all if this chic perhaps was recently knocked off her pedastal by a DJ, and so now she's reconnecting with all the AFCs in her life to get her ego back up to par.
 

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I say there is a chance she's interested but shy or trying to keep the OP from expecting sex the first night out.

Bottom line: The OP has never MADE a move. All this guessing would be avoided if he just grabs his balls and goes for it. If he gets rejected, so be it. At least he would know for sure one way or the other.
 

frivolousz21

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do you see yourself marrying her? having kids with her? is that your intentions?

or do you want to get laid? or do you want a friend?`

i'm not really understanding the entire point of this...
 

iqqi

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I guess I don't see what the problem really is. She is paying for the dinner, she is obviously interesting to him, I mean what could it harm.

If some guy from my past who I was interested in at one time called me up out of the blue, invited me to dinner, and his friend showed up at the last minute... I wouldn't be mad!

Why would I be?

You guys need to be more fluid in your emotional states.

This chick shouldn't get anyones emotions riled up.

Just go with the flow. It's a night out, on her, at that!
 

MacAvoy

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iqqi said:
And its a night out with TWO hot chicks now, instead of one!

OP should feel like a pimp!!!

Typically defeatist attitude. If you think being out with 2 women that you have no chance with is pimping, then you must be either a women or the type happy not to get laid.
 

Ever onward

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MacAvoy said:
Typically defeatist attitude. If you think being out with 2 women that you have no chance with is pimping, then you must be either a women or the type happy not to get laid.
I never thought I would be siding with Iqqi.

Hey man, I've seen your posts here and I've got a lot of respect. Having said that, I have to disagree.

Women know when you want something from them. And the more you want it, the more they withhold it.

Now if you can go into a situation and be indifferent to the outcome....just enjoy it for what it is, they'll be all over that.

That probably seems a little counter to my previous post in which I said that he should have made a move. I'll clarify. If the OP is wondering about her intentions, then making a move would let him know more about that. He can still remain indifferent to the outcome of his actions. Indifference is attractive if it something you are, not something you do.
 

Mr.Positive

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iqqi said:
And its a night out with TWO hot chicks now, instead of one!

OP should feel like a pimp!!!

I've got to agree with Iqqi on this...the OP has nothing to lose. He could work this situation anyway he wants.

My guess, if you just focus on having fun, you'll have 2 women vying for your attention..

I think that the issue is trying to read into things too much.

Go have fun, flirt. Pay attention to IL, and go for the chick you want. Maybe you'll really like her friend. Maybe you'll like the waitress, who see's you with 2 hot chicks, go for her.

Going out with 2 woman is great social proof. I wouldn't read too much into this, what her intentions are, but just go have fun.

If anything, she'll see what she missed out on...a great guy.

Now, if she wanted to bring a guy friend along..whole different story.
 

STORMCLOUD

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Thanks for your responses all have some avenues worth exploring...

I think you have way too many expectations. You sound like my girl who is going to be single FOREVER cuz she always has some damned insane expectations, when noone gave her a good reason to have any.
There are no expectations on my part. It would be easy to just go to dinner and have a good time, and we did that. Am I hoping for something more? I don't know. Based on what I've dealt with in the past, I'm pretty realistic in the limits of any expectations I might have.

She was trying to manipulate you. She's putting her and her friends heads together to do it.
This is the primary purpose of my post. Why? I feel if I have an understanding of what her objective is, I can formulate my on strategy to meet my goal of at this time having a FWB.

Sounds like she also invited him out to eat for no good purpose. She probably did a lot of things for "no good purpose". Why does there have to be some grand purpose?
Because she is an AW that enjoys the game of manipulation and conquering men's hearts. Getting a feel for the grand purpose will control flow of events.

So, yeah, unless you have 5 plates spinning and no free time, just go. Her agenda (if any) is none of your concern.
I wish I could not concern myself, but what is typical of her is a desire to regain control of my heart and trample on it. I realize it and rather than be a wuss and run, I want to beat her at her own game. So far it's working but I come here for support to avoid any drop in confidence.

The OP should probably have said something along the lines of "Sorry, I thought we were just catching up, I have no interest in meeting your friend, maybe another time..." and go back to ignoring her.
I chose not to do this because it would appear that she got the best of me. Nww that I think of it. Maybe I should have told her to kiss off because it would have screwed up her game.

THis is what she was playing at -

1. She knows that you were romantically interested in her in the past. Back then she played 'hard to get' or even "impossible to get" but relished the attention that you provided in your pursuit.
Ergo ,she knows that you were hot for her, and she also assumed that you are STILL hot for her..

2. She is an AW (your statement) and so because we men understand AWs and their motivations we can assume that she would derive an ego boost from any kind of male attention - especially from YOU, a guy who has made it obvious that he wanted her in the past.
You don't "catch up" with an AW like a regular female friend - AWs only care about you as a source of 'supply' to their ego needs.

3. However she had to figure out a way to play her standard AW game - " I know you want me and I love dangling myself in front of you but staying out of reach". THis is the extreme version of the "hard to get " game ( imagine all the ego gratification and the attention and the fun she got from sitting at the same table with you - a guy who she knows wants to f**k her. )
BUT, she needed to get the ego-gasm for herself WITHOUT giving you what she ASSUMED you will want later ....

4. So, she needed a 'legit' way to get what SHE wanted by seeing you and arousing you again ( no matter if you did not feel that anymore- she assumed you did still lust after her because you accepted her dinner invite) BUT she needed someone to run defense and provide a blockade to any plans that you might have for her after the dinner date.

Hence the G/F - she was simply a c0ckblock, dude .

You got played by a cheap trick from an AW ..

It happens...
Labeling a female as an AW is pretty easy amongst the many posters here. And I know when I call her an AW I say it more from the view she is HPD/BPD. I've followed your story Jophil and relate to what you've said. YOur perspective have some strong relevance and has really opened my eyes. I've regained my focus and once again must remember they are not wired like the typical woman.

Now that's not to say that Stormcloud may have some undisclosed ulterior motive he wanted to cover during the meeting.
The only motive I had was to clear the air. Define our relationship and set the limits. I wasn't gonna be able to do that with the girlfriend there.

anyway, she brought her gf because she doesn't want to hook up with you, but she does want to know that she could still have you. in essence, for them, the dinner was like a trip to the zoo, where they got to watch the fascinating western human male AFC.
Yeah if I were acting like an AFC, but I was far from it. She probably was hoping it would roll that way, but I didn't take the bait. I kept my cool and went along. I admit it did bother me for the next few days, but what would one expect considering not seeing her for awhile and having the big let down afterwards?

This is the most important line. During the first 85% of your original post, you make it totally seem like she's some innocent chick that you've hung around with in the past but never gotten anywhere. Whereas you reveal the truth in this line.

You obviously have a long drawn out history with this broad. The reason she likely brought the g/f with her is because she doesn't trust herself emotionally around you. She brought her friend to make sure she doesn't make a mistake and go out on the line again. I would completely walk away from this broad.
I'm sorry if it came across that way. She is by far from innocent. I was just stating she was acting with good girl behavior. The history we have together is the very exact reason why I'm here. I want an idea where she's heading and how to head it off without resorting to extreme measures. Remember I want to keep the friendship but on my terms only.

no women do this.

the only reason a woman would do this is

1) she's interested (in which case don't bring the friend along)
2) shes playing games (ie. wants to see if she missed out on a good thing, wants to get an ego kick of hanging with a guy she rejected, etc.)

i say its #2. i wouldn't be surprised at all if this chic perhaps was recently knocked off her pedastal by a DJ, and so now she's reconnecting with all the AFCs in her life to get her ego back up to par.
I'm becoming convinced it's #2, too. But I think it's more about the challenge of winning me back. Because right now I'm pretty resistent to her charm. She is quite seductive and beautiful to put it bluntly. She's probably never had somebody just cut it off like I have.

That probably seems a little counter to my previous post in which I said that he should have made a move. I'll clarify. If the OP is wondering about her intentions, then making a move would let him know more about that. He can still remain indifferent to the outcome of his actions. Indifference is attractive if it something you are, not something you do.
I was about as indifferent as they come. I think her goal is to plant the seeds to regain control. This is something I am fighting. But yes I agree making the move would have ended it all. But now, I'm indecisive on whether or not I should proceed towards attempting to seal the deal or walking away completely.

Explain how indifference can be attractive.

I think that the issue is trying to read into things too much.
With an AW, you have to be a little more prepared.

I will admit when I first posted, I was bothered by the events of the other night and it got me down a little. But because of all your insights I was able to change things and see things from what my needs are. When she came into my life I was at a low point in it. My mother was on her death bed, which required many months of attention. She came along and saw opportunity. NOw, that I'm emotionally stronger I'm hoping to deal with her from the perspective of my needs only. By not giving a sh*t it will pay dividends in the end.I did contact her today and we talked briefly. Any adivice on going from here would be appreciated.

Thanks for all your input.
 

Poonani Maker

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I'm amazed at how thoughtful and smart people write on these boards. I've witnessed puke-filled AFCdom language and slobber all over themselves behavior out in the field in the real world, and almost all who post here are very cunning and correct. It's refreshing how ahead of the game we are.

I kind of wanted to agree with the girl replier here, because I've experienced girls who invite their best gfs with them so that they won't FEEL so nervous one-on-one with me. For some bizarre reason, we men can't understand, maybe it's menstrual cycles - I don't know, Women get nervous over N-o-t-h-i-n-g and need a crutch or support to lean on because they're so weak (physically And mentally). The honest ones really get nervous in a one on one. She may be a Good girl. She's just scared of you, Stormcloud. I've had a gal scared of being alone with me because she was so attracted to me, even gave me her phone number without me asking for it.

When it's her and her best friend they seem to have more fun bantering with you because they're secure. Sure it's not fair, but you're getting a free meal, and I'm usually flattered to have 2 gfs talking in another language right before my eyes. Hey, they know I'm different, that I'm the Guy sitting with them, who won't be able to understand them half the time because they're all over the place, and laughing like cackling hens. I don't hold it against them. I'm honored. They can talk about my voice and how they could listen to it all day long. And let me smell her perfume along her neckline. And fight over me. I'm honored. And whatever drugs they're currently on, I'm ok with that too. They can do that. They can do that, have a piece of me, if that makes them FEEL good.

I Feel honored.
 

STORMCLOUD

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Poonani...

You're right about the posters here. There is a sense of brotherhood. Each understanding the other's predicament and basically looking out for the well being of their fellow man.

I wish the situation was as you say, because I would have taken the approach most of you would have taken. Just take things as they come. Enjoy the moment. That's part of the reason why I didn't raise the issue of the gf tagging along at the last minute. I was hoping it was an issue of insecurities, but I tried to view this from a normal person's world, and unfortunately she's not normal.

In my view, the AW seeks attention but also seeks to harm the admirer. The thing is, and maybe somebody out there can relate, the AW both loves and hates you at the same time. They really think you are the love of their life, but they want to just wring your neck when they get the chance.

In this situation, it's a classic case of the cat and mouse game. Back and forth. Push-pull to the extreme. They suck the victim into thinking there is love between the two and then reject them ever so swiftly. The only problem is she got rejected first. Nobody was to end anything except for her. And now it's been 10 months and counting. What was a girl to do? That is why the girl friend came along. Why would she help? Because maybe when they go out on the town, she attracts many men, which spills over to the friend (who is not even close to being as attractive as she is). Keep in mind I sensed from the beginning they were up to something. The friend was rehearsed with certain things and played her role, but found herself at times venturing beyond it once she became comfortable with me. But overall something just didn't add up.

Their body language, my AW's demeanor were all contributing to a different picture than they were painting. This is the primary reason why I posted here, because it just didn't seem right. So, now I have to exit before the rejection comes. OR maybe I should play along just a little to give her her much needed attention and then withdraw. Causing her to spin out of control. You know, once again, be the DJ who knocks her off her pedestal.

I'm sure this game has been played more than once with the two of them. I think once the friend had time to evaluate who I was, she had a little guilt. Thus, the pleasant e-mail the following day. Even with this said, one could argue that AW was just insecure. Except.... This situation has played itself before.

Over a year ago, I cut her off and went for over a month without any communication. Eventually, she came around, I gave in, and we had lunch. After lunch she was completely elated that we were once again friends. I thought at that time, we could start talking. Boy was I wrong. She rebuffed my attempts to have lunch and I was cut off for a brief period.

What I do remember most is the look she gave me when I approached her. It was like a well fed lion basking in the sun. She looked totally satisifed and wanted nothing to do with me. I was brushed aside. I did e-mail her today to touch base with her and she was responsive, which was good.

It's unfortunate because maybe in all this, she is extremely insecure, and wants me to initiate things. All I know is when I do, she recoils quicker than a rattlesnake in the hot desert sun. A buddy at work said I should take the initiative and ask her out. But I think this would be playing into her plans. Unless someone out there thinks otherwise.

So, where do I go from here? I could develop the relationship with her girlfriend? This would probably bother her to no end. Since my attention is no longer directed at her. I could act needy and clingy just enough to slam the door shut on her.

Or I could just be indifferent do my own thing and if I have time for her, give it. If not, then oh well..... I could also do what some of you suggest and just go out and have fun. Forget her as any kind of interest (other than friend). And if I can work out the FWB, then cool. I kind of like the indifference thing the most because it is the closest thing to how I feel right now. Especially when the dust finally settles.

All I know is I'm continuing to spin plates. I met somebody the other night at the grocery store. It was pretty simple. She asked about my ethnicity. I responded and rather than walk away kicking myself because I didn't take advantage of her interest. I asked her out that night for a drink. She couldn't make it, but we ended up going out for that drink the next night. She ended up being a nice girl and I see the possibility of having other good times with her.

The bottom line this women isn't the only one for me, and to be validated by her own friend is probably the best testament one can receive. Could you imagine all the trash talking and her friend sitting there after meeting me and thinking this is a good guy, what's wrong with her? :crackup: By the way her friend's assessment is not necessary for me to feel good about myself.

I hope of all things somebody out there learns from this because it will keep them getting played over and over.

Thanks!
 

STORMCLOUD

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Okay Here's a little update....

I read some of the posts and decide maybe I'm overanalyzing everything. SO, I decide I'll go with the flow and see what happens.

Considering my last contact e-mail, she left an invitation to seeing other again. I decided to ask her out. I had planned to ask her out for next week, and asking her which day was convenient. She countered she was busy, and would have to see what her schedule is. Later on in the day she comes back with having dinner this week, Thursday. I'm thinking this is good. I'm receiving some IOI.

Now, I receive a call from her emphasizing it not being a date. And we are friends just hanging out basically. I played it off and ignored the comment. This seems to be a pattern with her and basically I'm at wits end with this chick.
I called and left her a voice mail message asking her to call back.

The reason why i called her was basically to tell her..... "Obviously, we both have different expectations and we should go our separate ways. There is no beef between the two of us, but that's how it's going to be." I'm willing to walk and not look back because I've been down this road before and it got me nowhere.

Since I still have time to speak with her, do some of you out there still think I should go with the flow or just have the talk and move on. My main concern is that I'm not overreacting. For all I know she could be nervous as hell and trying to sabotage everything. But my gut tells me it's all a manipulation technique to get me to chase her.

Either way I want to in some way work this to my advantage.

Any advice?
 

PlaysToWin

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Cancel the meeting without explanation and make yourself scarce. Just move on. But resist the urge to explain yourself to her. You don't need to have any 'talk'. Just leave it.

That's my advice to you.
 
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