She Blew Out the Pull, what happened?

[nicksaiz65]

I went out last weekend to do some Nightgame with my roommate. We ended up meeting two girls on the street.

With my roommate, it was instantly on to the point where he was making out with her on the street. With my girl, however…

This was a black woman.. historically me and black women haven’t gotten along too well. Not sure if that’s relevant but, black women and I have historically never gotten along.

We invited them back to an afterparty. They went with us, but the girl I was talking to refused to even hold my hand.

Bad sign.

She was yapping my ear off, but she wouldn’t reciprocate my flirting at all. Then we reached the car and she threw a million objections.

Her to my Roommate:
“You’re driving? Aren’t you drunk? What’s 7 * 4?”
“That took way too long to answer!”
“I thought it was 5 mins up the street! We have to go in the car?”
“Why are we in a parking garage?”

She then blew out the set and dragged along the friend.

My friend was like: “Damn!! What happened?”

I’m just trying to suss out why this happened in the first place. I’m not sure if this woman wasn’t attractive to me in the slightest(solution: improve SMV?) or if there’s something else technical game, or verbals wise I could be doing. It’s hard to tell sometimes. It’s just extremely frustrating when this stuff happens.

 

[SW15]

With my roommate, it was instantly on to the point where he was making out with her on the street. With my girl, however…

She then blew out the set and dragged along the friend.

I think it is a more challenging pull scenario for 2 men who are roommates to bring a 2 set of women back to the same apartment.

I've never winged with a roommate before so I would want others who might have had that experience to comment on it.

This was a black woman.. historically me and black women haven’t gotten along too well. Not sure if that’s relevant but, black women and I have historically never gotten along.

When you bring race/ethnicity into the equation, it is helpful for other posters to know your own race/ethnicity.

In general, it is easier to interact with and to seduce women within your own race/ethnicity. Most men find their successful attraction/seduction rate is highest with women of their own race/ethnicity.

I am a White male. I don't have a lot of advice on Black women. I'm rarely ever interested in a Black woman.

I find White and Hispanic/Latina women most physically attractive. The majority of my interactions with White women and a small percentage are with Hispanic women. Over 90% of my interactions are with White women.

Black men are usually well set up for success with Black women. When Black men interact with Black women, the interaction feels different than a White/Hispanic/Asian man interacting with a Black woman.

One unique factor about Black women is that they are rarely pursued by non-Black men.

Black women culturally are quite different from White women.

she threw a million objections.

She then blew out the set and dragged along the friend.

There's often a penis blocker in 2 or 3 set. Penis blockers in a set can be any race/ethnicity.

I’m just trying to suss out why this happened in the first place. I’m not sure if this woman wasn’t attractive to me in the slightest(solution: improve SMV?) or if there’s something else technical game, or verbals wise I could be doing. It’s hard to tell sometimes. It’s just extremely frustrating when this stuff happens.

she wouldn’t reciprocate my flirting at all.

What this sounds like to me is a situation where there's a penis blocker. The penis blocker friend was being a penis blocker because she wasn't attracted to you.

Additionally, this was a difficult game situation in general. This wasn't pure night game. Night game is typically considered the inside of nightlife venues. This was a street approach at night. The street in general is the most difficult venue for approaching.

One particular woman not being attracted to you during a street approach (and also a street approach during darkness - an even more difficult time) isn't an event that can lead to a reasonable conclusion about anything.

The only conclusion is that one woman on a street in a nightlife venue district wasn't attracted to you somewhere between 11 PM - 3 AM.

 

[Barrister]

OP,

@SW15 did a pretty good job of breaking down that whole interaction. What I will simply say is that it isn’t worth losing sleep over due to a single woman not being interested in you and sabotaging your set. There could be a million reasons why she wasn’t feeling it - or, especially considering she’s a woman, there may be none at all and she just has a bizarre, challenging personality that you were best avoiding anyway.

Move on. Way better women out there and there doesn’t sound like there was anything wrong with your approach.

 

[SW15]

there doesn’t sound like there was anything wrong with your approach.

Blaine Anderson (a fish trying to teach men to catch fish) made a valid point on one of her YouTube Shorts about this. There are times when a man is doing everything correct and he will still fail on approaches.

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Blaine Anderson's example was an example of why non-bar approaching (typically done during daylight/early evening hours) is horribly inefficient though. The majority of women between ages 18-49 aren't seeking new penis at the moment they are approached in a non-bar setting. That is a major disincentive for doing non-bar approaching.

Blaine herself is a married woman. Blaine was playing pickleball with 3 other women. Those 3 women were a combination of married women or unmarried women in exclusive LTRs. None of the women were seeking new penis at the moment.

Blaine's situation was a situation where 2 men approached 4 women likely at a public park with pickleball courts. While Blaine credited the men with doing the right things in their approach game, it's somewhere between unclear and inaccurate whether those men did the right thing.

We don't know where this park was. Was this park in a suburban neighborhood? Was this a park in a singles dense urban neighborhood? While most non-bar approaching is inefficient, picking the right venues/neighborhoods for doing approaching will make a difference.

2 men approaching a group of 4 women isn't ideal in either nightlife venues or non-bar venues. It's better when 2 men approach a group of 2 women like in @nicksaiz65 's case. Larger groups tend to be more inefficient. However, in that non-bar setting, it might be possible for the 2 men to find 2 single women in a group of 4. However, it would have been more probable in a nightlife venues group of 4 as compared to a group of 4 in a non-bar setting.

In non-bar approaching, it's very difficult to find women who are available at any given moment. In Blaine's situation, it seems like the women announced their statuses to the men. In most approach scenarios, most women are standoffish and will try to force the conversation to die within 30-60 seconds before a date offer can be made. This is the soft no as compared to the hard no. Most women in non-bar settings aren't seeking new penis at the moment, aren't going to engage in conversation with men, and also aren't going to reveal their relationship status in the interaction.

 

[Barrister]

Blaine Anderson (a fish trying to teach men to catch fish) made a valid point on one of her YouTube Shorts about this. There are times when a man is doing everything correct and he will still fail on approaches.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Blaine Anderson's example was an example of why non-bar approaching (typically done during daylight/early evening hours) is horribly inefficient though. The majority of women between ages 18-49 aren't seeking new penis at the moment they are approached in a non-bar setting. That is a major disincentive for doing non-bar approaching.

Blaine herself is a married woman. Blaine was playing pickleball with 3 other women. Those 3 women were a combination of married women or unmarried women in exclusive LTRs. None of the women were seeking new penis at the moment.

Blaine's situation was a situation where 2 men approached 4 women likely at a public park with pickleball courts. While Blaine credited the men with doing the right things in their approach game, it's somewhere between unclear and inaccurate whether those men did the right thing.

We don't know where this park was. Was this park in a suburban neighborhood? Was this a park in a singles dense urban neighborhood? While most non-bar approaching is inefficient, picking the right venues/neighborhoods for doing approaching will make a difference.

2 men approaching a group of 4 women isn't ideal in either nightlife venues or non-bar venues. It's better when 2 men approach a group of 2 women like in @nicksaiz65 's case. Larger groups tend to be more inefficient. However, in that non-bar setting, it might be possible for the 2 men to find 2 single women in a group of 4. However, it would have been more probable in a nightlife venues group of 4 as compared to a group of 4 in a non-bar setting.

In non-bar approaching, it's very difficult to find women who are available at any given moment. In Blaine's situation, it seems like the women announced their statuses to the men. In most approach scenarios, most women are standoffish and will try to force the conversation to die within 30-60 seconds before a date offer can be made. This is the soft no as compared to the hard no. Most women in non-bar settings aren't seeking new penis at the moment, aren't going to engage in conversation with men, and also aren't going to reveal their relationship status in the interaction.

This is anecdotal (and somewhat piggybacking off of what you said), but I have found when I am cold approaching with a wingman, it usually works better if one of us opens rather than both walking up at once and opening together. I think women tend to be more resistant to approaches in general if multiple men are approaching at once. I don’t know the psychology behind that, but I have observed there always seems to be greater resistance from a group approach than one done by a single man.

In this situation, the second guy can join after - and usually the board has already been set as far as who the first guy is going to go for which is the disadvantage. But it tends to work better IMO.

 

[BadBoy89]

This was a black woman.. historically me and black women haven’t gotten along too well. Not sure if that’s relevant but, black women and I have historically never gotten along.

I’m just trying to suss out why this happened in the first place.

It happened because she was black.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Speaking as a white guy, black women are more difficult than usual when there are a lot of pretty, white blonde women around whom they have to compete with. I assume Nashville is the same as Arizona in this regard.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Agree with SW15. If she’s with a friend that doesn’t get male attention regularly, you are in for a long night. That’s just how they are.

 

[Clockwerk50]

With Black women especially, you gotta come correct. The energy, the presence, the vibe—if it’s off or feels lazy, you’re getting tested. And that girl wasn’t just being difficult, she was shooting you with questions to see if you’d fold. You got **** tested hard, and instead of leaning in with grounded confidence, it sounds like you got thrown off.

In my experience, if you are not black, they just feel a little bit insecure as to why you want them and they just want to confirm your motive.

 

[BPH]

@nicksaiz65 it looks like everybody already answered your question, but I have one for you - why are you still doing approaches with a wingman?

You've written posts complaining about this dynamic being unsuccessful before, so why are you still doing it? You have to meet a girl you're attracted enough to, have her be single/lie about being single, have her be interested in you AKA her "type", and you have to escalate properly to the point where you can leave to have sex...and with a wingman, you have to get lucky enough to multiply all those things by 2.

In this case, it sounds like you weren't even interested in your girl; she was just the friend of the girl who hit it off with your roommate, so you get the grenade by default.

Why?

I like going out with my friends as much as anyone else, but I'm not relying on them to introduce me to some girl's friend, nor trying to find a group with a friend who likes my friend enough.

I feel like you're adding a level of difficulty to this process that really isn't necessary.

 

[SW15]

@nicksaiz65 -- why are you still doing approaches with a wingman?

I often roll solo to bars without a wingman. I prefer approaching in bars with a wingman. Most women go to bars in groups. Approaching a group of 2-3 women with another guy is somewhat easier.

I have had subpar wingmen before. One night, I went to a bar with a male friend who was engaged at that moment and a few months away from his wedding day. He did a subpar job distracting the penis blocking friends in groups.

Now, I'm in my early 40s. All my local male friends are married men who have zero interest in attending bars with me. Most of the married men have children. I know some childless married men.

I have had the wingman issue for years.

In non-bar approaching, I don't recommend the use of a wingman.

In this case, it sounds like you weren't even interested in your girl; she was just the friend of the girl who hit it off with your roommate, so you get the grenade by default.

That's an awful situation that should be avoided.

 

[Clockwerk50]

In this case, it sounds like you weren't even interested in your girl; she was just the friend of the girl who hit it off with your roommate, so you get the grenade by default.

In which brings the discussion about the follower and leader dynamic. OP is most likely the “wingman” in the relationship.

 

[BPH]

In which brings the discussion about the follower and leader dynamic. OP is most likely the “wingman” in the relationship.

Yeah I'd agree with that. A lot of the situations OP describes sound like he's the victim of circumstances he didn't choose to be a part of.

 

[nicksaiz65]

When you bring race/ethnicity into the equation, it is helpful for other posters to know your own race/ethnicity.

In general, it is easier to interact with and to seduce women within your own race/ethnicity. Most men find their successful attraction/seduction rate is highest with women of their own race/ethnicity.

I am a White male. I don't have a lot of advice on Black women. I'm rarely ever interested in a Black woman.

I find White and Hispanic/Latina women most physically attractive. The majority of my interactions with White women and a small percentage are with Hispanic women. Over 90% of my interactions are with White women.

Black men are usually well set up for success with Black women. When Black men interact with Black women, the interaction feels different than a White/Hispanic/Asian man interacting with a Black woman.

One unique factor about Black women is that they are rarely pursued by non-Black men.

Black women culturally are quite different from White women.

Whoops. For those who don't know, I am African American myself.

I've actually found the opposite situation. It seems that white women are the most receptive to me and black women will typically reject me.

What this sounds like to me is a situation where there's a penis blocker. The penis blocker friend was being a penis blocker because she wasn't attracted to you.

Additionally, this was a difficult game situation in general. This wasn't pure night game. Night game is typically considered the inside of nightlife venues. This was a street approach at night. The street in general is the most difficult venue for approaching.

One particular woman not being attracted to you during a street approach (and also a street approach during darkness - an even more difficult time) isn't an event that can lead to a reasonable conclusion about anything.

The only conclusion is that one woman on a street in a nightlife venue district wasn't attracted to you somewhere between 11 PM - 3 AM.

I can live with this. Just a c0ckblock, not much we can do about it.

 

[nicksaiz65]

2 men approaching a group of 4 women isn't ideal in either nightlife venues or non-bar venues. It's better when 2 men approach a group of 2 women like in @nicksaiz65 's case. Larger groups tend to be more inefficient. However, in that non-bar setting, it might be possible for the 2 men to find 2 single women in a group of 4. However, it would have been more probable in a nightlife venues group of 4 as compared to a group of 4 in a non-bar setting.

I've found in nightlife venues, approaching the big groups to be difficult. Still working on it.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Speaking as a white guy, black women are more difficult than usual when there are a lot of pretty, white blonde women around whom they have to compete with. I assume Nashville is the same as Arizona in this regard.

Yeah, I have had a tough time with most black women. White women are much more receptive to me, for whatever reason.

 

[nicksaiz65]

@nicksaiz65 it looks like everybody already answered your question, but I have one for you - why are you still doing approaches with a wingman?

You've written posts complaining about this dynamic being unsuccessful before, so why are you still doing it? You have to meet a girl you're attracted enough to, have her be single/lie about being single, have her be interested in you AKA her "type", and you have to escalate properly to the point where you can leave to have sex...and with a wingman, you have to get lucky enough to multiply all those things by 2.

In this case, it sounds like you weren't even interested in your girl; she was just the friend of the girl who hit it off with your roommate, so you get the grenade by default.

Why?

I like going out with my friends as much as anyone else, but I'm not relying on them to introduce me to some girl's friend, nor trying to find a group with a friend who likes my friend enough.

I feel like you're adding a level of difficulty to this process that really isn't necessary.

Fair questions. I can give you a few reasons as to why this happened:
1.) This was a Friday or Saturday night. I usually do all of my solo sessions during the week(roommate isn't interested in going out during the week anymore, would rather work on his business or do other things) and he'll want to go out 1 or 2 of the weekend days. Any other time, I am solo though. I don't want to be over reliant on wings and need to have the ability to go out solo.

2.) I agree with your points on 2 times the people meaning two times the obstacles. However, when out solo, two of the biggest issues I'm having are:
- When out without a wing, and approaching a group, the friends will often jump in and aggressively c0ckblock. I'm still working on the strategy that you suggested against this.
- I'm still struggling with pulling girls from groups while out solo. I need to try your strategy of going over to the girl's place. It still feels pretty tough though.

These are two massive holes in my game while out solo, so I definitely need to plug them if I want to have success.

In this case, it sounds like you weren't even interested in your girl; she was just the friend of the girl who hit it off with your roommate, so you get the grenade by default.

Why?

I like going out with my friends as much as anyone else, but I'm not relying on them to introduce me to some girl's friend, nor trying to find a group with a friend who likes my friend enough.

Addressing the girl.. I'll admit she was attractive but her nasty attitude instantly turned me off tbh.

 

[BPH]

Fair questions. I can give you a few reasons as to why this happened:
1.) This was a Friday or Saturday night. I usually do all of my solo sessions during the week(roommate isn't interested in going out during the week anymore, would rather work on his business or do other things) and he'll want to go out 1 or 2 of the weekend days. Any other time, I am solo though. I don't want to be over reliant on wings and need to have the ability to go out solo.

2.) I agree with your points on 2 times the people meaning two times the obstacles. However, when out solo, two of the biggest issues I'm having are:
- When out without a wing, and approaching a group, the friends will often jump in and aggressively c0ckblock. I'm still working on the strategy that you suggested against this.
- I'm still struggling with pulling girls from groups while out solo. I need to try your strategy of going over to the girl's place. It still feels pretty tough though.

These are two massive holes in my game while out solo, so I definitely need to plug them if I want to have success.


Addressing the girl.. I'll admit she was attractive but her nasty attitude instantly turned me off tbh.

I would wager that your solo sessions aren't going well BECAUSE you're doing them during the week.

I cannot remember the last time I had a one-night-stand or a same-day-lay during the week. Weekends are when people don't have to worry about getting up the next morning for work, just got their paycheck and can have a little fun, etc.

You might find success by simply doing what you're doing solo, just on the weekends at a bar or club when hooking up is a normal thing. Furthermore, you wouldn't be relegated to picking up whatever leftovers your roommate leaves when he goes and talks to the women he wants.

As far as the aggressive blocking goes, if you present yourself well and the girl gives you time of day, her friends will often let her have her moment with you, maybe after a short introduction. If they hover, block, ask too many questions, or take over the conversation, it's probably best to move on to somebody else since that pattern will continue with that friend group the entire night.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I would wager that your solo sessions aren't going well BECAUSE you're doing them during the week.

I cannot remember the last time I had a one-night-stand or a same-day-lay during the week. Weekends are when people don't have to worry about getting up the next morning for work, just got their paycheck and can have a little fun, etc.

You might find success by simply doing what you're doing solo, just on the weekends at a bar or club when hooking up is a normal thing. Furthermore, you wouldn't be relegated to picking up whatever leftovers your roommate leaves when he goes and talks to the women he wants.

I’m down to do this. I can definitely go out solo on the weekends like you’re doing.

Curious, would you say these mid-week sessions I’ve been doing are a waste of time in that case? I’ve been doing them because I’m on a 90 day challenge where I want to do a minimum of one approach a day. (Plus work is driving me crazy so I just enjoy going out.)

As far as the aggressive blocking goes, if you present yourself well and the girl gives you time of day, her friends will often let her have her moment with you, maybe after a short introduction. If they hover, block, ask too many questions, or take over the conversation, it's probably best to move on to somebody else since that pattern will continue with that friend group the entire night.

The c0ckblocks have been a major issue. But I’m hoping with practice I’ll be able to naturally implement this.

 

[BPH]

Curious, would you say these mid-week sessions I’ve been doing are a waste of time in that case?

I mean, they don't hurt, but if you value your time, I'd say they're a bit of a waste, yeah, especially if you're spending a pretty penny going out this often.

The only times I can recall going out during the week were during college syllabus week, and on vacation each year in Ocean City - because I'm literally on vacation and don't have work. However, I usually have to wait until Thursday onward to see any level of quality when it comes to the women.

The c0ckblocks have been a major issue. But I’m hoping with practice I’ll be able to naturally implement this.

That probably comes down to your approach. When I go up to groups, I tell the one I'm interested in that I think she's attractive, quickly greet the group and ask their names while telling them mine, then go right back to talking to the one I want - ignoring the others completely unless they force their way into the conversation.

90% of the time they'll divert their attention to whichever friends in the group I'm not actively hitting on and continue about their night until our conversation ends, or progresses.