Sexual Marketplace Evolution

[BaronOfHair]

They buy it off credit/installment payments

Far be it from me to try and persuade supposed adults that multiple game systems and streaming services are essential to their survival. I still find myself annoyed when these same folks pretend they had no role in their own destitution though

 

[GoodMan32]

You're correct. This is the right thread.



I can see your point of view.

Some aspects will change/correct to some extent as Millennials age and Gen Z gets deeper into their 20s/30s. I think that's a reasonable expectation. I'm still trying to figure out my own vision of the future and how I see it all evolving.

The post you quoted above isn't meant to be my comprehensive view.

I don't think mid-tier men are going to do much better in the future. It might happen for mid-tier Millennials men in the 2030s who are willing to date aging Millennial women in the 2030s. I can't see much beyond the 2030s right now. There might be a slight improvement for Gen Z mid-tier men but I'm struggling to see how that will play out right now. It might seem like I tend to think there's no light at the end of the tunnel, but this is simply a matter of the fact that I'm struggling to see the future at the moment.

I hope this thread continues as I think it is a good thought exercise to help me start to get a better vision of my own in the future.

I would like to be optimistic and see more utilization of offline methods in early stage dating/mating in the future. The pessimistic version of me has a difficult time seeing that as I walk around outdoors seeing nearly all women using earbuds/headphones.

You're well-aware of my age preference. If being willing to get with an aging woman will help a mid-tier Millennial man in the 2030s, that's good news for me.

Your last paragraph is gold. App-related minglings are becoming more and more of an aggravation (for both genders; men because the vast majority of us are unable to compete on apps in 2024, broads because of the sheer amount of suitors they need to sift through).

The earbud thing is a problem too. Even 20 years ago when I was in middle school, people wore headphones. But wearing headphones 24/7 was basically unheard of back then. Plus, even when wearing headphones 20 years ago, the headphones were bulkier. So you at least knew who was wearing headphones at first glance. On the other hand, with how tiny earbuds are, they aren't always noticeable right away. As a result, a man might shoot his shot on a woman without noticing her earbuds. In which case, 1 of 2 things will happen (neither of which are good):

1. The broad totally ignores him, either on purpose or because she simply didn't hear him.

2. The broad takes an earbud out, which makes the man feel rude (once he realizes he disturbed whatever she was listening to). AND it makes the woman peeved by the fact he disturbed whatever she was listening to. As a result, even if she's physically attracted to him, he's unlikely to get anywhere with her.

 

[SW15]

App-related minglings are becoming more and more of an aggravation (for both genders; men because the vast majority of us are unable to compete on apps in 2024, broads because of the sheer amount of suitors they need to sift through).

They've been aggravating for a long time. Also, the dating websites in the late 2000s were also like this, except fewer people used websites back then. Men have always been at a disadvantage online (either websites or apps). Women have always had abundance online (either websites or apps). The downsides are now more well known because they've been going on longer.

The earbud thing is a problem too. Even 20 years ago when I was in middle school, people wore headphones. But wearing headphones 24/7 was basically unheard of back then. Plus, even when wearing headphones 20 years ago, the headphones were bulkier. So you at least knew who was wearing headphones at first glance. On the other hand, with how tiny earbuds are, they aren't always noticeable right away. As a result, a man might shoot his shot on a woman without noticing her earbuds. In which case, 1 of 2 things will happen (neither of which are good):

1. The broad totally ignores him, either on purpose or because she simply didn't hear him.

2. The broad takes an earbud out, which makes the man feel rude (once he realizes he disturbed whatever she was listening to). AND it makes the woman peeved by the fact he disturbed whatever she was listening to. As a result, even if she's physically attracted to him, he's unlikely to get anywhere with her.

Earbuds are a problem in the approaching environment. Earbuds (usually accompanying cell phones) have been awful for game. Earbuds have made the general gym floor, parks, and paths more difficult as non-bar approach venues.

I don't see the earbud problem exactly as you see it. We agree at the highest level though.

I have rarely had the issue of shooting my shot without realizing a woman was using earbuds. At most, this has happened 1-2 times lifetime. I'm struggling to remember an approach when this happened.

Let's compare the general gym floor at most gyms now to the early to mid 2000s. During the era in which I was in college (2001-2005), I went to my university's gym. At this time, only the most attractive women wore iPods at the on-campus gym. In the early 2000s, personal music devices with headphones had been around since the Walkman of the 1980s, but they weren't nearly as convenient as the iPod or later the iPhone, which is why fewer people wore them.

By the time that I arrived in Dallas in the early 2010s, nearly all women at gyms were using headphones/earbuds on the general gym floor.

I have noticed more women using earbuds on walking paths and in parks since the early 2010s.

If we take this back to the general topic, we have to say that daygame will not improve substantially unless there's a behavioral change surrounding headphones/earbuds.

 

[GoodMan32]

They've been aggravating for a long time. Also, the dating websites in the late 2000s were also like this, except fewer people used websites back then. Men have always been at a disadvantage online (either websites or apps). Women have always had abundance online (either websites or apps). The downsides are now more well known because they've been going on longer.



Earbuds are a problem in the approaching environment. Earbuds (usually accompanying cell phones) have been awful for game. Earbuds have made the general gym floor, parks, and paths more difficult as non-bar approach venues.

I don't see the earbud problem exactly as you see it. We agree at the highest level though.

I have rarely had the issue of shooting my shot without realizing a woman was using earbuds. At most, this has happened 1-2 times lifetime. I'm struggling to remember an approach when this happened.

Let's compare the general gym floor at most gyms now to the early to mid 2000s. During the era in which I was in college (2001-2005), I went to my university's gym. At this time, only the most attractive women wore iPods at the on-campus gym. In the early 2000s, personal music devices with headphones had been around since the Walkman of the 1980s, but they weren't nearly as convenient as the iPod or later the iPhone, which is why fewer people wore them.

By the time that I arrived in Dallas in the early 2010s, nearly all women at gyms were using headphones/earbuds on the general gym floor.

I have noticed more women using earbuds on walking paths and in parks since the early 2010s.

If we take this back to the general topic, we have to say that daygame will not improve substantially unless there's a behavioral change surrounding headphones/earbuds.

Right, even in the archaic days of online dating, there was an element of abundance for broads.

The fact just about every Average Joe has dabbled with dating sites by now (whereas dating sites were still somewhat rare 15 years ago) has made the abundance problem a lot more pronounced.

I've never done an approach without realizing the broad was wearing earbuds (probably because I don't do much in the way of approaching). There have been platonic settings where I didn't notice the other party's earbuds, however (Not saying it's happened a whole lot)

I understand earbuds being popular at the gym or at airports/on airplanes.

Anywhere outside in public (parks, trails, or merely walking around outside), on the other hand, earbuds pose a safety issue. It really is absurd how common earbuds are in these settings.

Unfortunately, you're probably right. Until we've solved the earbud question (which appears to be unsolvable), daygame is going to take a massive hit.

 

[SW15]

Until we've solved the earbud question (which appears to be unsolvable), daygame is going to take a massive hit.

I believe the earbud problem is unsolvable and is likely to affect daygame in a few forms in the future.

Over time, the grocery store has been the daygame venue where I have arranged the most first dates. Very few women wear earbuds in the grocery store. The problem with grocery store game is that it's unadvisable to spend hours at a time in there doing daygame.

A healthy amount of grocery store game in a week is an hour in one grocery store and then an hour in a different brand store within 1-2 days.

When doing grocery store game, it's necessary to buy some groceries during the visit. It's not like the mall where it's possible to go to a store and not buy anything.

It's very difficult to have grocery stores be the only venue for game. A grocery store approacher usually needs to supplement at bars or other daygame venues.

I think run clubs are going to turn into kickball leagues. Overhyped and ineffective.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Reganomics works FYI

Much of "Reganomics" is really textbook "Classic Liberalism", some of which was already taking place in the latter portion of The Carter Administration. Dutch's ramping up The Drug War, and the raging hard-on most tradcons continue to have for criminalizing, isn't consistent with these same economic principles

Bringing this back around to the subject of The OP: Technology has made it possible for many young women to make a quick buck by, quite literally, putting their asses up on social media. Luckily for us men, we're under no obligation to date broads like these

 

[SW15]

Bringing this back around to the subject of The OP: Technology has made it possible for many young women to make a quick buck by, quite literally, putting their asses up on social media. Luckily for us men, we're under no obligation to date broads like these

Sugar daddy game has become more mainstream since the 2010s.

Women are using technology to make money off of sexually frustrated men from OnlyFans and Instagram.

The guys who are OnlyFans pay pigs are men who can't get dates/relationships from conventional dating. These are men failing on the swipe apps and at the bars.

A part of me thinks OnlyFans is a bit of a bubble for women. However, simping doesn't show a lot of signs of slowing down.

Simping happens due to sexual frustration and I am having a difficult time seeing a future sexual marketplace with fewer sexually frustrated men.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Far be it from me to try and persuade supposed adults that multiple game systems and streaming services are essential to their survival. I still find myself annoyed when these same folks pretend they had no role in their own destitution though

People gotta live somehow. Standard of livings aren’t as fast to adapt.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Dating apps are on their way out and with that goes women's ability to hyper select and a lot of male desperation gets recompressed

I think as a society we've picked up a lot of bad habits and cultures through dating apps and social media that are going to need to be reset

The view does seem to be shifting now as people tire cliches on these apps , theres been multiple viral skits floating around for a while taking the pi$$ out of both stereotypical male and female profiles

As the old adage goes...... " it's funny because its true"

A similar thing is happening on social media with the iconic "selfie" & "thirst trap" these have become corny and outdated and are becoming more of a low value marker which is starting to force a lot of women to avoid this behaviour.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do think we've seen a massive and unsustainable rise in female dating standards over the last 10 years ( note I say dating not sex ) , this has made casual dating become very difficult and standoffish as you have women expecting the earth the moon and the stars and men who are becoming increasingly cautious about being sucked into something that's built on sand.

I mean I don't "date" much but I took a chick out from a cold approach the other week

The date seemed on the surface to go very well , we had fun , kissed, she text me saying she was excited for the next one

But as the week went on something just felt off for me .....her messaging was all over the place and erratic I slammed the breaks on and didn't offer another date...... sure enough within a few days I got a " I'm not sure I'm feeling this"

if I was less switched on I think she would have happily dragged this on for a second and third date which could have set me back ££££

I have no real idea why this interaction fell apart I suspect there was another guy somewhere in the picture, but this short tale is a very common example of modern dating and how unnecessarily complex it's gotten

10-20 years ago it was men entertaining multiple women , now its very much women entertaining multiple men and the problem is they don't do a very good job of it

 

[Divorced w 3]

Strauss–Howe generational theory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[BackInTheGame78]

@SW15 shared this synopsis of the history of the sexual marketplace on another thread. I thought it was a very accurate assement. Hopefully he doesn't mind me making a new thread with it, as I didn't want to derail the other one.

My question to everyone is, where do you see the sexual marketplace headed?

@Solomon you are our resident predictor of the future. I'm counting on you!

We are seeing the very beginning of the end for the dating apps and this is a good thing. Perhaps they will go away, most likely they will have to change how they function if they want to stay in the fold. I could see dating apps geared toward common interests being something worth developing.

Women over inflating their values on social media will fade into the past as well because social media will become less relevant. Facebook has a huge problem on the horizon as their user base lacks young people to sustain its user base as older users die off. There is already data out there showing less engagement, and less personal posting on social media. As soon as they connect poor mental health to social media usage you will see more of a decline. Its no different than tobacco when they put warning labels on the harmful effects of it.

Also the bar/club business isn't as strong as it used to be. The 20-30yo crowd doesn't congregate in those places like they once did. Men approaching women in bars isn't as common nor successful as it once was. We've already seen how the decline in this industry has effected the sexual marketplace.

The economy is always a big driver. Here in the USA its getting harder to pay the bills on your own. The American dream of a house, family, and picket fence is long gone. Will economic struggles drive relationships? It has in the past. Will you see younger women get with older men due to the resources they can offer? Perhaps more young men will get with older women also for resources. Sugar daddy dating has increased in popularity and acceptance.

I'm not sure what the future looks like exactly, but I do think it will be more natural, organic, and resource based. I also think there will be less sex. Everything in life comes full circle, it just looks a little different the second time around.

Let's rephrase that.

It's getting harder for people who think they can expect to choose the city where they live without earning enough money to do so.

Where you live is a choice. If you are living in a city that is extremely expensive then you better have a job that is paying you above average money to afford it.

If you don't then you simply can't afford it. Trying to cry about not having any money when you are paying 60% of your monthly income to a rent/mortgage payment and then trying to blame everyone else other than themselves is idiotic.

There is nobody that is going to come in and save you when you can't make basic sound financial decisions for yourself.

Financial literacy is at an all time low amongst Americans and their view that they are entitled to live wherever they want even if they can't afford it and then throw a b!tch fest about everyone and everything when they can't instead of moving to a place that they can afford it is both idiotic and mind numbingly dumb.

If you can't afford to live in San Francisco making 60K a year then move somewhere that you can afford to live. It's really not that hard.

IMO, most of the hard economic times Americans go thru come from poor financial decisions they make.

 

[plumber]

Evolution is indeed working. In our case it is sexual based evolution.

The stronger are successful and the weaker are not. No real mystery, albeit some are unhappy about how it works.

Its actually getting more focused again, with more reproduction ATTEMPS from stronger and less from weaker.

No mystery. It is difficult to be one of the weaker and accept the truth.

How can we compete against evolution.... best way ever tried is religion.

 

[BaronOfHair]

People gotta live somehow

They can start by buying fewer X Boxes, and subscribing to less streaming services

 

[GoodMan32]

Sugar daddy game has become more mainstream since the 2010s.

Women are using technology to make money off of sexually frustrated men from OnlyFans and Instagram.

The guys who are OnlyFans pay pigs are men who can't get dates/relationships from conventional dating. These are men failing on the swipe apps and at the bars.

A part of me thinks OnlyFans is a bit of a bubble for women. However, simping doesn't show a lot of signs of slowing down.

Simping happens due to sexual frustration and I am having a difficult time seeing a future sexual marketplace with fewer sexually frustrated men.

You're right, simping comes from a combination of sexual frustration and inability to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

For that matter, a lot of trends that could be described as toxic come from failure to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[GoodMan32]

Dating apps are on their way out and with that goes women's ability to hyper select and a lot of male desperation gets recompressed

I think as a society we've picked up a lot of bad habits and cultures through dating apps and social media that are going to need to be reset

The view does seem to be shifting now as people tire cliches on these apps , theres been multiple viral skits floating around for a while taking the pi$$ out of both stereotypical male and female profiles

As the old adage goes...... " it's funny because its true"

A similar thing is happening on social media with the iconic "selfie" & "thirst trap" these have become corny and outdated and are becoming more of a low value marker which is starting to force a lot of women to avoid this behaviour.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do think we've seen a massive and unsustainable rise in female dating standards over the last 10 years ( note I say dating not sex ) , this has made casual dating become very difficult and standoffish as you have women expecting the earth the moon and the stars and men who are becoming increasingly cautious about being sucked into something that's built on sand.

I mean I don't "date" much but I took a chick out from a cold approach the other week

The date seemed on the surface to go very well , we had fun , kissed, she text me saying she was excited for the next one

But as the week went on something just felt off for me .....her messaging was all over the place and erratic I slammed the breaks on and didn't offer another date...... sure enough within a few days I got a " I'm not sure I'm feeling this"

if I was less switched on I think she would have happily dragged this on for a second and third date which could have set me back ££££

I have no real idea why this interaction fell apart I suspect there was another guy somewhere in the picture, but this short tale is a very common example of modern dating and how unnecessarily complex it's gotten

10-20 years ago it was men entertaining multiple women , now its very much women entertaining multiple men and the problem is they don't do a very good job of it

My last date was similar. The broad wanted a 2nd date, yet then her attitude went downhill before the 2nd date had a chance to happen. I then put my foot on the brakes when I could sense we had reached the point of no return (To which she insisted her angry attitude was coming from something totally unrelated to me; at which point I told her to forget what I just said about parting ways. Unfortunately, it was too late. The broad essentially said "Nope, you already proposed parting ways." What a b1tch)

One interesting question I suppose we'll never know the answer to is "What would our trajectory have been like if I hadn't proposed parting ways?"

You're right when you say it used to be men entertaining multiple broads. Even I managed to do that in college.

 

[GoodMan32]

Let's rephrase that.

It's getting harder for people who think they can expect to choose the city where they live without earning enough money to do so.

Where you live is a choice. If you are living in a city that is extremely expensive then you better have a job that is paying you above average money to afford it.

If you don't then you simply can't afford it. Trying to cry about not having any money when you are paying 60% of your monthly income to a rent/mortgage payment and then trying to blame everyone else other than themselves is idiotic.

There is nobody that is going to come in and save you when you can't make basic sound financial decisions for yourself.

Financial literacy is at an all time low amongst Americans and their view that they are entitled to live wherever they want even if they can't afford it and then throw a b!tch fest about everyone and everything when they can't instead of moving to a place that they can afford it is both idiotic and mind numbingly dumb.

If you can't afford to live in San Francisco making 60K a year then move somewhere that you can afford to live. It's really not that hard.

IMO, most of the hard economic times Americans go thru come from poor financial decisions they make.

Some of us need to live where we can, regardless of price.

I don't drive. And I have a medical condition that makes it highly recommended I live in a place with mild winters.

Relatively few places fit the bill of mild winters and able to get by without a car.

 

[GoodMan32]

Evolution is indeed working. In our case it is sexual based evolution.

The stronger are successful and the weaker are not. No real mystery, albeit some are unhappy about how it works.

Its actually getting more focused again, with more reproduction ATTEMPS from stronger and less from weaker.

No mystery. It is difficult to be one of the weaker and accept the truth.

How can we compete against evolution.... best way ever tried is religion.

Here's the thing though: As I said on another thread, even I fully believe my hypothetical children are better off if I refrain from reproducing.

That's no reason to rob me of a non-reproductive relationship with a woman, however.

Plenty of broads either don't want to reproduce or are unable to reproduce.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Let's rephrase that.

It's getting harder for people who think they can expect to choose the city where they live without earning enough money to do so.

Where you live is a choice. If you are living in a city that is extremely expensive then you better have a job that is paying you above average money to afford it.

If you don't then you simply can't afford it. Trying to cry about not having any money when you are paying 60% of your monthly income to a rent/mortgage payment and then trying to blame everyone else other than themselves is idiotic.

There is nobody that is going to come in and save you when you can't make basic sound financial decisions for yourself.

Financial literacy is at an all time low amongst Americans and their view that they are entitled to live wherever they want even if they can't afford it and then throw a b!tch fest about everyone and everything when they can't instead of moving to a place that they can afford it is both idiotic and mind numbingly dumb.

If you can't afford to live in San Francisco making 60K a year then move somewhere that you can afford to live. It's really not that hard.

IMO, most of the hard economic times Americans go thru come from poor financial decisions they make.

I would not disagree just caption this saying if one were to move to a major city taking a bad salary at first like most of us did in order to be in a professional nexus it would make sense as it’s an investment in your future - but at some point you have to take stock of your life agreed.

 

[SW15]

I do think we've seen a massive and unsustainable rise in female dating standards over the last 10 years ( note I say dating not sex ) , this has made casual dating become very difficult and standoffish as you have women expecting the earth the moon and the stars and men who are becoming increasingly cautious about being sucked into something that's built on sand.

I mean I don't "date" much but I took a chick out from a cold approach the other week

The date seemed on the surface to go very well , we had fun , kissed, she text me saying she was excited for the next one

But as the week went on something just felt off for me .....her messaging was all over the place and erratic I slammed the breaks on and didn't offer another date...... sure enough within a few days I got a " I'm not sure I'm feeling this"

Female standards for dating have gotten ridiculously high. It takes more effort now than it would have taken 20 years ago just to land a first date AND it takes more effort on first dates to land a second date.

In your story, I don't think the communication channel of text messaging has helped. My favorite era of communications was the flip and candy bar phone era in the early to mid 2000s. There was the benefit of making phone calls on the go without all the downsides of all communication being so impersonal in a text based format.

Smartphones and social media have increased female abundance. In the 1990s-early 2000s, the hottest women who were most socially active offline could only have a fraction of the abundance that even mediocre women experience today.

I have no real idea why this interaction fell apart I suspect there was another guy somewhere in the picture, but this short tale is a very common example of modern dating and how unnecessarily complex it's gotten

It is likely there was another man in the picture given the pandemic of female abundance.

10-20 years ago it was men entertaining multiple women , now its very much women entertaining multiple men and the problem is they don't do a very good job of it

Women enjoy abundance until they don't enjoy the abundance.

 

[Solomon]

Evolution is indeed working. In our case it is sexual based evolution.

The stronger are successful and the weaker are not. No real mystery, albeit some are unhappy about how it works.

Its actually getting more focused again, with more reproduction ATTEMPS from stronger and less from weaker.

No mystery. It is difficult to be one of the weaker and accept the truth.

How can we compete against evolution.... best way ever tried is religion.

This is why I said if you're struggling now it's going to get harder
If you doing well right now it's going to get easier

You going to see this divide happening with guys who are miserable because not only are they not having bad luck with women but also with finances, health etc
While guys who are doing well, are thriving in all aspects

In a couple of years getting women for top-notch guys will be so easy that the roles will reverse were top notch men are being sought after as the prize

I can't wait--lmfaoooo