Self Improvement is Over-rated

[I_Only_Live_Once]

This whole website goes into that direction and it's wrong. Unless you're filthy rich, improving yourself will usually only make a person slightly above average, and that's not good enough. Girls are not going to be super interested in you just because you're self improving. Don't believe me? Look at all the girls you've ever had a crush on and look at the guys they are going out with. I would wager that most of them are not striving to be the pinnacles of man (as this website would want you to be). They are guys who might not be as hard working as you, not as good of character as you, doesn't treat their family as good as you, is not well-balanced like you, but they're banging the girls you wish you had. So tell me who the successful one is?

You might say this website is not about picking up girls, but bettering yourself overall. That might be helpful advice for a total AFC tool. But if you now have a decent head on your shoulders, you don't need to focus on self-improvement anymore. Dating girls is a game. An example: A date is either a success or a failure (there's really not much in between if you think about it). Now if I say a joke and the girl thinks it's funny, or if I say something that ellicits strong emotion in her, then the date is a success. If for whatever reason the joke or comment didn't work on her, then it's a failure. *Yet in both circumstances I haven't changed. My value as a person, my confidence, my honor has all been identical. She is not judging my character, she is judging me based on how well I play the game.

This website doesn't focus on game, it focuses on mindset. Having a mindset to be confident and take-charge will only be useful to an extent, the rest of it is outer-game. It's about social skills. It's about being charming. The greatest irony of this site is that it's called sosuave, yet almost none of the information teaches you how to be so suave. Inner-game and confidence is what you need on a fundamental training-wheels level, but after that you should learn how to mack.

 

[Bonhomme]

Inner-game and confidence is what you need on a fundamental training-wheels level

Is that not self-improvement?

 

[BuckwildNYC]

Yeah but if your not happy with yourself for whatever reason......your broke, 50 lbs. overweight, live with your parents, have a lousy job etc., There is no way in this world you are going to be able to confidently sweep a girl off her feet. Now notice how I said "if you are not happy with yourself."

Like you said there are plenty of losers out there with hot girls. Cause they don't care that they are broke or have a gut. They are still confident and smooth. So bottom line is if you are happy with the life you are living then you really don't need much self-improvement. But if your the guy always feeling sorry for himself then you need to forget about chicks for a while and start working on you.

That's where I'm at so for the first few months of 2006 it's going to be all about self improvement.

 

[Fender]

It really depends on what you want I guess. I always felt that sosuave.com was a site for getting girlfriends and building good relationships as opposed to one night stands.

But I agree. When compared to sites like fast seduction 101, the amount of outer game material here is embarassing.

But, instead of changing this site, I suggest we just visit other sites as well. No point in limiting ourselves. When you want some general mindset ideas and self improvement stuff, come here!

Want some specific techniques or outer game advice? Go to fast seduction.

If you haven't realised though, only the good players and guys at the top of their game will write about self-improvement. Almost none of them use routines or techniques anymore. Read MotU's "My (current) thoughts on seduction" or even Neil Strauss' "The Game" for more on this. Why? Because their game isn't really about CONVINCING the girl how great they are, it's indirectly SHOWING how great they are. And that strategy only works if...you are a GREAT person.

Granted, if you are a total AFC and a n00b in social interactions, it would be 1000x easier to get laid with routines and techniques. But in terms of overall happiness and satisfaction, there nothing better than knowing that she is f*cking you becuase she like YOU. Not because she likes www.fastseduction.com's routines.

-fender-

 

[Socialreject]

I like your attitude. How you claim the whole website is wrong... never giving thought to the fact that you might just be in the wrong place...

 

[backbreaker]

Hey, to each his own

 

[DJ_in_making]

Originally posted by I_Only_Live_Once
Girls are not going to be super interested in you just because you're self improving. Don't believe me? Look at all the girls you've ever had a crush on and look at the guys they are going out with. I would wager that most of them are not striving to be the pinnacles of man (as this website would want you to be). They are guys who might not be as hard working as you, not as good of character as you, doesn't treat their family as good as you, is not well-balanced like you, but they're banging the girls you wish you had. So tell me who the successful one is?

okay, you raised a good point, granted not all girls are gonna want a man who's self-improved and would prefer a loser for whatever reason. But okay, even if you don't get the girl, didn't you still better yourself in general for other aspects of life, and didn't you still get something out of it, as opposed to trying to get a girl using techniques and after getting shut down being left w/ nothing.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by I_Only_Live_Once
This whole website goes into that direction and it's wrong. Unless you're filthy rich, improving yourself will usually only make a person slightly above average, and that's not good enough. Girls are not going to be super interested in you just because you're self improving. Don't believe me? Look at all the girls you've ever had a crush on and look at the guys they are going out with. I would wager that most of them are not striving to be the pinnacles of man (as this website would want you to be). They are guys who might not be as hard working as you, not as good of character as you, doesn't treat their family as good as you, is not well-balanced like you, but they're banging the girls you wish you had. So tell me who the successful one is?

Ummm, you???

Sorry, my bad... I couldn't help it....

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by I_Only_Live_Once
This whole website goes into that direction and it's wrong. Unless you're filthy rich, improving yourself will usually only make a person slightly above average, and that's not good enough. Girls are not going to be super interested in you just because you're self improving. Don't believe me? Look at all the girls you've ever had a crush on and look at the guys they are going out with. I would wager that most of them are not striving to be the pinnacles of man (as this website would want you to be). They are guys who might not be as hard working as you, not as good of character as you, doesn't treat their family as good as you, is not well-balanced like you, but they're banging the girls you wish you had. So tell me who the successful one is?

Ummm, not you???

Sorry, my bad... I couldn't help it....

 

[Bonhomme]

The more and more I experience, the more and more I find it's about "inner game," and that tricks and gambits are overrated.

 

[So pimp its scary]

That's bullshyt post... almost all successful business people read self-help books, sales people, anyone that is looking to improve their life in whatever area.

Seriously, the mindset really IS the game... Cause with the wrong mindset you can use everytrick in the book and get jack squat.

You are so right though... granted it takes time to get the right mindset, but there is so little focus on outer game that it's sad,

 

[GropeDope]

Originally posted by I_Only_Live_Once
Unless you're filthy rich, improving yourself will usually only make a person slightly above average, and that's not good enough.

If you ain't got no money take your BROKE ass HOME

 

[thederekeffect1]

Oh, man. Where do I start with this post?

Yes, it's very true that we believe that the game starts on the inside.

1) Self-improvement is PART of the game. Think about it. If you're fat - lose weight. If you're skinny - get some muscle. If you're already in great shape - you still have to work hard to keep it that way.

It's not just working out. The whole game is like that.
Which brings me to...

2) You should CONSTANTLY be improving yourself!!! Even if you already have a decent head on your shoulders. A million things can go wrong on a date. A date is only a goal for something bigger. One night stand? Long term relationship? Another date? - These are things that can come from one date. If you have no inner-game ... You're gonna f*ck up. You're inner game may be good on the approach... But is it good on the date? What if you do lose? Do you get jealous? Do you get angry? Or do you just shrug it off? - Inner game. If you're in a long term relationship and she breaks up with you for another man, how are you going to take it? There are some people on this board who would say "I'd ***** smack her". Theres others who would say "shrug it off". And others would just go into a major depression. But if we have our inner game together... and we're constantly improving that inner game... We'll be back on the field in no time.

3) No matter how you look at it - It's your inner game versus her inner game.

4) Self improvement doesnt just include inner game. it includes outer game as well.

5) You... Don't get it, yet. We're not playing monopoly. We're playing the grown ups game

 

[AmIAFC]

Someone's been watching too much Fight Club. If we, as humans, never embraced self-improvement, ants and roaches would be running things.

 

[Desdinova]

Girls are not going to be super interested in you just because you're self improving.

You are correct. They don't care if you're doing self-improvement or not. However, you seem to only be seeing the act of self-improvement as a direct way to attract women. It doesn't work that way.

It's the RESULT of the self-improvement that will attract women. Being your best self is going to pay off in the long run. You will not only be more successful with women, but in other aspects of your life as well.

 

[I_Only_Live_Once]

I appreciate the replies, but I'm right. Most of the guys who get hot girls are slackers who don't care much about anything. And yes I think I should go to Fast Seduction instead.

There needs to be field reports that actually show how gaming is done, not just vague ideological advice on how to be a prize.

 

[Bloke]

Originally posted by I_Only_Live_Once
This whole website goes into that direction and it's wrong. Unless you're filthy rich, improving yourself will usually only make a person slightly above average, and that's not good enough. Girls are not going to be super interested in you just because you're self improving. Don't believe me? Look at all the girls you've ever had a crush on and look at the guys they are going out with. I would wager that most of them are not striving to be the pinnacles of man (as this website would want you to be). They are guys who might not be as hard working as you, not as good of character as you, doesn't treat their family as good as you, is not well-balanced like you, but they're banging the girls you wish you had. So tell me who the successful one is?

You might say this website is not about picking up girls, but bettering yourself overall. That might be helpful advice for a total AFC tool. But if you now have a decent head on your shoulders, you don't need to focus on self-improvement anymore. Dating girls is a game. An example: A date is either a success or a failure (there's really not much in between if you think about it). Now if I say a joke and the girl thinks it's funny, or if I say something that ellicits strong emotion in her, then the date is a success. If for whatever reason the joke or comment didn't work on her, then it's a failure. *Yet in both circumstances I haven't changed. My value as a person, my confidence, my honor has all been identical. She is not judging my character, she is judging me based on how well I play the game.

This website doesn't focus on game, it focuses on mindset. Having a mindset to be confident and take-charge will only be useful to an extent, the rest of it is outer-game. It's about social skills. It's about being charming. The greatest irony of this site is that it's called sosuave, yet almost none of the information teaches you how to be so suave. Inner-game and confidence is what you need on a fundamental training-wheels level, but after that you should learn how to mack.

You're not seeing the whole picture. The reason for you're self-improvement is so YOU are more happy with you're life. Women are the bonus along the way.

 

[\O/]

Originally posted by I_Only_Live_Once
I appreciate the replies, but I'm right. Most of the guys who get hot girls are slackers who don't care much about anything. And yes I think I should go to Fast Seduction instead.

There needs to be field reports that actually show how gaming is done, not just vague ideological advice on how to be a prize.

I believe that self-improvement is the most important thing and that it's the only thing that will ensure longterm success, with women and all other aspects of life.

However I agree that we should focus more on concrete advise. Even if you are able to approach, use "correct" bodylanguage, master the power of solid EC (Mavec) and generally get all your **** together it won't seperate you from every guy out there. Alot of people know who they are, what they want and just automatically have what we are here on this site trying to learn.

To be outstanding with women you need more. There are many other sites such as fastseduction, bristollair, RSD etc, I don't think it would hurt if we focused a bit more on those things here aswell.
Sosuave is by far the best site, but I also want to have a more solid database of "material". I like to have a wide selection of field-tested "switches" which we KNOW will work on women that i can pull out in conversations whenever necessary.

Techniques, routines, openers, games, conversational-topics, vibing...all of these will add spice to your game and i believe that it will take you the extra mile. It won't get you far though unless you have your basic **** together first. Then you are just firing away "pickup-lines" basically...

 

[JonJack]

Originally posted by I_Only_Live_Once
I appreciate the replies, but I'm right. Most of the guys who get hot girls are slackers who don't care much about anything. And yes I think I should go to Fast Seduction instead.

There needs to be field reports that actually show how gaming is done, not just vague ideological advice on how to be a prize.

Pffft..
I hate it when people say they're right.

Here's what I understand. All this desire for more information on field reports, gaming tactics, maneuvers and such stems from the strong desire to 'get with' a girl. And not just any girl, but specific girls. You want to win in this so-called game and you're looking for means and ways to do that.

Self improvement doesn't seem so appealing to you because it doesn't guarantee you success. Gaming methods seems so much more appealing because it can provide that comfort that you will find success with girls.

It's your mindset that's the issue here. Go ahead and put girls on a pedestal if you think it'll bring you success. Go ahead and think about girls all the time if you think it'll bring you success. Don't deny that girls are all you think about and desire because if it wasn't so, you would always put yourself first.

 

[I_Only_Live_Once]

Is putting myself first and going after women mutually exclusive? Can't I do both? If you guys didn't care about women, why would you be on a website dedicated to seduction? The main page on sosuave.com has a motto: "Secrets of Meeting, Dating and Attracting Women!"

And even Pook said, "I won't lie; self-improvement will get you no girls."
He said it would make it easier, but self improvement in itself doesn't do any good.