Scared of being rejected during a physical move

[Maxtro]

Earlier today I had another date with the girl I've mentioned here a couple of times. It basically confirmed that I'm too scared to make any physical moves. I had a couple of chances to kiss her but I chickened out again. It's most likely too late for this girl but this issue will continue to haunt me unless I get over this fear.

What really bugs me was that not only was I too scared to kiss her, I didn't even have the balls to grab her fucking hand. That's really weird since I've taken several dance classes and I'm very comfortable holding a girl close to me. But the thought of trying to holding her hand and just walking, scares the shit out of me, what the hell?

I haven't had any intimate contact like that in a very long time with a girl and she basically led every step. I know that the vast majority of women will not do that and it's up to me to set the pace. This current girl is no different.

Any tips on what I can do to become more comfortable? Or what's even going on?

BTW if anybody thinks it's a good idea to insult me and not at least offering constructive criticism, don't waste me time by posting.

 

[handle]

What's the worst that could happen?

Let's say the worst happens. She gives you that "eww, what the **** are you doing?" look and tells all her friends you're creepy and have long nose hair or whatever. And everyone around you at the time laughs at you or something. So, you get embarrassed for like a week or two. Barring any extraordinary circumstances, that is as bad as it gets... Which isn't too bad.

Obviously you don't want to run through a "worst possible outcome" scenario in your head when you're out with some girl. Just be aware that the worst-case is pretty tame in the scheme of things. And if the worst happens you can just go home, lick your wounds, and listen to a good record. No big deal.

 

[Korrupt]

Honestly, you're attitude and inner game seems pretty sh!tty. Who cares what happens? YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!

 

[Alle_Gory]

I'm not too good with anxiety, I fear lots of things I shouldn't but I do things anyways. It's all in your head.

Work past it. You can't remove it. The fear will just die down slowly over time.

 

[ARrocket]

You know how you are supposed to progressively escalate kino during your interactions with women?

Think of your life as one big interaction, Maxtro. You need to escalate kino in your life.

Get comfortable touching women. I know you take a dance class, but that's not what I mean. Get comfortable touching them in a social setting.

You should be hugging girls you know. Hug them good. Touch their arm when you talk. Poke them playfully, bump them around. Hell, start with tapping them on the shoulder and then standing on the other side just to mess with them. Simple things like that will get the ball rolling.

Next time you are with a girl, do these things. See how she reacts. Chances are she will react well (IF the rest of your game is good...I know it isn't right now, but it will get better, and this will help it to get better). This will give you more confidence to further escalate.

You start by touching playfully, and THEN you start touching sexually.

Sooner or later, Maxtro, you'll have to just grab your balls, realize you're a man, and JUST DO IT. We can give you all the pep talks in the world, but it has to come from within you.

 

[Maxtro]

What's the worst that could happen?

Let's say the worst happens. She gives you that "eww, what the **** are you doing?" look

Not only does she gives me the look then she says, "What the hell are you doing? Who gave you permission to touch me. Get the hell away you loser."

Of course that is an absolute worse case scenario and most likely would not happen. Probably the most that would happen is that she might say one hurtful comment, I'll feel like crap and walk away. Other than that, nothing else would happen. Hmm it sounded much worse in my head. Not really a big deal.

Honestly, you're attitude and inner game seems pretty sh!tty. Who cares what happens? YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!

No arguing with you there. The very fact that I was with a girl today does make me feel better, but I'm still my own worst enemy. I have such high standards for myself, and when I don't meet them, it really brings me down.

You're right that I have nothing to lose. I haven't known her for that long and I don't consider her a friend. Even if things do go wrong with her, I'm going to meet a bunch of new women when school starts again in a couple of weeks.

Hmm, now that I think about it, I may be placing way too much importance into her.

I'm not too good with anxiety, I fear lots of things I shouldn't but I do things anyways. It's all in your head.

Work past it. You can't remove it. The fear will just die down slowly over time.

Is there anything I can do to make powering through it easier? If I had a drink or three in me, I should be less worried about screwing up. Once I break the first barrier I can keep doing what ever scared me.

You know how you are supposed to progressively escalate kino during your interactions with women?

Think of your life as one big interaction, Maxtro. You need to escalate kino in your life.

Get comfortable touching women. I know you take a dance class, but that's not what I mean. Get comfortable touching them in a social setting.

You should be hugging girls you know. Hug them good. Touch their arm when you talk. Poke them playfully, bump them around. Hell, start with tapping them on the shoulder and then standing on the other side just to mess with them. Simple things like that will get the ball rolling.

You start by touching playfully, and THEN you start touching sexually.

Surprisingly enough I'm already past that stage. I did all of that stuff with her today.

What gets me are the "sexual" touches.

There were three key things I wanted to do today but couldn't.

Hold her hand when walking down the pier.
Put my arm around her shoulder when sitting on the grass.
Kiss her.

To me, those acts are intimate and display a level of interest that I can't play off. She will instantly know what I'm trying to do. This chick already knows I like her so I don't know what I'm afraid of.

Sooner or later, Maxtro, you'll have to just grab your balls, realize you're a man, and JUST DO IT. We can give you all the pep talks in the world, but it has to come from within you.

Of course you're right. But I need to start small. Though I still need to face what can happen.

 

[garruk]

DRINK.

all these people can tell you to just do it, but seriously a little alcohol will do it for you.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

So she actually agreed to go to your place? Or did you go the "lunch date" route, where the context was already "LJBF"?

If you went to lunch, where she wanted to go? Did you actually get her to your house, get her to bring food, etc., as you were adviced here? Or did you just go a long with meeting somewhere for lunch, a totally non-sexy environment, and actually expect to turn your mojo on and just kiss her with no sexual tension present?

She is even less interested in you, THAT WAY, now. Maybe you're not ready to date and need to take time to work on your self-esteem and confidence.

 

[pua1989]

i havent posted here in months, but im kinda drunk and wanted to see what the old maxtro had to say.



THE RED FLAG I SEE IN YOUR POST IS THIS:


"...who gave you permission to touch me?..."


are you kidding man? i understand that its hard for you to make these "sexual touches," but this is just almost porn-masochistic like. do you watch porn where the woman dominates? i hope you dont but after reading that one line i wouldnt be surprised if you did. its not the girl that gives permission, its YOU who makes the move. in fact its nobody that gives permission, its you that does what you want to do. if its not what she wants (big deal? dont talk to her anymore if she makes a big fuss), shít at least you tried. what if she DID want it? then youd be porkin her pússy.

 

[Captain]

You've just got to grab your balls and JUST DO IT. Some people might say to work up to it in small steps, but grabbing a girls' hand IS a small step. You can do it

 

[J. Darko]

No, no no!!!

It's not a matter of just doing it, it's not a matter of having nothing to lose. The problem is, Maxtro, that you don't understand the cultural rules of touching yet, because you mention you want to touch her without paying attention to the circumstances, while the circumstances determine wether it's appropriate to touch a girl or not. So here are some cultural rules.

Basics

- A touch must be short. Not as short as if the body you touch is on fire, but not longer than a second.

- When you touch, your mind nor your body should pay attention to the act of touching. Meaning, you may only touch a girl while you are talking to her and looking at another spot than the spot you are touching, for example, her eyes or the distance.

- While you are touching her, you must have an excuse for touching her. You can't touch her shoulder while she is like blablablabla, but you can touch her shoulder when you say something like: you have to see this, come with me, while toucing her shoulder and giving her a slight push in the direction you want to take her and while looking in the direction you want to take her. Another example: you can push her away with your hand on her shoulder while making fun of her. Remember, you can't touch her out of the blue because that will be very awkward. Have an excuse.

- If a girl touches you, it's an invitation to touch her the same way, but not right away.





Those are the basics. Now for the advanced touching. Caution: the basic rules still apply for advanced touching. Always keep the basics in mind.



Advanced

- You may touch her for longer than a second if you are on a date and she makes it very, very, very obvious to you that she wants you. For example, if she undresses in front of you, meaning that if she weared a thick sweater at the beginning of the date and now she's wearing only her undershirt.

- You should never, ever pull her body towards you, your body moves to her body. Meaning, you don't grab her hand. You can however, lay your hand on her hand. This is only appropriate on dates and beyond dates. Grabbing her is only appropriate if you are in a serious relationship and you are the kind of guy that has earned the right to do so. Think about Michael Jackson: he can grab his balls in public, you can't.

- If a girl wants to kiss you. She will let you know. She will. Yes, she will give you that look, those puppy eyes that say: please, shut up, can't you see that I want you? You will know. Yes you will know when it's time. If you don't know, it isn't time.




If you keep these rules in mind, you will exhibit appropriate behaviour and you will not suffer the worst case scenario.

 

[perseverance]

DRINK.

all these people can tell you to just do it, but seriously a little alcohol will do it for you.

That's the worst advice I've read.

Drinking will not solve matters for this man, he needs to throw caution to the wind, embrace his sexual nature and that is apart of every human being and he needs to stop analyzing everything, overcomplicating matters and just needs to humanize himself and the situation he's in.

When he realizes that a woman is just a woman, a human being too and not some goddess on a higher pedestal that is in need of worshipping, nature will take its rightful course and he will know exactly what he should do be doing.

 

[Igetit!]

Not only does she gives me the look then she says, "What the hell are you doing? Who gave you permission to touch me. Get the hell away you loser."

That's kinda taking it to the extreme Max. You're letting your mind run wild,conjuring up all these "what if" scenarios.


That kind of thing should NEVER HAPPEN. If a girl were to ever say something like that to you,then that would mean that YOU didn't lay a proper foundation for the kissing,hugging,or touching to take place.


You say you're afraid of getting rejected while trying to make a PHYSICAL move on a girl. Well a PHYSICAL move such as kissing,hugging,or touching is just an OUTWARD expression of the sexual attraction a man and a woman feel for each other.


So if ever do get a "who told you you could touch me" or an "get the hell away from me you loser" from a girl while trying to make a physical move,then that means you screwed up a LONG TIME AGO,waaaay before your attempts at trying to touch her.

You're right that I have nothing to lose. I haven't known her for that long and I don't consider her a friend.

Well it's good that you don't consider her as a friend,but how does she consider you? The answer to this question will reveal the type of foundation you've laid with her up to this point,and if you don't know how she considers you,then again,you've failed to set things up to make her see you in a romantic way.

What gets me are the "sexual" touches.

There were three key things I wanted to do today but couldn't.

Hold her hand when walking down the pier.
Put my arm around her shoulder when sitting on the grass.
Kiss her.

To me, those acts are intimate and display a level of interest that I can't play off.

"Display a level of interest you can't play off"?

Uh....why would you want to "play it off? What for?

Do you think that if you were to do those things such as holding her hand,putting your arm around her and/or kissing her that she would know that you like her,and reject you?


That's not how it works. And let's say you did decided to do one or all of these things,and you got rejected. Uhhh...yeah? So?


What difference does it make? You're getting rejected now,right?


The thing you're worried about happening if you try to kiss or touch her is ALREADY HAPPENING NOW.


You say you're scared to make a physical move because you might get rejected,but you're ALREADY GETTING REJECTED as it is.

So what difference does getting rejected while trying to make a move make?



I'd rather go down swinging than to just stand there and let a perfectly thrown pitch just pass by.

She will instantly know what I'm trying to do.

SHE'S SUPPOSED TO KNOW what you're trying to do.

What are you trying to do,trick these girls? You say that this girl will "instantly" know what you're trying to do. So if you don't want her to "instantly" know,then when would you like her to find out?




If you're at the point of trying to kiss her and she still doesn't knowabout your interest,then you might as well forget it. That's poor foundation building.

 

[boomerick]

MAX---

You characterize this sh!t as if you are pulling something over on this chick that she doesn't want as if you're worried about being caught....

WTF ????????

If she's hangin' with you she's wanting roughly the same thing you are....

Or should at least be headed in the same direction....

She's problay freaked out 'cause you seemed to be freaked out....

OR......

You think you are dating this chick but she thinks she's hangin' out with a friend...

What the hell????

You've got over two thousand posts here and you are afraid to hold hands ?????......

Why is this chick so "special"? What's the very worst thing that could happen if things went as wrong as they could go?????....

Come the f*ck on man.......

Don't just hold her hand .....BE A MAN...BE SEXUAL....LEAD....Take her to bed and do the things that she really wants you to do to her.....

How can you expect her to want you as a man if you won't act like a man???...

Get out of your own head troop....you cant engage the enemy if you're fighting yourself.....

JEEEEEEEEZ.....holding hands???????????

YGTBFSM!!!!!!

Over and Out.

 

[iliketennis]

remind yourself that you will lose your chance

 

[Duracell_Bunny]

I had this problem, when I got over the hurdle realized its all very simple.

• She has made time for you 1 on 1. Is that not a clear indicator? Make any move, no matter how badly its done or how awkered the moment is she will still accept if she is interested.
• If she rejects you've saved yourself a lot of energy and wasted time. Although I havn't actually had this happen before on a date.

• If you do NOTHING - Trust me, its much better to get rejected and to come off as a sexual being than having the pain of lost chances and regret.

 

[Kailex]

Maxtro, let me put it this way for you:

I'd much rather read a thread from you detailing how you made a move and got rejected, than read a thread from you detailing how you are afraid of making a move.


Just by going out with you, should be a definite indicator that her lips want to do the twisted tango with yours. Make it happen next time. You either kiss her and it works or you kiss her and get rejected. No other options from now on. I know those butterflies in your stomach when you are thinking about it are hard to overcome, but you're never going to start getting anywhere if you don't start trying. You're overthinking WAY too much.

I'd much rather be the guy who took a swing at it and struck out then the guy who watched the 3 strikes come right over the plate and just stood there.

 

[Jeffst1980]

Hey Maxtro-

Don't put so much significance into the kiss; allow the kissing to happen naturally. Your job is to get her accustomed to your touch.

If she accepted a date with you, that means she WANTS you to touch her! You don't need verbal permission; girls communicate interest in a different manner.

Example: You say, "let's go outside and check out ____"
She says, "ok."

^^That actually means she into you, and is doing her part to be compliant with your agenda. In other words, if she likes you, she'll let you lead her.

The same thing goes with kino. If you playfully grab her arm and she lets you, that means she wants more. Don't expect her to initiate kino EVER unless she's a touchy feely kind of girl. It is up to you to start getting physical right away. If you're holding her hand or have an arm around her shoulder, kissing her will be an afterthought.

This lessens any chance of rejection, because she won't look at you like a creep for giving her a side hug, or touching her knee. She'll simply resist and move away from you. Even this is unlikely, though, because SHE ACCEPTED A DATE WITH YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE!

The physical barrier is tough to overcome for a lot of guys--just remember that you're just doing your job. You may look like a creep for escalating from time to time, but you will look asexual if you don't. Better the former than the latter.

 

[Maxtro]

DRINK.

all these people can tell you to just do it, but seriously a little alcohol will do it for you.

I hope you're right and it's that easy. About a year ago I had a girl with me at my roommates birthday party. The girl and I had a couple of drinks in us but I was still too scared to make a move. I probably could have slept with her if I tried.

So she actually agreed to go to your place? Or did you go the "lunch date" route, where the context was already "LJBF"?

If you went to lunch, where she wanted to go? Did you actually get her to your house, get her to bring food, etc., as you were adviced here? Or did you just go a long with meeting somewhere for lunch, a totally non-sexy environment, and actually expect to turn your mojo on and just kiss her with no sexual tension present?

We met at the restaurant which was her idea. After that we walked up and down the pier, got some desert then sat on the grass overlooking the beach. After some time she wanted to go to the computer lab and study. I suggested going to my place and she declined. Then suggested getting drinks and she joked that I'd try to take advantage of her.

How does sexual tension work? What is/are a sexy environment? I wonder if I'm making things harder then they should be by trying to kiss her without those things.

I really want to take her dancing or at least to a bar where alcohol will be present.

Maybe you're not ready to date and need to take time to work on your self-esteem and confidence.

The only way I can work on my self-esteem and confidence is by making progress with women. I need more experience.

are you kidding man? i understand that its hard for you to make these "sexual touches," but this is just almost porn-masochistic like. do you watch porn where the woman dominates? i hope you dont but after reading that one line i wouldnt be surprised if you did. its not the girl that gives permission, its YOU who makes the move. in fact its nobody that gives permission, its you that does what you want to do. if its not what she wants (big deal? dont talk to her anymore if she makes a big fuss), shít at least you tried. what if she DID want it? then youd be porkin her pússy.

No I don't watch any thing with female dominance. Though I wonder if being raised by a single mother pretty much covered it. I've also never really been an aggressive guy.

Those are the basics. Now for the advanced touching. Caution: the basic rules still apply for advanced touching. Always keep the basics in mind.

I have all the basics down and no issue with them. I'm totally fine with light arm, shoulder and back touches. After she got up from laying face down in the grass she had all these weird imprints from the grass on her legs, she was wearing shorts. I saw that as an excuse to touch her leg and feel the imprints. When she joked about leaving me behind I gave her a push.

So all that non-intimate/friendly stuff is fine with me.

Advanced

- You should never, ever pull her body towards you, your body moves to her body. Meaning, you don't grab her hand. You can however, lay your hand on her hand. This is only appropriate on dates and beyond dates. Grabbing her is only appropriate if you are in a serious relationship and you are the kind of guy that has earned the right to do so. Think about Michael Jackson: he can grab his balls in public, you can't.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that at all. So it was a good thing I didn't try to grab her?

She was totally comfortable with my body against hers when we were playing with her phone. It was the most physical contact I'd had with a girl in a long time.

- If a girl wants to kiss you. She will let you know. She will. Yes, she will give you that look, those puppy eyes that say: please, shut up, can't you see that I want you? You will know. Yes you will know when it's time. If you don't know, it isn't time.

That just may be it. I definitely did not get that feeling from her. So after hanging out with her three times I wonder if she ever will?

This PUA mentality is messing with my thoughts. I keep thinking that I should have slept with her by now because that's what somebody with game would have done. I'm here getting frustrated because I haven't even gotten to first base yet.

I would be totally fine it if takes me a month or so to have sex with her, as long as I know that I'm making progress towards that.

That's the worst advice I've read.

Drinking will not solve matters for this man, he needs to throw caution to the wind, embrace his sexual nature and that is apart of every human being and he needs to stop analyzing everything, overcomplicating matters and just needs to humanize himself and the situation he's in.

I really don't know if drinking will help or not.

As for embracing my sexual nature, that's an interesting idea. At this point I don't know how sexual of person I am. I want to have sex with her and I'd love to kiss her, but I don't feel any drive pushing me. It's like I'm waiting for something to take control and just stop thinking.

Well it's good that you don't consider her as a friend,but how does she consider you? The answer to this question will reveal the type of foundation you've laid with her up to this point,and if you don't know how she considers you,then again,you've failed to set things up to make her see you in a romantic way.

I have no idea at all what she considers me. I know that she knows I'm interested in her. And despite that she wanted to spend time with me, which was a shock in itself because I expected that she wanted nothing to do with me after our last date where she basically rejected me. So I'm really confused on what is happening with her.

SHE'S SUPPOSED TO KNOW what you're trying to do.

What are you trying to do,trick these girls? You say that this girl will "instantly" know what you're trying to do. So if you don't want her to "instantly" know,then when would you like her to find out?

MAX---

You characterize this sh!t as if you are pulling something over on this chick that she doesn't want as if you're worried about being caught....

Trying to trick her and afraid of getting caught. That pretty much sums it up. It'd also be great if she took charge but it's stupid to even think that.

I've been rejected so many times by women that I expect it now. So I try to proceed in a very gradual way that minimizes rejection. And it's probably causing her to lose interest in me.

You've got over two thousand posts here and you are afraid to hold hands ?????......

My post count is utterly meaningless. The only thing that is somewhat relevant is my reputation and I've turned that off.

The only thing that matters to me is the progress I've made with each girl over the years. When I first joined this forum at 23, I had oneitis for a girl so bad that I had to drop the class she was in because I was too afraid to ask her out. I was getting extremely angry with myself because I was too chicken to do anything. I think I may have had one conversation with the chick. That is where I came from. Few men here started at that level.

Why is this chick so "special"? What's the very worst thing that could happen if things went as wrong as they could go?????....

She isn't. Right now she is just the vessel that holds my "girl" desires, hopes and dreams. I carry around these feelings and dump them into whatever girl I'm closest to at the time. I have a strong belief that I'm going to be "saved" once I can actually have sex with a girl I like. I've felt that way since I was 16.

What's funny is whenever I think of this girl, I usually get her name wrong and think of the name of the girl before her. I had a huge crush on that girl and liked her much more than this one.

 

[Maxtro]

I had this problem, when I got over the hurdle realized its all very simple.

• She has made time for you 1 on 1. Is that not a clear indicator? Make any move, no matter how badly its done or how awkered the moment is she will still accept if she is interested.

In my experience a girl making time for me is not enough to be an indicator of interest. I've had girls do the same thing for me with nothing but friendship in mind. I'm hoping that her knowing I'm interested is a factor.

There is no way I'd spend any time with a chick who liked me that I had no interest in.

[*]If she rejects you've saved yourself a lot of energy and wasted time. Although I havn't actually had this happen before on a date.
[/LIST]

• If you do NOTHING - Trust me, its much better to get rejected and to come off as a sexual being than having the pain of lost chances and regret.

I do know that trying nothing means that nothing will happen.

Hey Maxtro-

Don't put so much significance into the kiss; allow the kissing to happen naturally.

How does it happen naturally? Does the girl always let you know that she wants to be kissed?

Your job is to get her accustomed to your touch.

If she accepted a date with you, that means she WANTS you to touch her! You don't need verbal permission; girls communicate interest in a different manner.

Example: You say, "let's go outside and check out ____"
She says, "ok."

^^That actually means she into you, and is doing her part to be compliant with your agenda. In other words, if she likes you, she'll let you lead her.

She's accustomed to my touch, of course I haven't tried anything too intimate yet. She also lets me lead but not on everything. I'm disappointed she didn't come back to my place. And I haven't seen her at night yet.

I wonder if she's worried that seeing me at night or having alcohol present will lead to us hooking up.

I want to see her again and try to make some progress. Right now my ideas are to take her to a movie (Scot Pilgrim or The Expendables) or have drinks with her, or go to a club, she also likes to do karaoke so that could be fun as well.