Scared of being rejected during a physical move

[Alle_Gory]

In my experience a girl making time for me is not enough to be an indicator of interest. I've had girls do the same thing for me with nothing but friendship in mind. I'm hoping that her knowing I'm interested is a factor.

It depends how you treat them. Do you talk to her like she's a girl? Do you compliment her when she does something you like? Do you tease her?

If you do that and she makes time for you then she's interested.

How does it happen naturally? Does the girl always let you know that she wants to be kissed?

From my experience, rarely. You have to read other signals like... so you had a great evening, you flirted, she was comfortable with your touch... that means green light. You keep going until you get a rejection. Then you play it off, and let her cool down for a bit and try again later. That's how it "just happens".

Rejection can sometimes be fun. I know I've said and done some stupid sh*t when I'm out with a girl but when I'm in that mood I just laugh about it.

I take it that your dates are stressful so you're going into this fight or flight mode analyzing every single move. You've got to work through that.

I'm disappointed she didn't come back to my place. And I haven't seen her at night yet.

It's ok then. Just remember, don't treat her like a friend. Like your talking to one of your buddies. If you flirt and touch and all that, it's almost impossible to get friendzoned. She's a girl. Let her know that you like that and get her comfortable and let her be a girl. When you do that, she'll see you as a guy as well instead of another one of her girlfriends. It's a different level of communicating. There's a very obvious motive behind it.

Right now my ideas are to take her to a movie (Scot Pilgrim or The Expendables) or have drinks with her, or go to a club, she also likes to do karaoke so that could be fun as well.

No movies. Nothing passive. Even talking is more active than sitting in a chair watching a screen. How else are you going to get to know her and for her to know you?

 

[J. Darko]

Three times already and no kiss? Did you make it obvious that you are on a romantic date? Not the hang out kind of date? I mean, if you are sitting next to her with your body close to her body, and you look her in the eyes, what happends then? Doesn't she stare back at you? Are your heads not close together? Or does she quickly look away and distance herself from you? In that case you are rejected. But if she rejected you she wouldn't go out with you.

Something is missing here.


Alle Gory

Wtf? Just trying to kiss her and when she doesn't want to try again later? Wtf? That makes me think that you just push insecure girls beyond their limits and then never hear from them again because you made them do something they regret doing.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

In my experience a girl making time for me is not enough to be an indicator of interest. I've had girls do the same thing for me with nothing but friendship in mind. I'm hoping that her knowing I'm interested is a factor.

Correct, specially when the role you are playing is not the role of lover/sexual interest. They make time for their girlfriends, their gay friends, their orbiters, etc., without being romantically interested in them. Where do you fall as far as the role you play in her life right now?

She knows you are interested, and she might, very small might, still be interested, yet every day you get together and behave like an asexual being, she confirms her mind's suspicions. YOU can be interested all you want, but she's after what she wants.

There is no way I'd spend any time with a chick who liked me that I had no interest in.

Se above explanation. You don't need to play the role of love interest for her to want to spend time with you.

I do know that trying nothing means that nothing will happen.

Trying too hard is in being a "try-hard", followed by DOING NOTHING, will only put you into the non-sexual, non sexually-threatening frame, wich is non-sexy for women.

Your best bet is to stay away for a few weeks, and come back with a total different attitude and approach.

How does it happen naturally? Does the girl always let you know that she wants to be kissed?

As somebody else pointed in an earlier post, if you are in this situation, it is most likely due to something you did or failed to do early on. It happens naturally by starting to do things right, from the very start. You keep doing things they way you want to, and ignoring the advice you get here. Then want some kind of magic, ninja move you can resort to, yet make it feel natural.

She's accustomed to my touch, of course I haven't tried anything too intimate yet. She also lets me lead but not on everything. I'm disappointed she didn't come back to my place. And I haven't seen her at night yet.

What have you tried so far? "Anything too intimate yet" sounds like you've done NOTHING remotely intimate.

I wonder if she's worried that seeing me at night or having alcohol present will lead to us hooking up.

She is not interested in being in anything sexual with you at this point. You might get there, but for now she doesn't want to give you any hopes.

Hate to have to be so blunt with you, at the risk of being an A$s to you, but you only tough love will help you learn from this, and help you be ready FOR THE NEXT ONE!

I want to see her again and try to make some progress. Right now my ideas are to take her to a movie (Scot Pilgrim or The Expendables) or have drinks with her, or go to a club, she also likes to do karaoke so that could be fun as well.

Instead of making progrees, you are digressing. A MOVIE??? No comment.

Seems like every one of those ideas you intend to follow them with a "Let's go back to my place", which is already predictable as to what the outcome will be.

If she is not interested in going for drinks, then she is not interested in you sexually. Anything else you try to bait her with, as in dinners, lunch, movies, etc., only sets the frame that you need those as crutches because otherwise she doesn't find you appealing enough to just want to spend time with regardless of the activity.

Karaoke with drinks sounds like the best choice.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

? In that case you are rejected. But if she rejected you she wouldn't go out with you.

Something is missing here.

Yes she would go out with him, even if she's not interested in him. You don't understand women that much, do you? Women will go out and spend time with men for many other reasons than just because they have a romantic/sexual interest.

Each man in a woman's life serves a role, the question is, What role do you play in the life of the women you are going after?

Non-sexual companion, movie buddy, lunch buddy, creepy touchie-feelie buddy, usually is not the type of man she will let see her naked.

 

[Alle_Gory]

That makes me think that you just push insecure girls beyond their limits and then never hear from them again because you made them do something they regret doing.

I've only gotten that rejection a few times. Perseverance works. Keep in mind, I try again when I think the time is right.

There's a difference between being pushy and perseverance. If the girl doesn't look comfortable, I leave her alone.

 

[Nexus Polaris]

Work on your inner game / self-confidence, man. Your framing is all wrong. You still see her as being better than you. You have her on a pedistal. That's the only reason you even care how she responds.

Put yourself on the pedistal instead. You have normal human needs that need to be met just like everybody else. You need sex/companionship/whatever. And if she won't fulfill them, that makes her lame, not you.

 

[Igetit!]

Each man in a woman's life serves a role, the question is, What role do you play in the life of the women you are going after?

+1 rep. on this. That's exactly right.

Different guys will play different roles in a woman's life,and if THE GUY doesn't actively,ON PURPOSE CHOOSE THE ROLE he wants to play,then the WOMAN will assign you one.....whether you like that role or not.

And once she assigns it to you,HER EMOTIONS start to form around seeing you that way. That's why the friendzone is impossible to get out of.

Non-sexual companion, movie buddy, lunch buddy, creepy touchie-feelie buddy, usually is not the type of man she will let see her naked.

Bingo.

 

[Maxtro]

A little while ago I sent her a text

Me:Hey lets do some karaoke this weekend.
Her: I'm busy this weekend.
Me: That's cool, have fun.

And that was it.

Maybe I'll see her next week, maybe not. I know she's seeing at least one other guy and I think I'm her backup weekday guy; who probably won't get anything from her.

Different guys will play different roles in a woman's life,and if THE GUY doesn't actively,ON PURPOSE CHOOSE THE ROLE he wants to play,then the WOMAN will assign you one.....whether you like that role or not.

And once she assigns it to you,HER EMOTIONS start to form around seeing you that way. That's why the friendzone is impossible to get out of.

From the very beginning she's only let me see her during the day and on weekdays. In the times I have tried to have drinks with her she either ignored my texts or declined me in person.

It's almost as if she's trying to keep a muzzle on me. Here I am struggling to make moves on her since I don't have any experience and it seems she's trying to make things harder for me. If she doesn't want to give me a chance at all then I'd wish she just stop talking to me. Ugh I'm getting frustrated.

I really want to call her out on it, but I know it will do more harm than good.

I was going to reply to all the posts but I just lost all my motivation.

 

[J. Darko]

Yes she would go out with him, even if she's not interested in him. You don't understand women that much, do you? Women will go out and spend time with men for many other reasons than just because they have a romantic/sexual interest.

Each man in a woman's life serves a role, the question is, What role do you play in the life of the women you are going after?

Non-sexual companion, movie buddy, lunch buddy, creepy touchie-feelie buddy, usually is not the type of man she will let see her naked.

Is that so? Why are you so sure that each man serves a role in a woman's life? You don't knpw each man. You don't know each woman. You don't even consider the possibility that some girls don't want anything to do with you after they reject you. It seems to me that you are close minded and think you have ownership of the truth.

But you don't.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

Is that so? Why are you so sure that each man serves a role in a woman's life? You don't knpw each man. You don't know each woman. You don't even consider the possibility that some girls don't want anything to do with you after they reject you. It seems to me that you are close minded and think you have ownership of the truth.

But you don't.

Booo hoooo hooo! I hurt your little feelings!

Duh, off course not every man plays a role. I don't care about every man or every woman. I am not making an "All" "Always" "None" or "Never" type of statement. If you want to get technical, even the guys she doesn't want end up playing role. The role of "Unattractive guy who joined the long list of guys I was not interested in." The role of the guy who keeps reaffirming what type of guy she's not interested in. That is a very big list of chumps. A Very limited role. There. Happy. All I care right now is the particular situation of the OP, and helping him understand the dynamics here. I can't believe how you choose to focus on that, and not on the content and lessons learned from this thread.

I'm talking about the men a woman keeps around, you braintrust. As obviously, you didn't understand how she would not be interested, yet spend time with him. Not that hard to undersrtand. You're not that dense, are you? If you are, let me break it for down for you. The men she keeps around as orbiters, at least still manage to offer some value to her. Sounds like that happens to you often. Guys she wants nothing to do with, she sees no value in. If a guy she LJBF sticks around and wants to keep pushing and gets creepy with his attempts to get sexual, she will eventually want nothing to do with.

Obviously you don't understand the situation at hand, as you mentioned, you didn't understand why would she want to hang out with him if she's not interested. I told you, and instead of being grateful at the response and that of others who explained it, you decide to get your feelings hurt and attack.

Well, you don't understand women, at least not as much as I do. Not at this stage. Maybe in the near future. Its ok, I started worse off than you. I didn't come in here picking appart people who knew more than me. No need to get butthurt over it. Instead of wasting your time here picking appart everything I say and how it would not apply to your all or nothing view of things, why don't you learn from your reading here and be glad you don't have to start from scratch. The OP obviously is having a hard time, and I, along with many others here, broke it down for him.

Keep arguing with yourself. Not planning on spending the rest of my allotted daily posts on arguing over minute things; rather help people who want to learn. Drop the ego, as even you must admit, you learned something from my posts. You're welcome.

 

[FastMen]

Booo hoooo hooo! I hurt your little feelings!

Duh, off course not every man plays a role. I don't care about every man or every woman. I am not making an "All" "Always" "None" or "Never" type of statement. If you want to get technical, even the guys she doesn't want end up playing role. The role of "Unattractive guy who joined the long list of guys I was not interested in." The role of the guy who keeps reaffirming what type of guy she's not interested in. That is a very big list of chumps. A Very limited role. There. Happy. All I care right now is the particular situation of the OP, and helping him understand the dynamics here. I can't believe how you choose to focus on that, and not on the content and lessons learned from this thread.



Keep arguing with yourself. Not planning on spending the rest of my allotted daily posts on arguing over minute things; rather help people who want to learn. Drop the ego, as even you must admit, you learned something from my posts. You're welcome.

hi,
so which category do i fit, if she told me "i have aboyfriend" and "we are friends" but i still want to see her....but the more i see her the more i adoubt about the situtation i just cant seem to get out of this "trap? could i get achance sometime?

 

[Maxtro]

hi,
so which category do i fit, if she told me "i have aboyfriend" and "we are friends" but i still want to see her....but the more i see her the more i adoubt about the situtation i just cant seem to get out of this "trap? could i get achance sometime?

Sorry, but please don't try to hijack my thread.

Make a new thread if you have a question.

 

[J. Darko]

Booo hoooo hooo! I hurt your little feelings!

Duh, off course not every man plays a role. I don't care about every man or every woman. I am not making an "All" "Always" "None" or "Never" type of statement. If you want to get technical, even the guys she doesn't want end up playing role. The role of "Unattractive guy who joined the long list of guys I was not interested in." The role of the guy who keeps reaffirming what type of guy she's not interested in. That is a very big list of chumps. A Very limited role. There. Happy. All I care right now is the particular situation of the OP, and helping him understand the dynamics here. I can't believe how you choose to focus on that, and not on the content and lessons learned from this thread.

I'm talking about the men a woman keeps around, you braintrust. As obviously, you didn't understand how she would not be interested, yet spend time with him. Not that hard to undersrtand. You're not that dense, are you? If you are, let me break it for down for you. The men she keeps around as orbiters, at least still manage to offer some value to her. Sounds like that happens to you often. Guys she wants nothing to do with, she sees no value in. If a guy she LJBF sticks around and wants to keep pushing and gets creepy with his attempts to get sexual, she will eventually want nothing to do with.

Obviously you don't understand the situation at hand, as you mentioned, you didn't understand why would she want to hang out with him if she's not interested. I told you, and instead of being grateful at the response and that of others who explained it, you decide to get your feelings hurt and attack.

Well, you don't understand women, at least not as much as I do. Not at this stage. Maybe in the near future. Its ok, I started worse off than you. I didn't come in here picking appart people who knew more than me. No need to get butthurt over it. Instead of wasting your time here picking appart everything I say and how it would not apply to your all or nothing view of things, why don't you learn from your reading here and be glad you don't have to start from scratch. The OP obviously is having a hard time, and I, along with many others here, broke it down for him.

Keep arguing with yourself. Not planning on spending the rest of my allotted daily posts on arguing over minute things; rather help people who want to learn. Drop the ego, as even you must admit, you learned something from my posts. You're welcome.

too long; didn't read.

 

[Mike32ct]

The key is to take small baby steps. If you are watching a movie with her and not comfortable holding her hand yet, just rest your hand on top of hers. Odds are she won't mind at all. From there, you can gently clasp her hand and transition it to hand holding or even lightly massaging her hand.

It is the same thing with kissing. Look at her, smile, then maybe brush her hair aside first. Again she will probably like that if she's attracted to you. Then move in slowly for the kiss.

Or if you are walking side by side just touch her lower back for a few seconds. You can then transition to having your arm around her waist.

So focus on small advances rather than worry about the bigger ones. In each little step you are testing the waters. If she doesn't pull away, you can slowly advance.

That is what they want. They want some physical affection from a guy they are attracted to as long as it is done in a smooth manner.
I've never had a girl say "Don't touch me" or ack weird about it.

 

[Maxtro]

Thanks for the tips Mike32ct. There's a lot of stuff I didn't think of.

 

[1 Bad Dude]

You want something from her. What it is and if you're getting it determines what you do. Your primary interest is sexual, but she isn't letting you get anywhere sexually. She's not going out on dates or going back to either your place or hers. Your secondary goal was to network, socialize and find prospective hookups through her. Are you getting that? As far as I can tell you aren't. She isn't inviting you to parties or other social events. All it looks like she is doing is using you to occupy her time. For whatever reason, it doesn't matter.

You aren't getting what you want so you need to move on. Period. Even if she contacts you, so what. You can respond if you want, but only to occupy your time if your bored. You ain't getting anything from it. This situation isn't salvageable as it stands. You have to change your perception to her and that ain't gonna happen by maintaining the status quo.

 

[Maxtro]

Going a little bit off topic but I can use it.

No she hasn't introduced me to anybody yet nor has she invited me to any parties. I'm not really worried about that yet. For one, it doesn't seem like good time to ask her if she has any single friends. Our status seems kind of murky as in, I really don't have a clue what's going on. I don't even know if she knows what she wants from me. Once I get a good solid rejection and know that it's not going to happen, then I can go that way.

As for parties, they don't seem to be happening over the summer. I asked her a while ago and she doesn't know when the next one is. She's not going to lie to me about that. Once school starts up again in a couple of weeks the parties should also happen and then maybe I can use her network. Of course that's assuming we are still cool.

I need to play this game pretty delicately. My primary goal is to have sex with her, and I need to keep pushing towards that route. But I need to do it in a way that won't piss her off and have her delete me from her life. I need to maintain some friendship.

I'm going to contact her in a couple of days and try to get her to see me when it's dark. It's going to be more difficult since I need to do it on a weekday and she has class twice a week.

 

[Tesl]

I really want to call her out on it, but I know it will do more harm than good.

DO NOT DO THIS.

Mate, I'm getting more and more frustrated at reading these threads - you haven`t learnt anything at all.

Why shouldn't you "call her out"? Because so far, she hasn't done anything wrong - This entire thing is YOUR fault.

Let's look at this from her perspective. She meets a guy somewhere and he asks if she wants to do lunch or something, she says sure. They hang out 2-3 times, he makes absolutely no moves whatsoever sexually and demonstrates no sexual interest whatsoever (this is clear from your posts). So what does she think of you? She might wonder if you are sexually interested, but since you aren't doing anything about it, she figures you are just her friend she can see when she has nothing else to do. Nothing wrong with that, I've lots of friends I only tend to call when I've nothing else to do!

So she sees this guy a few times, he seems nice, doesn't seem to want anything from her, and shes comfortable with that. Then one day, completely out of the blue, he flips out and starts asking "why are you wasting my time?!" etc. From her perspective she has just always considered you a friend, now you suddenly want more? And thats her fault? "What a jerk" she says, and ignores you forever. You go on to hate women more and more.

I got irritated reading that comment of yours. Speak to any beautiful girl and ask them if the above scenario has happened to them, I can absolutely guarantee it will have done at least once.

I know people keep saying to you "read the bible" etc and you think you are above that because you have been here close to a decade - but have you actually read it?? Because seriously, your comments in this thread are AFC stage 1.

 

[Tesl]

Going a little bit off topic but I can use it.

No she hasn't introduced me to anybody yet nor has she invited me to any parties. I'm not really worried about that yet. For one, it doesn't seem like good time to ask her if she has any single friends. Our status seems kind of murky as in, I really don't have a clue what's going on. I don't even know if she knows what she wants from me. Once I get a good solid rejection and know that it's not going to happen, then I can go that way.

As for parties, they don't seem to be happening over the summer. I asked her a while ago and she doesn't know when the next one is. She's not going to lie to me about that. Once school starts up again in a couple of weeks the parties should also happen and then maybe I can use her network. Of course that's assuming we are still cool.

I need to play this game pretty delicately. My primary goal is to have sex with her, and I need to keep pushing towards that route. But I need to do it in a way that won't piss her off and have her delete me from her life. I need to maintain some friendship.

I'm going to contact her in a couple of days and try to get her to see me when it's dark. It's going to be more difficult since I need to do it on a weekday and she has class twice a week.

1) You are WAY over thinking this. AGAIN.
2) Whats the problem with meeting her friends whilst being interested at the same time? It doesn't need to be one or the other
3) You don't need to ask her to about her single friends. Just meet up with her friends, then find out yourself whether they are single or not.

Please Please PLEASE start actually LISTENING to what people tell you on these boards. Your problem is you just keep coming back with updates when you are going against what every single person tells you. If you keep doing what you are doing then you are going to end up being single forever.

 

[Maxtro]

Tesl, thanks for your post. I appreciate the feedback.

You seem to already know that I have a lot of frustration, anger and bitterness towards women. My first thought is to vent at them, and spew venom. Though I now know better. If you looked into my past threads, you will actually find an incident where I did such a thing. Of course it ended terribly and I never spoke to her again. I have learned much from my experiences.

I like your idea of presenting things from her perspective. Frankly I am confused on what she's thinking.

From the very first time that we got lunch and I asked if she were seeing anybody and then asking for her number should be enough to convey my interest. After that I asked her out a couple of times before we did our bike ride thing. At this point I don't know if she thought I was going for a friend thing or something more. If you read my other thread, the one with bike ride in the title, you'll read that I plainly expressed my interest to her. Hell, I actually told her that I liked her. There is no way she could misunderstand that. I also jokingly asked for a kiss at the end of that date. So either she knows I'm interested, or she's an idiot.

Here's what I think, she's thinking about me. He's a friendly/nice guy who likes me. He's asked me out a couple of times. He hasn't tried to kiss me or even hold my hand. He made a joke about getting a kiss. He seems shy and/or unconfident. The next time I saw him, he was getting more brazen with his words. Said he was going to keep me warm, joked about sticky stuff (eww), suggested we go skinny dipping, asked if I'd had sex on the beach, wants me to come back to his place, wants to go out for drinks. He's probably trying to get me or himself loosened up. For whatever reason, I don't want to drink around him.

Of course that's only my educated guess on what's going on in her head. With her words she has told me that she only wants to be friends. Of course I've read that you can't believe a woman based on her words alone.

Calling her out, and accusing her that she is just teasing me and trying to keep me as an orbiter will do nothing but make her mad and ignore me forever. I know that whether I'm actually right or not, doesn't make a difference. All I can do is try to make a physical move. She has no right to be shocked because I have made it clear that I am interested.

1) You are WAY over thinking this. AGAIN.

Actually I wasn't thinking about it all until 1 Bad Dude brought it up. When it was brought to my attention I did my usual point-by-point explanation. I have sense forgotten about it till you brought it up. The only thought I have is that I want her. I never think about her friends or social life etc.

2) Whats the problem with meeting her friends whilst being interested at the same time? It doesn't need to be one or the other
3) You don't need to ask her to about her single friends. Just meet up with her friends, then find out yourself whether they are single or not.

There is no problem with meeting her friends. Though over the years I have had several close female friends, and none of them have introduced me to or invited me to hang out with her friends. It just has not happened. It has always been just me and the girl. Assuming things don't downhill with this chick, I'll eventually meet her friends. Though it won't be until she wants me to.