Salute for the Fallen

Pook

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This article illustrates more than the writer intends:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/15/divorce.suicide.wmd/index.html

The article says that there is a high suicide rate for divorced men. The suicide rate for divorced women and single men is much lower, so much lower that this article was written to wonder why it is so.

What is funny is that the story interviews the *experts*: psychologists or family law people. In other words, these the 'egghead' people.

Never once in the article do they interview a divorced man. They also do not remark on the suicide notes these men make.

However, any one of us can go and ask a divorced man why divorced men are highly likely to commit suicide. They tell me they are not surprised at all by such statistics. They say many divorced men want to commit suicide because:

-They found out the hard way that the wife was not who she said she was. She ends up becoming a demi-devil, initiating the divorce, creating lies about her husband, and attempts to turn the kids against him.

-That his 'deep love' was used as a manipulation tool.

-Realization that the law and family courts are stacked in the woman's favor.

-But the big reason is the fact that he cannot start anew. He is forever bound financially. He must pay child support and 'support' for the wife. He does not mind child support (since he knows it is his job as a father to take care of his children) but is furious that there is no overseer that all the money goes to the kids, or that the 'amount' of money for the kids is justified.

This is what they have told me. Now let us see the reasons the *eggheads* have. Speak eggheads!

The difference, he theorized, lies in how men and women form social bonds. Men make friends with whom they can hang out, and women make friends with whom they can share their feelings. "Women are socialized to have more friends, deeper friendships, and so on. Men are socialized differently, to be macho, and do not have much deeper friendships. So when a divorce occurs, women have more of a social support network."
Translated: "Women do not commit as much after-divorce suicide because they are superior to men. Women have
super-human female powers that men do not, such as creating networks of social support with other women, and women are so superior to men with their super feminine powers that they have much deeper friendships."

We know better. Friendship among women is paper thin, they stab their girlfriend in the back if it suits them.

If your best bud came by and had a hot new girlfriend, you think, "Hey, I ought to get myself a hot new girlfriend too!"

For women it is different. The girl finds her best girlfriend comes by and has a hot new boyfriend, she thinks, "OMG, I MUST have that guy!! I'll do anything for it even if I have to slit that b*tch's throat!"

Deep friendship indeed.

But the article hilariously undermines itself by including single men as having much less suicide than divorced men. Single men, like all men, would be, in the egghead's eyes, inferior to women's super-human social network and friendship abilities.

Another egghead says:

Another reason why men may have problems coping with divorce is that they not only lose the role of husband, but their fatherly role also often changes, said Bruce Hillowe, J.D., Ph.D., a family law attorney and a clinical psychologist in Long Island, New York.

"It's still generally the case that when children are involved, the mother becomes the custodial parent," said Hillowe. Generally speaking, "men lose the role of being a father in a way that women do not lose the role of being a mother."
The number one reason I hear from divorced men of why they DON'T commit suicide is because of their children.

What is most sad is that men see the family as breaking up, the women often see it as a family upgrade. "Look kids, you're getting a new father. An upgraded better father!"

Compounding the problem: Men often feel like they're responsible for the failure of a marriage, said Alvin Baraff, Ph.D., an expert on relationships from a male perspective, and founder and director of Men Center Counseling in Washington, D.C.

"Typically, the man is shocked at the news that he's going to be divorced," said Baraff, noting that women initiate the majority of divorce proceedings.
If the woman initiates the divorce, why does the man feel guilty? A man can be guilty for many things, and he can make mistakes as a husband (for he is Human and Humans make mistakes). But it is unreasonable to conclude that the man is always guilty. How did the woman fare as a wife? Could part of the problem be due to the woman at all?

These questions are not asked. The article gives us this explanation:

"The woman has also been dropping hints all over the place for the man, but he just doesn't get it. He never thinks it's as bad as she does. He's lost not only a wife, he typically loses his children, home, and money."
Translation: "He doesn't get it because he is stupid. Women cannot even be partially blamed because women's communication skills, as we all know, are super-human for each woman is a social-genius and we would do well to learn from such genius."

But, eggheads, pray tell, surely the women suffer as well?

That's not to say divorce is a bed of roses for women, said Howard Markman, Ph.D., author of "Fighting for Your Marriage" and a psychologist at The University of Denver. Rather, the findings reflect different coping styles between the sexes. "Men, in general, in the face of stress, tend to do more destructive coping, like turn to substance abuse," Markman said.
So what do the women do to 'cope'? The article does not say, it merely goes on. The article says the women also must 'cope' but it never hints at anything. For all we know, women cope well with divorces (not because they possess super-human emotional talents) but because they see it as an improvement in their lives.

"Blasphemy! How dare you say such a thing!"

If it wasn't an improvement, then why do most women initiate the divorce anyway?

The article is not concerned about that. Nor does it dare ask such questions.

What the article does tell us is that men's talents differ from women with one thing:

Self destruction.

Already, the article lists men cope with stress in self destructive ways. Divorced men commit more suicides not because they are 'sadder' than the divorced women, but because men are more violent as a gender!

"That is extreme for you to say."

But what other conclusion can be made from the following:

"He pointed out that men tend to have a higher suicide rate because they are more likely to use guns to kill themselves, whereas women attempt suicide with less lethal methods, such as poisonings or cuts."
So according to this, women are equally distressed about their divorce. They, however, have a lower suicide rate because they try to kill themselves but they lack the 'self destruction' talents that the article says men hold.

Kposowa analyzed data on more than 472,000 people collected from 1979 to 1989. Of that group, 545 people committed suicide, with men outnumbering women four-to-one.

Confirming other studies on suicide, Kposowa found that for both sexes, poverty and age increased the risk of killing oneself -- those 65 and over have a 55 percent greater risk than people aged 15 to 24.
We know that if a man is poor, a woman won't marry him in the first place. So where did this poverty come from? Could it have come from the payments along with the home?

Also, the higher the age, the less likely the man can start over.

White men in the study were also 51 percent more likely than African American men to commit suicide, a finding that may suggest a stronger support network among men in the black community, Kposowa said.
How does it 'suggest' it? The article does not say. How does this correlation hint at the causation of lack of social support? There is no answer.

If the 51 percent is true, then that means African American men commit suicide at a rate of 2-1 against women. This is still majorly flopsided. Perhaps this is seen as 'normal' in the eggheads' eyes since they think all men naturally fall to patterns of self destruction.

The study emphasizes the need to adjust the gender roles expected by society, said Constance Ahrons, Ph.D., author of "The Good Divorce" and a sociology professor at the University of Southern California. But experts admit that convincing men to acquaint themselves with their emotional side can be a hard sell. "Maybe, if we go back to (a younger) age, we can teach men skills for having friendships," Ahrons said.
Translated: "The reason why divorced men are slaughtering themselves is the fault due to artificial gender roles. We must indoctrinate young men to be more like women so they will adopt the feminine super-human communication/social network/deep friendships that women have. Men, currently, are inable to have friendships. Thus, we need more feminity in society so they will adopt the super-powers that women have."

This quote is insulting to say the least. Anything men do is their fault. The article says that divorces are man's fault. It also says that men kill themselves because they are inferior to women (since they lack the female super-support ability).
 

Pook

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When someone says "changing gender roles" a red flag should come up. The idea of being able to change gender roles is the product of Feminism, and Feminism is the product of Rousseau. Rousseau was the one who said that all of civilization is artificial, especially our 'roles' in it. Communists and fascists also believe society is artificial where they can 'mold it' like a potter molds the clay. A married man with family has extreme stress from his wife and kids so his belly grows and hair falls out. But he has status; he is a 'success' by society's standards because he is married and has kids. Take that status away, which divorce does, he has nothing to hang his identity on except to be a serf to the state and to the ex-wife who demands all these 'payments'. Suicide follows because suicide is seen as being less painful than living a life of a serf.

This may explain why the divorced men I've met remind me of those people locked in fear societies in Communist nations.

Unlike prior research on marriage and suicide, this study showed that widowed and single people weren't at higher risk for suicide.

"With death (of a spouse), I don't think there is that sense of failure that follows divorce. There's no sense of personal inadequacy," Hillowe explained. "I guess in (the) case (of divorce) it's not better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all."
The article cannot explain the high divorce suicide rate. But the explanation is very simple: the legal system and the women that make up these ex-wifes are corrupt. Why is this answer never explored or considered?

The last sentence of the article should come to young men's ears as an endorsment not to marry in America, at least not in the 'average' manner else you become the 'average' statistic.

Divorced men are often given the status of criminals. They are struggling to survive, given a financial sentence that exceeds most jail sentences.

Killed by bullets and bombs in Iraq and Afgahnistan, I have had to bury my school mates. They were given full honors (as they should). Most that fell were victims from the bullet that came out of nowhere, a victim in the line of the war that is burning against civilization.

The majority of these divorced men are the same way. In society's books, they are losers who are seen as 'stupid', as being unable to keep the wife satisfied, who recieve a stiffer sentence than most crimes, and who deserve to be spit on.

But in my books, they are the same as the fallen on the battlefield. They too were cut down by an unseen bullet, by an unseen rot of politic worms suckling the blood of good men, from those who fight to protect to those who labor back at home. The difference is that their war was unseen and wasn't grasped as they were being eaten alive and chewed, until the beast swallowed them down to the abyss of frequent payments and exile status.

If they did not fall, we could have been them. Now, men are seeing the corpses and are beginning to sense toothed vaginas wanting to swallow them whole.

Line up men! They deserve the honors from the younger generation. Is everyone dressed in their full Don Juan uniforms? Good. Only a twenty one gun salute can acknowledge their debt to freedom.

"Stand by Ready!"

To all our brothers fallen by the legal, financial, and social rape committed by demi-devils, we hear the tale of the system's carnal, scheming, and unnatural acts, of intentional judgements, blinded justice, and of your deaths put on by cunning and forced cause.

"Ready!"

We pledge not to be so easily taken and will pick up the weapon you threw up when you fell. Fathers, brothers, friends alike- we salute you.

"Fire!"

What is a man if his good and time be but to grunt and work? To create an artifical place for women and society to insult us, manipulate us, and devour the fruits of our labor? A donkey, no more.

Surely our creator made us with a large canvas, to host the fire of invention and light imagination and god-like reason to not fust in us unused.

"Fire!"

Nor to bestial oblivion or status stained copy shall our actions compose. We must uplift the men who walk on eggshells and make war with the castrating spirit of the time.

I see the immenent death of millions of young men, that, for a paradise seen within women or carrot of status, happily hop on the slaughterhouse System like a bed. What conclusion is there but that men must go their own way?

"Fire!"

Their lives so gentle; and the elements so mixed in them that Nature stands and says to all the world "THESE WERE MEN!" We must remember them... no one else will.

Sleep well, men... and may a fleet of angels send you to rest.
 

tactic

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....
 

Levex

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You have too much free time on your hands.

WAY too much.
 

RogueMarauder

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Show a little respect. The man's trying to potentially save your life one day and you berate him for wasting time. No wonder the smart guys never return to this site; thousands of guys pleading for help, yet no one's listening anyway.
 

You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

djbr

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He probably has his own plan of attack.

But you're asking the wrong questions.

What are YOU going to do about it?
 

Flogger

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Well, I can take care of myself.

But anyone have any ideas about resurrecting man on a larger scale?
 

al77

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Originally posted by Flogger
Well, I can take care of myself.

But anyone have any ideas about resurrecting man on a larger scale?
Flogger I am with you.

Regarding larger scale: I think a good men magazine that talks about dating in non-AFC way would do that.

It is a catch22 though: men who can start this magazine do market research and find that men in general are not willing to spend money on "dating advice", therefore... there is no advice for them :(
Why? men are scared to admit they need dating advice.. and many - scared of women.

On a more local level: orginize a discussion group "for men only".
But it doesnt pay.. it requires time.. I know, I know.
But somehow when I open my local free newspaper I see like 5 free groups for women, and I live in a tiny city.
"Moms of Citisvilles", "Women of of Citisvilles", a group that for divorced women, etc.
They are there...for men? yes, sure - AA.
 

crowes22

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Originally posted by RogueMarauder
Show a little respect. The man's trying to potentially save your life one day and you berate him for wasting time. No wonder the smart guys never return to this site; thousands of guys pleading for help, yet no one's listening anyway.
Ditto, I like the post and know it's insightful. Great Post!
 

If you want to talk, talk to your friends. If you want a girl to like you, listen to her, ask questions, and act like you are on the edge of your seat.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Create Reality

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What is a man if his good and time be but to grunt and work? To create an artifical place for women and society to insult us, manipulate us, and devour the fruits of our labor? A donkey, no more.
I've always wondered why women love asses ;)

But this all brings up the point of, who will judge the women?
 

DJDamage

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In Ontario Canada the divorce laws are one of the worsts for men.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1035910493860_104

Latest I heard is that the new ruling allows judges to revisit spousal support agreements.

from my understanding 7-10 years down the road your ex- wife needs more money and she can ask the court to order you to pay more?? what kinda B.S law is this?? no wonder Canadian men are running scared from marriage.
 

sifer

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While...
If your best bud came by and had a hot new girlfriend, you think, "Hey, I ought to get myself a hot new girlfriend too!"

For women it is different. The girl finds her best girlfriend comes by and has a hot new boyfriend, she thinks, "OMG, I MUST have that guy!! I'll do anything for it even if I have to slit that b*tch's throat!"
Was actually spoken by Chris Rock in his stand-ups, everything else seemed great.

I do, indeed, salute for the Fallen!
 

It doesn't matter how good-looking you are, how romantic you are, how funny you are... or anything else. If she doesn't have something INVESTED in you and the relationship, preferably quite a LOT invested, she'll dump you, without even the slightest hesitation, as soon as someone a little more "interesting" comes along.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Pook

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Originally posted by Flogger
Well, I can take care of myself.

But anyone have any ideas about resurrecting man on a larger scale?
Most men fall because of the allure of status.

Let us say I like fishing. I date a goddess who HATES fishing and prefers we go to the opera. I HATE opera. Since she isn't going where I want in life, we break up.

A loser would say, "OMG, Pook lost the goddess!"

I didn't *lose* the goddess. I filtered her out.

This entire forum could be whittled down to two rules:

1) When to get with a woman.

2) When to get away from a woman.

We place too much focus on the first. How to approach? How to bed her? How to keep her?

But when do you throw her away? How do you know she is bad news?

Since we're only concerned with the first rule, the only issue that comes up is the c*ck blocker. But what about the Life Blocker? You need to get away from a woman when she becomes a Life Blocker.

Let us say you are an artist. Your girl prefers you stay in your Banking job and not pursue your passion for art. This is Life Blocking.

Let us say you have no time to yourself to pursue the projects that you were working on because of all your time being sucked (literally) away by the girlfriend. This is Life Blocking.

Let us say you spend your days gathering colorful clothes and going into debt for a shiny new car. You've wasted time and money that sets you back. This is Life Blocking.

A good woman will not Life Block you. All relationships take some time and effort, but she must like your life. If a woman truly likes you, she will help you succeed in your ambitions.

Why many men do not see the Life Blocker is because they are addicted to status.

"What are some of the status addictions, Pook?"

When you were young, it was trying to be the smartest kid in the class, or the 'toughest'. But sometime as you got older, the 'status' revolved around girls. Guys would show off their notebooks to others if a girl wrote on it. The 'hotter' girls would go for the higher 'status' guys, so it seemed.

Getting married, having children, is very much about 'status' with the men that blindly do it. "I am a man!" so they think. The financial and emotional costs of divorce is bad enough, but the removal of the status element after your entire lifetime was invested in this fiction can easily drive a man to suicide.

So many men become lawyers, actors, or other professions solely because of status. But you would be better off owning a small business, naturally. Which is better, a new sports car or an investment in Bershire Hathaway? Financially, the asset wins over the liability. But people are addicted to liabilities (in same manner as other addictions) because it gives them status. People want to 'appear' rich, to have the status of being rich. This is why many end up in debt.

But forget finances. How many of yu act differently to gain social status? Do you tell people what they want to hear? Do you try to 'appear' confident for the fear they may find out you're are not?

It's only once you've lost it all, once you've become nothing that you're free to do everything.

"What about women? Don't they use men as status?"

As is the fashion of Western Civilization, we personify objects and objectify people. Girlfriends, wives, and mothers see her husbands or children as products. We are trotted about like an old war house in a parade in front of her friends to 'show off'. Many have an idea for what they want you to become. She wants you to change.

But in men have no place in Women's World. If a woman was alone in a harem full of men, she'd be bored to tears. Women dress very well on occassion for attention purposes. If a man turns around and sees her, that is good. She is pleased. But... if a woman turns around and sees her, then HER DAY IS MADE! Many women live in a bizzaro 'status' world. You may have noticed that women toss around 'roles' as if they mean she is multiple people. "I am a mother, a sister, a cousin, a wife, an aunt, a grandmother, a Human Resources worker, etc."

A male's quest for status is to be ground up to be consumed by women.

Why don't we live our own lives? If a woman's life runs in the same direction of mine, all is good. To hell with status.

The plan for attack is simple. Instead of putting time and effort to love women, love life instead. Then bring women into your life. If she doesn't like your life, kick her out and go get another. You'll find the One when she loves your life.

As for the Divorce Industry, getting more people informed will bring it down.
 

Flogger

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Nice reply all around.

Originally posted by Pook
The plan for attack is simple. Instead of putting time and effort to love women, love life instead. Then bring women into your life. If she doesn't like your life, kick her out and go get another. You'll find the One when she loves your life.
Funny how obvious and natural that sounds.

We're ruled by the fear of never getting a woman, or never being able to get another.


But we do risk two things when enforcing high standards:

Ditching someone who ebbs and flows in their desirability is ditching a normal human. Everyone does this. So be careful to measure the average of the person you're thinking of throwing out.

Just as there's a cost to living with someone that drags you down, there's a cost to hunting for and/or evaluating a new prospect. I do think it's better to live alone than with someone that detracts from your life. But it isn't always a party when you're constantly filtering people.


My gf is in the phase where she would happily hand over one of her kidneys. That phase may pass though, as it often does.

If only there were a litmus test to tell if her love is complete and indefinite. If you can't figure those out, you figure you might as well take a risk. And then comes marriage.

Peaches can be perfectly sweet and then turn sour years later.

But that's life. And it's awesome.
 

djbr

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Haha.

This reminds me when I got asked about my **** POS car:

I was talking something like this: dude, I do not like to drive with my mom in my car. My car sucks and my mom deserves better.

"What if you have to put a woman in there?"

I just said: WHAT? If a woman think my car is the cr*p, I just tell her to go find another man! My mother is something entirely different!
 

spider_007

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pook, bro, your mi idol.

however, there is something you need to understand. this is the new millenium, Men and woman no longer merry out of necessity, they merry out of ROMANCE. (romance being a imaginary thing to which every relationship is compared to.) It only makes sence that (with the new found freedom woman have)they would divorce the man at first sign of trouble. And men for some reason think they still need woman.....

you are probably a god with woman (compared to me) but you got to realize some things on "NATURE OF WOMAN" and evolution of man kind. Because of todays circumstances (obundance of everyting) the society had to change and femenisam was invented (woman no longer depending on men to survive). So now you have millions of independent woman who don't know what they wan't. they are fee to do anything they want but, they are still feeling the same instincst and urges they ware feeling for millions of years......One of the reasons why a 40 year old carrier woman (making millions) quit their job to become mothers. Another example is why 40 year old single chicks are so desperate to find Mr. Right. (too bad its all based on romance-an imaginary thing born on the same day as femenisam)

Yess it pisses me off too when I see a man being riped off, but life isn't fair. The law is slow to change, and so is the culture. It's your resopnsability as a lowyer and a MAN to do your part in changing it. Also, quit being bitter, You adopt to the circumstances. You urge sex, INTIMACY, companionship, children (all together known as; love) you can have all that with out marrieage......MARRIAGE STRIKE PEOPLE!!!!
 

diplomatic_lies

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The Super Patented Solution to dealing with b*tchy women:

Don't deal with them.


Now give me the $79.95 you were gonna spend on an Anthony Robbins seminar.
 
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