"Romantic Rivalry" ??

[ketostix]

Thanks, Iqqi, but I won't. What would be the point?

The point would be so far I totally agree with everything you've said so far. And If we're going to have female posters giving their input at least let them be sensible ones. I'm sure if you did stick around you'd start saying things I didn't agree with though.

 

[Latinoman]

Dude....seriously.....I usually sit home 6 nights per week, then one night I go out with my friends, male AND female. It's 2008, not 12,000 BC. Some people can pull this off these days.

Then why you complain so much about the women that happen to be in "x" party or "y" club or with you or your friends?

That's the point I am trying to make.

 

[Latinoman]

Thanks, Iqqi, but I won't. What would be the point?

I spoke up to help a sister, so to speak, because I have good friends and I know how important they are. .

A sister? LOL...that sounds a little feminist. But that's cool.
Just don't get carry away...remember, we only know ONE SIDE of the story. For all we know, Iqqi is trying to put a claim on the best looking men out there...and those men happen to find her YOUNGER and HOTTER friend attractive. That could potentially be the case for all we know.

 

[Latinoman]

Believe me I understand.

3.5 years later and almost 3,000 posts later...and she "understands". Such a martyr and victim.

 

[Rosemarie]

A sister? LOL...that sounds a little feminist. But that's cool.
Just don't get carry away...remember, we only know ONE SIDE of the story. For all we know, Iqqi is trying to put a claim on the best looking men out there...and those men happen to find her YOUNGER and HOTTER friend attractive. That could potentially be the case for all we know.

Latinoman, there are so many unverified assumptions behind this scenario that there's no point in entertaining it.

However, if you dig through Iqqi's original post, you find a critical piece of information.

"This isn't the first time she has "captured the attention" of a guy that I was trying to get to know."

That right there is enough to nail this woman as a competitive flirt, which is a big problem.

But wait, there's more! In Iqqi's second post, she says:

"She is a new friend that I made over the summer, who has become something like my "right hand man"."

Remember what I said about dysfunctional people trying to get others to invest heavily in them up front? Last summer isn't that long ago, and the picture looks even worse when Iqqi says,

"She is a faithful "wing man" in the sense that she has come out with me and stayed longer than she wanted to when I was the only one really having a blast.

It suggests a lack of boundaries. She either cannot entertain herself when she's not the center of attention, or won't say no when she should. Another possibility is that she's trying to build up a debt, so that when she wants something from Iqqi that isn't in Iqqi's best interests, she can guilt-trip Iqqi into giving her what she wants. In any case, this isn't as cool as it sounds.

There's also this.

"She admitted that she had never really had a girl friend before,"

21 and never really had a girl friend? Hello? Maybe there's a reason for this? Like she's too dysfunctional to sustain relationships?

It doesn't matter if she's younger. It doesn't matter if she's hotter. What counts is her behavior. When a friend is trying to make a good impression on a man, you don't go in there and chat him up yourself.

This woman doesn't need a friend, she needs a therapist.

 

[Latinoman]

Rosemarie...I don't disagree with your assessment. All I am saying is that what a woman in her late 20s doing hanging around with a 21 year old woman that has all that drama and a history of being disfunctional? Worst, what a woman in her late 20s doing using that 21 year old as a "wingwoman"?

And last, but not least, what a woman in her late 20s doing competing with that young girl for the sexual attention of PEERS and CO-workers outside her cubicle?


It seems to me...that Iqqi needs to mature more and be more selective on the kind of people she socialize with...the kind of "men" she develops a crush on (never seen a MATURED woman with SEVERAL crushes)...and more selective on the kind of signals she is sending to peers and co-workers.

 

[iqqi]

Well I am not going to explain again why I hang out with a 21 year old. I hang out with a very diverse group of people period, as long as a person is mature on most accounts, they are fine by me. I hang out with people of all kinds of different races, ages, religions and (gasp) genders. It helped me become who I am. My mother was the same way when she was my age, many of her best friends ranged in ages. I am GLAD I am more open minded than the majority of people who exist these days.

Also, when I meet people, I almost always look younger than them. A lot of them in their early 20's look older than 30! We don't always start conversations off with "how old are you." Sometimes that doesn't even come up for awhile. What sense would it make to all of a sudden CEASE a friendship because you find out they are younger or older than you, or what you thought? This isn't high school, you don't know right off the bat who is a senior and who is a freshman.

As for who looks better, well there are always going to be people with different opinions. People have different types. I am even openminded to consider what you are saying, but it doesn't really seem to apply, not even in this situation. And not ususally, either.

Most men go for me. Yippee, I guess that means I am hotter than her. ? Or it could mean I have better eye contact, or it could mean they like my hair, or they like short girls, or... or... all kinds of stuff.

In the situation I gave you all, the guy could have flirted with her all night. She was playing darts with him! She kept going near him, and at one point she even went and stood right next to him. I think at one point, he even got the idea that I had, that she was TRYING to get near him. I could tell by a certain tilt of the head, and look he had. "What is this chick trying to do?" Because it was awkward.

It was obvious he was interested in me, that is why he kept coming over to me, flirting with me, trying to find out more about me and my life. That is why when she came and stood next to him, he got that weird "what is she doing look", and stepped away from her and came and stood next to me.

It isn't even that complicated to figure out.

At the end of the night, he either got upset some other guy got in where he was trying to get so he gave his # to the person he knew I'd be with in the future, OR he is a shmuck and knew ole girl was interested, so he went with the easy target because I was no longer available.

It's one of the two. One is fantastic, the other is gross.

I guess I will just have to see.

 

[LovelyLady]

Iqqi,

I have not read anything in this long thread but your opening post and I want to talk with you a bit, if I may?

I gather from your posts in other threads that you pride yourself in being a female Don Juan of sorts, but Crush is a MAN... and you tried to "game" him like you were the man and he was the Woman... you reversed roles.

You may have wanted him to think other guys are interested in you and somehow "up" your value - as they say here - but he was already interested from what you said.

You say you are attractive (I believe you are) so don't you, in all honesty, know that any man with half a mind already assumes a ton of guys already want you? Why put your energy in the direction of trying to prove what is already old news?

The NEW news was that you guys were connecting... and YOU left him when you connected with Old Acquaintance- you played a game - he saw you play games - so WHY would he want to have a loyalty (of sorts) to your interactions with him - when YOU showed no loyalty to him/your interactions with him?

Instead of him interpreting your actions as an effort to make him jealous/build his interest, (a standard male, Don Juan, action) - he may have just assumed you flirt indiscriminately, so why not hit on your friend?

Afterall, you were off flirting with Old Acquaintance - so how interested could you really be? (I mean this from evaluating your actions while with him).

As far as your female friend goes, if you abandon an interaction with a man you are interested in to go flirt with other guys, but she remains consistant in her presentation/communication of interest - even in a polite but consistant manner - of course they are going to ask for her number. That's just what guys DO!

You say "I thought about how it seemed like she had been making herself available to him" while you were off with Old Acquaintance. ... well, it's been my experience that men like women who are available.

Good guys would rather be with a woman who likes them, is consistant in their interest, available, kind - not off flirting with other guys - but into them.

As far as your female friend's age and/or looks -granted, looks are important- but only up to a point. Because frankly, IQ, there are tons of us good looking women out there - and there is always one younger, prettier, smarter, richer, more successful, or more talented than you or I right around the next corner.

What sets us women apart from one another is when we are a woman who loves well - right from the start - and it has been my experience that to a good man - a woman loving him well and respecting him consistantly from the very first interaction - is what holds his interest long enough to not have him flake and chase another woman after he and I connect.

Also, why should your friend remain "loyal" to you when a good guy comes her way and she sees you off flirting with other men? From what you have said YOU set the tone that night that all was fair in Don Juan gaming - sounds like you want to play by one set of rules and expect him and her to play by another.

We women have been seducing men for ages - I concur with you that we have had "game" reaching back into the eternal past - but to "game" a Man - with a Man's (Don Juan's) technique will not be effective on a masculine (real)man.

The art of seduction as a woman is subtle - just you even glancing briefly at another man while you talk to a guy that likes you sends off warning bells in his head - so of course spending 15 minutes flirting it up with another man at the bar and leaving him available /open to talk with other women - well, I guess to me it makes perfect sense that he asked your friend for her number.

I always appreciate the frankness with which you post, IQ, and I hope my saying these things does not offend you. (By the way, I always thought your name was a play on "Intelligence Quotient")

 

[iqqi]

Iqqi,

I have not read anything in this long thread but your opening post and I want to talk with you a bit, if I may?

I gather from your posts in other threads that you pride yourself in being a female Don Juan of sorts, but Crush is a MAN... and you tried to "game" him like you were the man and he was the Woman... you reversed roles.

You may have wanted him to think other guys are interested in you and somehow "up" your value - as they say here - but he was already interested from what you said.

You say you are attractive (I believe you are) so don't you, in all honesty, know that any man with half a mind already assumes a ton of guys already want you? Why put your energy in the direction of trying to prove what is already old news?

The NEW news was that you guys were connecting... and YOU left him when you connected with Old Acquaintance- you played a game - he saw you play games - so WHY would he want to have a loyalty (of sorts) to your interactions with him - when YOU showed no loyalty to him/your interactions with him?

Instead of him interpreting your actions as an effort to make him jealous/build his interest, (a standard male, Don Juan, action) - he may have just assumed you flirt indiscriminately, so why not hit on your friend?

Afterall, you were off flirting with Old Acquaintance - so how interested could you really be? (I mean this from evaluating your actions while with him).

Hey, LL, I did address most of this already, but I'll sum it up for you since your reply was so thought out and I appreciate it.

Game is just a word. It means a lot of things. It means not seeming too clingy, too interested, and IMO is important when the man in question has 2-3 other chicks doing just that.

Also, Old Acquaintance was a surprise. I left Crush Guy to go find my girl. And ran into an old friend who moved away. I didn't go flirt with him. I didn't even flirt, actually! I turned down a drink. No way in hell I am just going to diss or brush off a friend, just because I am worried about losing some other guy's interest.

Then I left the friend, to go back to the Crush guy. It was all good, til Old Acquaintance saw me 3 mins later. Looking back on it, it is obvious from a few looks and a few lines uttered, that they did indeed look at each other like competitors. Funny! Ok, guys, not really, but it is slightly amusing in retrospect.

 

[iqqi]

As far as your female friend's age and/or looks -granted, looks are important- but only up to a point. Because frankly, IQ, there are tons of us good looking women out there - and there is always one younger, prettier, smarter, richer, more successful, or more talented than you or I right around the next corner.

What sets us women apart from one another is when we are a woman who loves well - right from the start - and it has been my experience that to a good man - a woman loving him well and respecting him consistantly from the very first interaction - is what holds his interest long enough to not have him flake and chase another woman after he and I connect.

Also, why should your friend remain "loyal" to you when a good guy comes her way and she sees you off flirting with other men? From what you have said YOU set the tone that night that all was fair in Don Juan gaming - sounds like you want to play by one set of rules and expect him and her to play by another.

We women have been seducing men for ages - I concur with you that we have had "game" reaching back into the eternal past - but to "game" a Man - with a Man's (Don Juan's) technique will not be effective on a masculine (real)man.

The art of seduction as a woman is subtle - just you even glancing briefly at another man while you talk to a guy that likes you sends off warning bells in his head - so of course spending 15 minutes flirting it up with another man at the bar and leaving him available /open to talk with other women - well, I guess to me it makes perfect sense that he asked your friend for her number.

I always appreciate the frankness with which you post, IQ, and I hope my saying these things does not offend you. (By the way, I always thought your name was a play on "Intelligence Quotient")

I agree with most of this, however my friend knew the man I was interested in, and if you find RoseMarie and Penkittens responses, they hit it head on why I am upset.

There were plenty of other good looking men at the party, and 3 of them were playing darts with us! She had a nice selection. I believe she was competing with me more than anything.

I agree about the whole art of seduction thing, however I did not come there with Crush Guy, I did not intentionally flirt with Old Acquaintance, I actually made myself more available and friendly to Crush Guy then I usually ever do in most circumstances.

I like how it all went. Right up to the damned Old Acquaintance ruining everything!!

And no, speaking your opinion will never offend me! I appreciate all intelligent view points. You can even watch mine shift a few times during the course of this thread!

 

[Desdinova]

That right there is enough to nail this woman as a competitive flirt, which is a big problem.

This goddam thread is 12 pages long, yet Mr. Crush still hasn't recieved any of the credit for number closing iqqi's friend instead of iqqi.

Iqqi, if he was interested in you, HE WOULD HAVE NUMBER-CLOSED YOU! But you're still blaming your friend for Mr. Crush being attracted to her.

Have you ever thought that Mr. Crush has NEVER been attracted to you? Did you even think that Mr. Crush was attracted to your friend the first time he saw her?

Mr. Crush is NOT going to be attracted to you just because you want him to be. Rejection is a bytch, and it's not just men who have to learn to deal with it. Women have to learn how to deal with it as well.

 

[iqqi]

This goddam thread is 12 pages long, yet Mr. Crush still hasn't recieved any of the credit for number closing iqqi's friend instead of iqqi.

Iqqi, if he was interested in you, HE WOULD HAVE NUMBER-CLOSED YOU! But you're still blaming your friend for Mr. Crush being attracted to her.

Have you ever thought that Mr. Crush has NEVER been attracted to you? Did you even think that Mr. Crush was attracted to your friend the first time he saw her?

Mr. Crush is NOT going to be attracted to you just because you want him to be. Rejection is a bytch, and it's not just men who have to learn to deal with it. Women have to learn how to deal with it as well.

Yeah, I addressed that here:

As for who looks better, well there are always going to be people with different opinions. People have different types. I am even openminded to consider what you are saying, but it doesn't really seem to apply, not even in this situation. And not ususally, either.

Most men go for me. Yippee, I guess that means I am hotter than her. ? Or it could mean I have better eye contact, or it could mean they like my hair, or they like short girls, or... or... all kinds of stuff.

In the situation I gave you all, the guy could have flirted with her all night. She was playing darts with him! She kept going near him, and at one point she even went and stood right next to him. I think at one point, he even got the idea that I had, that she was TRYING to get near him. I could tell by a certain tilt of the head, and look he had. "What is this chick trying to do?" Because it was awkward.

It was obvious he was interested in me, that is why he kept coming over to me, flirting with me, trying to find out more about me and my life. That is why when she came and stood next to him, he got that weird "what is she doing look", and stepped away from her and came and stood next to me.

It isn't even that complicated to figure out.

At the end of the night, he either got upset some other guy got in where he was trying to get so he gave his # to the person he knew I'd be with in the future, OR he is a shmuck and knew ole girl was interested, so he went with the easy target because I was no longer available.

It's one of the two. One is fantastic, the other is gross.

I guess I will just have to see.

 

[iqqi]

Guess what! I am very perceptive. I catch on to things REAL quick. I'm not naive, or blind, or the type to see what I want.

I am spelling things out here, but many people in real life can get a sense of a situation.

He was interested in MOI. At first.

That I am certain of.

The rest I am fairly certain of too.

 

[Rosemarie]

Rosemarie...I don't disagree with your assessment. All I am saying is that what a woman in her late 20s doing hanging around with a 21 year old woman that has all that drama and a history of being disfunctional? Worst, what a woman in her late 20s doing using that 21 year old as a "wingwoman"?

And last, but not least, what a woman in her late 20s doing competing with that young girl for the sexual attention of PEERS and CO-workers outside her cubicle?

That's all beside the point. Iqqi asked a very specific question, and it deserved a straight answer.

It seems to me...that Iqqi needs to mature more and be more selective on the kind of people she socialize with...the kind of "men" she develops a crush on (never seen a MATURED woman with SEVERAL crushes)...and more selective on the kind of signals she is sending to peers and co-workers.

More distractions. Age gaps between friends and your personal opinion on how many crushes a woman is allowed to have at which age aren't on point. The truly disturbing thing here isn't what anyone can build up off a few details, it's that Iqqi even had to ask in the first place. The behavior she describes is pretty outrageous.

The encouraging thing is that she did ask. She's thinking about it, considering the possibility that her own boundaries are a little too elastic, and based on what she describes about the situation, that's a step in the right direction.

 

[wayword]

Wow, wayyy TMI.

Here's what it really simply boils down to:

- She's half your age and hotter. And also doesn't play games.
- You have lost your looks for leverage and yet are still playing hard to get.

This is like comparing a cranky old mule with an attitude to a playful new pony. A no-brainer...duh. Next?

 

[iqqi]

LOL, she's half my age. Are you old enough to be posting here!?

 

[iqqi]

It would probably really freak you out to know I almost dated an 18 year old last year. THAT was a close call.

I have decided to wait until he is 25, THEN I will accept his date. Besides his age however, he is pretty darned mature and has qualities in a man I RARELY see in anyone of any age.

I almost wept when I found out he had JUST GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!!

 

[wayword]

LOL, she's half my age. Are you old enough to be posting here!?

Look, I'm not going to waste time reading through your life story...

OBVIOUSLY though, she is significantly younger and hotter than you. And therefore is more attractive to men. Duh.

I just love it when women age and lose their looks...but yet still think they have the same sexual leverage as before. And that they don't have to start working harder or catering more in order to compensate for that.



Next?

 

[iqqi]

Look, I'm not going to waste time reading through your life story...

OBVIOUSLY though, she is significantly younger and hotter than you. And therefore is more attractive to men. Duh.

I just love it when women age and lose their looks...but yet still think they have the same sexual leverage as before. And that they don't have to start working harder or catering more in order to compensate for that.



Next?

I can tell by some of the links in your profile that you are clueless. However thanks for your contribution to my thread. I will surely take into consideration what you have said, and I will take a closer look into the mirror tonight, because surely me and everyone in real life who thinks I am 20 or 22 is wrong, and some guy on the net is right.

By the way, I wish I did look older, or more my age. It would save me some grief.

 

[Rosemarie]

Hey Iqqi,

I just thought of another way to look at this. See if you can think of a single situation in which this woman's behavior would be appropriate. Under what circumstances would you encourage it?

If the answer is none, then you've answered your own question.

Good luck, and best wishes to you.