religion and the ladies...

[route66]

Last gf I had got bothered by my atheism (though I never tried changing her into one). I just never wanted to go to church with her in the future if we should marry.

Now we had other problems....

but lately when I ask dudes where they look for honeys, some mention getting involved at church or temple to meet girls. Scoping it at the singles events.

I do not believe in god and probably never will.

DJ's, what are your thoughts on this?


route 66 is interested in your feedback.

 

[rgeere]

My advice is to look for women that have more in common with what you believe in retrospect to the universe. While girls with solid christian backgrounds usually make very good girlfriends/wives, unless you sincerily get converted and indoctrinated or vice versa there will always be some sort of barrier that could squelch your relationship. There is nothing worse than a divided household, and hopefully you don't want that.

 

[Duke]

I've got the same problem. I know an awesome chick, but she's Christian and I'm agnostic. I'm really frustrated because I believe that religion shouldn't be so significant; it shouldn't have the power to dictate human relationships the way it does. Core beliefs and behavior are much more important.

Hopefully I will be able to convey that to her, but it's just like this is a road block. An unnecessasary one at that.

 

[rgeere]

it's just like this is a road block. An unnecessasary one at that.

That's sort of what I was saying

 

[Mr. Fingers]

Dude I feel your pain. I used to be a hardcore right-wing Christian myself. Until I woke up one day and realized that while there may be one ultimate truth, there are many paths to get to it. As far as God, I don't believe in the traditional image of God...don't think he's a he or a she or anything our minds can pin down. Just a social contruct we have created to harness the power of the Unknown, which is what people fear most! To me God... is the soul of the universe experiencing itself through flavors of consciousness, we are all God, a poetic expression written across time!

See how much better that sounds than, "there is no God?" When you peg yourself as an atheist, alot of people will see you as some sort of supreme pessimist. I am personally against organized religion (atheism can be considered religion as well you know!) But you don't have to be religious to be SPIRITUAL! I have dated Christians, Hindus, Buddhists you name it. It's all the same sh!t !!! A bunch of people who think they are right and everyone else is dumb. Brings to mind something my sweet little grandma used to say to me, "Fingers" she said, "Opinions are like *******s...everybody has one and they think everyone else's stinks!" Wise words!

As far as how this applies to relationships, I have to say, this is a major factor in my selection process. Would I bone a Christian hottie? heh..Does the devil wear red??? Now, would I marry or have an LTR with one? Unless she is a VERY open minded one (good luck finding one of those) then Uh-uh no way man! For me to have that level of intimacy with someone, we have to connect on some deeeep levels. I don't care how fine she is..I want her to push my perception of the universe to new heights, not bore me to death with tired notions that other people have put into her head. I want a woman who is smarter, more in touch with her SOUL than that.

This is just my preference though. I have seen people of different religions get together and they seem happy. Only you can decide what is right for you, but I gotta say, when you meet that special girl who not only shares but ENHANCES your view of the world, you have truly struck gold, Route 66!

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by Mr. Fingers
I don't care how fine she is..I want her to push my perception of the universe to new heights, not bore me to death with tired notions that other people have put into her head. I want a woman who is smarter, more in touch with her SOUL than that.

I feel you, Fingers. I suppose that's a harsh way of weeding out someone for a LTR. When a girl seeks out another of her own faith for a relationship, I think it has more to do with agreeability than it does with the doctrines of her religion. She would rather someone validate what's been firmly implanted into her mind than challenge it.


You have to ask yourself, does anyone find conformity attractive?
That's what I see in a lot of girls who follow organized relgion--conformity.
I can't see how they can let their entire perception of the universe, existance, purpose in life, beliefs etc. be dictated to them by other people.

I also agree with what you said about the "supreme entity" not having a gender or a personality. People want to assign a face to everything. If a kid goes on a shooting rampage at school, it must be Marilyn Manson and those evil video games! You got heinously obese and you can't get a date to save your life? It must have been that evil McDonalds, selling the unhealthy food that you willingly bought.

People don't like to put in the effort required to objectively analyze things, and they fear the unknown. Laziness+Fear=Lies.
Laziness and fear are also what caused people to invent notions of heaven/the afterlife etc. People just couldn't accept the fact that they will never see some people again, and that the elaborate, synthetic infrastructure they created for life might be smashed by the discovery that life is a big pit of chaos devoid of reason.

In reality, no one knows what the fvck is going on-- but everyone's more secure being a know-it-all than admitting that they don't know. That, primarily, is the reason I'm frustrated with chicks that are into religion. They think they know it all and that if you disagree you're wrong. That @$$hole similie works.
Damn communists

I would have no problems getting along with the Christian chick I'm talking about. Our hearts are in the same place. It's as simple as her believing that God is a male entity, Jesus was his son, heaven and hell exist, etc. It DOESN'T make a difference to me at all, and I think deep down, it doesn't matter to her either. It's just that she invalidates everything that wanders outside the confines of her neat, little box. That means me, and it sucks.

Is there any way to get her to open her mind up? A fail-safe way to get her to see things from another vantage point?

 

[TheCloser]

Maybe, Just maybe...her religion isn't about doctrines and rules to follow, and more about her relationship with God. In which case, there would be no desire to marry a guy who is an atheist. I don't think it is about agreeablity in a relationship as much as it is about her closesness with God.

 

[es_mer8]

A lot of girls I know are Christians but really don't act like it. They occasionally go to church and say they like God and thats about the extent of the whole thing. My family are all Catholics but I have not attended their church in a couple of years. I dislike the church because they're always asking for money and unwisely spending it. 5 years ago they raised $100k that they said would go to charities and so on. What did they spend it on? New tiles, a new sound system, a nice new water fountain in the middle, and bonuses to the priests there. That pissed me off at the time because I had no income but I donated $20 and then to find them pissing it on **** that it wasn't intended bothered me. Then the whole priest sexually abusing boys was bad enough but how unwilling the Pope was to crack down on this really pissed me off. The church IMO is always about 3-4 centuries behind the times because they are strict conformists. They don't give a damn about your lives; they want your money and thats it. They always want money from you but never clearly explain where its going to or how it will be spent.

Not to say that I don't like God. I believe in the Lord and I think that the church is doing a ****ty job of spreading his word. Church today has so much fluff that hardly any of the time is spent talking about God and what he does and what he wants, not what the church wants (talking to a girl does not mean its adultery...I was told this in 7th grade) I went off topic here but yeah, I think that religion should not really play a significant role in a relationship.

 

[Umbra]

If a girl gets hung up on religion (mine or hers), I move on. It will turn into a serious issue as time passes. You don't want to be with someone who holds incompatible beliefs. Not only will it lead to financial and lifestyle differences (how much would it piss you off if she kept giving 10% of the income to a church, or she always refused to go out to a club or bar because it was a poor environment - or the other way around if you're the religions one, i.e. her always refusing to go to church with you and going to the bars too much to have fun), but it will also lead to more complicated problems if you ever have children or one of you feels "called" to do something extraordinary for your faith (like a mission trip).

 

[Mr. Fingers]

Amen to that!

As for trying to open someone's mind...that is verrrrry tricky. I didn't come out of my religious shell until a near-death experience forced me to see things differently. It is hard to undo years of conditioning man. I was wrapped up in the whole church thing for years. I remember sitting in the pews listening to the pastor say, and I quote, "Parents!! I cannot emphasize this point enough. You MUST brainwash your children if that's what it takes to make them accept Jesus!" Now, this is an extreme case of blatant honesty, but it's the basic message behind most religions. "There is no other way, stray from the path WE choose for you or face eternal damnation!" Fu©k, no wonder it's so hard to get out! This is actually a very personal point for me because my family is still very involved with the church and they still give me heat for being a "backslider". I just laugh. At the end of the day I think it's great that they have found their own peace with the mystery of the universe and wish they felt the same way towards me. But let's not get things twisted here... churches also do beautiful things, helping out the poor, providing free counseling to troubled souls...man, I have seen the most fu©ked up lives turned around by church.

But my biggest problem with religion is that too often it takes the concepts of love, compassion and acceptance and twists it into a scathing lecture of guilt, and a tool of isolation. It blows my mind that the same people who help beggars, crack addicts become upstanding citizens are the same ones to say "Everyone is going to fry for eternity...except us!"

I will never forget the day I dropped out..I had just been in a car accident and had a near-death experience where I actually died in a dream. Profound blackness, moving towards the light, the whole works.

I was talking to one of the pastors the following Sunday and asking some tough questions...

ME: So do all Buddhists and Hindus go straight to hell, no matter how good they were, or how much compassion they had for others?
HIM: Yes, Mr. Fingers, unless they find Jesus, they are doomed for eternity"
ME: Hmmm. okayyy. How about sex...Is all kind of sex out of marriage evil and wrong...including masturbation?
HIM: The Lord has infinite mercy, but not on those who live a life of carnal pleasure and sinful masturbation. You must repent of this crime for it is the equivalent of murder. There are no big sins or little sins, once God's Law is broken you must repent or pay the price.
ME: Alrighty then! Thanks for the info. I am getting the **** out of here now!

My advice on this situation:
If you are really feeling this girl then you should ask her these tough questions and see how she responds. But be prepared for her to get very defensive and the whole thing might blow up into a theological debate. Remember that people can take their faith more personally than their own genitals! If you are lucky, she might not be that much of a zealot and maybe is just going through the motions of religion for tradition's sake and appease family...perhaps she is susceptible to your influence. But you won't know until you push those buttons.

Overall, I would not hold my breath waiting for a religiously committed chick to expand her mind. I mean sure, you could plow into a 20-car pile-up in the hopes that a near-death experience will awaken her curiosity about the infinite mysteries we can never explain. But is it worth the trouble? All the time you spent on this chick could be spent on other, more compatible women.

You feel me?

Mr. Fingers out----->>>>>>

 

[Umbra]

Amen to that!

Mr. Fingers, you and I are in the same boat, my friend.

 

[Duke]

The Closer: I'm not an atheist. I don't deny the possibility of the existence of some kind of god. I'm an agnostic, which basically means I accept not knowing all the secrets to the universe.

There is the possibility that she has a relationship with God, but according to gospel, we are ALL God's children. She should accept my beliefs as I accept hers. This is plain discrimination-- only it isn't related to employment or civil rights or that whole dig, so nobody cares.

I could go through the motions (pray with her, go to Church,etc.-- and I know I can b/c I'm doing it now at the Catholic high school I go to) and convince her that my beliefs fit hers, and everything would be peachy keen. However, I refuse to live a lie, and I think that she should respect that.

Recall the conversation Mr. Fingers had with his pastor-- basically, his pastor told him that if Mother Theresa wasn't Christian, she'd go to hell. That's pretty F'd up if you ask me. Like Fingers, that is a core reason I dropped out of Christianity.

In conclusion: if the chick truly had a relationship with God, the continuity of that relationship wouldn't depend on me. If she was secure in her faith, she wouldn't have to worry about any X factors. I know that I can relate to her spiritually, so she needn't worry about us not connecting on that level.

es_mer8:
Hahaha, dude, I've got a case in point. Don't get the impression that I'm a porno-fiend, but I have my occasional excursions... Anyway, I saw a gallery not too long ago featuring a chick stripped naked... EXCEPT for the crucifix dangling between her boobs. Needless to say, I started to think about religion and my boner got annihilated.

You've got a really valid point. I've attended Catholic schools all my life, and I used to be one of the only kids that didn't go to Church every Sunday. Ironically, the slvts, the jocks, and the ever-belittling @$$holes were devout Christians.
And I'm not dissing God, either. I like to believe that one exists, but there is just no way we can possibly comprehend his/her/it's scope and pinpoint it's behavior. That's what most religions attempt to do, and it's just unproductive.

Umbra: It's my belief that behavior CAN ultimately outweigh preconceived notions that are driven into people's heads. Hopefully she will be able to see things from another vantage point and at least make some kind of compromise. I wouldn't mind if she went on a mission trip or anything! In fact, I'd go with her. It's just that while she might be going to "do God's will," I'd be going to help out some unfortunate people. The ends are much more important than the means.

If ,however, she refuses to even attempt to move out of her comfort zone, then I'll have to next her. Mr. Fingers's little questionairre should help in this regard.
It doesn't matter how cool she is if she demonstrates that she's self-centered and unwilling to compromise.

Originally posted by Mr. Fingers
Overall, I would not hold my breath waiting for a religiously committed chick to expand her mind. I mean sure, you could plow into a 20-car pile-up in the hopes that a near-death experience will awaken her curiosity about the infinite mysteries we can never explain. But is it worth the trouble? All the time you spent on this chick could be spent on other, more compatible women.
Mr. Fingers out----->>>>>>

LMAO!! That's some funny sh1t man, but I see what you're saying. It can be a better decision to stop trudging through all the theological BS and just get down to macking!
I'm going to ask her those questions sometime in the future and I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks to EVERYONE! You've all been extremely helpful, have pointed out some interesting things, and have posed some provocative questions.

 

[route66]

Oh my God! (not blaspheming, I swear)

Guys...these replies are pretty intelligent.

I'm going to reread some of them and post a reply-the quality of the replies demands a rereading....

...but I'll tell you. Never been the big bad atheist who insults beliefs. I think it's cool to have your own convictions even if I don't share them. Just don't push 'em on me.

Some religious chicks DO make excellent LTR material.

And then there's the ones that browbeat you and I can count scores more people who are moral yet don't believe in a deity.

I used to be devout. I changed.

I think maybe I'll go undercover as devout some days to meet god chicks...then I can reveal myself once they fall for me. Other days I laugh and ask myself why bother hiding my boredom or disbelief in sermons and prayers? Why hide me???

I mean all I want is tail and possibly someone I can like on a whole another level.


Thanks for the smart posts.
rte66

 

[SLIKKER_THAN_AVG]

If ,however, she refuses to even attempt to move out of her comfort zone, then I'll have to next her.

I agree with this too.

Religion is a very big subject..especially in LTR's.

I would say more except that everything i want to say is posted lol.

The Bottom line is..an LTR is very weak if there is conflict in beliefs/religions

 

[Premier]

Way back in my AFC days (although I will admit I'm not completely a DJ yet) I actually went with my girlfriend at the time to her church a few times. I am not a religious man in any way. And those hours spent there were some of the most excruciating of my life. This place was much more like a cult like than a church.
I have no problems against religion, it's just not for me. My advice is to find a woman who believes the same or has similar beliefs, or is willing to put up with your beliefs without problems (and vice versa).

In an LTR, religion can become a major obstacle.

 

[Trickster_guy_2001]

Originally posted by Duke
I've got the same problem. I know an awesome chick, but she's Christian and I'm agnostic. I'm really frustrated because I believe that religion shouldn't be so significant; it shouldn't have the power to dictate human relationships the way it does. Core beliefs and behavior are much more important.

Hopefully I will be able to convey that to her, but it's just like this is a road block. An unnecessasary one at that.

Thank god you're an agnostic. heh heh heh.

You may feel it's unnecessary road block, but she may feel different. Point is, find someone who fits your views.

 

[Kwah]

Heh, there are about 4 churches in my home town I've been banned from, and 1 bible camp that I went to cause my friends lied to me about what it was. I showed up at 1 in the morning with a cube of Canadian ready to get the party started and they looked at me like I was posessed.

I wont even make an effort with a religious chick, they scare me.

 

[es_mer8]

You've got a really valid point. I've attended Catholic schools all my life, and I used to be one of the only kids that didn't go to Church every Sunday. Ironically, the slvts, the jocks, and the ever-belittling @$$holes were devout Christians.
And I'm not dissing God, either. I like to believe that one exists, but there is just no way we can possibly comprehend his/her/it's scope and pinpoint it's behavior. That's what most religions attempt to do, and it's just unproductive.

Back as a little kid, it was like we went to church without question. It was around 5th - 8th grade where I was very religious. I started to really low self esteem and I thought God could help me out. So I participated in youth groups sometimes whenever I could and the $20 donation I mentioned earlier. I thought that church would give me confidence. I thought I'd meet some cool people there but most of them were basket cases that were 10x worse than me. Then one time I decided not to go. Which was fine because my mom started to lose interest in it as well. So we just stopped going. Its not even worthwhile anymore.

I can't really believe the Bible or anything like that either since a lot of it is obvious exaggeration. Nobody lived for over 150 years. There are so many contradictions in there its ridiculous. However I still believe in God and I know he is the supreme being. I just think that there is too much BS in the church for me to go.

 

[route66]

Long time ago...

I dated other religious chick. I misplaced my backbone in those days. So when she said let's go to church, I went.

But all i did was look at girls in sunday clothes and fantasize of doing them. (I hid my desires, laid hymn book on lap).

When services ended my gf was mad i looked so distracted. (i didn't even sing the hymns 'cause last time I did she got mad 'cause i sang la-la-la instead of the words).

It lasted this way awhile. Those were the STaci (not real name) Days. Also known as The Dark Ages I Never Want to Relive.

Luckily we broke up.

Some girls will allow another religion if you date 'em, but some chicks cannot conceive someone would live their lives WITHOUT ANY RELIGION. That's me.


route66 says JUST say No! to being woken up Sundays for anything but sex!!!!

 

[Pepe Le Pew]

If you really want to understand........
When you date a "religious" girl, I'm assuming you mean Christian.......she has a relationship with God(Jesus) she loves God very much, and when she does things that are not according to His Spirit........it grieves her........
If she dates a man that is not 'religious' she has other great eternal hopes and dreams......while some doods dream might be to get married, settle down, go to some cruise, and retire w/ 401k plan.......she dreams and hopes of serving the Lord, going on missions, being a A+++ wife, basically standing up for everything about Him......!
So it is not possible to grasp a true woman of faith away from her true happines......
there is a scripture that says
"Seek the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart"
get it the Lord is truly what the heart desires.........
Anyways before I start rambling........that is why "Christian" women can't ever be happy w/ an unChristian man.
I know all this because I am a Christian man, and understand the same when it comes to women.......
I'm not talking Islamic, Buddhist, Catholic, Crowleian, Hindu, Satanic, Hermeutic, Wiccan, Orthodox, Scientologist, Metaphysical, New Age, Tantric, Ideologicaltheocreative EvolutionDarwinisticAstrolgicalism..................just Christian.

I believe in God, and stand up for Him!
Thanks Lord!