REAL tough one, expert DJ opinions needed

[Rollo Tomassi]

OK, time to re-evaluate now. Just as a side note, I'm of the opinion that guy's seeking counsel about specific women and situations on the MM forum need to be as thourough as possible in running down background, conditions and events leading up to what it is they're trying to solve. However, this is a process, and a lot of DJs in training so quick to offer up advice on such limited details need to learn from their own default impulse responses.

So, upon reassessing the new info DASH has just provided, it's once again time for DJ Math. We have a 31 y.o. woman married for 4-6 years, so we'll take the mean average and say 5 years. We've also got to assume that the previous husband and she were monogamous for about 2 years before getting married. This puts our subject (conservatively) at 7 years with the same guy. That makes her 23 or 24 when they got together. Roughly that puts her "adult" dating experience between the ages of 18 and 23. Assuming she didn't cheat on the guy this means she had a grand total of 5 years to really 'date' and learn how to intersexually socialize.

My impression now is that this woman is falling back on the only thing she knew 7+ years ago - adolescent social skills. Between the ages of 18 and about 25 men and women (should) learn to socialize in different contexts than what was established in their adolescence. The healthy progression of this results in a mature interelation between the sexes as both come to terms with adult life. However, when a pre-adult (18 to 25 or so) becomes monogamous in the long term (whether by marriage, pregnancy or a very involved LTR) at too early an age this has the effect of retarding this maturation. What I'm understanding from the behavior DASH has related about this girl is that this is what's at play. She hasn't developed the social intelligence to understand her conditions, so she defaults to what she knew before - and this is her adolescent mindset about sex. She simply hasn't had the benefit of maturely dating non-exclusively during her 20s to understand what her conditions are with DASH.

Now there's another factor here; if she's only been single for 5 months after having been locked into monogamy for the last 7 years she's naturally going to have some hesitation about getting saddled into another LTR so soon after, what to her in hindsight must seem like a new lease on life. As I said before DASH, it's not you opening up or her "protecting her heart" - it's her protecting her options, options she hasn't realized in 7 years.

Now on to you DASH. You were 9 months into an LTR and then no dating whatsoever for another 4 afterwards, putting you at a year and a month out of the game. That's a long time, and makes me believe you're on the psychological fast-track to getting married at 42. Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to establish an LTR at your age, but I'd advise you to start developing a rotation to give you a better selection to choose from. I'm wary that the first woman you got physical with coming out of a 13 month absence "happens" to be LTR material. I'm sure you felt your, now, ex was LTR material too when you became involved with her. I should also like to bring to attention that you've known this woman for a year already, meaning you were establishing rapport while you were involved with the ex. Again, this points to a fixation on her. I wonder how influential this woman's divorce was on your own LTR at the time.

My advice remains the same though; you need to initiate an incremental takeaway, if not NEXT her altogether. I know I'll catch a rash of sh!t for this, but if you had other viable options you'd have never started this thread. She's holding out on you because she hasn't decided what to do with herself after 7 years. She's protecting her options and giving you just enough "free samples" (that was brilliant JOPHIL) to keep you from writing her off immediately.

So take this to the logical conclusion now. Lets say you do back off and "open up", what if she still wont fukk you? Then what? Is the potential of her vagina worth your having aquiesced to her inconsistencies. STR8UP hit it right, she's sucking you off now, what does her having intercourse with you signify to her that a hummer doesn't? Sex is a physical act, but she's holding a part of herself back from you. Even if you did have sex with her this weekend and it went exactly the way you wanted it to in an LTR, she has still held something back from you. All you're doing now is negotiating for something she doesn't want to release. Personally I feel this is her new found options coming out of marriage, but regardless, don't think you're playing a game of psychological chicken with her.

 

[Interceptor]

This is great, RT.


RT wrote:

My impression now is that this woman is falling back on the only thing she knew 7+ years ago - adolescent social skills. Between the ages of 18 and about 25 men and women (should) learn to socialize in different contexts than what was established in their adolescence. The healthy progression of this results in a mature interelation between the sexes as both come to terms with adult life. However, when a pre-adult (18 to 25 or so) becomes monogamous in the long term (whether by marriage, pregnancy or a very involved LTR) at too early an age this has the effect of retarding this maturation. What I'm understanding from the behavior DASH has related about this girl is that this is what's at play. She hasn't developed the social intelligence to understand her conditions, so she defaults to what she knew before - and this is her adolescent mindset about sex. She simply hasn't had the benefit of maturely dating non-exclusively during her 20s to understand what her conditions are with DASH.




Believe it or not, Deangelo talks a little about a social retardation, or "boy psychology" being the norm out there.
Many males still react and view the world from an extended adolescent phase.
Interesting enough, even though we give women a lot of credit, a lot of them are still backwards, hence Dash's dillema.
These women, although not b*tches, do have their old tool box of "dating tricks" and they haven't learned anything new. Not to mention, that for some stupid reason they still feel a need to keep employing them.

And I still say that Dash should employ a One-Two Approach of some increased openess as a hook, and the defintiely, absolutely imperatively a subtle, gradual TAKEAWAY.
It is really, I mean really important that every MM here make sure he doesn't regress, and fall into a woman's tactios or ploy for the Golden Pvssy.
At this stage of the game, head games, AW behavior, and push/pull from a woman is not acceptable, and let's not even mention disrespect.
It's non negotiable.

NONE of us, have the Time nor Patience to have to deal with this.
At this age and stage, ALL of us should be more concerened with our healt, wealth, and happiness...and peace of mind.
Let's keep reminding ourselves.

Dash, you seem to have a firmer grasp on the DJ tech than a lot of guys I know, in that you have a bit stronger discipline in applying the DJ concepts over the long term.
Stick to it. And implement the advice given.
I bet you WILL get what you wanted from this woman. And if you are genuinely, and healthily into her, she will get someone good too.

Keep up the good work, and keep us posted, my friend.

 

[Dash Riprock]

And I still say that Dash should employ a One-Two Approach of some increased openness as a hook, and the definitely, absolutely imperatively a subtle, gradual TAKEAWAY.

Yeah, good call. After further review, I agree. There's a good article in the DJ archives about disclosure--if you want to advance things (sex?) you need to disclose at an equal rate. She’s disclosed some things about herself and I've definitely been playing the aloof card big time (no regrets, better to err on this side) so perhaps it's time to throw her a morsel or two of info and see what happens. Then, slowly back off a bit.

Dash, you seem to have a firmer grasp than a lot of guys I know, in that you have a but stronger discipline in applying the DJ concepts.
Stick to it. And implement the advice given.
I bet you WILL get what you wanted from this woman. And if you are genuinely, and healthily into her, she will get someone good too.

Thanks, homes. We're all in this together.

 

[STR8UP]

Great post, RT.

I was thinking along similar lines. She seems to be playing the same game that much younger women play.

"No....we can't do this.....[slurp slurp].....it's wrong.....[slurp, slurp]......OH GOD!.....I think I'm gonna come!....yea right there....a little to the left....ahhhhhh!!"

Then she's telling her friends she didn't have sex with you since she gave you head and only let your d!ck touch the OUTER labia. And you licking her pu$$y doesn't count either.

If she doesn't put out soon i would be seeking a more sexually mature woman. And if she DOES put out, I would crop her ass the first time she uses sex to get anything from you.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yeah, good call. After further review, I agree. There's a good article in the DJ archives about disclosure--if you want to advance things (sex?) you need to disclose at an equal rate. She’s disclosed some things about herself and I've definitely been playing the aloof card big time (no regrets, better to err on this side) so perhaps it's time to throw her a morsel or two of info and see what happens. Then, slowly back off a bit.

Out of curiosity, how many guys out there play this type of game in committed relationships? Actually, do you guys normally play these power trip like games in relationships? I know that complacency kills relationships but shouldn't there be some level of comfort?

 

[grinder]

Out of curiosity, how many guys out there play this type of game in committed relationships? Actually, do you guys normally play these power trip like games in relationships? I know that complacency kills relationships but shouldn't there be some level of comfort?

An authentic, legitimate game is not played: It is lived, it is natural and it is what you are at your core. You don't have to TRY to do anything, you just do it. All else is a contrivance and disingenuous. Plus, my attention span is to short to remember all that sh*t.

I think people miss the forest (enjoying life as a fully cognizant man) for the trees (all the little dj steps and recommendations that are MEANT to help guide you to that fully realized natural awareness) when they focus too intently on the minutia of Djism.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

An authentic, legitimate game is not played: It is lived, it is natural and it is what you are at your core. You don't have to TRY to do anything, you just do it. All else is a contrivance and disingenuous. Plus, my attention span is to short to remember all that sh*t.

I hear 'ya, but isn't that type of game played by a couple who's on the same team (no, not that way ). Where there's camaraderie, common goals; one feeds the other for the assist and a goal is made; the team wins.

I think people miss the forest (enjoying life as a fully cognizant man) for the trees (all the little dj steps and recommendations that are MEANT to help guide you to that fully realized natural awareness) when they focus too intently on the minutia of Djism.

It's like Sampson and Delilah. Heaven forbid she finds out about his Achilles heel. But is that the real issue? Perhaps revealing fatal flaws is what men believe as being emotionally intimate; that revealing raw nerves is what women are longing for from a man.

 

[CF9]

I hear 'ya, but isn't that type of game played by a couple who's on the same team (no, not that way ). Where there's camaraderie, common goals; one feeds the other for the assist and a goal is made; the team wins.

That would be the IDEAL situation, but my guess is that very few supposedly committed couples have that ideal situation. I suppose that's why the divorce rate is so high. A personal anecdote: I have been in 13 weddings, and out of those, only 2 couples are still married. The commonality amongst all the failed ones? That's right, no commonality of goals, or worse yet, no goals period.....

 

[Dash Riprock]

An authentic, legitimate game is not played: It is lived, it is natural and it is what you are at your core. You don't have to TRY to do anything, you just do it. All else is a contrivance and disingenuous. Plus, my attention span is to short to remember all that sh*t.

Grinder may have a unique relationship, but with 60%+ of all marriages ending in divorce (women file > 60% of the time) and 90% of most relationships not even getting past 60 days, there are some *simple* rules that should be followed.

WOMEN HATE BOREDOM--I think all would agree. I'm not choosing sides, but I think men in society today need to quit getting so complacent when they get married, take care of themselves (60% of US is F-ing obese) and step up and improve their DJ skills one way or another. At 41, yes, I've seen a few friends’ marriages end in shambles; the main reasons I have seen first hand:
1- They weren’t compatible to begin with
2- One or both people were actually "desperate" to some degree
3- Got married too young--the relationship evolved/changed into incompatibly

One needs to employ DJ skills in LTRs, marriage, and life (try it in business some time, variations work well) for maximum success. I agree with Grinder in that there are VOLUMES of info on this site about different tactics, strategies etc., but then again, go look at the "Selling" section in any bookstore. Practice the basics and what works for you. For me, the basics are always confidence, self control, challenge. These 3 simple words when practiced will put any guy ahead of well, 90% of the crowd.

In the end, being a DJ is about confidence, belief, self control, self respect, and not being a pushover (i.e., CHALLENGE). It's about leveling the playing field and learning what attracts, motivates and keeps women interested so YOU can make the decision if she is right for you, not get dumped like most guys, and hang on to the b**ch. AND like any other smart person, seek counsel from the ones who have been there, done it, and had SUCCESS.

I enjoy reading Doc Love's material. Interesting he writes (paraphrase):

3% of men are natural DJs
7% have learned decent DJ skills (10% total)
90% HAVE NO CLUE/are AFCs

In business, I've observed:
-10% of adults really focus on themselves and try to develop themselves further; professionally and personally (the "DJ" mindset).
-90% hate their life and or job and can't wait until 5:00 so they can go home and watch Seinfeld and eat Pringles on the couch

Unfortunately NO ONE is born a DJ so WE ALL need continual education and guidance--SoSuave is a pretty decent resource for ALL THINGS DJ not just the latest PUA techniques.

Amen.

 

[grinder]

Grinder may have a unique relationship, but with 60%+ of all marriages ending in divorce (women file > 60% of the time) and 90% of most relationships not even getting past 60 days, there are some *simple* rules that should be followed.

WOMEN HATE BOREDOM--I think all would agree. I'm not choosing sides, but I think men in society today need to quit getting so complacent when they get married, take care of themselves (60% of US is F-ing obese) and step up and improve their DJ skills one way or another. At 41, yes, I've seen a few friends’ marriages end in shambles; the main reasons I have seen first hand:
1- They weren’t compatible to begin with
2- One or both people were actually "desperate" to some degree
3- Got married too young--the relationship evolved/changed into incompatibly

One needs to employ DJ skills in LTRs, marriage, and life (try it in business some time, variations work well) for maximum success. I agree with Grinder in that there are VOLUMES of info on this site about different tactics, strategies etc., but then again, go look at the "Selling" section in any bookstore. Practice the basics and what works for you. For me, the basics are always confidence, self control, challenge. These 3 simple words when practiced will put any guy ahead of well, 90% of the crowd.

In the end, being a DJ is about confidence, belief, self control, self respect, and not being a pushover (i.e., CHALLENGE). It's about leveling the playing field and learning what attracts, motivates and keeps women interested so YOU can make the decision if she is right for you, not get dumped like most guys, and hang on to the b**ch. AND like any other smart person, seek counsel from the ones who have been there, done it, and had SUCCESS.

I enjoy reading Doc Love's material. Interesting he writes (paraphrase):

3% of men are natural DJs
7% have learned decent DJ skills (10% total)
90% HAVE NO CLUE/are AFCs

In business, I've observed:
-10% of adults really focus on themselves and try to develop themselves further; professionally and personally (the "DJ" mindset).
-90% hate their life and or job and can't wait until 5:00 so they can go home and watch Seinfeld and eat Pringles on the couch

Unfortunately NO ONE is born a DJ so WE ALL need continual education and guidance--SoSuave is a pretty decent resource for ALL THINGS DJ not just the latest PUA techniques.

Amen.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I apply generous helpings of DJ knowledge in my relationships. What I have been working towards is internalizing this knowledge and making it a part of my personality. I've said this before, but any man that can internalize just 2% of what's on this site is in the top 1% of men who are good with women.
I find I have to come back here and reference the material and keep it fresh in my mind because there is a lot here and I need to keep from backsliding into AFC thinking.
I then take it out into the field, in real life, and practice it until it becomes natural. I'm not the best to give advice on long term committed relationships because I have met no woman worth this in the last year and a half.

 

[grinder]

I hear 'ya, but isn't that type of game played by a couple who's on the same team (no, not that way ). Where there's camaraderie, common goals; one feeds the other for the assist and a goal is made; the team wins.

It's like Sampson and Delilah. Heaven forbid she finds out about his Achilles heel. But is that the real issue? Perhaps revealing fatal flaws is what men believe as being emotionally intimate; that revealing raw nerves is what women are longing for from a man.

I've had two failed marriages and when we focused on the kids and the house, yes, we were on the same team. Other than these specific goals we were not on the same team. Never.

You mean DJ's have flaws? The whole disclosure issue is somewhat clouded. You never have to tell anybody a damn thing if you don't want to. I think the media (Okraaa) has infected this issue as her view of disclosure is emotionally vomiting up every childhood trauma to your betrothed. Finally, science is proving this does not do a damn thing for either of you and we know damn well it just kills the attraction in the relationship.

 

[Bonhomme]

From your last post, Dash, it looks to me like her "lizard brain" is 110% into you, but her analytical side (the part of the brain that rejects guys online for mixing up "your" and "you're" or being 1 year off their age range) has doubts: mainly not sure you're committed to her or take the relationship seriously enough, smart money says.

For all we know, she could be posting on Oprah-type chick forums getting all sort of advice that "this guy can't commit," "he's probably seeing 3 other women," blah, blah, blah...

What do your instincts tell you?

From what I'm reading, mine tell me your overgaming this one. Been there, done that. Too many times.

***********

Don't take this as advice to go all "textbook AFC." In fact, I don't think you could do that unless you were acting. What I'm writing about is just letting your natural "game" (if you even want to call it that) take over, without trying too hard to be "DJ".

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Out of curiosity, how many guys out there play this type of game in committed relationships? Actually, do you guys normally play these power trip like games in relationships? I know that complacency kills relationships but shouldn't there be some level of comfort?

I understand what you're saying, but how much of what you think is a 'power game' should be basic pragmatism for a man? I think a primary failing that AFCs internalize and have been conditioned from childhood to believe for the past 40 years is that they need to be "more in tune with their feelings", "more in touch with their feminine side" and "more sensitive to her needs." All this has resulted in is confusion and frustration on an AFC's part because he does what he's been taught to believe is expected of him to get what he's really after - sex and intimacy - only to find that the more he identifies with the feminine the more she rejects him in favor of more masculine men who are polar opposites not only of what she says she wants, but what he's spent a better part of his life time to evolve his personality into. SoSuave is a direct result of this dynamic. The SS community exists because enough AFCs are finding that despite their best efforts over the course of their lives, the equation that states 'men ought to be more like, identify with, and model their personalities on, what women's emotionality dictates' simply doesn't add up to what their behaviors bear out.

I'm not saying a certain amount of "opening up" to a woman isn't necessary for a good communicative relationship, but I think that given the history I've described for the past 40 years, men's first impulse now is to over-emotionalize themselves to women on a moments notice in an effort to secure her intimacy. The reason women respond so well to guys who are "emotionally unavailable" is because they're so rare now. Women want to figure guys out. They want to read his book chapter by chapter, not read the synopsis on the back cover or have the cliff notes of it crammed down her throat on the first date. Unfortunately this is the default for most guys today.

Information, emotional availability, personal history, and all of the things that women seem to prize in their emotional, communicative psyches needs to be meted out by men as a reward for a woman when she displays the behaviors that men value (i.e. usually sex and intimacy). Just like being sparing with gifts, a man should only disclose himself occasionally as a reinforcer and just enough to keep her even more intrigued than she was before. My wife of course knows every intimate detail about me, but if my wife is exceptional in bed on a particular night I occasionally buy her flowers the next day, this is a covert reward. I do not, however, buy her flowers as a gesture to get her to be exceptional in bed, this is would be a bribe.

BTW, I'm thankful you weren't on that bridge when it collapsed FRANCISCO.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

That would be the IDEAL situation, but my guess is that very few supposedly committed couples have that ideal situation.

You make it sound as its a situation of happenstance, that's it's just dumb luck. It's like if they wake up one morning and out of the blue they have a baby; "How in the heck did that happen???!!!"

I suppose that's why the divorce rate is so high. A personal anecdote: I have been in 13 weddings, and out of those, only 2 couples are still married. The commonality amongst all the failed ones? That's right, no commonality of goals, or worse yet, no goals period.....

I've always said that people put more effort in planning a wedding than planning the marriage. People put more effort and research into buying a new car than finding an appropriate mate and creating a viable, sustainable relationship.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I've had two failed marriages and when we focused on the kids and the house, yes, we were on the same team. Other than these specific goals we were not on the same team. Never.

Isn't it sad when you're on the same team for all of the things except the relationship itself...

You mean DJ's have flaws? The whole disclosure issue is somewhat clouded. You never have to tell anybody a damn thing if you don't want to. I think the media (Okraaa) has infected this issue as her view of disclosure is emotionally vomiting up every childhood trauma to your betrothed. Finally, science is proving this does not do a damn thing for either of you and we know damn well it just kills the attraction in the relationship.

That's what I'm saying, many guys feel that whatever they disclose would be a flaw. It makes me wonder what kind of life they had lived to feel that any personal information would be a slight to their character and would subsequently be held against them. Strange....

 

[Vulpine]

Please allow me to relate my personal experience.

Out of curiosity, how many guys out there play this type of game in committed relationships? Actually, do you guys normally play these power trip like games in relationships? I know that complacency kills relationships but shouldn't there be some level of comfort?

About that article, I had to take a moment to reflect. I had read it quite a while ago, and it's refreshing to revisit some of those articles to see how you are measuring up DJ-wise presently.

I wanted to say...

An authentic, legitimate game is not played: It is lived, it is natural and it is what you are at your core. You don't have to TRY to do anything, you just do it. All else is a contrivance and disingenuous. Plus, my attention span is to short to remember all that sh*t.

I think people miss the forest (enjoying life as a fully cognizant man) for the trees (all the little dj steps and recommendations that are MEANT to help guide you to that fully realized natural awareness) when they focus too intently on the minutia of Djism.

...but grinder beat me to it.

I'd like to add, though, that this "limiting or dosing personal information" "game" should indeed be unforced. I've found that, at least for myself, this happened somewhat "accidentally". And, I believe I have narrowed it down the distinct cause of how it does actually happen naturally.

They want to read his book chapter by chapter, not read the synopsis on the back cover or have the cliff notes of it crammed down her throat on the first date. Unfortunately this is the default for most guys today.

See, I was exactly like this: "There's something you should know. Here's my life story - do you like me in spite of it?"

Just like the article claims, I had very bad luck with dates. Day's 2 and 3 would rarely come. I was confused and frustrated. Now, after reading the article, and after reading a few other articles and threads, I came to an overall conclusion:

"Shut up! You are fine, and your past is fine, so quit trying to qualify yourself!"

Do you see what that conclusion is getting to or based on?

Confidence.

Through natural DJ evolution, one can't help but to be more confident: sure of themselves as a man, what they want, and where they've been. Once you have this confidence, it only follows that you don't just run up to a stranger and start spewing your life story: it's none of a stranger's business!

So naturally, as your comfort level increases with a woman, you offer up more information. Like mirroring, you trust the other person enough to share little bits of your past.

So, in regards to Dash, he might be too strict with the "aloofness". He may be forcing the "Shut up! You are fine, and your past is fine, so quit trying to qualify yourself!"

If you take that literally, it means shut up, period. Initially, I thought the same: shut up! So, I did. But, later I was confident enough in the womans' interest levels and in myself that I started offering little tidbits of my "human" past and idiosyncracies.

I was at a point where I could say "hey, here's a boogeyman of mine" and be completely confident that I was golden regardless of the woman. I could also admit much more, but just not all at once. I would mix sweet and sour, mainly because I didn't personally care to dwell on negativity. I figure a "DJ" really shouldn't be focused on the past anyway, they should be looking toward the future or at the present. "Nevermind where I've been, where am I going?"

SOoooººº, the "opening up" and sharing personal information was a natural by-product of a healthy self-esteem and confidence. And, what grinder says rings true: you don't have to focus on it or dwell on it as a "tactic".

When your inner game (attitude, self-esteem, goals and motivation, confidence, priorities, etc.) is tight, a lot, and I mean a lot, of DJ "tactics" are second nature quite by accident. The little DJ tips, tricks, and hints should drop into place around your persona, not form your persona.

Or, at least that's been my experience.

I think people miss the forest through the trees when they focus too intently on the minutia of Djism.

Indeed. My attention is on the woman, not on the "playbook" or myself. A good receiver is constantly looking upfield and deviates from the route as necessary once he has the ball. If he doesn't, he'll be forced out-of-bounds or tackled - not score. It's the difference between knowing the game, and playing it. It's the difference between watching yourself get tackled and watching the goal.

 

[CF9]

You make it sound as its a situation of happenstance, that's it's just dumb luck. It's like if they wake up one morning and out of the blue they have a baby; "How in the heck did that happen???!!!"

I've always said that people put more effort in planning a wedding than planning the marriage. People put more effort and research into buying a new car than finding an appropriate mate and creating a viable, sustainable relationship.

Nope, I wasn't trying to imply it's purely by accident. In fact, my belief is that "successful" marriages are upfront; discussions are had, each partner qualifies each other. It is in the "bad' marriages where no determination of commonality is made--that's why they end up becoming bad marriages!!

Too dam many people get married w/out a clue. All I was suggesting is that what you put into something is what you get...usually. Sure, some couples will simply "luck out" & stumble into something real. Personally, I wouldn't rely on luck. Others, on the other hand, seem to be just fine w/ rolling the dice...

 

[Dash Riprock]

I think the media (Okraaa) has infected this issue as her view of disclosure is emotionally vomiting up every childhood trauma to your betrothed. Finally, science is proving this does not do a damn thing for either of you and we know damn well it just kills the attraction in the relationship.

This is what my instinct is telling me: I have a feeling her ex did this and so have other guys she's dated. I come along, aloof, not disclosing much but, using lots of humor, c&f, and planning major action dates and she's like, W-T-F?! Who the HELL is this guy??

I think solid DJ skills over time do become natural but as in anything else, need a brush up once in a while. I mean look at any MLB player--some great hitters go into slumps (A-Rod, B.Bonds) but then work their out by making adjustments. Same with a good DJ; refresh, make adjustments, advance.

The Girl commented to me the other night, "Sometimes, I feel we're getting real close, then BAM you shut down again." I'm thinking, yeah, better than spilling my guts like most guys do...keep guessing girlie-girl...

I think it's always better to err on the mysterious side of things rather than telling too much – I, nor can I remember any guy, ever getting dumped because he was too mysterious early on. Keep in mind I treat this girl WELL when we are together; lot's of FUN, affection w/o overdoing, ask her plenty of ?'s about her life, her events, thoughts, etc. I bust on her a lot too playfully—I KNOW no guy has had the balls to do this because she’s hot, but she takes it well and fires back pretty good too.

I *think* when women say they don't "connect" with a guy it's usually a combination of:
1-the guy dumped his guts, so there's nothing for her to "figure out" (just look at the books they read; romance novels--does Prince Charming spill out his guts to her--NO! He's off slaying dragons, defending her honor, then he comes back, doesn't say a word and F's her, THE END)
2-lack of masculinity (he's soooo nice, but could he "protect" me & would I want him as the head of my household, father of my kids??, he can’t even hit a 80 mph fastball in a batting cage or bench his weight, wussy!!)
3-lack of sex appeal (#1 + #2 = #3)

I find I have to come back here and reference the material and keep it fresh in my mind because there is a lot here and I need to keep from backsliding into AFC thinking.

ALL smart DJ's do this--great job.

The reason women respond so well to guys who are "emotionally unavailable" is because they're so rare now. Women want to figure guys out. They want to read his book chapter by chapter, not read the synopsis on the back cover or have the cliff notes of it crammed down her throat on the first date. Unfortunately this is the default for most guys today.

Well put--it's REALLY hard not to take this bait sometimes. After a “session” Hot Chick looks at me with those BIG brown eyes, she’s laying there in the raw, and I know what she wants--more of "my story." I also know where that'll get me, a one-way ticket to AFCville. No thanks, I moved away a LONG time ago.

Doc Love PREACHES that within the first 60 days, make her DREDGE the info out of you--I tend to agree with this. Once again, has anyone here ever heard of a guy getting dumped for being too intriguing, complex, challenging, or mysterious—at least for the first few months? In time, throw her a morsel, otherwise SHUT THE F UP.

 

[Vulpine]

Doc Love PREACHES that within the first 60 days, make her DREDGE the info out of you--I tend to agree with this. Once again, has anyone here ever heard of a guy getting dumped for being too intriguing, complex, challenging, or mysterious—at least for the first few months? In time, throw her a morsel, otherwise SHUT THE F UP.

No, I haven't heard of a guy getting dumped for that. But I have heard of a chick not upping the pooter for it.


Wow. You are one serious DJ machine: it's been 6 weeks, that's 42 days (44 now since the original post). You are definitely "by the books" if you can recite some "60 day" rule like that.

Be a man, not a robot.

Relationships aren't boxing matches where you defend yourself, throw a jab, watch for a reaction, throw another jab, watch for a weak spot, toss in an uppercut, bob, weave, block, jab, step, jab, hook, block, bob, weave, duck, step, cross, hook, defend... Too intense! Someone's going to get hurt! Or tired!

(I can't help but to imagine Rock'em, Sock'em Robots! )

Instead, relationships are like dancing: sometimes you push, sometimes you pull, sometimes you step on her toes when she resists your pushing and pulling or gets out of step. Easy. Effortless. If you know the steps, all that's left is to listen to the music and feel her next to you.

Dude, you know the steps.

Women can sense when you are faking or forcing things and will reflect that in their actions. I can't fault her for intentionally holding back if you are. You seem overly obsessed with "not spilling your guts".

But, I wasn't there, and I don't know you, so I'm only making assumptions here.

 

[Dash Riprock]

Doc Love PREACHES that within the first 60 days, make her DREDGE the info out of you--I tend to agree with this.

I'm not by the books, it's just a general rule of thumb. You have to learn DJ skills somewhere, right? Just citing my sources. It's not forced either as with practice it does flow. There’s no way any chick would hang with a dude if he seemed “forced”, yet alone for 6 weeks. You need your body language to match your words and actions; I’ve worked hard at it and have it down well as results show. Vulpine, maybe you’re a 3% natural—I’m not. Tony Robbins sucked as speaker at first, but look at him now. A guy like MLK was a *rare* natural speaker.

After 4-5 years of practice it's actually quite natural; fun, playful banter, affection, keep your yap shut, ask her ?'s, a couple days silence, keep advancing...

Just getting a different reaction from this one--who isn't such a loser after a few dates. She’s not giving up the pu$$y as easy as most—in many ways I actually like and respect her for it. I think there are alot of DJs who think if a chick give it up in 1-2 dates he's the ONLY one she'd do that with, LOL, right...

Most guys hang with loser chicks even if they're hot. I don't.