REAL tough one, expert DJ opinions needed

[grinder]

First, cut out analyzing her, paraphrasing what she means and trying to figure out how she feels. Are you trying to give yourself an aneurism? Geez, you are not going to figure her out with thinking.

Only action, only what she does can tell you.

First, real basic: does she orgasm when you eat her?
Can you finger her, get her off that way? Dildo? Anything?
Can she masturbate herself to orgasm?
Can she orgasm at all?

Can you get her soaking wet before you even get near the bedroom? Not everybody is an expert in this, so, perhaps, if this is a prob, check out the sex section of the dj bible.
How about some games, tickling, massage, wrestling, a shower, naked pillow fight, a little bondage? Be creative. A sense of play is a great segway into all kinds of things.

Feeling bad for Dj’ing her?
Don’t feel bad for being the best thing she’s had, for being mysterious, unique, and having her want you.

When she starts pouring her guts out, sure you can listen, but, basically, you can’t do sh*t for her: except, being a dj, you can go do something fun and you can both feel better.

 

[STR8UP]

But she's looking for a sure thing. Security. Trust. Comfort. Rapport.
She's not out just looking to get laid.

His face was in her snatch and her mouth was on his c0ck. They HAD SEX, they just didn't have intercourse. If your mouths are on each others genitals, security, comfort, and trust are NOT issues.

Fact of the matter is, she is either playing the ASD angle to the extreme, or she is using sex as a tool to get what she wants.

A chick doesn't NEED to have sex to feel validated and satisfied. She only needs to know that you WANT to fukk her. Intimacy surrogate, anyone? For a man to feel fulfilled most of the time he wants to get his d!ck wet. Other wise it doesn't really "count". It's a male thing.....

Jophil got it right on...the BJ's are free samples. Priceless!

 

[WaterTiger]

I think Joe has given you the best option. :cheer:

Next time you are fooling around and you pull out a condom and she pulls the 'I dont know you well enough'. stop everything right there, get dressed, and then tell her 'I think we need to take a break. It's obvious you don't trust me and don't want to move this relationship to the next level. I need some time to think about all this." - basically that will send her in to panic. she will probably even start to cry and come up with all kinds of 'save a hoe' baits to get you to revert back in to captain save a hoe.

At age 31, she's a little old to be playing that teen-age game of "Everything BUT that". She's has you hanging for six weeks? I know within an hour if I will EVER bang a guy. I might give him a second date just to be sure, but I'd NEVER string him along for 6 weeks!

 

[edger]

I disagree that a woman will "hold out" on sex because she's looking to see if you will bail on her or not, if she has sex with you.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I knew her for about a year before we started dating; I was in an LTR, then took about 4 mos off of ALL dating, and felt the time was right a few weeks back and asked her out. Comparing her to what I've been dating the past few years, she simply has more of what I look for.

This was what I needed to know. How long was your LTR prior to all of this? If you had a sufficiently long LTR, then went cold turkey for 4 months and are now wrapped up in this woman - after having known her for a year, not just 6 weeks - then you fit the profile of a Serial Monogamist. I'm inclined to agree with WATERTIGER, at 31 she should be beyond the high school reasonings. What's her story? Give us a run down on her background.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

This was what I needed to know. How long was your LTR prior to all of this? If you had a sufficiently long LTR, then went cold turkey for 4 months and are now wrapped up in this woman - after having known her for a year, not just 6 weeks - then you fit the profile of a Serial Monogamist. I'm inclined to agree with WATERTIGER, at 31 she should be beyond the high school reasonings. What's her story? Give us a run down on her background.

I still say she's considering a commitment but she's not sure because through all this time, she for some reason doesn't know Dash.

 

[Bonhomme]

Smoke is coming out of my ears from processing all of this.

If your enjoyment of the situation outweighs your frustration at it, open up a bit more (without getting all gushy and chumpish) as Interceptor and Francisco suggest. If they're about equal, distance yourself a bit (or even do both -- open up a bit and distance yourself in terms of availability), and if the lack of intercourse is really bugging you, do as joekerr suggests... though I've found subtlety and cool-headedness to be consistently most effective.

 

[azanon]

I agree with the suggestions to open up a bit more too. Attraction/desire for sex may be predominately chemial and very little rational, but still, there are a lot of women that simply are going to withold the sex if they either know you're just in it for sex, or suspect it. There are women out there that have made previous, and conscious decisions not to have casual sex if they know for certain that's either all it is, or all its likely to be. If you're actually interested in a LTR someday soon (and it sounds like you are), then I don't personally suggest running a rountine that is going to automatically reject women who dont follow the sex first, relationship later, order of things. Is her wanting to know who she's fvcking such an out-of-the question request?

What's a right approach for you, isn't necessarily the right approach for someone else. If you were a younger (18-24) aspiring DJ who has no intention or desire for a LTR and just wanted the most sex from the most women possible with the least amount of effort, then I'd take joeker's (sp) approach of walking out the door the next time she cuts you off during an attempt and never look back (except take out the reactiveness, and substitute calm matter-of-factness) unless she comes back with a "I was so dumb" routine and wants to show you "just how much she's sorry" .

I'm not so crazy about the "showing less interest"/plate spin approach. I think that will just make this a more lengthy and a continued, no-sex, endeavor. You've already got the message across to her that you're potentially not really very interested in her by your unwillingness to not tell her much about yourself.

 

[Sinistar]

So there's a showdown looming....

In one corner we have Directness: Chat, talk, get answers, push a bit, open up to her, go to her, etc.

and

In the other corner we have Indirectness: withdraw, takeway, aloofness, mystery, spin-lates, let her chase & supplicate.

I have yet to see (observing others & 1st hand) a truly healthy LTR that started with the guy being more direct (in this situation) and basically trading something (up front) for her intimacy. Here's a great litmus test. Do you think this HB would require Brad Pitt or George Clooney or Russel Crowe to open up, share his emotions and unveil the mystery before she goes all the way. Yeah right!

And often the directness approach winds up generating a lot of drama (good for her anyways). There is talking-talking-talking and the exciting crash and burn several month later. At best, the LTR winds up being a AFC "Yes dear" nag fest for years on end. There is however one big plus - the guy gets his answer quicker.

Plus, RT's onto the real deal here. What are the dating/relationship pathologies of both parties. For example, what if we have a serial monogomist on one hand and textbook clutch outcast on the other. That prognosis would be a cinch.

 

[Dash Riprock]

This was what I needed to know. How long was your LTR prior to all of this? If you had a sufficiently long LTR, then went cold turkey for 4 months and are now wrapped up in this woman - after having known her for a year, not just 6 weeks - then you fit the profile of a Serial Monogamist. I'm inclined to agree with WATERTIGER, at 31 she should be beyond the high school reasonings. What's her story? Give us a run down on her background.

More info on The Girl:

-She was married (though I don't know how long--I'll guess 4-6 years) to a guy I know. I actually met him at my gym before I met her. He's more the laid back, long hair, web designer, weed-loving (I’m guessing) pink floyd, beatles type. Their divorce was final around February of this year. He said everything is cool and they're still friends. I also heard "he fell out of love with her" form someone who doesn't know I'm dating her.

-ME: I'm a big fan of the UFC, MMA, Brian Urlacher, rabid Chicago Bears fan, Evander Holyfield, I body build, employ the c&f approach generously to all my women, love humor, Dobermans, have my own business (I'm a motivational speaker and writer) and listen to Motley Crue, Alice in Chains, and Dokken. So her ex and I are about polar opposites.

-She *thinks* I'm dating other people, to which I either make a joke or just laugh--she's actually the only one I'm with right now but I've never told her that ( it’s not oneitis, I just don’t want to expend the $$ & energy of maintaining “a rotation” right now as I have in the past)

-I don't think she has a strong support group here as can happen when marriages split up. I don't think she's dated much, if at all, since her divorce just by what she says, her actions, etc. She has very low “female game” because she's been out of the dating game for so long (if she's 31 been married for a few years, dated the guy for maybe 1-2 years before, that takes her to her early 20's before she was actually "in the game." Most guys in their early 20's ARE total AFCs.

-She is very hot, in shape, smart (a dissertation away from her PhD) and kind of a Granola type if you know what that is, so you can see where I would consider her for a LTR.

-The sex between us is almost primal and animalistic; a lot of wrestling, intense passion, deep kissing, I playfully pin her down, she willingly goes down, rip her clothes off and she mine -- you get the drift. I really don’t think physical attraction is the issue, I think it's actually our #1 asset right now.

I really don't think I'm a serial monogamist. I'm 42, never been married (choice—never even asked anyone), and date a lot for fun--usually girls 6-12 years younger because I've taken really good care of myself physically and have good genetics in that I look only 34-35--I get that all the time. My last LTR was for 9 mos or so, I dumped her because she fell into the "sister trap."

As for the "OK, I outta here” approach if we don't bang the next sex session--I'm thinking more the "Siphon Approach" by maybe just making conversation and then working in a little bit more about me like my family and perhaps even a little vulnerability like saying how tough it is to see my dog grow old and struggle. This way I'm not spilling my guts like some AFC, but I've opened the door a bit.

Hope that helps.

This is a great case study--I think a lot of dudes run into this situation. Awesome we have some HEAVY DJ FIREPOWER working on this one…

 

[Vulpine]

I'm no "expert", but...

Rollo Tomassi: "If you aren't ƒucking her, you are her girlfriend."

Victory Unlimited: "Anything you can't walk away from is your master and you are its slave."


That being said, I would like to add that this no putting out business is a HUGE red flag. She basically is putting herself in the "undateable" trash can.

See, that "sex as a weapon" stuff is a big no-no with me. I tend to believe that if this chick is playing games with sex now, she'll withold sex for silly reasons later.

She is upset with you? No sex.
She wants something from you? No sex.
You don't agree with her? No sex.
Etcetera, etcetera.

Sex is not a bargaining tool. To me, sex is part of a relationship. If we are together, we are ƒucking. If she doesn't want to ƒuck, she doesn't want a relationship.

The actions say "I don't want a relationship" in this case. Maybe she has a girlfriend, her abortion has to heal up, her boyfriend said "do whatever you want, just no intercourse", who knows and who cares. She doesn't want to ƒuck and she's getting hers anyway: you go down on her. Who needs d¡ck when you can get off without? Just like who needs vag sex when you can get BJ's all the time?

She isn't commiting to the relationship. The hows and whys are irrelevant, she isn't sealing the deal. For now, you are pandering, playing into her game/frame/playing by her rules just for the sake of intercourse. Her sex as a bargaining chip is working. You posted, thus you are irritated. The bottom line is that you are tollerating behavior you don't like. Why? For sex?

I'd rather jerk off than to be driven crazy.

You want a puzzle? Get a damn Rubik's cube and get the ƒuck on with your life.

This chick is a hobby that drives you crazy. Get another hobby. All the negativity isn't good for you. And, it doesn't get more negative than "No."

If you had other options, this one option wouldn't be an issue, she'd be a non-option.

 

[Nighthawk]

What sex? She's not 'yours' if she's holding out. I ask again if she's ever made you come.

And as for mystery, it's all well and good but there's nothing wrong with connecting, especially after 6 weeks/dates. She may feel that as long as you are playing the challenge game, so will she.

 

[Dash Riprock]

I ask again if she's ever made you come.

Yes.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

You are making way too many excuses for her behavior. I can't wait 'till LMS gets a hold of this one.

She, at 31, like most attractive women, has had a one night stand. So the "there needs to be an emotional connection before sex" card doesn't stand its ground.

You keep talking about how high her interest level is. She knows you want her and she is using her one form of manipulation to control you. You've already put her on a pedestal and treating her as one of the "But this one is special" girls that tend to be experts at controlling men. Her interest is not high enough yet, or anymore. Don't fool yourself into believing it is.

My girl just admited to me that she was ready for me one week before we did it. I actually told her that I could have had her on the first date, she first denied it, but then said I probably could. So she did want to wait, just because of her social conditioning. She also told me, "If a girl stops having sex, or holds out, he will go looking for it somewhere else." Obvious, but true.


Lastly, she probably needs an emotional tampon and you are playing the part very well. She has spun it around to make you feel like the a$shole for wanting to do what is natural, have sex. You are here apologizing for being a sexual man with desires. She doesn't seem to think that you could walk away and she is at risk of loosing you.

As Rollo said, not worth the wait. Plus, if she is using sex as her trump card now, what will happen once you are really involved, if you marry her or get into a LTR?

TAKE HER OFF THE PEDESTAL NOW.

 

[Vulpine]

Lastly, she probably needs an emotional tampon and you are playing the part very well. She has spun it around to make you feel like the a$shole for wanting to do what is natural, have sex. You are here apologizing for being a sexual man with desires. She doesn't seem to think that you could walk away and she is at risk of loosing you.

TAKE HER OFF THE PEDESTAL NOW.

Boom!

There it is!

Well said, Gangster. :cheer:

 

[Gangster Of Love]

No, good call, but we've had "that talk." Plus, I go down on her a lot.

First of all, stop going down on her. What is her motivation for her to give you the puss if she is already getting off. Why would she give up her trump card when everybody is already climaxin'.

What "talk"? If she has herpes or any other std causing virus, she probably doesn't even know she has it. Most people carry it without any symptoms, so they have no idea. You might have it and don't know it. So having you, not a medical professional, unless I'm wrong, going down on her and inspect her is not enough.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

WJH,

I get the feeling the other guys she's been with DO spill their guts or talk a lot and she's not used to someone different. She doesn't know anything about my family (she's never asked)--I actually think she's afraid to ask about certain things for whatever reason. I really get the sense she wants me to talk about how "I feel" about her and I -- what ALL women want, right? So far, I've kept things to, "You're fun, I had fun with you," I gave her her first compliment last night--I told her she had a big heart. She got totally flushed.

She's obviosuly not used to dating someone with DJ skills and has been out of the game a while herself, so she projects her feelings quite a bit--I think she expects the same in return.

Don't be fooled. If she's 31, and hot, or relatively attractive, she has dealt with all kinds of men and knows how to control and manipulate men to get what she wants. She is tooling you with the sex, or lack thereof, on this one. What are you saying? The guys she's been with got to have sex with her because they didn't use "DJ" tactics?

 

[Paradox]

I’m 42, she’s 31.

Dash,

Please make sure your age shows up on your profile. This forum is reserved for Mature men 25 and over.

If the Mods don't see your age on your profile your posts may be moved to the discussion forum.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

I'd keep the door open to an LTR with her; but told her last night "I go slow." She'd be a good LTR catch.

...then she responded "Great, I go even slower. I want to wait until 9 months of a LTR to reward you with sex!."

 

[Vulpine]

Dash,

Please make sure your age shows up on your profile. This forum is reserved for Mature men 25 and over.

If the Mods don't see your age on your profile your posts may be moved to the discussion forum.

Thanks for the help.

:crackup:


:crackup:

Ouch!