RANT: guy "friends" - ARRRGGH!!

[SoCalMike]

I can't stand this guy "friends" bullsh!t chicks pull.

I believe the reasons women have guy friends is:

1)She craves male attention/ego boosts. (probably the biggest factor)

2)It's a way of keeping "options open" just in case.

3)They are fvck buddies/dildos when she's horny and between relationships.

I'm posting this because I just had a bad experience with a girl who had major guy friend syndrome (GFS). To be honest, I think she's a dirty slvt, but I don't have 100% proof of this.

In any case, I need to freakin RANT A BIT!

Here's the deal:

She's hot, 30, and fun to hang out with. Good convo, smart, all around pleasant personality when it's just us. We went out on one date.

First we played pool, and then went to a bar, where she was touchy feely with three or so guy "friends" who are regulars there. Bad sign. But there was alcohol flowing, and she later apologized for giving them so much attention because she had not seen them in so long, they go way back, yada yada So I let it slide.

Over the next 2 days after the date, things started happening that implied feelings were coming into play... e.g. affectionate terms being used (honey, sweetie), long conversations about personal things, txts like "I can't stop thinking of you", etc.

So, I figured maybe now that she's starting to get involved with someone (me), she would chill on the guy "friend" thing. Nope.

We had plans for our second date, scheduled for 10pm tonight. We were going to a late night sushi place. I assumed, as would anyone, that I would be picking her up from her home.

I txt her at 9pm saying I was home, getting ready, and was going to be on time. She texts back saying "I'm at <bar we went to first date> with <guy friend from bar on first date> and some other people (a married couple they both know). I figured I'd go here while I was waiting for you"

WHAT??

I explained to her why this doesn't work for me. It's primal instinct for a man not to want other men around his women excessively. And when we have a date planned, that should be her evening, NOT ANYTHING ELSE.

So I next'd her for this reason. Of course she protested quite a bit, said I didn't even give her a chance, that she was loyal, blah blah.

On behalf of guys everywhere, I'd like to send a big FVCK YOU to all women who pull this kind of crap! :cuss:

 

[window]

Interesting how on the first date you ended up at the same bar she wants you to pick her up from again. Did she suggest the bar the first time ? I know I wouldn't feel comfortable picking her up from the bar especially when it leaves you wide open...you walk in and suddenly all her mates want you to stay for one beer and before you know it your classy lady is saying how about we leave the sushi for another night and stay here !! note she probably had this planned from the morning.

But I think to soon to next her as she is an untrained filly. If nothing was pre arranged re the pick up then perhaps give her another chance as it was a very late date and you can't expect her to sit around all night. But next time be specific about the time and place you'll pick her up from and if she tries to change plans at the last minute then say no thanks..

If the bar was on the way then probably not a big deal if you hadn't decided on a place to meet her. But if it was definately out of the way then she is testing you by abusing your time. In which case you should have said look lets leave it for another night the bar is too far out of my way and I'm not a taxi...then give her another chance and see if she's a quick learner.

 

[SoCalMike]

Interesting how on the first date you ended up at the same bar she wants you to pick her up from again. Did she suggest the bar the first time ?

Yes, she did. She's probably a bar ho.

I know I wouldn't feel comfortable picking her up from the bar especially when it leaves you wide open...you walk in and suddenly all her mates want you to stay for one beer and before you know it your classy lady is saying how about we leave the sushi for another night and stay here !! note she probably had this planned from the morning.

Exactly.

But I think to soon to next her as she is an untrained filly. If nothing was pre arranged re the pick up then perhaps give her another chance as it was a very late date and you can't expect her to sit around all night.

Someone else can "train" her. She's 30 for God's sake. If she were 21 I'd be more understanding.

"sit around all night?" Dude, 10pm is all night? Common.

But next time be specific about the time and place you'll pick her up from

F that. A 30 year old should know a date means I pick you up from your place. Duh. And if you want to go to the bar, at least call or txt saying "hey, i'm gonna hit the bar while I'm waiting" and preferably come back home before the time I pick you up.

What am I suppossed to do, follow her home to her place so she can drop her car off, then take her out? Or take her to her car at the end of the date and follow her home? NO.

The bar is NOT on the way to the sushi place at all either.

No second chance for this chick. All the signs are there, she's nothing but trouble.

 

[window]

On another note, you've only had one date with this girl so I think it is a bit much to expect her not to have any guy friends at that stage.

 

[window]

if the bar was out of the way and she asked you to pick her up from there ? then yes she is yanking your chain. So did you pick her up from her place the first time or did you have to get the address off her for the second time...

 

[SoCalMike]

if the bar was out of the way and she asked you to pick her up from there ? then yes she is yanking your chain. So did you pick her up from her place the first time or did you have to get the address off her for the second time...

The bar is out of the way. How is that relavent anyway?

A respectable chick would wait at home, watch TV, curl her hair, whatever the fvck... not hit the bar with her guy friend before the date.

I don't expect no guy friends, I just expect them not to be such a big part of my girls life. Eventually they must all be gone for the relationship to progress.

I forgot to mention that she also mentioned twice about doing other things with other guy friends besides this one, in just the 2 days since our first date.

 

[window]

if the bar was on the way and you hadn't made a pre arranged place to meet or pick her up from (which you should have as this is what happens when you dont) then to pick her up out the front for a second date I cannot see the problem (provided it is on the way and not an inconvenience to you). But if the bar is out of the way then she is just seeing how far she can abuse your time and space.

As for mentioning other guys on a first date etc. To me it demonstates low class and a general lack of interest. Then agian she could be testing to see how uptight you are as a man. Generally for a first or second date woman are going to pull all types of crap to see what you're made of. I think the best thing is to ignore the girls filters and smoke screens and take them out anyway to see what's underneath.

Remember chicks have about 10+ guys trying to call them up and take them out on any given day so they have to apply the filters.

I bet a 50 when you called her at 9 you didn't have her address.

 

[Hooligan Harry]

I often read that women have 10 or so guys trying to phone them and take them out on these forums. They have one, maybe two TOPS that are doing this. Most of the time there is zero interest on her side otherwise she would have acted. They are not being hounded half as much as they wish they were and you think they are.

Women dont have as many options as you think they do. Sure, they can get laid quite easily but we all know that even an ugly ***** is going to be selective in who she sleeps with. Just like we battle to find quality women they battle to find quality men too.

With regards to SolCals post? I dont think there is a right and wrong approach to this. Bottom line it comes down to your own outlook. What may be a deal breaker for you may not be for someone else. I am in his corner on this one though. One has to ask themselves how much trouble a girl is worth. If she is displaying these tendencies already it would not be a woman I would consider for anything other then a quick lay. If you are out for sex only SolCal then there is a little more leeway that can be given. Then her character means **** all at the end of the day. If you actually like the bird and know that sleeping with her will lead to an emotional attachment then your actions were correct IMO.

Personally, the "guy friends" thing irritates the **** out of me. Im not jealous, I just know what they are up to. She knows what they are up to. Its all one big charade that I have no time for. Im too busy a guy to play that stupid game. I also have no desire to hang out with her guy friends who are invariably the kind of pussies I will have little time for.

 

[jophil28]

Hey SoCal, she was attempting to manipulate you into joining her fan club.
She is not relationship material, much less "second dateable"..
She did what she did because she has done that shyte in the past and gotten away with it.

Good for you in nexting her. It may be the first time that any guy did that to her.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Over the next 2 days after the date, things started happening that implied feelings were coming into play...

Why exactly where you chatting, text and otherwise after only your first date?

So, I figured maybe now that she's starting to get involved with someone (me), she would chill on the guy "friend" thing. Nope.

Or maybe she figured that since you were so accessable after only one date you were slipping into another "guy friend" category

We had plans for our second date, scheduled for 10pm tonight. We were going to a late night sushi place. I assumed, as would anyone, that I would be picking her up from her home.

Maybe she assumed, as might anyone, that since you didn't tell her exactly where you were picking her up, you would let her know beforehand.

I txt her at 9pm saying I was home, getting ready, and was going to be on time. She texts back saying ...

Why on earth did you text her an hour before you were supposed to pick her up?

On behalf of guys everywhere, I'd like to send a big FVCK YOU to all women who pull this kind of crap!

She responded to your behavior and actions. Had you gone on the first date, finished it, not contacted her again until you set up the second date, and only with a time and place you were picking her up, NONE of this would have happened.

Woman can only display as much quality BACK to you as you display TO her with your actions and behaviors.

 

[Nutz]

Hey SoCal, she was attempting to manipulate you into joining her fan club.
She is not relationship material, much less "second dateable"..
She did what she did because she has done that shyte in the past and gotten away with it.

Good for you in nexting her. It may be the first time that any guy did that to her.

Agreed! She's not worth the hassle.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

From the Art of Seduction:

4-APPEAR TO BE AN OBJECT OF DESIRE- CREATE TRIANGLES

Few are drawn to the person whom others avoid or neglect; people gather around those who have already attracted interest. We want what other people want. To draw your victims closer and make them hungry to possess you, you must create an aura of desirability-of being wanted and courted by many. It will become a point of vanity for them to be the preferred object of your attention, to win you away from a crowd of admirers. Manufacture the illusion of popularity by surrounding yourself with members of the opposite sex-friends, former lovers, present suitors. Create triangles that stimulate rivalry and raise your value. Build a reputation that precedes you: if many have succumbed to your charms, there must be a reason.

MIKE, this is the dynamic being used on you (and most likely a few others in her bullpen). I know it's frustrating, but see it for what it is and counter it. You'll have to really evaluate if she's worth the effort, and I know more than a few guys are just going to say next her for the disrespect, but understand this is a social tactic with the latent purpose of ensuring herself the broadest pool of men to select from. You can (and maybe should) opt out of course, or you can play her game better than she does. If she's got a bullpen of other guys warming up you might think - ƒuck it, I'll cut my loses - but you don't have anything to lose by experimenting. Turn her game around on her.

The necessary element for creating a triangle is the requisite of qualifying for that person's attentions. They maintain the frame by stoking that competition anxiety with ambiguity, but again, see that for what it is - a strategy to hold interest through qualification. Social Proof is based on this principle - be seen with hot women (irrespective of their true interest) and hot women will be predisposed to you. You need to call her bluff and turn her back to qualifying for you. You must become the PRIZE.

 

[classy broadside]

We all know that some women are like this -- attention wh0res, etc. Other posters have made all the relevant and correct analyses. My 2 cents: Look up, not down. Don't be mad. Be happy you've eliminated her, and didn't waste time thereafter. Be happy that you're wise enough to do so, and not like the other chumps she's got dangling in her net.

 

[decades]

next. you just met her. If a woman wants to be around other men this early it's DOA. If a woman is Truly Hot for you, the last thing on her mind is hanging out with her "friends". She wants intimacy. This woman does not want intimacy with you. She has no interest in you, just the attention you can bring. Lucky you found this out right away. Don't play the game of competing with her other AFCs for the morsels and crumbs this woman gives out to people. You did good man.

 

[Colossus]

SoCal-

I think what she did was a little rude. But in all fairness, you didnt explicitly plan to pick her up at home; even though that is the accepted implication with a dinner-type date. You could have gone ahead with it and just told her to meet you there--NO WAY should you have followed her and met her at her favorite pub--but you nexted preemptively which I think was a good call. Ive dated a couple of chicks who presented the same "cheers" type scenario, so I probably would have dropped her as well.

Which reminds me of another red flag in my book: women who try to get you to go on 'dates' with their friends present. Dates are ONE-ON-ONE for the first few times. If you set up a date to meet at a lounge or bar and she is there with a few pals...NEXT. Sorry, not only is that awkward for you, but she is reeling you into her frame and it just shows a lack of confidence and intimate interest on her part. Yeah sure you could try to turn it around with good social charisma, loads of C+F and maybe even a little social proof of your own, but in my opinion that's a waste of your time. You set a date with HER, not her friends. If she tries to get you to come hang out with her group of friends within the first few dates (really anytime before you have sex), hand her as$ a free ticket to NEXTWAY Airlines. You should be her focus first; then later on, after some qualification, you can mingle with her friends and do the social thing.

 

[Sinistar]

So I next'd her for this reason. Of course she protested quite a bit, said I didn't even give her a chance, that she was loyal, blah blah.

...actually I found this part the most interesting - the rest could be a page right out of a standard AW reference manual.

I would think a HSE woman of more typical values and upbringing would not react this way. She'd probably just think to herself, it's only been one date and I have other options and would basically become indifferent. Instead she protested, talked about not getting a chance and - offered up that she had been loyal LOL

As everyone else knows, her intentions were never a LTR (at least not a healthy one). AW's are the natural masters of "triangles" lots and lots and lots of triangles.

Clearly this type of woman doesn't do it for you. Next time you come across one like this I'd bet $10 you don't bother with a second date.

Another thought. Lets say you ran into her while spinning at least two more interesting attractive plates. Your approach to her would have been more indifferent wouldn't it have? That indifference would have helped you play it many different positive ways for you (ie draw her to another bar you prefer, meet up with another gal instead, just drop it and move on w/o explaining, etc).

 

[squirrels]

We had plans for our second date, scheduled for 10pm tonight. We were going to a late night sushi place. I assumed, as would anyone, that I would be picking her up from her home.

I txt her at 9pm saying I was home, getting ready, and was going to be on time. She texts back saying "I'm at <bar we went to first date> with <guy friend from bar on first date> and some other people (a married couple they both know). I figured I'd go here while I was waiting for you"

WHAT??

I explained to her why this doesn't work for me. It's primal instinct for a man not to want other men around his women excessively. And when we have a date planned, that should be her evening, NOT ANYTHING ELSE.

So I next'd her for this reason. Of course she protested quite a bit, said I didn't even give her a chance, that she was loyal, blah blah.

On behalf of guys everywhere, I'd like to send a big FVCK YOU to all women who pull this kind of crap! :cuss:

Second!

If she wants to go hanging around bars with her guy friends on nights I'm NOT around, that's one thing. That's her time, she's free to do whatever she wants and, unless we're BF/GF, she can f*ck them too for all I care.

But if I make plans with a woman, those are OUR plans, not HERS. She has NO RIGHT to just change the location or invite along other people.

It honestly may be that she's not into these guys at ALL. But what I DO believe is that she IS utterly unfeminine for spending her spare time drinking with "the guys". Girls like that...bar-hopping is a lifestyle for them, not just a recreational activity. It's something they will CONTINUE to do even when they're in a serious relationship, which is why their relationships will continue to fail.

I've fallen into this trap a few times. Usually they try to "sneak it in" on you. Like you arrive at the place you're supposed to meet her and she texts you that she's bringing a friend, so it's too late for you to turn around. Or you're on your way out to dinner and she says something like, "I hope you don't mind, my friends are out at the bar across the street and I kinda promised I'd take my girl home". I've always tried to make the best of the situation...maybe from now on that should be an immediate date-ender.

I've never had what I regard as a "high-quality" girl pull something like this on me. If there are other parties to the "date", they should be disclosed when the date is being planned. If they appear by surprise, it's OK to shoot the sh!t for a little while, but then tell them you'll get back to them and return your attention to the date. That's what I'd do if it were MY friends, and I'd expect the same from the girl.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

If you ever want to prove to a woman that YOU know beyond a shadow of a doubt that her "guy" friends are really just dikks in glass cases-----just ask her this:

"Hey HOTBABE, if you offered your guy friend "X" some pusssy, would he take it?"

And when you see her get a far away look in her eyes, when you see her stutter, or when you see her hesitate and NOT look you in the eye as she says "No, of course he wouldn't do something like that----we're JUST friends."-------THEN you can be 99% sure that she is either lying to YOU, lying to HERSELF, or both.

So ARMOR the Fukk up, boys.

Keep your mutherfukkin' HEARTS well-protected out here in this war, soldiers-------ESPECIALLY in the opening salvos (the beginning stages of getting to know the women you are dating).


March on.

 

[SoCalMike]

thanks

I appreciate the responses, even the ones who disagree with what I did.

Rollo's post is thought provoking. He is probably right, it's a game to make herself appear as though she's the prize. However, for better or worse, I don't play these games. Mainly because right now, I don't need to, I have other options. I have 3 other dates lined up next week, and a f-buddy which I can call up in times of need.

To address some other points - there are certain girls who you just want to bang. Totally agree. But this one has a great personality (aside from this issue) and we have a lot in common. So, naturally I started having feelings for her and did not just want to fvck. Otherwise I would not have even posted this.

I have also come to find out more about her. Apparently her parents own a bar in a different city, and she worked at that bar for several years. She was also a regular at current bar (where we went on date) but only returning after a long hiatus. What caused the hiatus I don't know, probably some guy drama.

So yes, she's a bar chick. I didn't see it at first, because I didn't meet her at a bar, but I guess it should have been obvious. Bar chick + guy friends = trouble. I stand by my actions on this one.

 

[NewMan]

I'd like to chime in.

To me, this behaviour would have been disrespectful if you had been dating a while. But quite frankly, she owes you nothing at this stage. You went out once, and the world doesn't revolve around you.

Perhaps she just didn't want you to know where she lived?

Perhaps she had made plans to meet someone?

who knows.

I would have picked her up and then depending on her actions led from there.

e.g. if she had wanted to stay at bar, i would have left. But if you pull up, call her and she comes out wanting to leave and proceed with the date - all is good.

if this becomes a long term issue - i.e. she's at the bar every night of the week, your response is valid - but after 1 date, it's to close to call. I don't think giving her the benefit of the doubt this one time (since you never talked about where you were picking her up from) is out of line.