Question for drzaius, Titman, Ulrick, & co

[johnny_dangerously]

Gentlemen,

This question may sound like a flame-bait, but please be assured that I am 100% sincere & really want to hear what you have to say.

It seems like there are 3 philosophical camps in the DJ forum (excluding the newbies):

1. The Lazarus Longs, who believe that a real man should be able to fight a war & make love to a woman & compose a sonnet & fix a tractor, that sort of thing.

2. The Pimps (Players, Mack Daddies)--mostly young men who will grow out of that phase.

3. The Monsters. That's how I think of you guys.

I don't know what you're like in real life, but on-line, it sounds like you have all concluded that sex is a purely physical action no more significant than taking a dump, a woman is a pile of meat with a pu$$y, and any human interaction with a woman is worthless. Maybe I am mistaken, but this is the impression I get from your posts. You seem like you have black hearts made of stainless steel that feel nothing.

The thing is, you are all over 25, so this is not something you will grow out of--on the contrary, it is what you have grown into. What you have become disturbs & fascinates me at the same time. I want to know: what made you this way? Is this the logical end-result of exposing yourself to too much bad behavior from too many bad women? What does this mean for our future? Because it seems like everyone who keeps at this long enough either becomes a Lazarus Long & gets married, or becomes a Monster. Do you guys picture doing this into your 50's and 60's? How does it work?

Thanks for your time,
-J.D.

 

[gixxer]

Well, I guess I'm a "monster" too. Just the effect of too many nasty, lying, manipulative women. I didn't start out that way but as I became more experienced and more aware I began to see what is REALLY going on out there. I'd say that 99% of women are using, lying, greedy, lazy pieces of $hit who want nothing but to sit around and relax on a beach all day, go out and dine and party at night and go on exotic vacations at some dumba$$ guy's expense. And they don't even have the decency to remain faithful to that dumb guy. Women = Users

Now I'm the guy that doesn't spend $0.01 on a girl and gets all the sex he wants while some poor sap is out wining and dining her and "impressing" her with flowers and jewelry and getting nothing for it. Now I'M the guy that women blow off Mr Nice Guy for and can't get enough of. And what's more interesting is that the worse you treat them the more they chase you........

To answer your question in more of an intellectual way, I'll say that yes, my heart is completely sealed off and closed but I do hold some tiny bit of hope that one day I'll meet that one in a million woman that I can trust and finally open up to. I have faith that this WILL happen one day, but I also know what a long shot it is. To illustrate, the one woman I had feelings for and opened up to IN 3 YEARS went right to abusing, psycho b!tch AFTER I started opening up. When I was treating her indifferently and being sort of a jerk to her she was uncontrolably in love with me. Once I reciprocated, the dynamic INSTANTLY changed and she started being abusive and treating me like she held all the power. So there is that component too - women are creating us in many respects. Sort of like how the Joker made Batman and then Batman made Joker in the movie..........

Some of my bitterness also comes from not having complete mastery of women to the point that I can handle them perfectly and take things in the direction I want 100% of the time. David D calls where I am now the conscious incompetent stage in his mastery series. I'm actually between conscious incompetent and conscious competent right now but I have a long way to go for mastery. I assume that as I approach mastery my feelings will change as I have more control over my dealings with women. Sort of how David D has changed from his very early work (DYD ebook) to his mastery series and become more mellow and "loving" I think it's a path for most of us and true mastery means eventually becoming benevolent and accepting.

The path of the warrior in martial arts is the same. The early days are full of brutal trainning, injuries, anger, violence, war and hartred. These give way to love and benevolence as the sword is replaced by the poets pen and the warrior grows into the sage old man who is a devout man of peace. Notice too that those who don't progress to this higher level end up in that violent hell relm forever and never live happy productive lives.

To close, I'll say that the image I have of myself is growing into a wealthy, succesful, wise and healthy guy in his 50s - a james bond/george clooney type - who has his pick of women and eventually marries a gorgeous 20 something woman who I KNOW I can trust do to my past 20+ years of experience with women. Then I'll do the family thing. But right now, at 33 with a career to build, I want nothing but lots of sex with no strings attached.

gixx

 

[johnny_dangerously]

Hey Gixx, thanks for the thought-provoking response (BTW, you & I are almost the same age, FWIW).

I'd say that 99% of women are using, lying, greedy, lazy pieces of $hit who want nothing but to sit around and relax on a beach all day, go out and dine and party at night and go on exotic vacations at some dumba$$ guy's expense.

Ye gods...Excuse me while I go cut my pecker off, put it in a jar of formaldehyde & mail it to the smithsonian

Let me talk for a moment about where I am going with this, which I did not adequately explain in my initial post. Every military mission needs a military abjective. What is the objective of our mission? That's easy: most of us are ex-AFC's who came here seeking transformation. But transformation into what? A Monster? That doesn't seem like the path to happiness.

I am attracted to the romantic idea of the Lazarus Long (see Uncle Hub's speech in the film Secondhand Lions about what it means to be a man). But I can't help noticing that the men who DO go that route end up choosing monogamy precisely because 99% of women are as you describe, which lends some creedence to the views of our friends the Monsters.

Right about now I need to define a goal that I can live with.

 

[gixxer]

For me the goal is to build myself and become complete in and of myself. Be successful, rich, happy and healthy. Women will ALWAYS come and go but you have to live with yourself forever.

I truly believe that when you get your life completely together the women thing takes care of itself. Check out my post "The Zen of Indifference........" if you want more.

gixx

 

[SAYNO]

Great Post

Gixxer thats how it happened for me, but the cross-over to that stage it seems can be a long and daunting one.

My personal opinion is that not enough men have come forward to challenge the evils that lurk in soceity (hint: its not about "women" either).

IMHO, men have a reponsibilty to help and teach other men how to be real men and stand up to the social injustices that they see everyday.

Women banned together and help one another and made changes, why cant more men help each other?


Sayno

 

[TooColdUlrick]

i get all the intellectual stimulation that need/want in the nature of the work that i do. but when one comes around, who's also a hottie...it sparks my interest for sure. i'm not looking for "companionship" or a "best friend". but when one comes around with that potential, great.

when i get home, i turn into a pumpkin head. the last thing i want is a chick who's going to give me hassles. i'm talking about "extra" hassles--i can deal with the normal stuff.

i've fukked more than 100 chicks. before you call me a hor, that's over a 20 year period, with several LTR's in between. i've probably "dated" 300+.

flat out...at least 95% of all women are completely worthless. less than worthless--they'll drag you down. it's worse with chicks my age (the Wyldfire's of the world). no thanks, it's out of the question.

but for this dude, finding a hot babe, who's smart (college degree is a requirement for anything LTR or near it), mid-twenties, has her sh!t together, can carry a convo, is enthusiastic, makes me WANT to be a better man...that's what it's all about.

very few of these women are around. very very very few. a chick like this is Gold. probably had about three or four in my lifetime...the LTR's.

i am actually looking to find that chick who can steal me away from bachelorhood. not getting married though...i'm pretty much opposed to it.

thus, one has to put himself in a position to date A LOT of women. i mean A LOT! within that, you have your obvious ONS, pump n dump... who gives a sh1t. then you come across quality chicks. for the latter, i'm not so anxious to get into their panties. in fact, i'll hold off for as long as possible...which works for quality ones.

women ARE replaceable. but i fall into none of the three categories you've mentioned. it's too hard to get a good read on people from boards such as this.

 

[Wyldfire]

Women who become bitter towards men because they made the mistake of going for *******s and jerks are frequently criticized on this forum. They are held accountable by all here for their poor choices in men.

We must all ask ourselves why men who become bitter towards women because they chose bad women should be granted immunity for the FACT that they made poor choices in women.

Anyone, male or female, who makes a habit of going after members of the opposite sex who hurt them and screw them over NEEDS to take a long, hard look at why they are attracted to *******s and biotches.

The "Monsters" on this forum are riddled with emotional baggage and are just as tainted as those women who repeatedly go for men who treat them badly.

When my ex abused me, I didn't leave immediately. Therefore, I allowed myself to be treated badly. I bear responsibility for the part I played in my own misfortune. That attitude makes me a Survivor, not a victim. The "Monsters" on this forum are perpetual victims rather than survivors because they blame everyone but themselves for their failures and misfortunes. Sorry...but that doesn't cut the mustard.

If a woman is at fault for choosing partners who treat her badly, then so are men at fault for choosing partners who treat him badly.

Blaming others is the easy way out...but looking within yourself and examining your own flaws and faults is the smart way to go...then you grow into a happy, healthy person who is able to take responsibility for their own choices and actions.

"Monsters" cannot become what this site considers a "DJ" because they are NOT truly working on themselves. They aren't growing as human beings or allowing themselves any true happiness in life. That shows clearly on this forum in the way these guys think, talk and react. If you pay close attention you will see them piss their negativity all over any positive thread posted by someone who is either happy or looking to resolve issues they have with women. The only thing these guys are interested in talking about is how evil women are and how much of a victim the men are.

Since when was it "DJ" to be a victim? Isn't being a "DJ" about rising above anything that would limit your success in life and making your life better? Pray tell me...how is embracing victimhood going to help you grow or make your life better? The answer to that is quite simple...it WON'T.

 

[SAYNO]

Great Post!

One of the main reasons men choose bad women is because they have been taught that women are; "sugar and spice and everything nice". It is a hard revelation for most men to find out the other way around- that woman, knowingly and willingly practice deceit.

Don't get me wrong either; I do not pander to the whole "women are evil" ideology (that’s too simplistic). However I do believe that women can be very deceitful as such (and appear to be evil) but most of this happens in their quest or journey in pursuit of the Alpha male and female "biology".

Now, the Alpha male is a rare specimen indeed, and not so willing to share the "tricks" of his trade leaving the average male in a most precarious position:

On one hand he witness's a daily on-slaught of attacks, and belittlement of character all for simply being a male! He is often told that he is too aggressive, given riddlin to calm down, (after all he could grow up to be a rapist, serial killer, or heaven forbid- forget to pay his child support for a child that may not even be his).

On the other hand, he is told that women are special and deserve to be treated more kindly, because MEN have- (all through out history held them down). Women listen to this same spill and buy into it and grow up expecting to be treated like princesses.

Since feminism is built on a house of lies it eventually collapses and when men finally wake up they are mad as hell!!!!
Men are fed feminists lies all their live's through the media, from women and even their own fathers!

Men are taught all their lives that good women exist and that if he is a good provider, he will be able to find a good decent women who will be a good mother for his children, a women who will be monogamous, kind, giving, loving and submissive.

Women are taught to be independent of men, to be weary of men, have their own lives apart and separate from men. Indeed
Women train and teach each other through internships of types. I.E. How to be a hoe "101", draining a man dry in 30 days, have your cake and eat it too etc. The school system is like-wise setup solely it seems to benefit mostly women, sadly, to the detriment of good men!

Notice that no such "masculinity" training exists for men. Men are taught to be "metrosexuals" That’s why you have forms likes this. Since now days even men are 'feminists' or total AFC's there isn't much recourse for a man, but to wing it alone.

The government sponsor’s and indeed benefits from this since women are mass consumers and pretty much control not only the economy but reproduction as well:

A women can unilaterally, get pregnant behind a mans back, say that its his child and make his ass pay child support or get pregnant (without him knowing about it) and get an abortion or put the child up for adoption-all without the mans consent.

Since its widely held that all men are dogs only out to satisfy their own base desires the system imposes a cruel, injustice on the good men who have done nothing wrong when "princes" decided that she wanted to go off and find herself' by snatching his kids away from him and often times getting him imprisoned on the way out through false charges.

Since we have established that men unwittingly and unknowingly buy into the feminist propaganda, the question now becomes NOT why do men date bad women and require immunity, but why don't women after being taught that men are such dogs and misogynistic still chase after the *******s, furthermore why aren't these women being held accountable for their actions??????


Sayno'

 

[gixxer]

Great post SAYNO! :cheer:

Gixx

 

[johnny_dangerously]

Wyldfire & SAYNO, you are launching this thread in a direction that is not relevant to the original point. Please don't do that! Let's keep it on track! This is a serious issue. Wyldfire, you know damn well that AFC men don't "choose" *anything*, they don't even know what the hell is going on. They may have plenty of crimes, yes, but you're trying to make them equivalent & they are not. SAYNO, please let's not get into the (mis)education of the American Male right now!

Here is what we are attempting to decide: what is the goal? What do we wish to become? To that end:

1. Is it true that (a) getting laid constantly means exposing yourself to a lot of bad women, and (b) each bad woman costs you a piece of your own humanity, ultimately making you a bad man? I am beginning to suspect that is the case.

2. Is it perhaps better to be a "serial monogamist" & only associate with good people, few as they may be?

-- OR --

3. Are the Lazarus Longs living up to some non-existent fairy-tale ideal? Are they blind to the irony of their role as knights-errant of a faith from which they have already been excommunicated?

4. Is it true that 99% of women are worthless?! That figure seems a bit high. We all know that, to some extent, we create our own reality. I can't help wondering if the Monster's modus operandi is helping to push that figure so high, at least in the Monster's own life.

These are heavy issues, folks. PLEASE let's not start another pi$$ing contest like in that damn older man / younger woman thread!

 

[gixxer]

JD have you heard David Ds Mastery Series? All the answers to your questions are in that series. It really changed me and my outlook on life in general. Yeah, I know it's like $400 but it was worth every penny........

I'll post more on your last question tomorrow - my hands is tired!

gixx

 

[johnny_dangerously]

I've heard of it but never heard anybody talk about it. Fair enough re. the tired hand, I'm a hacker, I can relate BTW, I did read your "Zen of Indifference" thread & liked it a lot. Maybe more threads like that would elevate the level of discourse.

Side note: I've been averaging 2.5 dates/week for the past several weeks, but like a good little Doc Love student I've booked them all for weekdays, with the result that I'm here screwing around on the forum w/nothing to do on a Sat. night Ah well, I don't like bars anyway.

 

[gixxer]

I started off with Doc Love too. That was a great start for me but David D took me to the next level and beyond. The System is some great stuff but it's very passive. DD is the real deal.

From the Mastery Series I got to really get a feel for what an alpha male really is and how women fit into the life of a true alpha. Since listening to that series (I got the CD version and listen to it over and over on my way to work) I've made some moves in my career, started a serious program of self improvement, I'm getting psyched up for going back to grad school next week, etc, etc...... Notice I'm not really mentioning women too much? The underlying point is that a true alpha just is what he is and goes about his own life and is successful at what he wants to be successful at. HE DOESN'T CHASE WOMEN!

There's this guy Brent on DDs Advanced Series. He doesn't call women, he doesn't approach and he doesn't date. He only has physical relationships with women and he gets laid like a rock star! Granted, this guy is really advanced but the point is that he is completely indifferent to women. I've actually taken him as my role model........

DDs overall message is that if you work on yourself and build a life for yourself that you totally enjoy and are happy in the women will follow. Granted, many of us need to practice now so we know what to do with all that pvssy when it does start showing up and we need to approach now to get our needs met and get some dates but the point is that in the long run investing in yourself will get you everything you want....

gixx

 

[iveyleeger]

Men are taught all their lives that good women exist and that if he is a good provider, he will be able to find a good decent women who will be a good mother for his children, a women who will be monogamous, kind, giving, loving and submissive.

This is an excellent point. The guy you call Lazarus Long believes this. He will do all these things for his woman. And what will she do for him?

In America, nothing.

 

[Wyldfire]

Everything you guys are saying about women can also be said about men.

This is what is so inherently wrong with this radical masculinist mentality that is running rampant on this forum.

There are bad women and there are bad men. Good men get misled and good women get misled. Both men and women tend to be stupid when it comes to choosing partners. And to whoever said "AFC's don't have choices"...I say BS...EVERYONE has choices.

It's easy to blame everyone else for what goes wrong with your life. But at some point you need to grow up and recognize that if you keep having the same problems then perhaps the problem is with yourself and your choices. Not a damn one of you are going to reach the level of success and happiness you want to reach until you start taking responsibility for your mistakes and holding yourself accountable. No more excuses, pointing fingers or whining. Fix your own flaws, recognize your unhealthy patterns and change them. If you all do those things then you won't have nearly so much to biotch about.

Oh...and "feminism" only has so much control over your damn lives because you are too focused on blaming someone or something for your failures and misfortunes instead of doing the necessary soul searching and self betterment that is REQUIRED for anyone who wants to succeed in life.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by iveyleeger
This is an excellent point. The guy you call Lazarus Long believes this. He will do all these things for his woman. And what will she do for him?

In America, nothing.

She will only do nothing if he doesn't take care in his choices in women. It's the same thing with women who choose lousy men. People get what they look for.

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
People get what they look for.

amen@@@

 

[ketostix]

Wyldfire you don't know jack sh!t about what men are experiencing. Lot's of men have no choice through no fault of their own. Just STFU you don't know what you're talking about, your advice won't get a guy anywhere. Your attitude and ignorance of the subject pisses me off. You can call this flaming if you want, but it's not. It's impossible to debate with you all the points you bring up that I disagree with. You're preaching to us and I find what you're saying offensive. I'm convinced now that I should just ignore everything you say.

 

[ketostix]

Regarding the thread topic..I guess the guys within those three categorize you identified, JD, have varying motives even if they follow a similar script or act. I mean realizing that being "yourself", AFC, or a nice guy hasn't worked, you adoted a new game plan. Basically adopting behavior that women respond too.

So if we act like Monsters it doesn't mean we truely are Monsters, or will become one. Some of us are interested in a meaningful relationship with one quality woman. But we have to act in a way that attracts women (which is not necessarily how we want to act) and we want to date women in the interim til we find the right one. I don't know if this added anything to the discussion. This topic is some deep stuff.

 

[johnny_dangerously]

*sigh*... Wyldfire, you are so far off topic you are not even within shouting distance. I ask you again, *please* stop trying to hijack this thread. I don't want to talk about "radical feminism" or "radical masculinism," I want to resolve my dilemma. Nothing has "gone wrong" in my life. Your method of discourse is a textbook study in non-sequitur, ad hominem, assuming the anticedent, and all the other faulty logic that Aristotle declared bad form in ancient greece. Please just stop it. It is plain you haven't really understood a single thing I've said. I am not "whining," I am not "blaming," I am trying to get a question answered and you are hindering me. It is not my purpose right now to overcome the Monsters, it is my purpose to UNDERSTAND them. I asked them a question & I want to hear what they have to say. Then you come barging in here like a bull in a china shop shouting & screaming & trying to hog attention. You are not helping, you are a hindrance & a distraction.

Now, onto something relevant:

Gixx said:

DDs overall message is that if you work on yourself and build a life for yourself that you totally enjoy and are happy in the women will follow.

This is not exactly true. I spent many years building my current life, which is exactly the kind of life I want, but I am here to tell you this will not make one iota of difference if you continue behaving incorrectly. That's what we're trying to pin down here: the "correct" way to behave.

Then Ketostix said:

So if we act like Monsters it doesn't mean we truely are Monsters, or will become one.

I'm not so sure: that's precisely what I'm concerned about. What is it we preach on this forum? What is it we try to pound into the AFC's heads? As you act, so shall you become. It's been said on this forum at least 100 times.

Just talking about this is clarifying a lot of things in my mind. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that The Way of the Monster is not my Way. In Secondhand Lions, Uncle Hub says something to the effect of: "A man believes that Good always triumphs over Evil, that power and influence don't matter, that the only important things are honor and courage...Not because these things are true. It doesn't matter whether they're true. These are the things worth believing."

Perhaps not practical, but your evaluation of something as "practical" depends on what you wish to practice. I guess that makes me a Lazarus Long.