Quagmire911 Lifting Journal

[Quagmire911]

Thursday

Quite a s***** day today, probably to do with drinking 4-5 times over the last week. I have had my fun though, and will cut it back to once a week and only 6-7 units at most. I am going to take a deload next week and get a bit of physio done. Got whey/creatine/cissus through today so I am set for making a good go off it over the next few months. Anyway, here it is:

Deadlift :cuss: Attempted 150kg sumo and failed. Then did conventional 150kgx1x1. I could probably have done 155-160 conventional. Form is not good though and needs to be fixed. I don't know what the f*** has happened. I did 172.5kgx1 sumo in January and now I can't do 150kg? Something is f****** up with my legs, something in that area. My back stayed arch the whole time, but my hips shot up a lot faster than the shoulders. I am thinking maybe it is hips. Will post up a video to show-I am basically stiff legging it. Will be seeking some advice on this...I will also post the sumo video. Deadlifting has been weak ever since I did those rack deads, I think that was a big mistake. I now have a big weakpoint from the floor...

S.SLDL (light) 85kgx10x10-Quite easy, although on the second set my back started to feel it towards the end.

Good mornings 60kgx10x10-Ouch. Will post a video for critique. Felt good, just ****ty weight.

Dorian rows 82.5kgx8x8x8-Was pretty wiped. Didn't bother with chins after.

Grip training: Crushing: Captains of crush No.2-Right hand 1x3 1x2 1x1 (PR)- I think I just touched them for a 3rd although I can't be sure. Still a PR regardless.

Left hand x0 (assisted)x5x5-Couldn't close it with the left today. Did some assisted using my right hand to help a bit.

Door grabx2-For pinch grip.

Well today was pretty depressing apart from the grip training. I think I will give up weights and just train my grip, it is the only thing that actually responds to training I suppose I have to be honest and say the alcohol has f**** things up this week, but it is not the reason for my deadlift tanking 50lbs or so, everything else has at least gone up a bit. I can't actually believe bench has seen the biggest gains. I think I will post up my box squat video too, I don't think my form looks great on it, too much rocking or something. Anyway, that is all for today. Will be deloading and taking it easy next week...

Quagmire

PS-Videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS21d29F5S8 -Sumo dead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=804_OAqueKQ -Deadlift

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrG7rnNVNRQ -Good mornings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqrAXaCQlJc Last weeks box squats, poor hip drive?

 

[The Bat]

Change of routine is in order?

I hear ya about the alcohol thing. I usually plan to either NOT workout the next day or workout LATER in the day (like around evening) if I went out for drinks the night before. And I usually have to down a few to even get buzzed due to the irish-dock worker tolerance I've built up. Alcohol in the system just drains all my energy away the next day.

 

[Quagmire911]

Monday

Deload. Sigh:

Pulldown abs 20kgx10 25kgx10 30kgx10-Worked out how to do them. Well actually I saw someone else doing them (shock!) and got him to show me his method.

Bench-Worked up to 1x80kg-Left shoulder felt iffy. Was affecting form I think.

Braced One arm OH press-15kg 2x8

CG reverse grip bench 40kg 2x8-Used quite a light weight as it is my first time properly doing them and it was a deload. Still felt it a bit in my tri's.

DB bench 20kg 2x8-I was having a hard time stabilizing this which is pretty sad. Again, I think it was my shoulders.

That was it for the upper stuff. Now onto more impotant things. Well I was sick of my deadlift last week as can be seen above. I decided to post the video and have Mark Rippetoe take a look at it. Turns out I wasn't doing it correctly. Hips were to low and shoulders weren't over the bar. The "jerk" motion at the start was my body getting into the correct position to pull. Whilst it looks almost like I stiff leg it, this is correct for my biomechanics. Rippetoe says he only figured out the shoulder thing 8 months ago or so, and that he can't find it in any weightlifting literature. Indeed Westside advocate something about keeping the shoulders behind the bar, which is confusing-because you can't. So I did some form work today and here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wfLGWfIJVw -This was 100kgx1. I thought this looked pretty on the money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aVLrvGyLlA -This was 140kgx1. I thought this was better than last week, but my hips still started maybe a touch low as there is maybe small jerk before I lift. I will be getting Rippetoe to check these two though. But the 100kg above looks good to me, and this wasn't far off. Might be alright though.

I have also been having a lot of issues with the squat for a long time as those who read this will know. So I am overhauling my squat. I switched to low bar today which I actually managed to get to work with 200+ on my back. Before it would be too painful. I seemed quite a bit tighter which was great and my back stayed rigid. Still needs work but I reckon it was better than last week. I am also looking down to get hip drive. I am basing it on Mark Rippetoe literature. I will need to get starting strength 2nd edition when I can afford it. More to come on this squat business, it is a work in progress...


Went to the physio on Friday and he said my back was in pretty good condition but was just a little tight. He loosened it up a bit and got rid of some noughts. He said I can continue benching as long as my shoulders don't hurt, but what is happening is the ligaments or tendons are scraping of the bone as everything is a little tight. I told him I was doing shoulder dislocations and he said they were good. So hopefully the problem will be alright soon. Indeed I feel my right shoulder is getting there, but now my left seems to be having more trouble-perhaps because it is being used more and the right isn't compensating? Who knows. I will see how things go. If I don't bench for a month or two and do OH press for a while, Poliquin says my bench won't plummet, and it would benefit things in the long run anyway. So I will see how I get on.

I am now on about 4g of cissus a day and my right knee that twinges occasionally I didn't feel at all today which is good. I can't take the creatine as it is too disgusting so I am waiting till I can put £30 towards a capping kit, can't afford it this week though. I have also been going for salt baths to aid in recovery which feel great, very relaxing and I recommend it. Just been using herbal salts but will be trying Epsom salts when I can.

Well that is it for today. Maybe went a touch heavy on the deads but it is alright. I will go lighter on Thursday and my CNS will still have some time off. Anyway, until next time...

Quagmire

PS-Kudos to DRUM, you are actually meant to look slightly down on the deadlift. Something like 5-6 feet infront of you. Same with the squat.

 

[Drum&Bass]

no problem dude !! I hurt my neck twice deadlifting, until I corrected where to look. I noticed your getting stronger and putting up more weight, so I was just looking out for you, making sure you don't make the mistakes I did ! keep up the progress.

 

[chinwaggler]

erm looking at your vids it looks like it's your back or your forearms for the sumo deadlift.

 

[Quagmire911]

erm looking at your vids it looks like it's your back or your forearms for the sumo deadlift.

The main issue with the sumo (and indeed conventional) was that I wasn't in the correct starting position with the scapula's over the bar. This is why my hips "jerk" up at the start, so my body can get into the proper position to pull.

As far as weak points are concerned I can't be sure what they are until I actually start deadlifting with proper form again in training (form is only being fixed as this is written). I don't know how long this has been happening, most likely quite some time as I haven't hit a deadlift PR in months. And on the weakness note, it definitely isn't my forearms, they are good for 180kg+...

 

[Quagmire911]

Thursday

I was originally goint to cut intensity, but I felt pretty good so I just cut the volume down. Had a pretty good day, details below:

Deadlift-155kgx1 165kgx1 (363lbs)(PR?)-F*** yes. Failed with 160kg last week. Just shows what incorrect form does to you. Video below. I think I nearly had it form wise this week, but my hips were still a little low as they come down a bit when I look in the mirror before I start and then come up as I iniatiate the lift. So my scapula's weren't in the correct position and the the bar rolls forward a touch. I am sure I did this the other day, so I will makesure not to next time. This may net me another 5-10lbs when I cut this out. I think this may be a conventional PR. If I remember correctley I have done 165kg twice before and 172.5kg once, all sumo. It will be interesting when I next sumo to see what happens, as I know it relies more heavily on a good starting position, and I would think it should be better as it would put my back in a better position to pull (more vertical). Pretty pleased with this anyway. With form getting fixed, it should hopefully only be a matter of time before I get 400lbs+. I just need to make the above weight my 3RM. I think it is safe to say the floor is my weakness, but I need to get a perfect pull before I confirm it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LudNxqpFHjg

Good mornings 62.5kgx12-Getting this up should drive up my deadlift. Spinal erectors need to be strong as my back is pretty close to horizontal when I deadlift.

Dorian rows 85kgx8-These felt pretty good. Not sure if I am not upright enough or not though. Will take videos next time.

Leg press 160kgx8-Did these for the quads as I didn't feel they had been given enough attention.

Captains of crush No.2 R-1x3 L-1x0 No.1 (inverted) R-1x4 L 1x4-Don't think I got a great hold on it with my right hand which is why these are equal.

Door grabx1

Well that was all for today. Really pleased with the deadlift, big difference from last week. I may do some halting deadlifts which is where you lift from the floor to just below the knee I believe. I will check this. Will be making a few changes to the routine to suit my weaknesses. Anyway that is all for today, until next time...

Quagmire

EDIT-Checked the record book and my best deads to date have been 155kgx4 (I remembeer it was crappy form on the last two reps, lost my arch), and 160kgx2. So this is the most weight I have pulled conventional.

 

[mrRuckus]

You should try some power cleans.

 

[I-tallionStallion]

F#CK YEAH! Nice DL!

Form looked GOOd but man that looked like a tough rep haha

Hey, I'm getting closer to crushing the No.2. But you are still ahead of me, maybe you should change your name to this guy's - http://www.wrestling101.com/101/imageview.php?image=833

That is until I overcome you haha

 

[Quagmire911]

MrRuckus: Power cleans are another option I will have to consider. I believe it was Bill Starr who was fond of them for his deadlift.

Stallion: Thanks man. But I am sorry, gripping is my baby . I didn't think it was going to come off the floor but somehow it did.

 

[MrS]

You lift with all back on your deadlift.
You'll stop progressing at some point soon.
Learn to deadlift properly.
Which is to lift backwards, not up.
Start the lift from the ground with a squat then bring your hips forward and legs straighten pushing into the ground, while bringing the bar backwards.

 

[Quagmire911]

You lift with all back on your deadlift.
You'll stop progressing at some point soon.
Learn to deadlift properly.
Which is to lift backwards, not up.
Start the lift from the ground with a squat then bring your hips forward and legs straighten pushing into the ground, while bringing the bar backwards.

:nono:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=147274

 

[MrS]

Don't wag your finger at me, Dave Tate > ****ing Crossfit for deadlifting my friend.
Rippetoe is excellent, but if you notice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqxim0YXr90
What he's saying here and how she deadlifts, and what you're doing is not the same. You will plateau indefinitely. Your form is pretty crap, mate.
This isn't a flame post, you're putting up decent enough numbers!
Constructive criticism. Your deadlift is all back, your hips are too high, your legs are nearly straight, and you have no leg drive. Mine used to be nearly as bad but I changed it and it's a completely different lift.

 

[Drum&Bass]

MrS, Pulling back makes no sense, the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.

You statement about plateauing is false !! All world class powerlifters use their back when deadlifting, what Dave Draper does for deadlifting might work for dave draper (body building purposes) but in the grand scheme of things it is NOT optimal, pulling back is an outdated technique. LEG DRIVE FOR A DEADLIFT IS USELESS !!! it is not a squat !!!!

You should lift with your back, and drive in with your hips.

by the way MrS how much weight are you able to pull how can you speak so confidently ?

 

[I-tallionStallion]

You will plateau indefinitely.

I don't agree with this statement. I can't how many times I've watched guys with really $hitty form picking up tons of weight on youtube and at my gym. And Quags form is decent.

Hey Quag, check out this dude DLing...fvcking beast - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0KDnaHCOQ0

He has a squat video where he tears his quads, watch it...it will make you never want to squat ever again lol

 

[Quagmire911]

I trust Rippetoe over Tate for deadlift specifics.

The reason I don't deadlift the way she does is because I am built differently. When I have my scapula's over the bar my back is quite near to horizontal, which will naturally make the back more involved.

I was actually trying to do it the way you said, lowering the hips and using my legs. I haven't hit a PR in months. I posted my form for Rippetoe to look at and he said I had to raise my hips:

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1898

I appreciate your concern, but I am a back puller. I know it isn't perfect yet, I say this above. It is a work in progress. Remember as well that that was a max attempt which will bring out weaknesses, and I look to be weak from the floor.

Ps-This is my last post today, post limit has been reached.

And Stallion, I am a big fan of Matt K. I have seen that video and his squat one before. I believe he has recovered now. You should check out his DB row videos if you haven't already, they are great.

 

[MrS]

You trust Rippetoe over Tate?
How much has Westside Barbell pulled over the years and what has Rippetoe?
Yeah I thought so.
If you're a fan of Kroc, deadlift like he does. He drops his ass down, and oh look, leg drive!

Being a back puller isn't cool. If you really want to progress and lift some serious weight, then you will learn how to apply proper leg drive. Lifting with your back will get you so far, and then you will stop progressing and wonder why and work your lower back like crazy and stop getting gains.

To ItallianStallion - they are genetically disposed to be able to lift weight from the ground, it's that simple. If they try to progress, they too will get to a certain point.

And Drum&Bass - your replies to other threads concerning squats and deadlifts doesn't show ANY real-life knowledge, it sounds as though you haven't trained with what you're talking about, you posted high numbers and said a load, like you said you did 20 x 365 on squats, then said they're parallel, above parallel. So they're not proper squats. Jesse Marunde did 20x400 in his day. You say you deadlift 420. Well done, solid lift. But don't advocate bad form to this guy, especially as a personal trainer. How long have you been training?

To Quagmire, I used to deadlift the same. I then changed and started deadlifting correctly. Numbers dropped, but the potential weight I can lift now is oh so much more.

The way you lift you put no hips, or legs, into it, it's all lower back and some hamstrings/glutes. You're just limiting yourself.

It's no shame to work on proper form and let the numbers slide for a while.

EDIT: Just saw your post to Rippetoe.
He's saying what I mean. You are BEHIND the bar. You're setting yourself up to lift the bar with your back upwards in a straight line, you're not supposed to do that. You're not balancing all that weight on your lower back "keeping the back angle constant". You're lifting it with your legs and your hips and your lower back stays the same, he means don't round it. You took it too literally.

 

[Drum&Bass]

MrS I have no clue what your trying to say, but if you agree with the way Rippetoe teaches deadlifting and Quagmire agrees with the way Rippetoe teaches and I agree with the way Rippetoe teaches deadlifting what are you getting so bent out of shape about ??

p.s. for your information Powerlifting squats are to parallel and ARE INDEED proper squats.

Other names for a powerlifting squat is a sumo squat or a wide stance squat and you want to know what they all have in common ??? It is impossible to go as deep as a regular barbell back squat also known as an olympic squat, do you know why ??? Because your hamstrings make it impossible do go deep when your legs are in a wide stance. Hope this clears up any confusion.

p.p.s whose advocating bad advice ?? Your the one unable to communicate your point properly

 

[MrS]

I communicated exactly what I wanted to say.

What you're saying about "sumo squats" is a cop-out.
You are advocating back lifting with the deadlifting, that it's not a squat, not to use the legs.

Anyway, do what you will, I tried and failed to improve the fellow's training.

I getting bent our of shape because you are not doing what Rippetoe says.
If you post that video for him, he will also agree that your lift is pretty bad.

That is all.

 

[Quagmire911]

Hmmm. I think you may have a point MrS...

With the 150kg last week I thought I was stiff legging it. That is when I posted the video to Rippetoe, as you can see I say that to him. He said that I wasn't in the correct starting position, which I also wasn't-which made things worse.

You are right though, after looking at it in depth and comparing it with lifts at 100kg, I am losing leg drive at the higher weight. If you look at this video, I think you will find it on the money:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wfLGWfIJVw&feature=user

I actually have a selection of videos ranging up to 165kg now, and it becomes more pronounced after 140kg. Because that was a max effort it is more noticeable. I tried to reason with myself that it wasn't happening because of what Rippetoe said, but it is.

Now lets clear something up. The deadlift isn't a squat, however the legs are involved to a large extent.

Now to examine why this is happening. The glutes and hamstrings anchor the hips down at the start of the deadlift as the quads extend the knees. It seems to me that my glutes and hamstrings aren't holding my hips down-thus the stiff legging. It may not be a strength issue per se, maybe just lack of glute activation. So I will start with some of that. I am still sure my hammies are a weaklink, and the gm's are tasked with that one.

I may perform deads from a deficit as a max effort lift as well. I am interested MrS, what did you do to correct this happening to you?

And thank you for being stubborn Although I agree with Drum, pulling in a straight line-not back.